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Creation Theology


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#1
nebula

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When God opened the Torah with the Creation account, what was His purpose? Was He concerned with making His people acquainted with the heavens and the earth, or was He concerned with acquainting His people with Himself?

 

I believe His heart is for the people to know Him. Thus, I believe that explained the workings of Creation in such a way as for the people to understand Him.

 

So what if we stepped aside for a moment away from time frames and whether or not the Pinwheel Galaxy was created on the fourth Day and looked at what is God conveying to us that He wants us to know about Him?



#2
nebula

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My belief is that God is telling His people, "This is how I turned the darkness into a new dawning!" more so than "Look at what I can do in 24 hours!"

Here is why.

 

While the last interpretation may give you a sense of the bigness of God, it also makes Him seem, well, "out there", unapproachable. The first gives a sense of the nearness of God, like the gentle hands caressing an injured bird an healing its wings. Instead of God's magnificence being the "big power", His magnificence is being the healer, the deliverer, the restorer - like we see Jesus when He walked this earth.

When darkness is surrounding me and my life is in chaos, I don't need the Great Cosmic Being who created a septillion stars and innumerably more planets in 24 hours, I need the God who is attached to my chaos, darkness, and void, and will bring me into His light, make order of the chaos, and bring new life out of the void.

 

 

Knowing God for His power did not make the people fall in love with Him. In fact, they kept disrespecting His power time and time again (grumbling, complaining, disobeying).

 

So what would be the most likely scenario of what was in His heart - another description of His power, or a description of His love, healing, and deliverance, traits that would more likely draw His people to love Him?



#3
alphaparticle

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Right, these are interesting thoughts. Insofar as I believe God create an infinite amount of 'stuff' in no time,it doesn't seem to be of essential theological significance to me, vis a vis God's nature, whether or not creation happened in 24 hr cycles. I get the idea from Genesis 1 that there was an orderly creation, that God was completely in control the entire time, and so on.Now the question is, why are they reported in that particular way, and that is the question I wonder about. I see the potential for both Big Bang cosmology, broadly speaking, and evolution, to be reflected in the ordering of creation in Genesis.



#4
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Now the question is, why are they reported in that particular way, and that is the question I wonder about.


Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

Genesis 1:2 - The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

 

Jeremiah 4:22-23 - For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding. They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know." I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void ; And to the heavens, and they had no light. (Read in context)

 

 

Genesis 1:3 -  Then God said, "Let there be light "; and there was light.

 

2Cor 4:6 - For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 9:2 - The people who walk in darkness Will see a great light ; Those who live in a dark land, The light will shine on them.

 

 

Genesis 1:4 - God saw that the light was good ; and God separated the light from the darkness.

 

1 Peter 2:9 - But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light ;

 

 

 

And so forth. (I could make the effort to continue, but that would take a lot of time, but I hope you get the idea.)



#5
shiloh357

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When God opened the Torah with the Creation account, what was His purpose? Was He concerned with making His people acquainted with the heavens and the earth, or was He concerned with acquainting His people with Himself?

Why does it have to be either/or?   Why can't it be both/and??



#6
nebula

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When God opened the Torah with the Creation account, what was His purpose? Was He concerned with making His people acquainted with the heavens and the earth, or was He concerned with acquainting His people with Himself?

Why does it have to be either/or?   Why can't it be both/and??

 

Why would He be concerned with people being acquainted with the heavens and the earth?



#7
shiloh357

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When God opened the Torah with the Creation account, what was His purpose? Was He concerned with making His people acquainted with the heavens and the earth, or was He concerned with acquainting His people with Himself?

Why does it have to be either/or?   Why can't it be both/and??

 

Why would He be concerned with people being acquainted with the heavens and the earth?

 

For one thing, God left man to be stewards of creation.   God, according to the Bible cares about His creation and tells us that He even named all of the stars.  The Bible says that God has left His signature on creation as  means of creation glorifying Him.   Why wouldn't God, on those grounds alone, want us to be familiar with the design of creation as it is that design that reveals His nature and being to us?   

 

Our location in the Milky Way galaxy puts us in the best place to be able to explore outer space.  Anywhere else in the galaxy and we would be able to see nothing.  We are on outer edge of the galaxy that lets us see out into space and witness the phenomenons that God has placed there for us see.   The universe is a theatre of His glory.  Why would he not want us to be acquainted with it?



