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10 HORNS, 3 HORNS, 1 HORN

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Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. 

Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. 

Horns = divisions within those empires

 

In Revelation 13 we see that there is a large ten-horned beast, that resembles a leopard. The leopard was the 3rd kingdom in Daniel 7, and represented the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great. Rev 13 is therefore stating that this end-times ten-horned beast will resemble Alexander's Empire (the leopard).

 

Alexander's empire consisted of the following regions:   Greece, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Libya. 

The final beast empire will resemble this leopard, and so will most likely have the same ten regions.

 

Jesus predicts very convincing false Messiahs in the last days. Now if a Messiah is to be convincing, he would have to dominate up to the Euphrates on behalf of Israel, because this is what Jewish prophecy expects of their expected Messiah. This means that Israel could become a superstate within the "leopard" kingdom,  covering the regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq. This would explain the 3 horns of Daniel 7 falling before 1 horn. If you follow Middle Eastern politics and current alliances  this could be made possible by a Kurdish/Jewish alliance, its possible the antichrist could be a Kurdish Jew, bringing the two discarded countries (Kurdistan and Israel) into a new and powerful alliance. 

 

The little horn that rises and dominates the 3 regions would then be Kurdistan or Israel. Does this view contradict any verses in the bible?

 

 

 

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How do you see Daniel 2 the metallic image kingdoms compare to Daniel 7 ?

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Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. 

Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. 

Horns = divisions within those empires

 

In Revelation 13 we see that there is a large ten-horned beast, that resembles a leopard. The leopard was the 3rd kingdom in Daniel 7, and represented the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great. Rev 13 is therefore stating that this end-times ten-horned beast will resemble Alexander's Empire (the leopard).

 

Alexander's empire consisted of the following regions:   Greece, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Libya. 

The final beast empire will resemble this leopard, and so will most likely have the same ten regions.

 

Jesus predicts very convincing false Messiahs in the last days. Now if a Messiah is to be convincing, he would have to dominate up to the Euphrates on behalf of Israel, because this is what Jewish prophecy expects of their expected Messiah. This means that Israel could become a superstate within the "leopard" kingdom,  covering the regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq. This would explain the 3 horns of Daniel 7 falling before 1 horn. If you follow Middle Eastern politics and current alliances  this could be made possible by a Kurdish/Jewish alliance, its possible the antichrist could be a Kurdish Jew, bringing the two discarded countries (Kurdistan and Israel) into a new and powerful alliance. 

 

The little horn that rises and dominates the 3 regions would then be Kurdistan or Israel. Does this view contradict any verses in the bible?

The little horn is not Jews 

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Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. 

Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. 

Horns = divisions within those empires

 

I

I find it very difficult to see how one would throw a kingdom into a lake of fire......

 

 

 

Rev 19:19-21

 20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

NASB

 

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Rev 17:8-9

8 "The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast , that he was and is not and will come.

NASB

 

 

 

Beast does not seem like a kingdom to me.    I guess we need to understand what an abyss is and who is presently in the abyss that could come out of it......     but a kingdom would be very hard to fit into that description in my personal view.

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Rev 17:8-9

8 "The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast , that he was and is not and will come.

NASB

 

 

 

Beast does not seem like a kingdom to me.    I guess we need to understand what an abyss is and who is presently in the abyss that could come out of it......     but a kingdom would be very hard to fit into that description in my personal view.

 

 

When a horn or beast is given a mouth, this refers to its leader (Daniel 7, Revelation 13)

 

I believe the abyss is symbolic language to indicate a kingdom re-arising from its deep destruction. 

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Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. 

Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. 

Horns = divisions within those empires

 

In Revelation 13 we see that there is a large ten-horned beast, that resembles a leopard. The leopard was the 3rd kingdom in Daniel 7, and represented the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great. Rev 13 is therefore stating that this end-times ten-horned beast will resemble Alexander's Empire (the leopard).

 

Alexander's empire consisted of the following regions:   Greece, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Libya. 

The final beast empire will resemble this leopard, and so will most likely have the same ten regions.

 

Jesus predicts very convincing false Messiahs in the last days. Now if a Messiah is to be convincing, he would have to dominate up to the Euphrates on behalf of Israel, because this is what Jewish prophecy expects of their expected Messiah. This means that Israel could become a superstate within the "leopard" kingdom,  covering the regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq. This would explain the 3 horns of Daniel 7 falling before 1 horn. If you follow Middle Eastern politics and current alliances  this could be made possible by a Kurdish/Jewish alliance, its possible the antichrist could be a Kurdish Jew, bringing the two discarded countries (Kurdistan and Israel) into a new and powerful alliance. 

