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John Hagee On The Glen Beck Show


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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest.  John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015.  He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people.  His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them.  He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally.  Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible? 

 

Just looking at world events, I can see how this could occur, but that doesn't mean it will.  I can't imagine Obama defending Israel against an attempted Russian invasion, and I am not sure what would happen if we did fight along side of Israel?  If it were up to me, I would defend Israel regardless of the consequences, but I am not so sure with this administration.  Of course, I know God would defend his people, even if nobody else comes to their assistance. 

 

Anyway, this is all just speculation for now.  I will be keeping an eye on world events to see if any of this bears out, but I am curious how others at WB feel about this kind of speculation on the part of evangelical ministers.  I am also interested in anyone's knowledge about the historical significance of four consecutive blood moons and it's tie to Israel?

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest. John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015. He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people. His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them. He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally. Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Just looking at world events, I can see how this could occur, but that doesn't mean it will. I can't imagine Obama defending Israel against an attempted Russian invasion, and I am not sure what would happen if we did fight along side of Israel? If it were up to me, I would defend Israel regardless of the consequences, but I am not so sure with this administration. Of course, I know God would defend his people, even if nobody else comes to their assistance.

Anyway, this is all just speculation for now. I will be keeping an eye on world events to see if any of this bears out, but I am curious how others at WB feel about this kind of speculation on the part of evangelical ministers. I am also interested in anyone's knowledge about the historical significance of four consecutive blood moons and it's tie to Israel?

Wow, you have a lot to swallow here so let me try:

You said God will defend his people. Based on your context, I guess you mean Israel, right?

Just a few thoughts if I may- I believe scriptures seem to indicate in Zechariah that two-thirds of all the Jews in Israel will be killed during the great trib. And of course, there didn't seem to be a lot of protection during the Holocaust.

In light of this, why would you say God will defend them when it looks like he allowed in ww2 and will allow in the great trib a lot of Jews to be killed? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I really would like to see a perspective that perhaps I'm missing.

As for the blood moons, I haven't done the research, so I cannot make any definitive statement about that. I would have to see the historical data that supports that first.

Lastly, I've always thought Russia at some point will come down to bully Israel and God himself will save them and wipe Russia out in a miraculous way. I get this from Ezekiel 38-39. I wonder if I'm misapplying those chapters. I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

Again, please don't take my initial questions wrong. I really would like feedback, especially if you think my thinking is misguided.

Thanks,

Spock out

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I posted a multi-hour video in the video forum where Hagee is giving the details of this

 

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest.  John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015.  He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people.  His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them.  He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally.  Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Signs in the heavens are so fascinating. I believe we are moving rapidly towards the end of the age or what's known as Daniel's 70th week (final 7 yrs.). If so, we will be seeing many great signs in the heavens.  However, I don't follow Hagee's version far enough to finish the first segment.  Too much emphasis on the pre-trib rapture.  He also dated Matt. 24:29 as Nisan 1, assuming it's the second coming.  If that's the second coming, then why does he place it in the middle of the blood moons?

 

I do agree that the blood moons have a history of affecting Israel.  The last series brought the six day war and the recapturing of Jerusalem.  I differ with Him as far as involving Iran at this time, for that will be the second war.  I believe we will see the Psalm 83 war first, the total destruction of Damascus, which would be a great time for a peace settlement to be confirmed.  This war could be very close and happen at any time, which is the same thing he says about the rapture.

 

By the way, there was another great sign in the heavens last July, but very little was said about it.  I'll post it in the video thread that other one started.  It's about the re-appearance of the star of David, with a different take on the blood moons.

 

Cheers

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You can no longer post in that thread, so I'll start a new one, so be patient.

 

Cheers

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I have never heard to this blood moon concept before just now.  I will be back in here daily to see what transpires.  Always seeking sound wisdom.

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I posted a multi-hour video in the video forum where Hagee is giving the details of this

 

Thanks Other One.  I will have to check that out. 

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest. John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015. He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people. His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them. He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally. Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Just looking at world events, I can see how this could occur, but that doesn't mean it will. I can't imagine Obama defending Israel against an attempted Russian invasion, and I am not sure what would happen if we did fight along side of Israel? If it were up to me, I would defend Israel regardless of the consequences, but I am not so sure with this administration. Of course, I know God would defend his people, even if nobody else comes to their assistance.

