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Signs and wonders

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"Jesus didn't warn us of prophets. He warned of false prophets. He didn't warn of signs and wonders. He warned of false signs and wonders. Knowing the real helps us to recognize the false. . . ."

 

What do you think?

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By their fruit you will know them

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"Jesus didn't warn us of prophets. He warned of false prophets. He didn't warn of signs and wonders. He warned of false signs and wonders. Knowing the real helps us to recognize the false. . . ."

 

What do you think?

 

I think this is true.  The problem rises when people do not rely on His Spirit when discerning between the true and the false.  As with your other question, I believe the number of false prophets will raise as His day draws near.

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I just wrote on this subject.  I was not sure what the proper forum was, so it is in general discussion, but may be moved.  

The answer is just this;

 

 

John 10:27-28

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

 

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I read an interesting quote:

 

"Jesus didn't warn us of prophets. He warned of false prophets. He didn't warn of signs and wonders. He warned of false signs and wonders. Knowing the real helps us to recognize the false. . . ."

 

What do you think?

Absolutely, knowing the real helps us to recognize the false.

 

Jesus Christ wanted us to know His Word well enough to stay clear of the false.

Over the years I have seen many false signs and wonders coming from those who purport His name as well as from the "world."

 

Mat 24:24-27

(24)  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

(25)  Behold, I have told you before.

(26)  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

(27)  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

I know of two modern day Acts 8 Sorcerer"Simon's" personally and have warned a multitude in our area about them. One of them looks to jump into any church that will have him. Just as in the past, they use sorcery today and bewitch people, claiming it comes from God, when in fact it is Satan.

Just like in the past, one of their main characteristics is that they promote themselves as some "great one." The false humility they initially stand in quickly evaporates...

 

Act 8:9-10

(9)  But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

(10)  To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

 

Folks that get around these two local "Simons" know something spiritual "touched" them. Young believers are often prompted by the Holy Spirit that this is not of God, but because of the spiritual "experience" and not knowing much of the Bible, they often ignore the Holy Spirits promptings, and deem these false signs to be from God.

One such individual described it to me as "at first it felt so terrible" (the Holy Spirit's promoting) "and then it felt so good..." (They gave in, ignored the Holy Spirit, and God's Word...)

 

Pushing aside the falseness of the above, at the same time I have witnessed a few "real" signs over the years.

No man or woman was lifted up in pride, as God Himself was glorified with His Word rightly divided.

 

1Co 12:4-13

(4)  Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

(5)  And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

(6)  And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

(7)  But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

(8)  For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

(9)  To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

(10)  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

(11)  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

(12)  For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

(13)  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

 

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Too many folks are not discerning and take all signs and wonders at face value. There are fakes out there.

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OK, I'm going to shake things up a bit and post the entire quote (notice the ". . ." at the end?).

 

 

Jesus didn't warn us of prophets. He warned of false prophets. He didn't warn of signs and wonders. He warned of false signs and wonders. Knowing the real helps us to recognize the false. For this reason those with little to no fire think all fire is strange fire.

 

 

What do you think of this?

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I think that folks need to use discernment to know real from false and not to accept everything at face value. The magicians of egypt were able to duplicate the miracles of moses for the first couple of them. One should remember that the bereans were praised for comparing what paul said to scripture to see if it was true. Folks really do need to use some skepticism when it comes to preachers, prophets and those who do various signs and wonders. Otherwise how could they separate real from false?

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Sure, but by what standard does one discern the true from the false?

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Scripture. Nothing will contradict the bible. The Holy Spirit will guide us if we are listening. 

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Too many folks are not discerning and take all signs and wonders at face value. There are fakes out there.

Yes,you have to have discernment.

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Scripture. Nothing will contradict the bible. The Holy Spirit will guide us if we are listening. 

 

OK, but people use Scripture to argue opposing sides all the time. So, what does it mean to use Scripture?

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Too many folks are not discerning and take all signs and wonders at face value. There are fakes out there.

Yes,you have to have discernment.

 

Keep in mind that in Matthew and Mark when Jesus himself spake of this he did not use the term false wonders...

 

i'm not sure if it is wise to trying figure out if a wonder is real or fake.....   but where it comes from and who is doing it and why.

 

The Holy Spirit should not let us be deceived if we are paying attention to him..

Is the person pointing to God or himself...   that might be our first question.

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Scripture. Nothing will contradict the bible. The Holy Spirit will guide us if we are listening. 

 

OK, but people use Scripture to argue opposing sides all the time. So, what does it mean to use Scripture?

 

 

Notice the other part, the Holy Spirit will guide us if we are listening. Now I know folks can claim they are listening to Him when they are not. Folks sometimes believe what they want to. Or even listen to lying spirits at times. 

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.....   but where it comes from and who is doing it and why.

 

Great point. Personally, I think this is a key element in the whole issue.

 

Some people discount prophets, signs and wonders right away, mainly those who believe such things have ceased. On the other extreme are those who flock to anyone who prophecies or performs signs and wonders because they believe only God's anointed would be/do such things.