 

The little horn that rises and dominates the 3 regions would then be Kurdistan or Israel. Does this view contradict any verses in the bible?

The little horn is not Jews 

 

 

I meant the country of Israel, not Jews specifically. Its the only country that had ceased when Revelation was written, and has amazed the world when it rose again:

 

Rev 17:  The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

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How do you see Daniel 2 the metallic image kingdoms compare to Daniel 7 ?

I believe they are the same four kingdoms:

 

Gold/Lion  =  Babylon

Silver/Bear  =  Persia

Bronze/Leopard = Greece

Iron/Beast  = Rome

 

Rome has 3 stages:

Iron = Beast = Roman Empire

Iron and clay feet  =  Rome/Istanbul

Ten toes = Little horn and ten horns = Middle East Empire

 

Expressed differently in Revelation 13:

Two horned beast (Rome/Istanbul) supports the boastful beast (boastful little horn) 

 

This Roman/Middle Eastern relationship is also expressed differently in Rev 17:

 

Rome (woman) is carried away by the beast with ten horns (Middle Eastern beast)

 

 

In all prophecies the theme is the same: Rome and Istanbul (the two old capitals of Rome) create a new ten nation Middle Eastern Empire.

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How do you see Daniel 2 the metallic image kingdoms compare to Daniel 7 ?

I believe they are the same four kingdoms:

 

Gold/Lion  =  Babylon

Silver/Bear  =  Persia

Bronze/Leopard = Greece

Iron/Beast  = Rome

 

Rome has 3 stages:

Iron = Beast = Roman Empire

Iron and clay feet  =  Rome/Istanbul

Ten toes = Little horn and ten horns = Middle East Empire

 

Expressed differently in Revelation 13:

Two horned beast (Rome/Istanbul) supports the boastful beast (boastful little horn) 

 

This Roman/Middle Eastern relationship is also expressed differently in Rev 17:

 

Rome (woman) is carried away by the beast with ten horns (Middle Eastern beast)

 

 

In all prophecies the theme is the same: Rome and Istanbul (the two old capitals of Rome) create a new ten nation Middle Eastern Empire.

Nitpicking- bear = Media-Persia

You see Rome carried away by the 10 headed beast, whereby I see the beast as Rome. The Harlot or woman perhaps is the false religion that serves the beast.

8The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

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Rev 17:8-9

8 "The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast , that he was and is not and will come.

NASB

 

 

 

Beast does not seem like a kingdom to me.    I guess we need to understand what an abyss is and who is presently in the abyss that could come out of it......     but a kingdom would be very hard to fit into that description in my personal view.

 

 

When a horn or beast is given a mouth, this refers to its leader (Daniel 7, Revelation 13)

 

I believe the abyss is symbolic language to indicate a kingdom re-arising from its deep destruction. 

 

It's going to be interesting to watch them throw a whole kingdom into the lake of fire.

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What about the Eighth Beast ? Rev.17

 

There were seven other Beasts before it but is of the seven.

 

List the seven and maybe we can get the 8th Beast.

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Rev 17:8-9

8 "The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast , that he was and is not and will come.

NASB

 

 

 

Beast does not seem like a kingdom to me.    I guess we need to understand what an abyss is and who is presently in the abyss that could come out of it......     but a kingdom would be very hard to fit into that description in my personal view.

 

 

When a horn or beast is given a mouth, this refers to its leader (Daniel 7, Revelation 13)

 

I believe the abyss is symbolic language to indicate a kingdom re-arising from its deep destruction. 

 

It's going to be interesting to watch them throw a whole kingdom into the lake of fire.

 

 

I explained that when a kingdom is given human characteristics (eg a mouth) then its clear that its leader is being referred to. Its commonly accepted that these beasts are kingdoms, but where context allows it you can also see the beast as the antichrist.  

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How do you see Daniel 2 the metallic image kingdoms compare to Daniel 7 ?