Anyway, this is all just speculation for now. I will be keeping an eye on world events to see if any of this bears out, but I am curious how others at WB feel about this kind of speculation on the part of evangelical ministers. I am also interested in anyone's knowledge about the historical significance of four consecutive blood moons and it's tie to Israel?

Wow, you have a lot to swallow here so let me try:

You said God will defend his people. Based on your context, I guess you mean Israel, right?

Just a few thoughts if I may- I believe scriptures seem to indicate in Zechariah that two-thirds of all the Jews in Israel will be killed during the great trib. And of course, there didn't seem to be a lot of protection during the Holocaust.

In light of this, why would you say God will defend them when it looks like he allowed in ww2 and will allow in the great trib a lot of Jews to be killed? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I really would like to see a perspective that perhaps I'm missing.

As for the blood moons, I haven't done the research, so I cannot make any definitive statement about that. I would have to see the historical data that supports that first.

Lastly, I've always thought Russia at some point will come down to bully Israel and God himself will save them and wipe Russia out in a miraculous way. I get this from Ezekiel 38-39. I wonder if I'm misapplying those chapters. I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

Again, please don't take my initial questions wrong. I really would like feedback, especially if you think my thinking is misguided.

Thanks,

Spock out

 

When I say defend them, I mean that based on Bible prophecy, God won't allow the nation of Israel to be destroyed.  I have always felt like God used the circumstance in WW2 to bring about the restoration of Israel.  I am not sure that 2/3 of the people of Israel will be killed during the tribulation.  I have always taken it that 2/3 of the overall inhabitants of the earth will be killed.  To me, Israel will be the safest place to be during that time.  Of course, when it comes down to interpretation of prophecy, only God knows for sure.  It is not like it is spelled out so clear we are unable to make mistakes. 

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest.  John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015.  He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people.  His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them.  He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally.  Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Signs in the heavens are so fascinating. I believe we are moving rapidly towards the end of the age or what's known as Daniel's 70th week (final 7 yrs.). If so, we will be seeing many great signs in the heavens.  However, I don't follow Hagee's version far enough to finish the first segment.  Too much emphasis on the pre-trib rapture.  He also dated Matt. 24:29 as Nisan 1, assuming it's the second coming.  If that's the second coming, then why does he place it in the middle of the blood moons?

 

I do agree that the blood moons have a history of affecting Israel.  The last series brought the six day war and the recapturing of Jerusalem.  I differ with Him as far as involving Iran at this time, for that will be the second war.  I believe we will see the Psalm 83 war first, the total destruction of Damascus, which would be a great time for a peace settlement to be confirmed.  This war could be very close and happen at any time, which is the same thing he says about the rapture.

 

By the way, there was another great sign in the heavens last July, but very little was said about it.  I'll post it in the video thread that other one started.  It's about the re-appearance of the star of David, with a different take on the blood moons.

 

Cheers

 

That's the first I have heard about the star of David making a re-appearance.  Thanks for your input. 

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest. John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015. He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people. His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them. He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally. Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Just looking at world events, I can see how this could occur, but that doesn't mean it will. I can't imagine Obama defending Israel against an attempted Russian invasion, and I am not sure what would happen if we did fight along side of Israel? If it were up to me, I would defend Israel regardless of the consequences, but I am not so sure with this administration. Of course, I know God would defend his people, even if nobody else comes to their assistance.

Anyway, this is all just speculation for now. I will be keeping an eye on world events to see if any of this bears out, but I am curious how others at WB feel about this kind of speculation on the part of evangelical ministers. I am also interested in anyone's knowledge about the historical significance of four consecutive blood moons and it's tie to Israel?

Wow, you have a lot to swallow here so let me try:

You said God will defend his people. Based on your context, I guess you mean Israel, right?

Just a few thoughts if I may- I believe scriptures seem to indicate in Zechariah that two-thirds of all the Jews in Israel will be killed during the great trib. And of course, there didn't seem to be a lot of protection during the Holocaust.

In light of this, why would you say God will defend them when it looks like he allowed in ww2 and will allow in the great trib a lot of Jews to be killed? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I really would like to see a perspective that perhaps I'm missing.

