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Another contradiction?

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#1
r3alchild

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another. Here is a new problem I found when pairing up scripture today.

In this verse you will see that jesus says that satan does not cast out satan because he would be working against himself and if he did his kingdom would not stand.

(Matthew 12:26
New International Version (NIV)
26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?)

We know jesus said this because some people were saying he casts out demons by satan.

When I read that verse what I understand is that satan does not cast out himself or he would limit his power and his kingdom would fall.

But then theres always some other verse that seems to contradict the current one. This is also what jesus said.

(Matthew 7 v 21
New International Version (NIV)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’)

Here we see jesus saying there will be people who drove out satan in his name who were not gods people and will be rejected by christ on judgment day. As far as I understand the doctrines of the bible you are either a believer or a non believer and if a non believer or false believer peforms a miracles then their power to peform it comes from satan not god.

However in matthew 12 v 26 jesus clearly says satan wouldnt drive out himself because his kingdom would not stand but he claims the opposite when in matthew 7 v 22 he states that false believers have cast out demons. (and by what power?)

So for now I will leave it up to the forum to correct my thinking if in fact I am seeing these verses wrong.

Edited by r3alchild, 09 February 2014 - 01:41 AM.


#2
OneLight

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Demons don't obey a person because they are a Christian or not, but because of the authority in the name of Jesus. There is no contradiction between the two passages.

#3
r3alchild

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Demons don't obey a person because they are a Christian or not, but because of the authority in the name of Jesus. There is no contradiction between the two passages.

So your saying that the name of jesus itself can be used to cast out satan by anyone? thats a fair answer but I need to process that for a bit. Ok ill add to this now. if your saying that jesus name carrys weight alone then your saying it does without faith, is this true that jesus name can cast out satan without faith. What about the men who used the name of jesus unwortherly and were beaten and stripped naked. Do you need no authority to use jesus name?


Edited by r3alchild, 09 February 2014 - 03:18 AM.


#4
His_disciple3

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2 Cor 11:14-15
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness
; whose end shall be according to their works.
KJV
in the end times the Anti-Christ will show signs and wonders and by doing so, will deceive many. this two sets of verses you show do not contradict but work hand and hand. the kingdom of satan will fall, and Jesus says it must be divided before it can fall. in the end times satan ministers will be casting out demons, they will do this so that they can deceive others that they are from God. but by doing so they will be dividing their own kingdom, for destruction.

#5
1x1is1

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I would submit that Jesus meant what He said pertaining to satan.  satan is not able to cast himself out.  That would allow for others to cast out demons by the name of Jesus.  I don't think that people are possessed by satan, only demons.  So even satan could cast out demos in order to trick people.

 

And what is up with spell check anyway......perhaps santan gave spell check authority to demand a capital S in the word satan.  I won't do it.  Not even if I fail an exam.  It's bad enough that I have to look at all the satan uses in this post to be underlined in red.  Is that weird?   :lightbulb2:  



#6
r3alchild

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I would submit that Jesus meant what He said pertaining to satan.  satan is not able to cast himself out.  That would allow for others to cast out demons by the name of Jesus.  I don't think that people are possessed by satan, only demons.  So even satan could cast out demos in order to trick people.

 

And what is up with spell check anyway......perhaps santan gave spell check authority to demand a capital S in the word satan.  I won't do it.  Not even if I fail an exam.  It's bad enough that I have to look at all the satan uses in this post to be underlined in red.  Is that weird?   :lightbulb2:  

Or maybe make it look like demons have been cast out. I know about spell check strange hey.



#7
Fez

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I would submit that Jesus meant what He said pertaining to satan.  satan is not able to cast himself out.  That would allow for others to cast out demons by the name of Jesus.  I don't think that people are possessed by satan, only demons.  So even satan could cast out demos in order to trick people.

 

And what is up with spell check anyway......perhaps santan gave spell check authority to demand a capital S in the word satan.  I won't do it.  Not even if I fail an exam.  It's bad enough that I have to look at all the satan uses in this post to be underlined in red.  Is that weird?   :lightbulb2:  

Or maybe make it look like demons have been cast out. I know about spell check strange hey.

 

Or maybe make it look like demons have been cast out. 

 

Please qualify this statement with an explanation. Elucidate if you will....