#8
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For one thing, God left man to be stewards of creation.   God, according to the Bible cares about His creation and tells us that He even named all of the stars.  The Bible says that God has left His signature on creation as  means of creation glorifying Him.   Why wouldn't God, on those grounds alone, want us to be familiar with the design of creation as it is that design that reveals His nature and being to us?   

 

Our location in the Milky Way galaxy puts us in the best place to be able to explore outer space.  Anywhere else in the galaxy and we would be able to see nothing.  We are on outer edge of the galaxy that lets us see out into space and witness the phenomenons that God has placed there for us see.   The universe is a theatre of His glory.  Why would he not want us to be acquainted with it?

 

Sure! But if that was the purpose of Genesis 1, to me it seems what is written is severely lacking valuable information on the matter.

 

 

In any eventy, I was hoping this thread could focus more on what theology people have gained out of Genesis 1, not to fall into the same old arguments. Wouldn't that be a nice switch?

 

I don't mind if you share your interpretations of things like yom, but please with it explain what theological revelation(s) you gain from it, as I did.



#9
a-seeker

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Right, these are interesting thoughts. Insofar as I believe God create an infinite amount of 'stuff' in no time,it doesn't seem to be of essential theological significance to me, vis a vis God's nature, whether or not creation happened in 24 hr cycles. I get the idea from Genesis 1 that there was an orderly creation, that God was completely in control the entire time, and so on.Now the question is, why are they reported in that particular way, and that is the question I wonder about. I see the potential for both Big Bang cosmology, broadly speaking, and evolution, to be reflected in the ordering of creation in Genesis.

Hi AP,

 

I believe I have given you my answer to your question "why is Genesis structured the way it is" once before.  

 

I have given it elsewhere so many times that I am beginning to realize nobody really cares.  My final question is, "Why?"

 

Is it not interesting?  Has it been proven (on historical grounds) wrong?  Does it contradict anything else in the Bible?

 

clb



#10
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When God opened the Torah with the Creation account, what was His purpose? Was He concerned with making His people acquainted with the heavens and the earth, or was He concerned with acquainting His people with Himself?

Why does it have to be either/or?   Why can't it be both/and??

 

Why would He be concerned with people being acquainted with the heavens and the earth?

 

Exactly! He was concerned with acquainting His people with Himself!

 

That's what the bible is about! 

 

He gave us inquiring minds, that much is obvious from these threads.....



#11
shiloh357

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For one thing, God left man to be stewards of creation.   God, according to the Bible cares about His creation and tells us that He even named all of the stars.  The Bible says that God has left His signature on creation as  means of creation glorifying Him.   Why wouldn't God, on those grounds alone, want us to be familiar with the design of creation as it is that design that reveals His nature and being to us?   

 

Our location in the Milky Way galaxy puts us in the best place to be able to explore outer space.  Anywhere else in the galaxy and we would be able to see nothing.  We are on outer edge of the galaxy that lets us see out into space and witness the phenomenons that God has placed there for us see.   The universe is a theatre of His glory.  Why would he not want us to be acquainted with it?

 

Sure! But if that was the purpose of Genesis 1, to me it seems what is written is severely lacking valuable information on the matter.

 

 

 

It's not lacking at all.  Genesis 1 tells us a lot more than you think.  Genesis 1 is the beginning of Christian theology.  It is the starting point for everything we believe as Christians.   You asked me before about what Genesis 1 teaches us about God and I said the following:

 

1. God exists

2. God is the Lifegiver

3. God alone is the Creator of all things living or inanimate

4. God is sovereign

5. God is benevolent

6. God is orderly and logical

7. God is all-knowing, all-powerful and omnipresent

8. God desired companionship and so He created man in His image and in his likeness

9. God gives man a purpose and reason for living

10. God made man to rest in Him and to enter into His rest.
11. God made a earth that was perfect, free of sin

 

In any eventy, I was hoping this thread could focus more on what theology people have gained out of Genesis 1, not to fall into the same old arguments. Wouldn't that be a nice switch?

 

What I said in post #7 is theology.    The New Creation Perspective thread I wrote several years ago covers how Genesis 1 parallels principles the New Testament reveals about us as New Creations in Christ.   But the notion that God's nature can be seen in what He made is no less theological in nature than what I wrote before.

 

I don't mind if you share your interpretations of things like yom, but please with it explain what theological revelation(s) you gain from it, as I did.

 

Yes, I can do that.   Where would you like to start?