As for the blood moons, I haven't done the research, so I cannot make any definitive statement about that. I would have to see the historical data that supports that first.

Lastly, I've always thought Russia at some point will come down to bully Israel and God himself will save them and wipe Russia out in a miraculous way. I get this from Ezekiel 38-39. I wonder if I'm misapplying those chapters. I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

Again, please don't take my initial questions wrong. I really would like feedback, especially if you think my thinking is misguided.

Thanks,

Spock out

When I say defend them, I mean that based on Bible prophecy, God won't allow the nation of Israel to be destroyed.  I have always felt like God used the circumstance in WW2 to bring about the restoration of Israel.  I am not sure that 2/3 of the people of Israel will be killed during the tribulation.  I have always taken it that 2/3 of the overall inhabitants of the earth will be killed.  To me, Israel will be the safest place to be during that time.  Of course, when it comes down to interpretation of prophecy, only God knows for sure.  It is not like it is spelled out so clear we are unable to make mistakes.

FYI, I believe Israel will be the most unsafe place to be in the GT. Jesus told them even to flee to the mountains of Petra in Jordan I believe.

Here is the two thirds passage if interested:

7“Awake, sword, against my shepherd,

against the man who is close to me!”

declares the Lord Almighty.

“Strike the shepherd,

and the sheep will be scattered,

and I will turn my hand against the little ones.

8In the whole land,” declares the Lord,

“two-thirds will be struck down and perish;

yet one-third will be left in it.

9This third I will put into the fire;

I will refine them like silver

and test them like gold.

They will call on my name

and I will answer them;

I will say, ‘They are my people,’

and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’ ”

Again, sorry to get off task on your thread. I won't post again on this.

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest. John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015. He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people. His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them. He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally. Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Just looking at world events, I can see how this could occur, but that doesn't mean it will. I can't imagine Obama defending Israel against an attempted Russian invasion, and I am not sure what would happen if we did fight along side of Israel? If it were up to me, I would defend Israel regardless of the consequences, but I am not so sure with this administration. Of course, I know God would defend his people, even if nobody else comes to their assistance.

Anyway, this is all just speculation for now. I will be keeping an eye on world events to see if any of this bears out, but I am curious how others at WB feel about this kind of speculation on the part of evangelical ministers. I am also interested in anyone's knowledge about the historical significance of four consecutive blood moons and it's tie to Israel?

Wow, you have a lot to swallow here so let me try:

You said God will defend his people. Based on your context, I guess you mean Israel, right?

Just a few thoughts if I may- I believe scriptures seem to indicate in Zechariah that two-thirds of all the Jews in Israel will be killed during the great trib. And of course, there didn't seem to be a lot of protection during the Holocaust.

In light of this, why would you say God will defend them when it looks like he allowed in ww2 and will allow in the great trib a lot of Jews to be killed? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I really would like to see a perspective that perhaps I'm missing.

As for the blood moons, I haven't done the research, so I cannot make any definitive statement about that. I would have to see the historical data that supports that first.

Lastly, I've always thought Russia at some point will come down to bully Israel and God himself will save them and wipe Russia out in a miraculous way. I get this from Ezekiel 38-39. I wonder if I'm misapplying those chapters. I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

Again, please don't take my initial questions wrong. I really would like feedback, especially if you think my thinking is misguided.

Thanks,

Spock out

When I say defend them, I mean that based on Bible prophecy, God won't allow the nation of Israel to be destroyed.  I have always felt like God used the circumstance in WW2 to bring about the restoration of Israel.  I am not sure that 2/3 of the people of Israel will be killed during the tribulation.  I have always taken it that 2/3 of the overall inhabitants of the earth will be killed.  To me, Israel will be the safest place to be during that time.  Of course, when it comes down to interpretation of prophecy, only God knows for sure.  It is not like it is spelled out so clear we are unable to make mistakes.

FYI, I believe Israel will be the most unsafe place to be in the GT. Jesus told them even to flee to the mountains of Petra in Jordan I believe.

Here is the two thirds passage if interested:

7“Awake, sword, against my shepherd,

against the man who is close to me!”

declares the Lord Almighty.

“Strike the shepherd,

and the sheep will be scattered,

and I will turn my hand against the little ones.

