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Longevity in Genesis

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#1
kwikphilly

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Blessings Worthy Family!!!

   I read an interesting article on the topic of the longevity in Genesis.......just thought I would share this with all of you & get your comments........I have my own thoughts but I will save them for later.......

God bless you all & Praise & Glory to God

 

Part 1: Visitor's Comments

Longevity in Genesis

Many Christians have assumed that the reason for the dramatic decrease in human life spans after the flood was due to environmental factors like increased solar radiation, eating meat, weather changes, and even disease. However, the genealogical data given to us in Genesis makes such a conclusion very unlikely for the following reasons:

Noah lived to be 950 years of age and lived nearly 40% of his life AFTER the flood. Noah lived to see the 75th birthday of Abraham! Abraham was his great great great great great great great great grandson. If Noah was exposed to the same environmental factors as the next 9 generations then he would have begun to age more rapidly as soon as the flood was over.
If one looks at the genealogies of Genesis diagrammed as a timeline one discovers that life span decreased by generation, not by date. This distinction is hard to catch, but the implications are dramatic. If an environmental factor were causing the life spans to decrease, then people would have started aging more rapidly altogether regardless of their generation.
Today, avoiding solar radiation, avoiding meat, living indoors, and maintaining a disease-free environment does not increase human life span. In fact, many diseases are associated with vegetarianism and too little exposure to the sun.

But enough of the evidence against environmental factors. Is there an alternative?

Yes, as any student of Population Genetics will tell you, a dramatic decrease in population size is always accompanied by a loss of genetic diversity. This is known as a "population bottleneck". For example, God may have originally given humanity 75 different genes for hair color, but we don't have that many now. This can happen because parents only pass on 50% of their genetic information to each child. Some genes simply die with their possessors.

During the flood, the human population was reduced to only 5 genetically unique individuals!!! (Noah's children don't count because they could not possess any genes their parent's did not.) and with each successive generation some genes simply failed to survive.

As the population grew, however, the amount lost with each generation decreased. Eventually the amount of genetic loss stabilized as the population became very large.

Genetic loss is associated with a loss of fitness. We see it, in the Biblical record, as a loss of life span by generation. This view is supported by two pieces of evidence:

1) Earlier generations were outliving many of their descendants.
2) In modern times, the effects of population bottlenecks on animal species match what happened to humanity after the flood.

Further speculation into the reason for God giving us animals to eat after the flood leads me to conclude that the genetic loss caused by the population bottleneck may have included the ability to manufacture essential nutrients from the foods we were previously given to eat.

For example, if our bodies could manufacture antioxidants, essential fatty acids, all the amino acids, and various other nutrients from vegetable matter, then we wouldn't need to eat animals. But as most vegetarians discover, we cannot limit our diets to vegetables without suffering severe deficiencies. God may have given animals as food in anticipation of this lost capacity.

(The visitor who wrote the above article invites you to "feel free to send comments and questions to david@imaxx.net" )

Part 2: Quote of Biblebell's write-up that is discussed by the above visitor comments
Many people ask, "Why did the people in Genesis live so long?" Perhaps the better question would be, "Why do people die at all?"

God did not create people to die. Had sin not entered the world, people would have lived forever. (Gen 2.17, 3.19; Rom 5.12)

Two reasons why life spans gradually decreased are...

1) Before the flood, the earth was surrounded by a shell of ice. You can read about its origin at <http://www.biblebell...creation.html>.

This shell of ice protected the earth's inhabitants from the harmful radiation that emanates from the sun and other bodies in outer space.
At the time of the flood, "the windows of heaven were opened" whereby God collapsed the ice shell onto the earth as a rainfall lasting 40 days and nights. (Gen 7.10-12)
Following this flood, the earth was no longer protected by the shell of ice, so radiation began to cause genetic damage in the human race. This genetic damage progressed as it passed on from generation to generation, thus causing life spans to decrease.


2) Before the flood, all people and animals were herbivores (they ate only vegetables, NO meat) -- Gen 1.29-30.

After the flood, people and animals became flesh eaters -- Gen 9.3-6. (In the future Millennium, God will reinstate the herbivorous nature of His creatures - Isaiah 11.6-9)
Among the animals that became flesh eaters were those we call bacteria and viruses. These microscopic & sub-microscopic animals also began feeding on flesh. Thus began "illness" & this, too, shortened human life spans.

When ordaining the flood of Noah, God announced that the life expectancy of humans would almost immediately be reduced to 120 years (Gen 6.3). In Psalm 90.10, the life expectancy was further reduced to "threescore and ten years" -- 70 years of age.

