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Contradiction? 1-1

* * * * * 1 votes contradiction jesus death

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#1
triptychanimator

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This is the first part of my notes on the crucifixion and how the stories from matthew, mark, luke and john are not contradictory. There are a few other "contradictions" that are not listed here I was just hoping to get some advice on my apologetic notes. I'm a little nervous go easy on me :P

 

Who carried the cross

    This is a very temporally sensitive topic here so let’s observe and see how the timeline in John 19:17 goes. It says in John 19:17-28

“So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

Seems pretty basic jesus carried his carried his cross all the way. PAUSE* This is false scripture doesn’t mention that jesus carried it the entire way rather it is a general summary of where he was heading not what happened on the way there. For example when you get pulled over by a cop you testify about where you’re from and where you’re going. The officer testifies about what transpired in between. So it’s not necessarily contradictory but rather details left out. So it is possible that this isn’t a record of the entire trip in John. Another piece of evidence for this is the actual wording. We need to look at the word “OUT” this word in itself implies leaving a place. The original greek word used which is Exerchomai.(G1831) According to the Greek Lexicon (G1831) the word means


1. to go or come forth of

A. with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs

      1. of those who leave a place of their own accord

      2. of those who are expelled or cast out

Now there are two places mentioned which makes this the correct phrasing which are in John 19:17 and john 19:13.  Lastly we must consider if mark, luke, and matthew say if Simon met them on the way “OUT” or on the way there.  Simon of Cyrene is the one who carried the cross and described as “passing by” (mark 15:21),  “having met” (Having met AS THEY WERE GOING OUT matthew 27:32) and “who was on his way” (luke 23:26)


Conclusion

    I have presented ample evidence to show that this is not a contradiction and that John, matthew, mark, and luke are in agreement. John was simply describing how the trip was planned. Thank you for reading this and please notify me of any errors or additional evidence.


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#2
Donibm

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This is the first part of my notes on the crucifixion and how the stories from matthew, mark, luke and john are not contradictory. There are a few other "contradictions" that are not listed here I was just hoping to get some advice on my apologetic notes. I'm a little nervous go easy on me :P

 

Who carried the cross

    This is a very temporally sensitive topic here so let’s observe and see how the timeline in John 19:17 goes. It says in John 19:17-28

“So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

Seems pretty basic jesus carried his carried his cross all the way. PAUSE* This is false scripture doesn’t mention that jesus carried it the entire way rather it is a general summary of where he was heading not what happened on the way there. For example when you get pulled over by a cop you testify about where you’re from and where you’re going. The officer testifies about what transpired in between. So it’s not necessarily contradictory but rather details left out. So it is possible that this isn’t a record of the entire trip in John. Another piece of evidence for this is the actual wording. We need to look at the word “OUT” this word in itself implies leaving a place. The original greek word used which is Exerchomai.(G1831) According to the Greek Lexicon (G1831) the word means


1. to go or come forth of

A. with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs

      1. of those who leave a place of their own accord

      2. of those who are expelled or cast out

Now there are two places mentioned which makes this the correct phrasing which are in John 19:17 and john 19:13.  Lastly we must consider if mark, luke, and matthew say if Simon met them on the way “OUT” or on the way there.  Simon of Cyrene is the one who carried the cross and described as “passing by” (mark 15:21),  “having met” (Having met AS THEY WERE GOING OUT matthew 27:32) and “who was on his way” (luke 23:26)


Conclusion

    I have presented ample evidence to show that this is not a contradiction and that John, matthew, mark, and luke are in agreement. John was simply describing how the trip was planned. Thank you for reading this and please notify me of any errors or additional evidence.

 

Well, you've both raised AND answered your own thread.  lol  So, ... case closed.

 

 

There are a lot of apparent "Bible Contradictions"

 

... but they only APPEAR to be such.

 

 

Bible Contradictions are the very thing that nearly destroyed my faith some 12-13 years ago ... by a Muslim opponent no less.  I had never heard them.  Never researched them.  I left those conversations completely defeated.  faith shattered.  Ready to throw in the towel, but BLESS GOD!  God gave me just enough sense to say, "OK.  I'm at wits end.  I have NOTHING to stand on.  But i'll hold on to this fragment of a string and just read the Bible."

