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False pastors?

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#1
nebula

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"I've experienced many problems from those calling themselves prophets or apostles, but are not. But the greatest problems were caused by those calling themselves pastors, but were not."

 

What do you think?



#2
Qnts2

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Well, having been and still am, in an area which is heavily shepherding movement, I have experienced many so called pastors who are more interested in position and control. Over the past 10 years or so, some of these same pastors have claimed a 'promotion' for worthy service and are now bishops or apostles. The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), in action, can be very very similar to shepherding movement. 

 

The Shepherding movement basically was the sheep must submit to their pastors, in extremes. If a 'Sheep' failed to submit, they were manipulated, told they were rebellious, had a Jezebel spirit, were damaging Gods work and Gods annointed. Ultimately, if the 'sheep' failed to submit, they were ostracized and said to have back slidden, or worse. The pastors who fell into the shepherding movement tended to like an elevated position and power. The 'sheep' who were in that movement were essentially manipulated and crippled Christians, who were made to be entirely reliant on 'daddy pastor'. In my view, the movement damaged an entire generation of Christians, making few mature and effective believers.

 

Now with the New Apostolic Reformation, the teaching is, to become a fully functional church, the church must submit to an apostle. There are men who claim to be apostles, going around and attempting to be an apostle of a given area. They are working to convince the pastors to come under the apostle. (Apostles in scripture shared the gospel and established churches, but these apostles gather established churches under them, and from there, might share the gospel from a church pulpit). These apostles are one higher then the pastor, ruling over multiple churches, and teaching a form of shepherding.

 

So which is worse. A pastor might directly hurt many Christians, but an apostle might teach pastors who hurt many Christians.     



#3
OneLight

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"I've experienced many problems from those calling themselves prophets or apostles, but are not. But the greatest problems were caused by those calling themselves pastors, but were not."

 

What do you think?

 

The statement echos scripture.  We are warned about false apostles and false teachers, which I believe will grow in numbers as His return draws near.



#4
B3L13v3R

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Looking to heed Christ and stay away from these deceiving rascals!  :runforhills:

 

Mat 24:4-14
(4)  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5)  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
(6)  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
(7)  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
(8)  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
(9)  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
(10)  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
(11)  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12)  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(13)  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
(14)  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

2Co 11:13-15
(13)  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
(14)  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
(15)  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

Jer 23:1-2
(1)  Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
(2)  Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.




 



#5
ayin jade

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I think far too few use any discernment and take too many prophets etc at face value instead of testing them to see if they are truly from God.



#6
Hall7

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I think one of the major problems is that many pastors let pride take over, and so they begin to glorify themselves instead of God. Some like that sense of false power...



#7
shiloh357

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"I've experienced many problems from those calling themselves prophets or apostles, but are not. But the greatest problems were caused by those calling themselves pastors, but were not."

 

What do you think?

I've learned that there are always two sides to every story.



#8
Willa

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I have had several pastors who admittedly were not called by God. An Episcopal priest said he had taken an aptitude test which showed him to be either a good lawyer or a good preacher. He chose the priesthood.
Another was the top of his class in seminary and was elected to be the pastor of our Lutheran church. He became a pastor because his mother wanted him to. There were lots of books of freud on his shelves but no Bible commentaries or versions. He did not believe in a hell (the garbage dump) and had us recite his revised version of the apostles creed. He could not understand born again Christians and called each of us into his office to"get under our skin". Hummm.

The rest of my pastors loved the Lord and truly cared for their flocks. All were imperfect but sincerely were believers and recounted how God had called them to the ministry. However, some of my churches subscribed to the small group style with lay pastors overseeing those in their groups. These did not try to controll, but there were many errors made by them because they were not called of God. In one a member tried to take over the group and threatened damnation to those who did not follow him. I reported him to our pastor and it was dealt with. One used his position to try to sell me gummie vitamins in his pyramid job. Another decided that my husband was not saved! (He had chosen not to join that church due to its requirement that we vow to tithe.) A few were godly people. So while these small groups created close fellowship, they were often not led by undershepherds who were called by God to do this.