I believe they are the same four kingdoms:

 

Gold/Lion  =  Babylon

Silver/Bear  =  Persia

Bronze/Leopard = Greece

Iron/Beast  = Rome

 

Rome has 3 stages:

Iron = Beast = Roman Empire

Iron and clay feet  =  Rome/Istanbul

Ten toes = Little horn and ten horns = Middle East Empire

 

Expressed differently in Revelation 13:

Two horned beast (Rome/Istanbul) supports the boastful beast (boastful little horn) 

 

This Roman/Middle Eastern relationship is also expressed differently in Rev 17:

 

Rome (woman) is carried away by the beast with ten horns (Middle Eastern beast)

 

 

In all prophecies the theme is the same: Rome and Istanbul (the two old capitals of Rome) create a new ten nation Middle Eastern Empire.

Nitpicking- bear = Media-Persia

You see Rome carried away by the 10 headed beast, whereby I see the beast as Rome. The Harlot or woman perhaps is the false religion that serves the beast.

8The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

 

 

Verse 18 was written when Rome ruled over the kings of the land.

We know the location of this ten horns empire, because it resembles the leopard (Greek Empire) and contains the bear and the lion (Iran and Iraq). 

I agree that Daniel 7 is referring to the Roman Empire, but the ten toes, the ten horns both indicate a final end-times ten-part kingdom set up by Rome. A little horn represents a different location to the original capital, if you study up on horns (just read Daniel 8 together with a commentary).  So the location of the capital city moves to the Middle East, we have a third capital of the Roman Empire, not just Rome/Istanbul.

 

This third capital (Jerusalem) will be carrying Rome. (will be the dominant power)

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What about the Eighth Beast ? Rev.17

 

There were seven other Beasts before it but is of the seven.

 

List the seven and maybe we can get the 8th Beast.

 

5 WERE:

 

Egypt 

Assyria

Babylon (gold/lion)

Persia (silver/bear)

Greece (bronze/leopard)

 

ONE IS

Roman Empire  (iron/beast)

 

ONE IS TO COME AND WILL REMAIN A LITTLE WHILE:

Rome/Istanbul  (two feet of iron and clay)  (still the beast)

 

EIGHTH KINGDOM:

Rome sets up ten countries in the Middle East (ten toes/ten horns)  (still the beast)

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What about the Eighth Beast ? Rev.17

 

There were seven other Beasts before it but is of the seven.

 

List the seven and maybe we can get the 8th Beast.

 

5 WERE:

 

Egypt 

Assyria

Babylon (gold/lion)

Persia (silver/bear)

Greece (bronze/leopard)

 

ONE IS

Roman Empire  (iron/beast)

 

ONE IS TO COME AND WILL REMAIN A LITTLE WHILE:

Rome/Istanbul  (two feet of iron and clay)  (still the beast)

 

EIGHTH KINGDOM:

Rome sets up ten countries in the Middle East (ten toes/ten horns)  (still the beast)

 

I agree with most of the past Kingdoms

Istanbul is a new one for me.

 

So how is  Rome/Istanbul the image of Roman empire ?

Which beast got wounded ?

I thought the eighth Beast would be actually the image since it says it is of the seven.( revive at a later time)

I know the horns may look like it sets them apart, but the woman is a mother to something, possibly making them two elements. but one False prophet.

 

I think Rev 17 gives more details about the beast from the earth, Rev.13 kind of shows more of the religious side of it.

I do believe its a huge system consist of different elements to be called Great City Babylon.-Rev.18 is tied in with Rev.17

Edited by Bible_Gazer
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What about the Eighth Beast ? Rev.17

 

There were seven other Beasts before it but is of the seven.

 

List the seven and maybe we can get the 8th Beast.

 

5 WERE:

 

Egypt 

Assyria

Babylon (gold/lion)

Persia (silver/bear)

Greece (bronze/leopard)

 

ONE IS

Roman Empire  (iron/beast)

 

ONE IS TO COME AND WILL REMAIN A LITTLE WHILE:

Rome/Istanbul  (two feet of iron and clay)  (still the beast)

 

EIGHTH KINGDOM:

Rome sets up ten countries in the Middle East (ten toes/ten horns)  (still the beast)

 

I agree with most of the past Kingdoms

Istanbul is a new one for me.

 

So how is  Rome/Istanbul the image of Roman empire ?

Which beast got wounded ?

I thought the eighth Beast would be actually the image since it says it is of the seven.( revive at a later time)

I know the horns may look like it sets them apart, but the woman is a mother to something, possibly making them two elements. but one False prophet.