 

So, I started reading.  Not studying.  Not researching.  Just reading.  and it is amazing how answer after answer after answer were just flooding in!

 

"Wait!  That's not what it says at all!!"

 

"Hang on!  The Greek doesn't mean that either!"

 

"Huh!?  That's not true what he said!"

 

Over and over and over again that was my reaction. 

 

Not only was my faith restored, but I start researching Islam, and learned that Mohamed was suicidal, demon-possessed, and that Islam replaces words to try to make the Bible say what it wants.  This is also the the root of what caused me to desire a Doctorate in Biblical Studies.

 

... a little while after all of this, I ran into that same Muslim.  I had answers for EVERYTHING.  I refuted EVERYTHING.  I even had some ammo of my own, and told him what I learned about Mohamed, showing him the Hadiths and historical accounts.  Guess who was on the running end this time?  ... never heard from him again.  Haven't seen him since.

 

 

So, what am I saying?  I'm saying that THE ANSWERS ARE THERE.  Even if you don't know them, they are there.  So hang on to NOTHING.  God will not leave you ignorant and defenseless.  I learned that.  Now, when I'm presented with things like this, it doesn't even phase me any BECAUSE of my experience in it.

 

 

Here is the simitude.

 

If I tell you:

 

1+1=11

 

You will think that I'm crazy.  Why?  Becasue you KNOW the answer.  But suppose I say that to someone who does not know the answer?  How can they defend it?

 

 

"My people perish for LACK of knowledge" - God


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#3
rjp34652

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This is the first part of my notes on the crucifixion and how the stories from matthew, mark, luke and john are not contradictory. There are a few other "contradictions" that are not listed here I was just hoping to get some advice on my apologetic notes. I'm a little nervous go easy on me :P

 

Who carried the cross

    This is a very temporally sensitive topic here so let’s observe and see how the timeline in John 19:17 goes. It says in John 19:17-28

“So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

Seems pretty basic jesus carried his carried his cross all the way. PAUSE* This is false scripture doesn’t mention that jesus carried it the entire way rather it is a general summary of where he was heading not what happened on the way there. For example when you get pulled over by a cop you testify about where you’re from and where you’re going. The officer testifies about what transpired in between. So it’s not necessarily contradictory but rather details left out. So it is possible that this isn’t a record of the entire trip in John. Another piece of evidence for this is the actual wording. We need to look at the word “OUT” this word in itself implies leaving a place. The original greek word used which is Exerchomai.(G1831) According to the Greek Lexicon (G1831) the word means


1. to go or come forth of

A. with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs

      1. of those who leave a place of their own accord

      2. of those who are expelled or cast out

Now there are two places mentioned which makes this the correct phrasing which are in John 19:17 and john 19:13.  Lastly we must consider if mark, luke, and matthew say if Simon met them on the way “OUT” or on the way there.  Simon of Cyrene is the one who carried the cross and described as “passing by” (mark 15:21),  “having met” (Having met AS THEY WERE GOING OUT matthew 27:32) and “who was on his way” (luke 23:26)


Conclusion

    I have presented ample evidence to show that this is not a contradiction and that John, matthew, mark, and luke are in agreement. John was simply describing how the trip was planned. Thank you for reading this and please notify me of any errors or additional evidence.

 

Well, you've both raised AND answered your own thread.  lol  So, ... case closed.

 

 

There are a lot of apparent "Bible Contradictions"

 

... but they only APPEAR to be such.

 

 

Bible Contradictions are the very thing that nearly destroyed my faith some 12-13 years ago ... by a Muslim opponent no less.  I had never heard them.  Never researched them.  I left those conversations completely defeated.  faith shattered.  Ready to throw in the towel, but BLESS GOD!  God gave me just enough sense to say, "OK.  I'm at wits end.  I have NOTHING to stand on.  But i'll hold on to this fragment of a string and just read the Bible."

 

So, I started reading.  Not studying.  Not researching.  Just reading.  and it is amazing how answer after answer after answer were just flooding in!

 

"Wait!  That's not what it says at all!!"

 

"Hang on!  The Greek doesn't mean that either!"

 

"Huh!?  That's not true what he said!"

 

Over and over and over again that was my reaction. 

