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Is 'soul sleep' doctrinal?

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#1
AlanLamb0986

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Soul sleep- the idea that all those who die sleep until the time of Judgment, when we will be awakened and sent to our eternal destinations. These are copy and paste articles from carm.org and gotquestions.org, but I don't think I believe in this doctrine. 
 
“Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52;1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43;2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18;20:13-14). As can be clearly seen inLuke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 
Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul "sleeps" until the time of the future resurrection.  In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious.  The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine.  But the Jehovah's Witnesses teach annihilation.  This means that after death a person ceases to exist.  At the future resurrection they maintain that the soul is made again.  Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual.  The Seventh-day Adventists teach at the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.

The primary verses used to support soul sleep are found in Ecclesiastes:

  • Eccl. 9:5,  For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten."
  • Eccl. 12:7,  "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary, which says at the opening of the book, "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 3 What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun?" (Eccl. 1:1-3).  The writer is telling us how things are from the human perspective, from "under the sun."  He is not telling us doctrinal statements about whether or not the soul continues after death.  Besides, it's a mistake to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament.  It is the New Testament that sheds light on the Old Testament.
In the New Testament we see Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."  Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord.  Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive.  There was no soul sleep with them.
Therefore, the doctrine of soul sleep is incorrect.  The soul continues on after death.  The wicked face the judgment of God, and the Christians will dwell in His presence.
Both groups are in error about soul sleep.



#2
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Soul sleep is not biblical no.



#3
kwikphilly

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Blessings Eveyone!

       Welcome to Worthy Alan.....to be honest I think I have a little different take on this subject-LOL   I have read dozens of verses of Scripture that say clearly the dead,know not.......but then there are other Scriptures to imply that when a person dies they are in the Lords presence....honestly,I believe that because God & the Heavenlies are not bound by space or time that this is why we have difficulty in really understanding clearly what happens at the time our bodies die.....

        So I do believe both & see no contradiction ,if you know what I mean?As Jesus said we cannot even understand the things of this world how could we possibly understand Heavenly things?

        This used to drive me crazy about 30 yrs ago but it long since has not because I find peace in knowing that whether I sleep for a little while or not it really will not matter because I will awaken into the Presence of my Beloved Lord & Savior Christ Jesus!Praise & Glory to God!

                                                                                                         With love,in Christ-Kwik



#4
AlanLamb0986

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Blessings Eveyone!

       Welcome to Worthy Alan.....to be honest I think I have a little different take on this subject-LOL   I have read dozens of verses of Scripture that say clearly the dead,know not.......but then there are other Scriptures to imply that when a person dies they are in the Lords presence....honestly,I believe that because God & the Heavenlies are not bound by space or time that this is why we have difficulty in really understanding clearly what happens at the time our bodies die.....

        So I do believe both & see no contradiction ,if you know what I mean?As Jesus said we cannot even understand the things of this world how could we possibly understand Heavenly things?

        This used to drive me crazy about 30 yrs ago but it long since has not because I find peace in knowing that whether I sleep for a little while or not it really will not matter because I will awaken into the Presence of my Beloved Lord & Savior Christ Jesus!Praise & Glory to God!

                                                                                                         With love,in Christ-Kwik

Wow, I've never thought about the possibility that it may be both correct and incorrect based purely on our concept of linear time. That's a cool answer :) And you said that it wouldn't matter if you slept for a little while, or went immediately to Heaven, but technically you'd go immediately to Heaven either way- at least from your perspective. If you aren't conscious during soul sleep, you have no concept of time. So between death and the Resurrection it would appear that no time had passed at all ;) 



#5
kwikphilly

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Blessings Alan

     I see you do see what I mean!   Exactly,Amen..........God is awesome,all the Glory to Him!

                                                                                                          With much love-Kwik



#6
kwikphilly

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Blessings Alan

      Also,since you are so lovely to reason together with I thought I would share this revelation I had many years ago....which was also such a blessing ,giving much comfort & peace on this matter,And I have gotten much flack from "Bible Police" but I do not seek their approval anyway,just love them & pray for them

       As I said,this used to drive me nuts 30 some odd years ago & I was studying some Greek text,which has no punctuation marks....and I came upon  .....".I tell you,this day you will be with me in paradise" & then I was shown"I tell you this day,you will be with me in paradise"....You see?LOL   God is amazing!And whenever anyone gets ruffled by this I just say they will have to take it up with the many scribes & translators of King James....not me!

       God bless you,soon we will no longer know in part.......Halleluliah!