So far I have not seen this in my current church. Our pastor believes that we are to submit to each other and he submits to his board of elders which is not composed of "yes men". They do not procede with something unless they are in total prayerful agreement. He teaches that leaders should be servents.
These last few years have been hard for him with a bad physical accident that still weighs on him and multiple personal attacks that were hurtful. I waited outside his office once while someone railed, shouted and accused him falsely of just wanting money. (He never asks for money for the church and rarely even teaches on tithing.) It is not easy to be a pastor and the true ones do need our prayers and support.

#9
Openly Curious

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Well, having been and still am, in an area which is heavily shepherding movement, I have experienced many so called pastors who are more interested in position and control. Over the past 10 years or so, some of these same pastors have claimed a 'promotion' for worthy service and are now bishops or apostles. The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), in action, can be very very similar to shepherding movement. 

 

The Shepherding movement basically was the sheep must submit to their pastors, in extremes. If a 'Sheep' failed to submit, they were manipulated, told they were rebellious, had a Jezebel spirit, were damaging Gods work and Gods annointed. Ultimately, if the 'sheep' failed to submit, they were ostracized and said to have back slidden, or worse. The pastors who fell into the shepherding movement tended to like an elevated position and power. The 'sheep' who were in that movement were essentially manipulated and crippled Christians, who were made to be entirely reliant on 'daddy pastor'. In my view, the movement damaged an entire generation of Christians, making few mature and effective believers.

 

Now with the New Apostolic Reformation, the teaching is, to become a fully functional church, the church must submit to an apostle. There are men who claim to be apostles, going around and attempting to be an apostle of a given area. They are working to convince the pastors to come under the apostle. (Apostles in scripture shared the gospel and established churches, but these apostles gather established churches under them, and from there, might share the gospel from a church pulpit). These apostles are one higher then the pastor, ruling over multiple churches, and teaching a form of shepherding.

 

So which is worse. A pastor might directly hurt many Christians, but an apostle might teach pastors who hurt many Christians.     

 

 

This is sad but it is true I've seen it in action in my neck of the woods and it is all about control and keeping the flock of God beaten down and it is not God's way.  God gently leads his sheep and does not drive them. 

I do believe there are true gifted leaders that are full of God's love who understand the example of Jesus making disciples and what that entail biblically. 

 

However the true leaders who have been sent by God are few and the false ones are many. 

 

But there is one true characteristic that helps in the discernment between the true and false leaders and that is "love" the kind like it tell us in....... 1 Corinthians 13.

 

A hireling will devour the spiritual growth and maturity in the life of a believer.  They will abandon you should you be in trouble or struggling spiritually.  They feed off of God's people and it is really sad.  



#10
Шарон

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I think one of the major problems is that many pastors let pride take over, and so they begin to glorify themselves instead of God. Some like that sense of false power...

 

 

Hmm. Yes. I fear that this might be happening with my former pastor. I no longer attend that church, which was a very difficult change as it was my original home church that I grew up in, though the current pastor and one that I speak of was not my 'original' pastor. He is a very proud man, and has admitted to this himself. But I feel that it's progressing...and in the way that you're speaking of. 

 

As for the OP, I too believe it is in reference to what the Bible talks about concerning 'false prophets'. 


Edited by Шарон, 06 February 2014 - 12:34 AM.


#11
Rustyangel

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"I've experienced many problems from those calling themselves prophets or apostles, but are not. But the greatest problems were caused by those calling themselves pastors, but were not."

 

What do you think?

Maybe this will help you.  No such things a Apostles or  Prophets now.  We have the completed word of God.  And to call ones self an Apostle would have physically  had to walk with Jesus.  If you would really like to learn more on this ask our watchman.  He is a Worthy chat moderator and a true Bible scholar. 






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