The above quote, I think, was directed at the first group. To the second group, I would point out that Sampson should be good evidence that someone could have God's anointing to do wondrous things, but yet not being very in-tune with God.

So in the end, one shouldn't discount someone who prophecies or someone performing signs and wonders because we don't believe in them - inspect the fruit of the person. Likewise, don't flock after such without question - inspect the fruit of the person.

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By their fruit you will know them

 

 :)

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Sure, but by what standard does one discern the true from the false?

 

Scripture, like Jade said. But there is something else also: Who gets the glory? The Great Physician, or the preacher?

 

In the NT believers immediately gave credit for miracles to God, not themselves. (The healing of the man at the Beautiful Gate comes to mind.) Anyone performing real miracles today should act in a similar manner.

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OK, I'm going to shake things up a bit and post the entire quote (notice the ". . ." at the end?).

 

 

Jesus didn't warn us of prophets. He warned of false prophets. He didn't warn of signs and wonders. He warned of false signs and wonders. Knowing the real helps us to recognize the false. For this reason those with little to no fire think all fire is strange fire.

 

 

What do you think of this?

 

I've been accused of this over the years because I didn't immediately accept something that happened until I had a chance to compare it with Scripture. Most times those making the accusation were looking at things from a "I'm better than you" sort of attitude, but that's just my experience. Others said it in an attempt to shut down discussion, argument, or even asking legitimate questions. That sort of thing doesn't bother me, because if I can't match it with the Bible, then it either gets tossed -- or put on the shelf until later, depending on how the Lord leads. Sometimes the light of understanding can take awhile, and I try to avoid throwing out the baby with the bath water . . . :whistling:

 

Simple fact is there are false teachers and false prophets out there and it pays to be cautious.

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Our modern prophets do not typically resemble the prophets that God sent in Scripture.  Being a prophet was not an attractive vocation because most of the time, with the exception of John the Baptist, prophets were sent by God when something was wrong, judgment was about to fall and they had bad news. That's one reason they were murdered.  Today,'s prophets are rather vague in their "prophecies" where God's prophets were far more specific and at times, their propheces were accompanied with signs and wonders, but only to prove that they were indeed God's mouth piece, not to dazzle the crowd.

 

One needs to be very, very, very, very careful when presenting himself as a prophet of God. Standing in the office of a prophet means that if one thing you say didn't come from God, you will stand to account for it.   You better double check and check again and pray the whole way through before speaking anything as a "word from the Lord."

 

Leonard Ravenhill provides a good profile of a prophet   http://www.ravenhill.org/prophet.htm

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My 2 cents....

 

In my view, signs and wonders are usually for the benefit of the unsaved.  

 

Prophesy, which I do not view as the same thing as a sign and wonder, has changed from the OT to the NT. In the OT, the common everyday person did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, or Holy Spirit revelation. God communicated thru His prophets to the common person. How was a common person to decide if a prophet was a prophet of God? There was usually a short term prophesy and a long term prophesy. If the short term prophesy was observed to be true (came about), that was part of the validation. Also, if the prophet pointed to the One True God, they were considered a prophet of God, and if they did not point to the One True God, then they were not a prophet of God, but a false prophet.

 

In the NT, saints have the Holy Spirit and can hear from God, so do not need a prophet to instruct them in the same way as the OT. If the prophesy is personal, the Holy Spirit will have revealed to the person directly, and the prophesy will be a conformation, and of course would not go against scripture.  If the prophesy is to the unsaved, there should be a near term prophesy which is a validation of the long term prophesy, and of course, both should point to the One True God and not contradict scripture.      

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Simple fact is there are false teachers and false prophets out there and it pays to be cautious.

 

 

 

I agree 100%

 

I believe that if there are any modern prophets, they should only speak words from the Lord as He tells them too.

 

If they are in error at all in that, then are they truly prophets of God? 

 

The bible says 100% accurate or they are not from Him.

Too many disregard this and claim to be prophets of God when they are in error.

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The term prophecy(to speak forth God's words), as a gift may be an inspired sermon that produces fruit in peoples lives. I believe a lot of people have this gift, but that does not make them a prophet. I have yet to know of a true prophet of God today who claims to be one.. But Billy Graham might come close to actually being one. Corrie ten Boom also made a few predictions about America that have already come to pass that at the time seemed improbable, such as the rise of the occult. Neither persons claimed they were prophets that I know of.

I totally agree that signs and wonders are not to be used to authenticate that a person is from God. We are to be prepared for the coming deception and the deceiver of the the brethern.

Usually the true people of God by which miracles are done are totally in awe and know for a fact that they had very little to do with it. The miracles themselves give God glory and reveal His character. The repairing of a marriage demonstrates that God has ordained marriage and uses it to reveal His love for the church. On the other hand, providing gold fillings such as in the "Toronto Experience" does nothing to reveal God's character. In fact it seems materialistic. As said, the Bible shows no such miracle. It is certainly not a greater miracle than the salvation of souls according to God's value system of treasures in heaven. (I have heard people use the verse that "greater things than these shall you do" in defense of the changing teeth fillings to gold thing.) We have to evaluate these things with God's value system, not the world's.

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