                                                                                                                         With love,in Christ-Kwik



#7
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I have read dozens of verses of Scripture that say clearly the dead,know not.......but then there are other Scriptures to imply that when a person dies they are in the Lords presence..

 

What scriptures are you referring too (dozens), in regards to soul sleep. We need not take scripture out of context. Blessings.



#8
kwikphilly

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Blessings DRS

     Here we go again....here is a few:   Eccl 9:5,1Thess 4:14,Psalms 115:17,Psalms 104:29,Psalms 39:13,Job 14:2,Job 7:21,Isaiah 38:18,Acts 13:36,John 11:11,Daniel 12:2

       As I said,the Scriptures imply both and this has been discussed many times before.....I only replied this time because I did like Brother Alans OP..................God bless you,there are many other Scriptures that refer to "death".....a good study Bible will give you many more.......

                                                                                                        With love-Kwik



#9
FresnoJoe

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Soul

 

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8

 

And

 

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27

 

Body

 

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

 

Soul

 

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude 1:14-15

 

And

 

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Revelation 19:11-14

 

Body

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Revelation 20:4-5



#10
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Blessings DRS

     Here we go again....here is a few:   Eccl 9:5,1Thess 4:14,Psalms 115:17,Psalms 104:29,Psalms 39:13,Job 14:2,Job 7:21,Isaiah 38:18,Acts 13:36,John 11:11,Daniel 12:2

       As I said,the Scriptures imply both and this has been discussed many times before.....I only replied this time because I did like Brother Alans OP..................God bless you,there are many other Scriptures that refer to "death".....a good study Bible will give you many more.......

                                                                                                        With love-Kwik

 

1. Eccl 9:5 is talking about nonbelievers (the dead know nothing)

2. 1 Thess 4:14 is not talking about souls of believers in the grave. these, both their souls and bodies, are united to Christ, and are his care and charge; and which union remains in death, and by virtue of it the bodies of the saints will be raised at the last day: so that there may be the strongest assurance, that such will God bring with him; either God the Father will bring them with his Son, or Jehovah the Son will bring them with himself; he will raise them from the dead, and unite them to their souls, or spirits, he will bring with him; http://biblehub.com/...onians/4-14.htm

3. Psalms 115:17 is not talking about soul sleep. The souls of departed saints can and do praise the Lord: these die not with their bodies, nor sleep in the grave; they go immediately to God and Christ, and are employed in the service of God continually; particularly in praising him, as do the angels with whom they join; they sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb, of providence and grace; especially the song of redeeming love, with which they always praise the Lord: but they cannot praise him with their bodily organs until the resurrection, which by death are rendered useless; they can praise him no more among men on earth, as they have before done; there is no work of this kind in the grave. http://biblehub.com/psalms/115-17.htm 

4. Psalms 39:13 is not talking about soul sleep. It's just simply saying if you're not here, you're there. And be no more; that is, among men in the land of the living; not but that he believed he should exist after death, and should be somewhere, even in heaven, though he should return no more to the place where he was; http://biblehub.com/psalms/39-13.htm 

5. Job 14:2 is simply talking about how the body withers and decays because we live in a fallen world. It has nothing to do with soul sleep.

6. Job 7:21 is simply talking about the condition of sin more so than where the soul goes after death.

7. Isaiah 38:18 is not talking about soul sleep. For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee,.... That is, they that are in the grave, and under the power of death, they cannot celebrate the praises of God with their bodily organs; their souls may praise him in heaven, but they in their bodies cannot till the resurrection morn, or as long as they are under the dominion of the grave; http://biblehub.com/isaiah/38-18.htm 

8. Acts 13:36 is not talking about soul sleep. It is a long sleep; David has been many hundred years, even thousands, in it; and there will be no awaking out of it till Christ comes again: but this is to be understood of the body only, which only is capable of sleeping the sleep of death, and not of the soul, which dies not with the body, nor continues with it in the grave in a state of insensibility and inactivity, but immediately returns to God. http://biblehub.com/acts/13-36.htm 

9. John 11:11 is simply referring to what the rest of these scriptures are saying. When the Bible mentions sleep, it doesn't refer to the soul.

10. Daniel 12:2 is not talking about soul sleep. some to everlasting life; to the enjoyment of everlasting life and happiness with Christ in the world to come; a phrase often used in the New Testament, though never before in the Old; expressive of that felicity and bliss which the saints enjoy in heaven after this life is over, first in the separate state of the soul, and then, at the resurrection, in soul and body, http://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm

 

Delight in the truth and sing his praises. This is good news for us. - DRS81 :mgcheerful:



#11
kwikphilly

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Blessings DRS...