#8
kwikphilly

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Blessings 1x1is1

     Man of my own heart.....I feel exactly the same way,I would not capitalize satan,lucifer or anything else demonic & ya bet God & anything of Him is always capitalized.......thank you,I have noticed that in your posts & always say to myself"Bravo"!!!!!LOL

      As for the OP & the compari9son of the two Scriptures,,,,,,,,,,they are a totally different content & do not contradict each other because in Matthew 7,,,,our Lord is speaking about false prophets & teachers ,much like many of the televangelists we see nowadays......it is the Power of the Holy Spirit that casts out demons & none other...........many people would like to take the credit & not give the Glory to God,they can still have the anointing even after they have transgressed.....we see this in Scripture

     I will come back & explain better but I just realized I am running late for church.........so forgive me but I must go,God bless you!

                                                                                                                                        With love,in Christ-Kwik



#9
r3alchild

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I would submit that Jesus meant what He said pertaining to satan.  satan is not able to cast himself out.  That would allow for others to cast out demons by the name of Jesus.  I don't think that people are possessed by satan, only demons.  So even satan could cast out demos in order to trick people.

 

And what is up with spell check anyway......perhaps santan gave spell check authority to demand a capital S in the word satan.  I won't do it.  Not even if I fail an exam.  It's bad enough that I have to look at all the satan uses in this post to be underlined in red.  Is that weird?   :lightbulb2:  

Or maybe make it look like demons have been cast out. I know about spell check strange hey.

 

Or maybe make it look like demons have been cast out. 

 

Please qualify this statement with an explanation. Elucidate if you will....

 

what im saying is maybe satan can fake casting out demons.



#10
OneLight

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what im saying is maybe satan can fake casting out demons.


Satan can fake wall he wants, but those who have the Holy Spirit know the truth.

Have you considered the words of Jesus in Mark 9:29 when he said “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.”? Why would Jesus indicate prayer and fasting to be a key element? I believe it is to humble the person, to fill them with the Holy Spirit and to allow Jesus to work His will through them. Humility is often the key we need to access His will in our lives so we can be a tool He uses with others.

#11
nebula

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another.

 

I was listening to a talk given by a rabbi a few years ago at my school (we have a Jewish Student Union that would host speakers concerning various topics). I do not recall what the message was about. However, in the course of things, he mentioned something poignant.

 

The rabbis have a term for such incidences in the Scriptures, where one statement seems to contradict another. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the term. However, what they have discovered with this is thus:

 

In working out the contradiction and finding the solution, one discovers a new truth about God that was hidden within the text. That is, when you find the key that unifies the contradictions, you discover a new truth.

 

He gave an example, and unfortunately, I can't recall the example either. I wish I could because it would help you understand all this.

 

Anyway, I hope you take this to heart as you piece through the contradictions.



#12
OakWood

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What's wrong with capitalising the word Satan? There is only one Satan.

To capitalise a word is to show that it is unique or to give it proper-noun status. It's the difference between 'a' something and 'the' something. So the word 'god' means any god including false gods, whereas the word 'God' means 'the God' of which there is only one.

It is not showing respect to Satan to capitalise his name. Capitalising can be both negative and positive. Capatilising denotes uniqueness, a title or a name. Nobody seems to complain if we capitalise 'herod' or 'judas', so why complain if we capitalise 'satan' or 'lucifer'?

However, it is disrespectful to God if we don't capitalise his name, because he too is unique.

Christians who are afraid to capitalise the name Lucifer are being superstitious, and Christians are not meant to be superstitious.

 

 

Talking of which, I walked under a ladder the other day, because I am not superstitious. :laughing:



#13
r3alchild

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another.

 

I was listening to a talk given by a rabbi a few years ago at my school (we have a Jewish Student Union that would host speakers concerning various topics). I do not recall what the message was about. However, in the course of things, he mentioned something poignant.

 

The rabbis have a term for such incidences in the Scriptures, where one statement seems to contradict another. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the term. However, what they have discovered with this is thus:

 

In working out the contradiction and finding the solution, one discovers a new truth about God that was hidden within the text. That is, when you find the key that unifies the contradictions, you discover a new truth.

 

He gave an example, and unfortunately, I can't recall the example either. I wish I could because it would help you understand all this.

 

Anyway, I hope you take this to heart as you piece through the contradictions.

 

Yes I had to figure that method out very quickly when I  read the bible. But what does it matter if most christians today are yelling at you THE BIBLE IS THE PERFECT WORD OF GOD AND THERES NOT ONE CONTRADICTIONS. I knew this very old christian woman and she was a little liberal with some things and she believed that evolution was gods way of making the human race, so I asked her well was there still a adam and eve who started the human race and she couldnt say no. She had to hold on to the genesis story to save face but at the same time she showed that she knew nothing about evolution. 4 weeks later she died.



#14
Fez

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another.

 

I was listening to a talk given by a rabbi a few years ago at my school (we have a Jewish Student Union that would host speakers concerning various topics). I do not recall what the message was about. However, in the course of things, he mentioned something poignant.