 

Not only was my faith restored, but I start researching Islam, and learned that Mohamed was suicidal, demon-possessed, and that Islam replaces words to try to make the Bible say what it wants.  This is also the the root of what caused me to desire a Doctorate in Biblical Studies.

 

... a little while after all of this, I ran into that same Muslim.  I had answers for EVERYTHING.  I refuted EVERYTHING.  I even had some ammo of my own, and told him what I learned about Mohamed, showing him the Hadiths and historical accounts.  Guess who was on the running end this time?  ... never heard from him again.  Haven't seen him since.

 

 

So, what am I saying?  I'm saying that THE ANSWERS ARE THERE.  Even if you don't know them, they are there.  So hang on to NOTHING.  God will not leave you ignorant and defenseless.  I learned that.  Now, when I'm presented with things like this, it doesn't even phase me any BECAUSE of my experience in it.

 

 

Here is the simitude.

 

If I tell you:

 

1+1=11

 

You will think that I'm crazy.  Why?  Becasue you KNOW the answer.  But suppose I say that to someone who does not know the answer?  How can they defend it?

 

 

"My people perish for LACK of knowledge" - God

 

 

Actually 1 + 1 does indeed equal 11........if you're working in the binary mathematical system.

 

And lies about the Bible do indeed work well if you are working in another religious system......in the example cited above the system is Islam.

 

The real question I suppose is 'where do we live'?  Are we living in a world where truth is sought and embraced and respected?

Or do we live in a world that rejects God, Christ, truth and attempts to follow the spirit of discipleship?  

 

The answer, according to the lead post of this thread, is rather obvious I think.

 

The action it inspires is to study to show ourselves approved.    Men still won't accept that act, but that's the game we're playing these days.

 

* One attitude I've discovered is to treat all such aberrations and unjust accusations about the Christian faith and the truth of the Bible as a game.

The enemy does.

Put the attacks on a back shelf of your mind.   Work on mental and spiritual moves to counter the attack....later.

The enemy does the same thing when you offer a good counter argument.

Keep on keeping on with Jesus.

 

Because the enemy keeps on the attack always....wandering through the world like a ravenous lion seeking whom it may devour.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...


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#4
LouF95

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This is the first part of my notes on the crucifixion and how the stories from matthew, mark, luke and john are not contradictory. There are a few other "contradictions" that are not listed here I was just hoping to get some advice on my apologetic notes. I'm a little nervous go easy on me :P

 

Who carried the cross

    This is a very temporally sensitive topic here so let’s observe and see how the timeline in John 19:17 goes. It says in John 19:17-28

“So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

Seems pretty basic jesus carried his carried his cross all the way. PAUSE* This is false scripture doesn’t mention that jesus carried it the entire way rather it is a general summary of where he was heading not what happened on the way there. For example when you get pulled over by a cop you testify about where you’re from and where you’re going. The officer testifies about what transpired in between. So it’s not necessarily contradictory but rather details left out. So it is possible that this isn’t a record of the entire trip in John. Another piece of evidence for this is the actual wording. We need to look at the word “OUT” this word in itself implies leaving a place. The original greek word used which is Exerchomai.(G1831) According to the Greek Lexicon (G1831) the word means


1. to go or come forth of

A. with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs

      1. of those who leave a place of their own accord

      2. of those who are expelled or cast out

Now there are two places mentioned which makes this the correct phrasing which are in John 19:17 and john 19:13.  Lastly we must consider if mark, luke, and matthew say if Simon met them on the way “OUT” or on the way there.  Simon of Cyrene is the one who carried the cross and described as “passing by” (mark 15:21),  “having met” (Having met AS THEY WERE GOING OUT matthew 27:32) and “who was on his way” (luke 23:26)


Conclusion

    I have presented ample evidence to show that this is not a contradiction and that John, matthew, mark, and luke are in agreement. John was simply describing how the trip was planned. Thank you for reading this and please notify me of any errors or additional evidence.

You have put a lot of thought into these possible contradictions.  I think the first question should be what are the gospels?  Are they objective history?  Are they testimonies?  I say they are to a degree history but not testimonies.  Christian faith does not depend on this.  Ancient Jewish writers were less interested in objective history and objective truth.  They were interested in the higher truth.  Their method of conveying this truth was by story telling.  The gospels contain parables by Jesus and parables about Jesus.  It is the concensus of scholars that the Road to Emmaus story, the wedding at Cana and the woman at the well(among others) are parables about Jesus.  Midrashic writing is also evident in the gospels.