     Sweetheart,whatever makes you happy........God bless you!Whatever gives you peace.......praise the Lord! Whatever gives you comfort...............Glory to God!

      As I said,these trivialities bothered  me well over 30 yrs ago....this is the reason I usually don't respond to these types of posts because (no disrespect intended)I am not asking anyones interpretation,I am at Peace with what the Lord has shown me & I do delight in His timeless Truths....I already posted to Alan that I do believe in much more than what we perceive things to be,if this is something you have difficulty with understanding it is not my intention that you do......

                                                                                                                                  God Bless you.....Kwik



#12
AlanLamb0986

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Blessings Alan

      Also,since you are so lovely to reason together with I thought I would share this revelation I had many years ago....which was also such a blessing ,giving much comfort & peace on this matter,And I have gotten much flack from "Bible Police" but I do not seek their approval anyway,just love them & pray for them

       As I said,this used to drive me nuts 30 some odd years ago & I was studying some Greek text,which has no punctuation marks....and I came upon  .....".I tell you,this day you will be with me in paradise" & then I was shown"I tell you this day,you will be with me in paradise"....You see?LOL   God is amazing!And whenever anyone gets ruffled by this I just say they will have to take it up with the many scribes & translators of King James....not me!

       God bless you,soon we will no longer know in part.......Halleluliah!

                                                                                                                         With love,in Christ-Kwik

Exactly! It's that pesky comma, it's position changes everything! I still don't think it makes a bit of difference. If we go straight to Heaven, awesome. if we sleep, we won't be aware of the passing of time, so it will still appear as if we've been resurrected straight after death. Either way, the moment between death and eternity in Heaven will seem non-existent.



#13
kwikphilly

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Blessings Alan...

     It is really delightful to talk with you,we must always stay in agreement with Gods Word & sometimes seeing things "outside the box" does not conflict with His Word at all,its so refreshing to talk to someone like you who understands that Gods ways are not our ways....there are many more dementions than the one in which we exist,there are Heavenly things we cannot possibly understand......to put God in our little world of space & time is futile!!!!!

     I just know that such great & marvelous mysterious will be revealed to us when we see the Lord as He is in all His glory & we will be like Him in our glorious new bodies.....how exciting,forgive my paraphrasing but I am not one to post quotes....we each can read!

    I don't understand why people have so much doubt when one is given a revelation ,instead they should just pray & seek confirmation!

 I am glad you understand what I am saying,thats what is so much fun!You don't have to think like I do,just understand....,that is un nerving for me at times ,when people just cant understand anothers view?And yes,pretty much like DRS  has posted......I do not think that way & to write out each Scripture UI gave reference to makes no sense to me....I would not have used them if I did not now what they said-lol

   You are welcome to PM me if you wish but I am over this thread.........God bless you Alan!

                                                                                                                      With much love -Kwik



#14
Rustyangel

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Soul sleep is not biblical no.

Correct it is not biblical.  I believe when the Bible says about those who have fallen asleep, I believe it to mean just resting in the Lord, Not a literal sleep.  It would make no sense.  I have a friend who believes that those who have died are just sleeping.  She can't tell me where or anything else.  She believes no one is in Heaven, in fact she believes there is sin in Heaven.  The Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." It does not say to be present with the Lord and asleep.  So DRS is right on with this one.  Not biblical.



#15
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As I said,these trivialities bothered  me well over 30 yrs ago....

 

Do you take comfort in commentaries.Do you like to read them. I always get mixed feelings with this. Blessings. :)



#16
WillfromTexas

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I guess you could call it 'soul sleep' but I feel the Bible says clearly we are unconcious until the rapture of the Church.  I'm certainly no Jehovah's Witness or whatever- my beliefs come straight from the Bible.

 

If you need to believe in ghosts or things such as that then knock yourself out like kwik said.  It's so widely preached and backed up by Hollywood that is hard to hold it against anyone.  In another thread I outlined several scriptures that show clearly the dead return to dust until the resurrection.  Even Peter said plainly that the Patriarch David is with them to this day.

 

The fundamental problem is people have so many wild ideas about mind, body, soul, spirit and so on.  Look at your Bible and show me where somebody is alive without their body.  Even our Lord and Savior has his physical, yet GLORIFIED, body in Heaven.  Even resurrected he showed his disciples that he was flesh and bone- put your finger in the nail prints.