 

The rabbis have a term for such incidences in the Scriptures, where one statement seems to contradict another. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the term. However, what they have discovered with this is thus:

 

In working out the contradiction and finding the solution, one discovers a new truth about God that was hidden within the text. That is, when you find the key that unifies the contradictions, you discover a new truth.

 

He gave an example, and unfortunately, I can't recall the example either. I wish I could because it would help you understand all this.

 

Anyway, I hope you take this to heart as you piece through the contradictions.

 

Yes I had to figure that method out very quickly when I  read the bible. But what does it matter if most christians today are yelling at you THE BIBLE IS THE PERFECT WORD OF GOD AND THERES NOT ONE CONTRADICTIONS. I knew this very old christian woman and she was a little liberal with some things and she believed that evolution was gods way of making the human race, so I asked her well was there still a adam and eve who started the human race and she couldnt say no. She had to hold on to the genesis story to save face but at the same time she showed that she knew nothing about evolution. 4 weeks later she died.

 

Adam and Eve never started the human race, God created us.

 

What do you understand of evolution? i would be interested to know why it might have affected your walk?



#15
shiloh357

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another. Here is a new problem I found when pairing up scripture today.

In this verse you will see that jesus says that satan does not cast out satan because he would be working against himself and if he did his kingdom would not stand.

(Matthew 12:26
New International Version (NIV)
26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?)

We know jesus said this because some people were saying he casts out demons by satan.

When I read that verse what I understand is that satan does not cast out himself or he would limit his power and his kingdom would fall.

But then theres always some other verse that seems to contradict the current one. This is also what jesus said.

(Matthew 7 v 21
New International Version (NIV)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’)

Here we see jesus saying there will be people who drove out satan in his name who were not gods people and will be rejected by christ on judgment day. As far as I understand the doctrines of the bible you are either a believer or a non believer and if a non believer or false believer peforms a miracles then their power to peform it comes from satan not god.

However in matthew 12 v 26 jesus clearly says satan wouldnt drive out himself because his kingdom would not stand but he claims the opposite when in matthew 7 v 22 he states that false believers have cast out demons. (and by what power?)

So for now I will leave it up to the forum to correct my thinking if in fact I am seeing these verses wrong.

In context. Matt. 7:21 is talking about false prophets.  These were not genuine believers but those who went around professing to be what they were not.   They are appealing to Jesus on the same grounds that they appealed to those they were leading astray.   Didn't we do mighty miracles in your Name???    The answer to the question based on Jesus' response is "No, you didn't.  Now depart from me."    They tried to claim that they didn't by His power, but their claim was false.  It shows that even false prophets can deceive themselves.



#16
other one

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What's wrong with capitalising the word Satan? There is only one Satan.

To capitalise a word is to show that it is unique or to give it proper-noun status. It's the difference between 'a' something and 'the' something. So the word 'god' means any god including false gods, whereas the word 'God' means 'the God' of which there is only one.

It is not showing respect to Satan to capitalise his name. Capitalising can be both negative and positive. Capatilising denotes uniqueness, a title or a name. Nobody seems to complain if we capitalise 'herod' or 'judas', so why complain if we capitalise 'satan' or 'lucifer'?

However, it is disrespectful to God if we don't capitalise his name, because he too is unique.

Christians who are afraid to capitalise the name Lucifer are being superstitious, and Christians are not meant to be superstitious.

 

 

Talking of which, I walked under a ladder the other day, because I am not superstitious. :laughing:

the last time I did that the guy painting dropped a brush on my shoulder...   there's common sense about that superstition  LoL.



#17
r3alchild

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another. Here is a new problem I found when pairing up scripture today.

In this verse you will see that jesus says that satan does not cast out satan because he would be working against himself and if he did his kingdom would not stand.

(Matthew 12:26
New International Version (NIV)
26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?)

We know jesus said this because some people were saying he casts out demons by satan.

When I read that verse what I understand is that satan does not cast out himself or he would limit his power and his kingdom would fall.

But then theres always some other verse that seems to contradict the current one. This is also what jesus said.

(Matthew 7 v 21
New International Version (NIV)
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’)

Here we see jesus saying there will be people who drove out satan in his name who were not gods people and will be rejected by christ on judgment day. As far as I understand the doctrines of the bible you are either a believer or a non believer and if a non believer or false believer peforms a miracles then their power to peform it comes from satan not god.

However in matthew 12 v 26 jesus clearly says satan wouldnt drive out himself because his kingdom would not stand but he claims the opposite when in matthew 7 v 22 he states that false believers have cast out demons. (and by what power?)