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#5
shiloh357

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This is the first part of my notes on the crucifixion and how the stories from matthew, mark, luke and john are not contradictory. There are a few other "contradictions" that are not listed here I was just hoping to get some advice on my apologetic notes. I'm a little nervous go easy on me :P

 

Who carried the cross

    This is a very temporally sensitive topic here so let’s observe and see how the timeline in John 19:17 goes. It says in John 19:17-28

“So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). 18 There they crucified him, and with him two others—one on each side and Jesus in the middle.”

Seems pretty basic jesus carried his carried his cross all the way. PAUSE* This is false scripture doesn’t mention that jesus carried it the entire way rather it is a general summary of where he was heading not what happened on the way there. For example when you get pulled over by a cop you testify about where you’re from and where you’re going. The officer testifies about what transpired in between. So it’s not necessarily contradictory but rather details left out. So it is possible that this isn’t a record of the entire trip in John. Another piece of evidence for this is the actual wording. We need to look at the word “OUT” this word in itself implies leaving a place. The original greek word used which is Exerchomai.(G1831) According to the Greek Lexicon (G1831) the word means


1. to go or come forth of

A. with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs

      1. of those who leave a place of their own accord

      2. of those who are expelled or cast out

Now there are two places mentioned which makes this the correct phrasing which are in John 19:17 and john 19:13.  Lastly we must consider if mark, luke, and matthew say if Simon met them on the way “OUT” or on the way there.  Simon of Cyrene is the one who carried the cross and described as “passing by” (mark 15:21),  “having met” (Having met AS THEY WERE GOING OUT matthew 27:32) and “who was on his way” (luke 23:26)


Conclusion

    I have presented ample evidence to show that this is not a contradiction and that John, matthew, mark, and luke are in agreement. John was simply describing how the trip was planned. Thank you for reading this and please notify me of any errors or additional evidence.

You have put a lot of thought into these possible contradictions.  I think the first question should be what are the gospels?  Are they objective history?  Are they testimonies?  I say they are to a degree history but not testimonies.  Christian faith does not depend on this.  Ancient Jewish writers were less interested in objective history and objective truth.  They were interested in the higher truth.  Their method of conveying this truth was by story telling.  The gospels contain parables by Jesus and parables about Jesus.  It is the concensus of scholars that the Road to Emmaus story, the wedding at Cana and the woman at the well(among others) are parables about Jesus.  Midrashic writing is also evident in the gospels.

 

Once more, complete and utter nonsense.  That is held only by liberal, usually non-Christian Bible scholars who do everything they can to discredit the Gospels of Jesus in order to justify their unbelief.  They usually manage to rope naive "Christians" into their web of lies and misinformation.


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#6
Ozzy

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There are contradictions in the Bible and critics will be happy to point them all out. Most of them are inconsequential, such as did Paul's friends see the light, or did they hear it. One version of the story says they saw the light, while the other says they saw no light but only heard it. But does that change the story that Paul had a vision and converted? Nope.

 

The fact is, we as Christians, know the Bible has mistakes. We know it was written thousands of years ago by many different men, handed down through many generations, gone through many translations, survived through the 4th Century Roman Empire that was struggling for power, money, and politics where they compiled, edited, and cut out many portions of the texts, went through more translations, got put into a poetic form for King James, .... and on and on and on. What we have today is wonderful, but it is no sense a perfect record. It has great history and it has great spiritual stories. The intent of the book is to teach of Christ, bring faith to our hearts, and get the world to repent and live the gospel of Jesus Christ. We are not saved by the book. We cannot hold it in our hands and claim salvation. Even if these stories had been passed down orally, they would have the same intent of building faith and teaching obedience to the laws of God. So, I cringe when I hear fellow Christians applauding the book like it is a perfect record with no flaws. Then they let critics get to them by pointing out some flaws as if God wrote some imperfect, therefore untrue, record. God did not write it, but inspired men did. Unfortunately, it has passed through some pretty uninspired hands. Please, study the history, know how the things we complied, and understand the full context of the record!

 

Though not perfect, it's ability to get people to build faith, repent, and join the kingdom of God is unmatched. Praise be to God for the Bible!


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