8In the whole land,” declares the Lord,

“two-thirds will be struck down and perish;

yet one-third will be left in it.

9This third I will put into the fire;

I will refine them like silver

and test them like gold.

They will call on my name

and I will answer them;

I will say, ‘They are my people,’

and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’ ”

Again, sorry to get off task on your thread. I won't post again on this.

 

 

Can you give us the book and chapter? :)

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 I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

 

We don't buy oil from Iran and haven't for 34 years.  The U.S. now produces 70% of our own energy (gas, oil) so your statement doesn't stand up as fact.  Why do you think the U.S. would not stand by Israel.....against Iran?  Or do you mean against anyone?

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I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

Why do you think the U.S. would not stand by Israel.....against Iran?

 

MG,

 

I can name that tune in one note!

Obama. :lightbulb2:

 

As long as he is the Commander-in-Chief, I wouldn't trust this impostor as far as I could throw him.

I can just hear him now, "If you want peace, you can have your peace, period." :biggrin2:

 

But the USA has been a thorn in Israel's side ever since we got involved in the peace process.  And Secretary Kerry is over there now trying to force Israel to give up the land she gained after the six day war in 1967.  

The left hand does not have a clue what the right hand has been doing.  God said that He would make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people, and everyone that burdens themselves trying to remove this rock will be cut to pieces (Zech. 12:2-3).  And He will judge the nations for scattering His people and dividing up His land (Joel 3:2). 

 

So it should go without saying, that any president that gets involved in this land-for-peace deal is playing with fire.  But we have the blind leading the blind, and that's the way it's been ever since Bush Sr. 

We would be doing very well to back our only ally in the Middle East unconditionally.  That's what a true friend would do and that's what our president's did for the first 35 or 40 years of Israel becoming a nation again.

 

Cheers

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I was listening to the Glen Beck radio show the other day, and he had John Hagee as a guest. John Hagee has a new book out "4 Blood Moons," and he went on to discuss how there will be 4 such events in the next 2 years, the first being on April 15 of this year, and the last one being on September 28 of 2015. He said that whenever this has occurred in the past, it coincided with a major even effecting the Jewish people. His belief is that this will likely signify Iran getting the nuke, and Israel attacking them. He believes this will lead to Russia moving against Israel to defend it's ally. Has anyone else ever heard of the connection between blood moons and the Jewish people, and do you find these claims to be credible?

Just looking at world events, I can see how this could occur, but that doesn't mean it will. I can't imagine Obama defending Israel against an attempted Russian invasion, and I am not sure what would happen if we did fight along side of Israel? If it were up to me, I would defend Israel regardless of the consequences, but I am not so sure with this administration. Of course, I know God would defend his people, even if nobody else comes to their assistance.

Anyway, this is all just speculation for now. I will be keeping an eye on world events to see if any of this bears out, but I am curious how others at WB feel about this kind of speculation on the part of evangelical ministers. I am also interested in anyone's knowledge about the historical significance of four consecutive blood moons and it's tie to Israel?

Wow, you have a lot to swallow here so let me try:

You said God will defend his people. Based on your context, I guess you mean Israel, right?

Just a few thoughts if I may- I believe scriptures seem to indicate in Zechariah that two-thirds of all the Jews in Israel will be killed during the great trib. And of course, there didn't seem to be a lot of protection during the Holocaust.

In light of this, why would you say God will defend them when it looks like he allowed in ww2 and will allow in the great trib a lot of Jews to be killed? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I really would like to see a perspective that perhaps I'm missing.

As for the blood moons, I haven't done the research, so I cannot make any definitive statement about that. I would have to see the historical data that supports that first.

Lastly, I've always thought Russia at some point will come down to bully Israel and God himself will save them and wipe Russia out in a miraculous way. I get this from Ezekiel 38-39. I wonder if I'm misapplying those chapters. I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

Again, please don't take my initial questions wrong. I really would like feedback, especially if you think my thinking is misguided.

Thanks,

Spock out

When I say defend them, I mean that based on Bible prophecy, God won't allow the nation of Israel to be destroyed.  I have always felt like God used the circumstance in WW2 to bring about the restoration of Israel.  I am not sure that 2/3 of the people of Israel will be killed during the tribulation.  I have always taken it that 2/3 of the overall inhabitants of the earth will be killed.  To me, Israel will be the safest place to be during that time.  Of course, when it comes down to interpretation of prophecy, only God knows for sure.  It is not like it is spelled out so clear we are unable to make mistakes.