 

A living being is a combination of two things.  The breath of life from God (known as your spirit) and a physical body.  Without both there is no life.  Why would God bother resurrecting our corpses from the grave if they aren't a component to life?

 

When you die the reverse happens- your spirit (breath of life) returns to God and you return to dust.  The breath of life is not 'you' though and doesn't contain your thoughts, feelings, and personality.

 

There will be no sin in Heaven and not sure where somebody would get that crazy idea.  Probably from the Satan being loosed after 1,000 years- but it's wrong.  All sin will be completely sterilized from the entire Universe after the 1,000 years.

 

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  This is true- when you die your next consciuos thought will be of hearing the shout of the Archangel to meet the Lord in the air.

 

It says clearly the dead do NOT praise the Lord...  How much more claer could God be on the issue?  First thing I'd do if it were possible is to PRAISE him but I'll have to wait for the rapture.

 

Search the scriptures for yourself and come to your own conclusions.  I'm OCD and have been a Bible addict since I became a true born again Christian 20+ years ago.  I was raised a Christian in hellfire and brimstone churches and went to Catholic school from 2nd-6th grade.  I get where you are coming from and like I said can't blame anybody for holding onto an immortal soul theology.  Plato was the father of it and it was used through the ages to scare people into Church.

 

Rusty I know you're a good Christian woman and I'm not sure why it doesn't make sense.  Probably has to deal with the 'eternal tormenting' and End Times theologies which is the basis for the entire 'immortal soul' doctrine.  To me it doesn't make sense anyway else...  What kind of Heaven would it be if our loved ones are seeing the troubles we're living through?

 

Here is the reverse of what makes a living soul-

Ecclesiastes 12:7

Then shall the dust [out of which God made man’s body] return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it.

 

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; and they have no more reward [here], for the memory of them is forgotten.
 
Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return.

 

1 Thessalonians 1:10

And [how you] look forward to and await the coming of His Son from heaven, Whom He raised from the dead—Jesus, Who personally rescues and delivers us out of and from the wrath [bringing punishment] which is coming [upon the impenitent] and draws us to Himself [investing us with all the privileges and rewards of the new life in Christ, the Messiah].

 

2 Timothy 4:1

I charge [you] in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom:

 

Isaiah 26:19

Your dead shall live [O Lord]; the bodies of our dead [saints] shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For Your dew [O Lord] is a dew of [sparkling] light [heavenly, supernatural dew]; and the earth shall cast forth the dead [to life again; for on the land of the shades of the dead You will let Your dew fall].

 

1 Corinthians 15:52

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the [sound of the] last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [in Christ] will be raised imperishable (free and immune from decay), and we shall be changed (transformed).

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13

Now also we would not have you ignorant, brethren, about those who fall asleep [in death], that you may not grieve [for them] as the rest do who have no hope [beyond the grave].

 

Acts 2:29

Brethren, it is permitted me to tell you confidently and with freedom concerning the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

 

 

Etc... etc... etc...  I'm about to quote the entire Bible here.  Like I said search the scriptures for yourselves as we're commanded and show yourselves approved.  Don't take my word for it- take God's.

 

As always love all you guys and this isn't a salvational issue- so please don't take it as one/make it one or think I'm piping something unBiblical.  I'm quite fanatical about Bible accuracy.  I'm also not a member of any kind of anything really...  Never been in a cult and don't get me started on Jehovah's Witness- sheesh.  JW run from my house!  My only Church membership right now is Conerstone in San Antonio under John Hagee.  My health has interfered greatly with my Church attendance unfortunately- especially lately.

 

If it isn't in the Bible I don't believe it either- and immortal soul isn't in the Bible.

 



#17
WillfromTexas

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Since I asked the question show me in the Bible where somebody is alive without the body- I've anticipated your answer.

 

Saul used a witch to summon a spirit that was suppose to be Samuel.  Here's a great explanation-

 

Texts in question: 1 Samuel 28:11–15

“Then the woman said, ‘Whom shall I bring up for you?’ And he said, ‘Bring Samuel up for me.’ When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, ‘Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!’ And the king said to her, ‘Do not be afraid. What did you see?’ And the woman said to Saul, ‘I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.’ So he said to her, ‘What is his form?’ And said, ‘An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.’ And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down. Now Samuel said to Saul, ‘Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?’ And Saul answered, ‘I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.’ ”

Proof texts: 1 Samuel 28:6; Deuteronomy 18:10–12

The story of the witch of Endor, found in 1 Samuel 28, tells a sad tale of the results of disobedience toward God. Saul was a powerful spiritual leader. God appointed him to be the first king over Israel. He was a mighty ruler and was filled with the spirit of God.