#12
alphaparticle

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Right, these are interesting thoughts. Insofar as I believe God create an infinite amount of 'stuff' in no time,it doesn't seem to be of essential theological significance to me, vis a vis God's nature, whether or not creation happened in 24 hr cycles. I get the idea from Genesis 1 that there was an orderly creation, that God was completely in control the entire time, and so on.Now the question is, why are they reported in that particular way, and that is the question I wonder about. I see the potential for both Big Bang cosmology, broadly speaking, and evolution, to be reflected in the ordering of creation in Genesis.

Hi AP,

 

I believe I have given you my answer to your question "why is Genesis structured the way it is" once before.  

 

I have given it elsewhere so many times that I am beginning to realize nobody really cares.  My final question is, "Why?"

 

Is it not interesting?  Has it been proven (on historical grounds) wrong?  Does it contradict anything else in the Bible?

 

clb

 

Connor, I read your interpretation. If you are sore that I didn't jump on your bandwagon I am not sure what to say to you. I went with a similar approach for a while, I am looking for something a bit more robust.



#13
nebula

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You asked me before about what Genesis 1 teaches us about God and I said the following:


Yes. But I hope you don't mind if we have a separate thread that is devoted to just the theology of the Creation account?

So I appreciate you writing this here, and I hope others will join in on what theology ("theology" being "the study of GOD") they have gleaned from the Creation account.

 

What I said in post #7 is theology.


Then great!

I was simply appealing that we can share without rehashing the same old debates, that's all. OK?

 

The New Creation Perspective thread I wrote several years ago covers how Genesis 1 parallels principles the New Testament reveals about us as New Creations in Christ.


And that was the best study on Genesis 1 I've ever read. :)

 

Yes, I can do that.   Where would you like to start?


Wherever you'd like, I guess.



#14
shiloh357

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I don't think many people ever stop to think of Creation as a doctrine.   But the Doctrine of Creation (hereafter DoC) is the starting point for everything we as Christians believe. 

 

For one thing, Genesis 1 teaches about the power of God's Word.  God spoke the universe into existence and He can destroy it in a whisper.   His Word is pregnant with power.   We see this in Genesis 1  The reason we can put faith in the power of His word is that we can see it's power in operation.  His word, in particular the Gospel is the power of God for salvation (Rom. 1:16).  The word for "power" in that verse is dunamis, which refers to an operational, moving force.  The power of Gospel is seen in what it can do.

 

The DoC reveals that God is the source of all life.  God gave life to vegitation before the process of photosynthesis.  He gave life to all living things including man.  Life begets life.   Life must come from something that is life.  That is why the best food for us to eat comes from things that were once alive.  Meat, fresh fruits and veggies, whole grains are the best things for us to eat because they come from living things.   The DoC teaches that God is our lifegiver.  He is the source of our life, both physcially and spiritually.  This is why we must turn to Him and no one and nothing else for eternal life.  He is the LIfe (John 14:6)

 

The DoC reveals that man has purpose and value.   We are not an accident, but are the product of God's desire for companionship and His love.  God designed the universe and our planet just for us.  All of what we see is for us to enjoy.     We have purpose because we were made to enjoy God.   Every human being has primary needs that God put in us.  He created us with needs that only He would be able to meet.  God created us to fill those primary needs and in doing so to give us total and lasting fulfillment.  Our spouse can meet our secondary needs but God is the one who meets our primary needs that he hardwired into us.   The part of you that admires the beauty and grandeur of nature, the part of you that is captivated by works of art, music, etc. is the part of you God created to admire Him.  We are made to admire God, which is why we as human beings admire greatness.   God has allowed us to see the grandeur of outerspace to show us His power and glory.

 

We have value because we are made in His image and likeness.  We are created to be in relationship and fellowship with God.  Because of that, we are the only creatures on earth that Jesus died for.  In Genesis 2:4, we find the first occurance of the Name YHVH.  That is God's redemptive Name.   It is the Name connected with all of His redemptive attributes (YHVH Rophe, YHVH Shammah, YHVH Shalom, etc.).   God relates to man redemptively as YHVH but to the rest of creation, He is simply Elohim.

 

The DoC reveals a God who is control,  He is sovereign.  God is not uninvolved, but is sovereign over all of creation including the affairs of men.  God's authority is seen in His ability to control the elements of creation to fine tune an amazing planet for us to live on.  Jesus demonstrated this same kind of soveriegnty over nature when He calmed the storm on the Sea of Galilee.