FYI, I believe Israel will be the most unsafe place to be in the GT. Jesus told them even to flee to the mountains of Petra in Jordan I believe.

Here is the two thirds passage if interested:

7“Awake, sword, against my shepherd,

against the man who is close to me!”

declares the Lord Almighty.

“Strike the shepherd,

and the sheep will be scattered,

and I will turn my hand against the little ones.

8In the whole land,” declares the Lord,

“two-thirds will be struck down and perish;

yet one-third will be left in it.

9This third I will put into the fire;

I will refine them like silver

and test them like gold.

They will call on my name

and I will answer them;

I will say, ‘They are my people,’

and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’ ”

Again, sorry to get off task on your thread. I won't post again on this.

 

Can you give us the book and chapter? :)

This passage is from Zechariah 13

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I definitely don't think USA will stand by Israel. Oil may be more important than friendship.

We don't buy oil from Iran and haven't for 34 years. The U.S. now produces 70% of our own energy (gas, oil) so your statement doesn't stand up as fact. Why do you think the U.S. would not stand by Israel.....against Iran? Or do you mean against anyone?
I meant Mid East countries in particular. They are all Muslim, so it seems to me USA may be more willing to abandon its friendship with Israel in order to placate the Muslim oil producing nations. We do get oil from there, yes? The sauds may not always be our friend.

Side note: we produce about 40% of what we consume. Although we buy mostly from Canada, we still buy about 20% from Mid East countries. So it still seems like we rely on other countries to "feed us."

Lastly, I agree with thunder- this administration is not Israel friendly.

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Lastly, I agree with thunder- this administration is not Israel friendly.

Yup, this administration is by far the worst I've seen in my lifetime.

 

But actually, I think all of the presidents since Reagan have been puppets, both Republicans and Democrats alike. :hmmm: 

 

Cheers

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Not sure why John Hagee would be on Beck's show.  I really love to hear Hagee preach.  I don't see him having anything in common with a Mormon. 

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Glen Beck invited John Hagee on his show to discuss an organization they both support that helps Jewish people return home to Israel.  He took the occasion to discuss his book. 

 

That passage that was provided by Spock may not have anything to do with the great tribulation.  Jesus referred to that comment about the sheep being scattered in reference to everyone abandoning him at the time of the crucifixion, and there was a great persecution against all Israel after his death and resurrection.  I am not sure what that passage is referring to. 

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Glen Beck invited John Hagee on his show to discuss an organization they both support that helps Jewish people return home to Israel.  He took the occasion to discuss his book. 

 

 

Had to comment. I would never support that organization. Big problem as far as I am concerned. 

 

Glenn Beck is probably not a Christian, if he adheres to the Mormon doctrine.

 

John Hagee believes Israel already has a covenant, so, it is a waste of time and money to share the gospel with the Jewish people. He is interested in end times, so would support the return of Jewish people to Israel, but CUFI works to send money to Israel and to keep the gospel from being shared with the Jewish people.  The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, has On Wings of Eagles, which helps Jewish people return to Israel, but also funds groups which do humanitarian work in Israel as well as try to keep Jewish people from hearing about Jesus or accepting Jesus.

 

I like Christians assisting Israel, but not thru organizations which work to keep Jewish people from hearing the news of Jesus.     

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You can no longer post in that thread, so I'll start a new one, so be patient.

 

Cheers

Still waiting for approval on this video. I think I titled it, "Signs in the heavens."

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Glen Beck invited John Hagee on his show to discuss an organization they both support that helps Jewish people return home to Israel.  He took the occasion to discuss his book. 

 

 

Had to comment. I would never support that organization. Big problem as far as I am concerned. 

 

Glenn Beck is probably not a Christian, if he adheres to the Mormon doctrine.

 

John Hagee believes Israel already has a covenant, so, it is a waste of time and money to share the gospel with the Jewish people. He is interested in end times, so would support the return of Jewish people to Israel, but CUFI works to send money to Israel and to keep the gospel from being shared with the Jewish people.  The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, has On Wings of Eagles, which helps Jewish people return to Israel, but also funds groups which do humanitarian work in Israel as well as try to keep Jewish people from hearing about Jesus or accepting Jesus.