 

This commentary was posted on Biblebell.org

                                                                                            With love,in Christ-Kwik



#2
FresnoJoe

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Amen~!



#3
shiloh357

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When ordaining the flood of Noah, God announced that the life expectancy of humans would almost immediately be reduced to 120 years (Gen 6.3)

 

That was not concerning the lifespan of human beings.  120 years was the deadline before mankind would be judged by the flood.  What that verse is saying in context is that 120 years had been given by God as the window of time before God was going to send the flood.  Presumably, this was given as an opportunity to repent, though not explicitly stated.   God's judgments never fall immediate or rashly.  God always provides ample time for repentence before judgment fell. 



#4
kwikphilly

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Blessings Shiloh...

      I agree & have always understood that timeline to be exactly as you have so eloquently translated it......the Hebrew translation seems to say it with much more clarity........I have not studied Hebrew but I do have a Hebrew/English Torah that was gifted to me from a dear friend,his grandmother presented it to him at his Bar-Mitzvah & I have learned so much from reading it throughout  the years

      I was also surprised by this fellows interpretation of the "ice" shell.............interesting,I found it interesting.

                                                                                                                               With love,in Christ-Kwik



#5
walkonwater

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In The scripture pertaining to Noah bringing the animals into the ark, In Genesis 7:2&3   Of every "clean beast" thou shalt take to thee by sevens, wasn't the reason they were called clean was because of not only were they used as sacrifices for sin but also for meat?  I know that the animal sacrifices meant the innocent blood to cover the guilty blood, which represented Jesus innocent blood that covers our guilty blood, "blood meaning life."  Otherwise I don't understand why they were called "clean beast."  What made them considered clean? I know that Abels offering to the Lord of the firstlings of his flock(sacrificial lamb) represents the salvation of Jesus, He's our lamb slain(the cross) before the foundation of the world.  I remember, before I could see Gods words, i had seen pictures of animals going into the ark and they were only in twos of unclean beasts, never had i seen where there were 7 of the clean beasts also, and yes it does say they went in 2 by 2, male and female, but with the clean beasts they went in 2 by 2, in sevens.   I don't even know why this is on my mind...lol, just curious i guess. :mgcheerful:



#6
nebula

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Yes, as any student of Population Genetics will tell you, a dramatic decrease in population size is always accompanied by a loss of genetic diversity. This is known as a "population bottleneck". For example, God may have originally given humanity 75 different genes for hair color, but we don't have that many now. This can happen because parents only pass on 50% of their genetic information to each child. Some genes simply die with their possessors.

 

During the flood, the human population was reduced to only 5 genetically unique individuals!!! (Noah's children don't count because they could not possess any genes their parent's did not.) and with each successive generation some genes simply failed to survive.

 

Problem: According to the Bible, the human race began with a bottleneck of 2 people. That's less than the "5 genetically unique individuals" from the flood.



#7
kwikphilly

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Blessings walkonwater,

       God bless you this morning & Praise the Lord for yet,another day!For many this has been a contraversial issue & of course there are those that would like to go so far as to say it is a contradiction in Gods Word because only later in Leviticus chapter 11 is the sacrifice of animals explained  to Moses by God & there is no specific mention of it before that.....but I do believe God revealed that part of Mosaic law to Noah because in the 7th chapter of Genesis God tells Noah to ALSO bring 7(or 7 pairs) of every kind of CLEAN animal in addition to the pairs of every kind(& of course the birds)and He also adds that the reason is to keep these various kinds alive throughout the Earth.....I think it is very clear that these are the sacrificial animals & the sevens were to ensure that they would not become extinct by slaughter

     We can trust God to never lie or contradict His very own Word,so for me this is not an issue................Praise & Glory to God!

                                                                                                                 With love,in Christ-Kwik



#8
JohnDB

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There are many things that God did and does that may puzzle some or most folks. Why did Jesus spit on the eyes of the blind man (one account says he spit in the dirt and made mud and smeared it on his eyes which I think is the full account to the other abbreviated version since spitting directly on someone was considered extremely offensive then and today too for that matter). Why did God not allow man to develop satellite communications  when Jesus came to better spread the Gospel... ? etc... There are very good reasons that do not occur to most folks (which is why the acts of God seem so curious to them). I try to remember when something in scripture seems odd, it is most likely I do not have enough information, and I leave it at that in faith trusting God or I track down an answer via the Holy Spirit lead scripture search. And if still unenlightened, accepting in faith (trust) that the Lord knows what he is doing and it is not a matter of my curiosity or ego being satisfied on the subject.