 

I am on my way to a Superbowl party, so this is all I have time to speak of relative to the DoC.  But I will post more later tonight or more likely tomorrow.  There is tons more to say about the DoC.  



#15
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Right, these are interesting thoughts. Insofar as I believe God create an infinite amount of 'stuff' in no time,it doesn't seem to be of essential theological significance to me, vis a vis God's nature, whether or not creation happened in 24 hr cycles. I get the idea from Genesis 1 that there was an orderly creation, that God was completely in control the entire time, and so on.Now the question is, why are they reported in that particular way, and that is the question I wonder about. I see the potential for both Big Bang cosmology, broadly speaking, and evolution, to be reflected in the ordering of creation in Genesis.

Hi AP,

 

I believe I have given you my answer to your question "why is Genesis structured the way it is" once before.  

 

I have given it elsewhere so many times that I am beginning to realize nobody really cares.  My final question is, "Why?"

 

Is it not interesting?  Has it been proven (on historical grounds) wrong?  Does it contradict anything else in the Bible?

 

clb

 

Connor, I read your interpretation. If you are sore that I didn't jump on your bandwagon I am not sure what to say to you. I went with a similar approach for a while, I am looking for something a bit more robust.

 

I am not sore; only confused.  To say something is weak (or not robust enough) is to say one sees flaws in that something.  I merely wish to know what those flaws are in my interpretation.  Simply give me one flaw and I'll shut up about it.  You can think of it as charity--for I certainly do not want to endorse an interpretation that can't hold water.

 

clb



#16
alphaparticle

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Right, these are interesting thoughts. Insofar as I believe God create an infinite amount of 'stuff' in no time,it doesn't seem to be of essential theological significance to me, vis a vis God's nature, whether or not creation happened in 24 hr cycles. I get the idea from Genesis 1 that there was an orderly creation, that God was completely in control the entire time, and so on.Now the question is, why are they reported in that particular way, and that is the question I wonder about. I see the potential for both Big Bang cosmology, broadly speaking, and evolution, to be reflected in the ordering of creation in Genesis.

Hi AP,

 

I believe I have given you my answer to your question "why is Genesis structured the way it is" once before.  

 

I have given it elsewhere so many times that I am beginning to realize nobody really cares.  My final question is, "Why?"

 

Is it not interesting?  Has it been proven (on historical grounds) wrong?  Does it contradict anything else in the Bible?

 

clb

 

Connor, I read your interpretation. If you are sore that I didn't jump on your bandwagon I am not sure what to say to you. I went with a similar approach for a while, I am looking for something a bit more robust.

 

I am not sore; only confused.  To say something is weak (or not robust enough) is to say one sees flaws in that something.  I merely wish to know what those flaws are in my interpretation.  Simply give me one flaw and I'll shut up about it.  You can think of it as charity--for I certainly do not want to endorse an interpretation that can't hold water.

 

clb

 

If I wanted to engage you in that discussion, wouldn't I have done it in the thread in which you brought it up? I'm confused as to why you are dragging this here. Connor, may i suggest that this may be better hashed out in PM if you think it needs more discussion?



#17
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So . . .

 

Doesn't anyone else have any insights into what you learned about God and His relation to man out of the Creation account?

 

:sad030:



#18
shiloh357

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So . . .

 

Doesn't anyone else have any insights into what you learned about God and His relation to man out of the Creation account?

 

:sad030:

From post #14

 

We have value because we are made in His image and likeness.  We are created to be in relationship and fellowship with God.  Because of that, we are the only creatures on earth that Jesus died for.  In Genesis 2:4, we find the first occurance of the Name YHVH.  That is God's redemptive Name.   It is the Name connected with all of His redemptive attributes (YHVH Rophe, YHVH Shammah, YHVH Shalom, etc.).   God relates to man redemptively as YHVH but to the rest of creation, He is simply Elohim.



#19
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So . . .

 

Doesn't anyone else have any insights into what you learned about God and His relation to man out of the Creation account?

 

:sad030:

not that I would care to share amongst the folks posting lately...



#20
alphaparticle

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So . . .

 

Doesn't anyone else have any insights into what you learned about God and His relation to man out of the Creation account?

 

:sad030:

not that I would care to share amongst the folks posting lately...

 

This is an unproductive and unfortunate comment.






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