 

I like Christians assisting Israel, but not thru organizations which work to keep Jewish people from hearing the news of Jesus.     

 

This is the first time I have heard about this (supporting organizations that work to keep Jews from knowing Jesus).  Where did you learn about this?  It's disturbing to me and I want to know more about it.

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Glen Beck invited John Hagee on his show to discuss an organization they both support that helps Jewish people return home to Israel.  He took the occasion to discuss his book.

 

Had to comment. I would never support that organization. Big problem as far as I am concerned. 

 

Glenn Beck is probably not a Christian, if he adheres to the Mormon doctrine.

 

John Hagee believes Israel already has a covenant, so, it is a waste of time and money to share the gospel with the Jewish people. He is interested in end times, so would support the return of Jewish people to Israel, but CUFI works to send money to Israel and to keep the gospel from being shared with the Jewish people.  The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, has On Wings of Eagles, which helps Jewish people return to Israel, but also funds groups which do humanitarian work in Israel as well as try to keep Jewish people from hearing about Jesus or accepting Jesus.

 

I like Christians assisting Israel, but not thru organizations which work to keep Jewish people from hearing the news of Jesus.

This is the first time I have heard about this (supporting organizations that work to keep Jews from knowing Jesus).  Where did you learn about this?  It's disturbing to me and I want to know more about it.

Good question.

Cheers

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Glen Beck invited John Hagee on his show to discuss an organization they both support that helps Jewish people return home to Israel.  He took the occasion to discuss his book. 

 

 

Had to comment. I would never support that organization. Big problem as far as I am concerned. 

 

Glenn Beck is probably not a Christian, if he adheres to the Mormon doctrine.

 

John Hagee believes Israel already has a covenant, so, it is a waste of time and money to share the gospel with the Jewish people. He is interested in end times, so would support the return of Jewish people to Israel, but CUFI works to send money to Israel and to keep the gospel from being shared with the Jewish people.  The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, has On Wings of Eagles, which helps Jewish people return to Israel, but also funds groups which do humanitarian work in Israel as well as try to keep Jewish people from hearing about Jesus or accepting Jesus.

 

I like Christians assisting Israel, but not thru organizations which work to keep Jewish people from hearing the news of Jesus.     

 

This is the first time I have heard about this (supporting organizations that work to keep Jews from knowing Jesus).  Where did you learn about this?  It's disturbing to me and I want to know more about it.

 

 

I have been aware of both groups and their teachings for some time. And I was a participant in a conference of missionaries to the Jewish people, when a formal paper was written and published, asking the church to be aware of the theology and thoughts of groups like this.

 

I have also written a paper to warn Christians to be aware of what they are supporting.

 

At the conference in 2009, a huge discussion was kicked off by the following paper which starts with:

 

HOW CHRISTIAN IS CHRISTIAN ZIONISM?

AN UPDATE ON ITS UNEASY INTERACTION

WITH JEWISH MISSIONS AND EVANGELISM

 

David Brickner, Executive Director, Jews for Jesus

 

Presented at the 26th Annual Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism-NA

March 2-4, 2009, Phoenix, Arizona

 

 

 

The theme of our conference, Jewish Evangelism Against All Odds, establishes an appropriate context for a discussion of Christian Zionism’s impact on Jewish evangelism today.  It is indeed an odd thing that something so seemingly positive towards the Jewish people and so apparently Christian on its face would, in fact, be at odds with Jewish evangelism.  That is the contention of this paper.  Let me unpack it a bit further:

 

Christian Zionism, as it is often expressed today, dilutes the gospel message by offering comfort apart from Christ.  Furthermore, it diverts gospel resources, in terms of people and funding, which could be channeled toward Jewish evangelism.  And it also discourages evangelical Christians from witnessing to their friends. 

 

 

 

The paper reviews that over the years, Christian Zionist organizations were not overtly evangelistic, but also did not discourage evangelism. Today, some Christian Zionist organizations plainly discourage Jewish evangelism.