 

It took me years to come to this place. Sadly.

 

That being said, I have crossed swords with no less than half the staff at the Institute for Creation research (in person and online) when they were home based in Santee, Ca (near San Diego) on the upper vapor canopy that the Bible describes in Genesis 1. Surprisingly, ICR does not support the theory that there was a worldwide vapor canopy enveloping the planet. I do not pooh pooh education (obviously) I do say beware programming and indoctrination by whoever has sway over the education system. ICR has proven to be very aware of this philosophy and claimed to share it. Which is why I was so surprised by the way they accepted the education / science establishment's reasons for not believing Earth had a vapor canopy stating that it could not have had one (and gives atmosphere entry arguments involving heat based on reentry stats of the extremely small vehicles and whatnot that we've sent into space compared to a worldwide collapse of trillions of gallons of water vapor... I know, right?)...

 

The canopy theory is not far fetched when you consider that Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune all have canopies of whatever gas / liquid in abundance the have. 

 

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

Genesis 1:6-8 (NIV)
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.”
7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so.
8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

 

Based on several texts throughout scripture this can be shown to be a viable interpretation of heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2-4 for one).

 

~~~~~~~~WATER~~~~~~~~~~~

::::::::::::::::::SKY::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

~~~WATER~LAND~WATER~~~

 

The theories of such a vast amount of water crashing down into the atmosphere heating and cooling itself could account for the so-called ice age(s), where some of the water fell as water and some as ice and the weight of both broke up the tectonic plates sending them sprawling and spinning around the globe as the subterranean vaults of water burst open adding to the chaos. What strikes me as most miraculous  was the relatively smooth / calm ride the ark had in this unimaginable chaos... God's protective hand prevented it and all its passengers from being ground down to pulp...

 

You will recall most who lived to be any age at all after the deluge had eye problems and blindness. This would be perfectly predictable if humanities eyesight was more sensitive than today since before the flood solar radiation (daylight) has to filter through so much cloud cover. And if you read carefully the text, the lights in the sky are not described as being round or spherical but prominent (one to govern the day and one to govern the night and the stars too which to the antediluvian world must have appeared more light bright patches in the surrounding cloudy sky with streaming arrays than the spheres and pinpoints we can make out today.

 

So, as the article and many other sources say, under those conditions, it is not surprising that men and animals lived longer and certain reptiles which never stop growing grew to enormous (dinosaur) size in the course of an average 900 year life span. Many of the so called primates / alleged predecessors of the human race (the ones that are not outright frauds, that is) are extinct primates and extremely old humans rather than some evolutionary previous species to man (as the education science establishment preaches the gospel of as though it were fact). That is their (blind faith) religion after all.

 

The fuel that feeds their fiery fury is to disprove the existence of God at all costs and a major way to do so (in their minds) is to disprove the Bible or call it into question or at least raise as much doubt in as many people as possible.

 

This is one of the major reasons I have been trying to get Christians back to submitting to biblical authority. For when we stray from that absolute authority the traditions of men (which nullify the word of God) take over. And where the traditions of men contradict the facts of life, physics, and the traditions of men held by others... we give even more fuel to those who try to disprove God.



#9
JohnDB

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The first moon landing expected a much greater depth in lunar dust than encountered (which would be expected in a multi million / billion year old moon). IMHO this one thing is why the scientific community has not made a greater effort to shut down the growing doubts that there ever was a moon landing and that it was not a Hollywood stun in some studio somewhere).

 

The sun is firing itself by nuclear fusion (or is it fission? I am so rusty on this) where it burns down toward its core... meaning if you backdate the sun to millions or billions of years it was bigger than the orbit of earth...

 

There are so very many evidences that Ken Ham was telling the truth and Bill Nye was spouting the blind religious teaching of atheists and compromised believers in God... in their recent debate.

 

Interesting, Nye's peers assail him for giving Ken Ham a platform to "teach his archaic beliefs..." 

 

In other words, the "in the know" people are scared to let Ken Ham speak in a public platform of this size...

 

In olden days their kind just covered their ears and yelled at the top of their lungs to drown out the truth and facts they could not deny...

 

Our educators,

 

the brilliant scientists

 

the "watch dog" media...

 

index.jpg

 

And they call us backward and antiquated and archaic...

 

These are who poisoned most of us and who want to poison your children and turned them into godless metro-sexual drones...



#10
nebula

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The canopy theory is not far fetched when you consider that Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune all have canopies of whatever gas / liquid in abundance the have.