However, he was also a stubborn man. He was weak in many ways, and he refused to repent when confronted with his sins. Instead, he chose rebellion against the Lord. He steadily lost power over the latter part of his reign and eventually died by his own hand.

By the time he consulted the witch at Endor, he had become a desperate man. God no longer answered his prayers, and he felt increasingly powerless over his enemies, his kingdom, and himself. In desperation, he asked the witch to raise the spirit of the dead prophet Samuel, who had been his counsel while he was alive.

Many people use the story of Saul’s encounter with the spirit summoned by the witch as proof that people continue to live in spiritual form after death. How else, they reason, can Samuel have appeared to Saul during this Old Testament séance?

Truly, if it were the actual spirit of Samuel, we could draw conclusions about death and the afterlife. However, if the spirit was simply impersonating Samuel, then we can draw no real conclusions at all. The Bible is very clear that demons can impersonate other beings, even beings of light, but are not, themselves, deceased human beings (see 2 Corinthians 11:14).

Samuel was a faithful man for his entire life. He was dedicated to the service of God at his birth, and he received direct communications from heaven until his death. Unquestionably, he had God’s favor. If he were alive in spiritual form after death, he would surely be in heaven in the presence of the Lord.

This should help us know the true nature of this spirit. God had chosen to stop communicating with Saul because of his rebellion and refusal to repent. First Samuel 28:6 makes God’s silence plain:

“And when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.”

The Bible plainly states that God refused to speak to Saul through His prophets. Therefore, if Samuel were still alive, he would not have received any word from God for Saul. Yet the story with the witch tells us that the spirit “Samuel” did speak to Saul, and even delivered a prophetic message to him (see 1 Samuel 28:16–19). If God did not speak to Saul through the prophets, yet Samuel delivered a prophetic message anyway, then Samuel would have been in rebellion against God. Why would Samuel, a man who was obedient to God every moment of his life, choose to rebel after his death? It’s simply illogical.

We must also remember that God gave specific instructions to His people against performing witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy, or even associating with people who did these things. The Bible plainly warns in Deuteronomy 18:10–12:

“There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.”

Saul was aware of this instruction. He had evicted all mediums and spiritists from the land of Israel during his reign (1 Samuel 28:3). Therefore, when he consulted the witch at Endor, he was breaking God’s command as well as his own. The spirit that appeared to him could not have been from heaven, because God had specifically forbidden all such forms of communication with the dead.

If the spirit wasn’t Samuel, it could only have been a demon. Demons appearing to people on earth do not tell us anything about life after death.
 



#18
Izzel

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Soul sleep is not biblical no.

Correct it is not biblical.  I believe when the Bible says about those who have fallen asleep, I believe it to mean just resting in the Lord, Not a literal sleep.  It would make no sense.  I have a friend who believes that those who have died are just sleeping.  She can't tell me where or anything else.  She believes no one is in Heaven, in fact she believes there is sin in Heaven.  The Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." It does not say to be present with the Lord and asleep.  So DRS is right on with this one.  Not biblical.

 

 

2 Corinthians 5

King James Version (KJV)

 

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

 

Paul is saying that  our existing mortal bodies or “earthly tent,”  we should not worry if it is destroyed because we have a “building from God” that awaits us. The context does not support the claim that we will be in God’s presence immediately after we die ; rather, Paul simply says we will not have THIS body. He likens our bodies to clothing that we must wear. In verse 4, Paul specifically says he does not want to be unclothed (without a body), but rather further clothed (different body). 

 

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

King James Version (KJV)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


Edited by Izzel, 16 January 2014 - 09:24 PM.


#19
Izzel

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Soul sleep is not biblical no.

Correct it is not biblical.  I believe when the Bible says about those who have fallen asleep, I believe it to mean just resting in the Lord, Not a literal sleep.  It would make no sense.  I have a friend who believes that those who have died are just sleeping.  She can't tell me where or anything else.  She believes no one is in Heaven, in fact she believes there is sin in Heaven.  The Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." It does not say to be present with the Lord and asleep.  So DRS is right on with this one.  Not biblical

what about tje wicked who have died 



#20
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what about tje wicked who have died 

 

Believers and nonbelievers (bodies) are in the graves. However, their souls are either in heaven or hell immediatly after death.






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