 

The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews is run by a man who is a Jewish Rabbi (Yechiel Eckstein) and does not believe in Jesus. That organization, the last I heard had a yearly donations of 75 million dollars, mainly from Christians. All missionary organizations for the Jewish people combined do not take in 75 million, and do not take in combined, half that amount. Since the head of the IFCJ is not a Christian/Messianic Jew, but rather is a Jewish Rabbi, he would be and is opposed to Jewish people believing on Jesus. Money from Christians which go to that organization is redistributed to Israeli government organizations, or other private charities or religious organizations. Of course, none of the oganizations which receive the money would share the gospel with the Jewish people.  Some of the organizations do charitable work, but also work to keep Jewish people from hearing or believing in Jesus. The truth of this is simple, there are Messianic Jewish organizations in Israel who will use any donations for charitable work to assist the poor in Israel, or assist those who are moving to Israel, plus they will share the good news of Jesus.

 

CUFI/Christians United for Israel was formed by John Hagee. In the early days, for one of the first meetings, Hagee sent letters to Jewish leaders to join as special guests at the meeting. One stipulation from the Jewish leadership was of course no 'proselytizing'. Hagee was grilled concerning his beliefs and intentions, and various discussions and interviews appeared in the Jewish newspapers. Hagee stated that he believed the Jewish people have their own covenant, and if the Jewish leaders did a better job of educating the Jewish people about that covenant, no Jewish person would ever be interested in Christianity. For the first meeting, some Messianic Jews were accidently sent invitations. Once Hagee's organization realized the mistake, the Messianic Jews were un-invited. They were not wanted, as Messianic Jews openly believe in Jesus and believe Jews need to hear the gospel.  Since that time, John Hagee placed a Jewish person who does not believe in Jesus in the lead position to run CUFI... David Brog 

 

 

 

More from the paper by David Brickner:

 

International Fellowship of Christian and Jews

 

 

Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein is the Founder and President of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).  He received his Orthodox rabbinic ordination from Yeshiva University.  For 2007, the Fellowship received total revenues of over $78,000,000, most of which is funneled to relief agencies like the United Jewish Appeal and the Jewish Agency where Eckstein serves on their Boards of Directors.  Eckstein’s annual salary was reported to be over $824,000 in HaAretz.  Yet in a recent Christianity Today feature article,The Ultimate Kibitzer,” Eckstein claimed that his annual salary was $400,000.  CT did mention that IFCJ contributed another $400,000 into a pension fund on Eckstein’s behalf, so perhaps that explains the discrepancy. That same CT article indicated that IFCJ has 800,000 donors today, 98% of whom are Christian.

 

It is interesting to note that this feature article on the pages of CT, the premier U.S. evangelical Christian magazine couldn’t have been more positive if his own publicist had written it.

 

Recently appointed as goodwill ambassador for Israel, Rabbi Eckstein is also an unofficial advisor to the Prime Minister and works with Keren Hayesod, which is a quasi-governmental agency that serves as Israel’s liaison to evangelical Christian communities throughout the world.  Despite the fact that Rabbi Eckstein is an Orthodox rabbi, his organization is prominent in shaping Christian attitudes towards Israel and the Jewish people.  Sadly, the majority of his donors, who are evangelical Christians, may be unaware that Rabbi Eckstein is not a believer in Jesus or that the moneys that he funnels to Jewish organizations are not given in Jesus’ name.  At the same time, a significant number of Christians do understand that he is not a Christian; yet continue to give because of the quality of his educational programs. 

 

One pastor pointed out to me that he supports Rabbi Eckstein because of his On Wings of Eagles program.  This program offers education to churches and individuals on subjects ranging from anti-Semitism to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.  Rabbi Eckstein’s instruction to Christians and churches, however, is not limited to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict or issues of anti-Semitism.  In his book What Christians Should Know About Jews and Judaism as well as in other printed material, he attacks Messianic Jews as “Judaizers” and suggests “the rejection of Jesus as Messiah is the key to Jewish survival.”  At a local rally in support of Israel hosted by Raytown Baptist Church in the

Anshel Pfeffer, “Jewish-Christian NPO paid exec $824,000 salary,” Haaretz.com, October 5, 2008.

John W. Kennedy, “Ultimate Kibitzer—Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein wants Jews to trust evangelicals, and evangelicals to love Israel", Christianity Today, February 2009.