Technical detail, but before using this claim, you need to consider that the gas giant planets have that gas "canopy" on account of the much colder temperatures they exist in.



#11
other one

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Interesting to me that Abraham was 58 years old when Noah died, but Shem lived about 35 years longer than Abraham.

 

Jacob was 48 years old when Shem died...



#12
JohnDB

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The canopy theory is not far fetched when you consider that Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune all have canopies of whatever gas / liquid in abundance the have.


Technical detail, but before using this claim, you need to consider that the gas giant planets have that gas "canopy" on account of the much colder temperatures they exist in.

 

 

Grasping after straws...

 

Space is cold...

 

Care to guess the temp 100 miles above earth???



#13
JohnDB

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Interesting to me that Abraham was 58 years old when Noah died, but Shem lived about 35 years longer than Abraham.

 

Jacob was 48 years old when Shem died...

 

Yes a chart of the generations of genesis 10 is cool to look at.

 

unnamed.jpg



#14
nebula

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The canopy theory is not far fetched when you consider that Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune all have canopies of whatever gas / liquid in abundance the have.


Technical detail, but before using this claim, you need to consider that the gas giant planets have that gas "canopy" on account of the much colder temperatures they exist in.

 

Grasping after straws...

 

Space is cold...

 

Care to guess the temp 100 miles above earth???

 

No, I was not grasping for straws.

And no, I was not trying to discredit your theory.

I was simply pointing out a technicality that you needed to consider for this part of the presentation.

 

What I mentioned was Astronomy 101 basics. It is much more cold in the outer reaches of the solar system then the region Earth is in. And that cold contributes to the kinds of gassy atmospheres they have.



#15
FresnoJoe

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In The scripture pertaining to Noah bringing the animals into the ark, In Genesis 7:2&3   Of every "clean beast" thou shalt take to thee by sevens, wasn't the reason they were called clean was because of not only were they used as sacrifices for sin but also for meat? 

 

I know that the animal sacrifices meant the innocent blood to cover the guilty blood, which represented Jesus innocent blood that covers our guilty blood, "blood meaning life." 

 

Otherwise I don't understand why they were called "clean beast." 

 

What made them considered clean?

 

I know that Abels offering to the Lord of the firstlings of his flock(sacrificial lamb) represents the salvation of Jesus, He's our lamb slain(the cross) before the foundation of the world. 

 

I remember, before I could see Gods words, i had seen pictures of animals going into the ark and they were only in twos of unclean beasts, never had i seen where there were 7 of the clean beasts also, and yes it does say they went in 2 by 2, male and female, but with the clean beasts they went in 2 by 2, in sevens.  

 

I don't even know why this is on my mind...lol, just curious i guess. :mgcheerful:

:thumbsup:

 

Beloved You Are Correct

 

Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Genesis 7:2

 

It Was Sacrifice

 

And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Genesis 8:20

 

And To Keep The LORD's Holy People

 

For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy;

 

for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

 

This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

 

To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. Leviticus 11:44-47

 

Holy (Separate) Unto Him

 

You are to be holy to me because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own. Leviticus 20:26

 

~

 

And Why Should A Hollywood That Uses Men Like Charlton Heston As Their Great Moses

 

(Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.) Numbers 12:3 (NIV)

 

Ever Be Expected To Always Get It Right About God's Word

 

~

 

Think Adam And Eve Will Ever Pack A Picnic Basket

 

And Ride With Buddy On The Dinosaur Train

 

I Doubt Dr. Scott the Paleontologist

 

Would Ever Stand For It, lol



#16
other one

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Interesting to me that Abraham was 58 years old when Noah died, but Shem lived about 35 years longer than Abraham.

 

Jacob was 48 years old when Shem died...

 

Yes a chart of the generations of genesis 10 is cool to look at.

 

unnamed.jpg

 

Interesting picture.....   where'd you get it.



#17
FresnoJoe

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The canopy theory is not far fetched when you consider....

 

:thumbsup:

 

And Tule Fog Too

 

When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground— Genesis 2:5-6 (ESV)

 

Before I Became Ill, One Of My Passionate Hobbies Was Ornamental Horticulture

And I Observed Many Plants Were Engineered With Their Feeder Roots

Massed Directly Below Their Leaf Drip Line

Almost As If They Were Designed

With No Need For Rain

 

(Around 4:30 AM On Most San Francisco Mornings. The Fog Is So Heavy It Causes Streams Of Water To Run Down The Sides Of Buildings)






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