 

 

Istanbul is merely the modern name for the city of Constantinople, the other capital of the Roman empire.

 

You say there are seven beasts, but they are actually 7 heads representing seven consecutive empres. One of the heads got wounded, so to me this is clearly the 6th one, the Roman empire. It split into two kingdoms (Rome/Turkey) and this wound has never been healed since. When Rome and Turkey join again, this will be the healing of the wound. 

 

The 8th kingdom is of the seven because it is also is a kingdom that supports a worldly religion and dominates the Middle East and is consecutive to the other 7. Another ungodly empire.

 

The woman of Revelation 12 is a mother, the woman of Rev 17 is a whore. 

 

Its the whore of Rev 17 that sits on the beast.

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What about the Eighth Beast ? Rev.17

 

There were seven other Beasts before it but is of the seven.

 

List the seven and maybe we can get the 8th Beast.

 

5 WERE:

 

Egypt 

Assyria

Babylon (gold/lion)

Persia (silver/bear)

Greece (bronze/leopard)

 

ONE IS

Roman Empire  (iron/beast)

 

ONE IS TO COME AND WILL REMAIN A LITTLE WHILE:

Rome/Istanbul  (two feet of iron and clay)  (still the beast)

 

EIGHTH KINGDOM:

Rome sets up ten countries in the Middle East (ten toes/ten horns)  (still the beast)

 

I agree with most of the past Kingdoms

Istanbul is a new one for me.

 

So how is  Rome/Istanbul the image of Roman empire ?

Which beast got wounded ?

I thought the eighth Beast would be actually the image since it says it is of the seven.( revive at a later time)

I know the horns may look like it sets them apart, but the woman is a mother to something, possibly making them two elements. but one False prophet.

 

 

Istanbul is merely the modern name for the city of Constantinople, the other capital of the Roman empire.

 

You say there are seven beasts, but they are actually 7 heads representing seven consecutive empres. One of the heads got wounded, so to me this is clearly the 6th one, the Roman empire. It split into two kingdoms (Rome/Turkey) and this wound has never been healed since. When Rome and Turkey join again, this will be the healing of the wound. 

 

The 8th kingdom is of the seven because it is also is a kingdom that supports a worldly religion and dominates the Middle East and is consecutive to the other 7. Another ungodly empire.

 

The woman of Revelation 12 is a mother, the woman of Rev 17 is a whore. 

 

Its the whore of Rev 17 that sits on the beast.

 

So you are seeing that the 7th and the eighth are still yet to come ?

They will be joined together at the same time and create Great City Babylon ?

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Since the Emperor Constantine created the city of Constantinople in 330AD, he effectively split the Roman Empire into two parts, Western Europe and Turkey. The Roman empire has been split ever since.

 

We are currently living in the split empire period, where western Europe and Turkey are separate. they will soon join together again, the wounded head of the Roman empire will heal soon. The whore city Babylon just represents the Vatican/Western Europe part of Rome. It already exists.

 

The 8th will come when the two-part revived Roman empire establishes the new Middle East Union of ten nations. Turkey and the new 3-part country (Kurdistan/ Israel?) will dominate this union.

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I do think the little horn of Daniel 7 is the Rev.13 Sea Beast speaking great things.

I think the sea Beast is the 7th head reigning, but this is history to me of the RC church during the dark ages.

But is coming back again.

 

I have had in my mind that the Eighth Beast with the Ten Kings would go against Israel - Ezek. 38, 39

God caused them to agree to come together for a purpose.

Just thinking how Israel would be a part of system.

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yes I agree, the little horn is the same as the sea beast. 

What you seem to be missing is that the sea beast and the Rev 17 beast are the same ten-horned beast, therefore the sea beast is the 8th beast, with its background history represented by the 7 heads.

 

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king

 

If you read Ezekiel 39 and Joel 2, these are Armageddon, the final war when the northern army attacks Jerusalem.

In both chapters Israel is in sin:

Ezekiel 39:  They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid.

Joel 2: The day of the Lord is great;  it is dreadful. Who can endure it?  “Even now,” declares the Lord,   “return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning.”

 

The antichrist becomes world ruler in Jerusalem, it is in the holy land that he is attacked from the east and the North at the time of the resurrection:

But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many. He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him. At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake

Edited by ARGOSY
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I do think the little horn of Daniel 7 is the Rev.13 Sea Beast speaking great things.