        

 

Kansas City area, Rabbi Eckstein stated, “The Jewish community and evangelicals are to cooperate whenever possible . . . but if they (evangelicals) are involved in targeted missions toward Jews, like Jews for Jesus, we won’t work with them.”

 

Christians United For Israel

 

A second organization competing for Christian Zionist affections is the more recently formed Christians United for Israel.  Though headlined by well-known charismatic pastor and preacher John Hagee, CFI’s executive director is David Brog, an unbelieving Jewish attorney who served in various positions in the Senate including chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter.  Brog, author of Standing with Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State, has been quite plain about Christians United for Israel’s rejection of evangelism.  In an interview with Kathryn Jean Lopez on Beliefnet he states,

 

The important question is this: is evangelical support for Israel merely a tool in the effort to convert Jews?  Is this merely some scheme to soften up the Jews so that they can better sell Jesus to them?  And the answer to this question is absolutely not.  If anything, the opposite is true.  I and others who have worked with Christians in support of Israel all report that no one has ever tried to convert us.  In fact, Christians who support Israel tend to know more Jews and to understand their sensitivities better than Christians who do not.  Thus, they have learned that Jews find ‘Jesus talk’ offensive, and they tend to leave it out of the dialogue.

 

He even went so far as to say that, “While there is no evidence that the Christian-Jewish alliance in support of Israel [aka CUFI] facilitates the conversion of Jews, there is evidence that the alliance actually works to impede efforts to convert Jews.

 

Brog made it clear in an interview in the Washington Jewish Week that “all Christians United for Israel events are strictly non-conversionary and that the group will have no

Rick Hellman, “Rabbi reassures Jews about evangelicals,” Kansas City Jewish Chronicle, February 17, 2006.

David Brog, Standing With Israel (Frontline Publishers, Lake Mary, FL, 2006).

Kathryn Jean Lopez, “Jews & Evangelicals Together: Why Some Christians Are So Pro-Israel,” http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2006/05/Jews-Evangelicals-Together-Why-Some-Christians-Are-So-Pro-Israel.aspx

David Brog, Standing With Israel, pp. 188-189.

 

 

Jewish converts as speakers at events or on the organization’s Board.”  Brog went on to say; “The group tells people that if you cannot put aside your desire to share the gospel with Jews there’s the door.”

 

Of course this would be expected policy coming from any organization run by unbelieving Jews.  The fact that the organization states that it is Christian yet excludes fellow Jewish Christians from participation is both racist and unchristian.  Tuvya Zaretsky tells the story of having been invited apparently accidentally to a program sponsored by Christians United for Israel and the Israel Christian Nexxus, a pro-Israel lobby group.  When he called to confirm participation, Patricia Johnson, who was working on the event, told him that he was invited by accident and because he was a Jewish believer in Jesus was not welcome.  Said Zaretsky,

 

“Somehow these Christians do not realize that if they want to bless Israel, they must extend that blessing to all of Israel – including those within the Body of Messiah and those who still need to be introduced to Him.”

 

Sadly, it is not just that Jewish believers are not welcomed in Christians United for Israel.  Neither is the gospel. And not just because of the Jewish unbelievers.  The well-known figurehead of CUFI and perhaps the most prominently known Christian Zionist today is John Hagee.  Hagee’s profile, I would dare say, is larger than that of the late Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson in this regard.  I know of no instance where either Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell renounced evangelism to the Jewish people despite one story in the Jerusalem Post to the contrary, which Falwell repudiated. In his new volume, Evangelicals and Israel: The Story of American Christian Zionism, Stephen Spector documents some instances where both Robertson and Falwell strongly advocate evangelizing Jewish people.

Eric Fingerhut, “Educating on Evangelicals,” Washington Jewish Week, July 5, 2007.

Ibid.

“Jewish Believers ‘Dis-Invited’ from Dialogue with John Hagee,” Jews for Jesus Realtime, June 15, 2006, http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/realtime/36/know.

Stephen Spector, Evangelicals and Israel: The Story of American Christian Zionism (New York: Oxford University Press, 2009) p.118.

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Glen Beck is indeed a Mormon. Need for to pray for him to save him and open the true word of Jesus Christ to him! Really the Gospel does need to be shared in Israel. And other places like that. In order to help them to learn about the true saving grace of Christ!

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