So for now I will leave it up to the forum to correct my thinking if in fact I am seeing these verses wrong.

In context. Matt. 7:21 is talking about false prophets.  These were not genuine believers but those who went around professing to be what they were not.   They are appealing to Jesus on the same grounds that they appealed to those they were leading astray.   Didn't we do mighty miracles in your Name???    The answer to the question based on Jesus' response is "No, you didn't.  Now depart from me."    They tried to claim that they didn't by His power, but their claim was false.  It shows that even false prophets can deceive themselves.

 

Yes I like this response, because it suggest false believers did nothing at all. But I read the verse over to be sure of your answer but jesus does no say (no you didnt) although it might be implied.



#18
r3alchild

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another.

 

I was listening to a talk given by a rabbi a few years ago at my school (we have a Jewish Student Union that would host speakers concerning various topics). I do not recall what the message was about. However, in the course of things, he mentioned something poignant.

 

The rabbis have a term for such incidences in the Scriptures, where one statement seems to contradict another. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the term. However, what they have discovered with this is thus:

 

In working out the contradiction and finding the solution, one discovers a new truth about God that was hidden within the text. That is, when you find the key that unifies the contradictions, you discover a new truth.

 

He gave an example, and unfortunately, I can't recall the example either. I wish I could because it would help you understand all this.

 

Anyway, I hope you take this to heart as you piece through the contradictions.

 

Yes I had to figure that method out very quickly when I  read the bible. But what does it matter if most christians today are yelling at you THE BIBLE IS THE PERFECT WORD OF GOD AND THERES NOT ONE CONTRADICTIONS. I knew this very old christian woman and she was a little liberal with some things and she believed that evolution was gods way of making the human race, so I asked her well was there still a adam and eve who started the human race and she couldnt say no. She had to hold on to the genesis story to save face but at the same time she showed that she knew nothing about evolution. 4 weeks later she died.

 

Adam and Eve never started the human race, God created us.

 

What do you understand of evolution? i would be interested to know why it might have affected your walk?

 

What I understand is that I never once looked up the meaning of the word theory the 13 years I was a christian and after I did I was pretty sore at all those christians who told me (its only a theory) as for my walk with god, he, his bible and his people couldnt answer the high demand of questions I was having once I was exposed to evolution.


Edited by r3alchild, 09 February 2014 - 07:03 PM.


#19
shiloh357

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Yes I like this response, because it suggest false believers did nothing at all. But I read the verse over to be sure of your answer but jesus does no say (no you didnt) although it might be implied.

 

I think it is strongly implied.  I was trying to communicate the essence of Jesus' response. I should have been clearer on that.   They were, as false prophets used to being able to hook people into their deception.  And the text seems to indicate that these people try the same thing on Jesus and it doesn't work.   Jesus, in essence tells them, "Nothing you have done was done in my Name.   I never knew you.  Depart from me."
 



#20
shiloh357

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The more I analyze and think about the bible the more I seem to find one scripture not pair with another.

 

I was listening to a talk given by a rabbi a few years ago at my school (we have a Jewish Student Union that would host speakers concerning various topics). I do not recall what the message was about. However, in the course of things, he mentioned something poignant.

 

The rabbis have a term for such incidences in the Scriptures, where one statement seems to contradict another. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the term. However, what they have discovered with this is thus:

 

In working out the contradiction and finding the solution, one discovers a new truth about God that was hidden within the text. That is, when you find the key that unifies the contradictions, you discover a new truth.

 

He gave an example, and unfortunately, I can't recall the example either. I wish I could because it would help you understand all this.

 

Anyway, I hope you take this to heart as you piece through the contradictions.

 

Yes I had to figure that method out very quickly when I  read the bible. But what does it matter if most christians today are yelling at you THE BIBLE IS THE PERFECT WORD OF GOD AND THERES NOT ONE CONTRADICTIONS. I knew this very old christian woman and she was a little liberal with some things and she believed that evolution was gods way of making the human race, so I asked her well was there still a adam and eve who started the human race and she couldnt say no. She had to hold on to the genesis story to save face but at the same time she showed that she knew nothing about evolution. 4 weeks later she died.

 

Adam and Eve never started the human race, God created us.

 

What do you understand of evolution? i would be interested to know why it might have affected your walk?

 

What I understand is that I never once looked up the meaning of the word theory the 13 years I was a christian and after I did I was pretty sore at all those christians who told me (its only a theory) as for my walk with god, he, his bible and his people couldnt answer the high demand of questions I was having once I was exposed to evolution.

 

So it was your exposure to evolution that played a part in your deconversion from Christianity?






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