I think the sea Beast is the 7th head reigning, but this is history to me of the RC church during the dark ages.

But is coming back again.

 

I have had in my mind that the Eighth Beast with the Ten Kings would go against Israel - Ezek. 38, 39

God caused them to agree to come together for a purpose.

Just thinking how Israel would be a part of system.

If you read my thread on "Befriend them, then kill" you will see how this all works. Islam befriends Israel, supports Israel's new Messiah, and when Israel is complacent under their false Messiah, then Islam suddenly attacks Israel, simple as that. 

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Since the Emperor Constantine created the city of Constantinople in 330AD, he effectively split the Roman Empire into two parts, Western Europe and Turkey. The Roman empire has been split ever since.

 

We are currently living in the split empire period, where western Europe and Turkey are separate. they will soon join together again, the wounded head of the Roman empire will heal soon. The whore city Babylon just represents the Vatican/Western Europe part of Rome. It already exists.

 

The 8th will come when the two-part revived Roman empire establishes the new Middle East Union of ten nations. Turkey and the new 3-part country (Kurdistan/ Israel?) will dominate this union.

You do know turkey in 2009 broke away from Israel and aligned itself with Syria.

I see turkey as being part of gogs army in Ezekiel 38-39, aligning with Russia and coming down into Israel. Of course God has something to say about that.

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Since the Emperor Constantine created the city of Constantinople in 330AD, he effectively split the Roman Empire into two parts, Western Europe and Turkey. The Roman empire has been split ever since.

 

We are currently living in the split empire period, where western Europe and Turkey are separate. they will soon join together again, the wounded head of the Roman empire will heal soon. The whore city Babylon just represents the Vatican/Western Europe part of Rome. It already exists.

 

The 8th will come when the two-part revived Roman empire establishes the new Middle East Union of ten nations. Turkey and the new 3-part country (Kurdistan/ Israel?) will dominate this union.

You do know turkey in 2009 broke away from Israel and aligned itself with Syria.

I see turkey as being part of gogs army in Ezekiel 38-39, aligning with Russia and coming down into Israel. Of course God has something to say about that.

 

 

 

Exactly, Turkey (Gog) and Russia invade the antichrist in Israel. As I pointed out already in this thread, Ezekiel 39 and Joel 2 show that Israel is in sin until the northern army invades. If you read my "befriend them" thread, you will see that despite the outward rhetoric of the last few years , plans are coming together for a regional co-operation.

 

Daniel 11 says the antichrist already owns the beautiful land , but not jordan and Saudi. If he owns Israel, why would he be invading it? He does not invade Israel, he is in the South when the northern army suddenly attacks, because "reports from the north alarm him".

 

 

You must not be fooled by outward rhetoric in the Middle East, its by their actions that you know what is going on. According to actions, the Kurds, Turkey, Israel and the USA have been allies for many years. 

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Then you would see that Daniel 7 4th beast is the Iron kingdom which started with Pagan Rome

and went into the Papal Rome(got wounded) and is still alive but will gain power once more by the Ten kings.

 

I do see the 6th and 7th head is Rome and the 8th is of the last one and still Rome(iron)

I do see the  sea beast is already history(1,260 years in the dark ages)but still alive in parts.

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Ok , I don't take the historicist approach of 1 day = 1 year.

 

 I have a general rule, when there is a lot of detail, then a prophecy is literal and not figurative because God doesn't want to confuse us with many symbols.

 

Thus when Daniel 7 refers to a time, times and half a time, and Daniel 9 refers to half a "seven", and Daniel 12 refers to "a time, times and half a time", and Daniel 12 refers to 1290 days, and Rev 13 refers to 42 months, and Rev 12 refers to a "time, times and half a time" , and Rev 12 refers to 1260 days...........

 

Instead of seeing them as various time-frames I see this as multiple confirmation of a short sharp tribulation period of just 3.5 years.

 

 

Regarding the iron kingdom, yes it has 3 stages:

1) Iron (Imperial Rome)

2) Two feet of iron and clay (split Rome    Europe/Byzantium)

3) Ten toes (ten part kingdom)

 

This is the same as 

6th head)   Rome

7th head)  Wounded Rome -  Rome/Istanbul

8th kingdom)  Ten part Middle Eastern Union

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