Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Sacrifice of Jesus

* * * * * 1 votes What do you believe?

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
3 replies to this topic

#1
almightyist

almightyist
  • Members
  • 50 posts

I started a new thread about the sacrifice of Jesus. continued from the catholic saved thread...

 

Revelation 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been

written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

 

1 Peter 3:18-19  He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made

alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

 

To me Revelation 13:8 could be translated Jesus (the lamb) was killed (was slain) from mankind

(creation of the world).

 

When it says he was put to death...sounds like crucifixion killed him...and out of the control of Jesus

 

John 10:17-18 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and

authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

 

 

I believe Jesus chose to die, otherwise no one would have had the power to kill him.

My point is he was killed by the Romans and the Jews.

 

Shiloh357 thinks he chose to die and no one killed him

 

When the heathens sacrificed people they forced people to die. Nobody forced Jesus to be a

sacrifice..he chose it...he laid it down of his own accord...he went as a willing innocent

lamb...He even felt forsaken by his own Father...forsaken means abandoned...and he said the same

thing all Children of God will say at their last breath...Father, into your hands I commit my

spirit....as far as being at 3:00...That is a God thing...I don't believe in coincidence..God the Father was in contro...

 

Mankind made the ultimate sacrifice to God the Father for all of mankinds sin by sacrificing his

Son Jesus. Mankind didnt realize what they were doing...but they fulfilled the will of Almighty

God...

 

 


Comments from shiloh357

 

Jesus was not murdered, executed nor was he a martyr.   Jesus' death was a sacrifice.   When we

attribute Jesus' death to any effort of man, we diminish its significance.   Jesus gave His life.

No one took it from Him.

 

Jesus was in total control of the events surrounding His death.   Jesus was not killed by the

efforts of man.  Jesus did what  none of can do:  Jesus gave up His spirit. He died at exactly

3pm, the exact moment the passover lamb was killed in Jerusalem.   Jesus didn't die from the

effects of crucifixion.   He died at the moment He chose to die and not one second sooner or

later. 

 

Jesus' death is meaningless if Jesus died due to the will of man.   Jesus' death was His own doing

and as God Jesus was sovereign over those who were crucifying Him.  Jesus' gave His life as a

sacrifice for sin and He used men to accomplish it.  But his death was a not  murder, it was not

an execution, it was not an act of martyrdom.  Jesus was not at the mercy of men, but was

fulfilling the will of His Father that was already in place before the foundations of earth were

laid.

 

Jesus was quoting from Psalm 22, a prophecy of His death on the cross.

Man did not take Jesus' life.  His death was a sacrifice for sin.   THAT is how we are to view it.

 

 

I don't view it this way...because it takes the focus away from the Cross.  For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:23-24 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

 

 

I feel the only way to really understand the Wrath of Almighty God is to understand what we (the human race) have done and the need for remorse and repentence.  The following parable attempts to explain the consequences of betraying Jesus..

.

Matthew 21:37-41

Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

“But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’

So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

 

I know how Shiloh357 feels...Do the rest of you feel Jesus death is meaningless if Jesus was killed, crucified by mankind?  Shiloh357 said that is how we are to view it....I am not sure who the we is because it sure is not me...maybe this whole board feels that way...and that is the we he is talking about...

 

This is a board what do you think?

 

you either believe Jesus

A)  chose to die ......so mankind had the power to kill him.

or

B)  chose to die ......mankind had no part in his death.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

 

 



#2
shiloh357

shiloh357

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,008 posts

I started a new thread about the sacrifice of Jesus. continued from the catholic saved thread...

 

Revelation 13:8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been

written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

 

1 Peter 3:18-19  He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made

alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—

 

To me Revelation 13:8 could be translated Jesus (the lamb) was killed (was slain) from mankind

(creation of the world).

 

When it says he was put to death...sounds like crucifixion killed him...and out of the control of Jesus

 

John 10:17-18 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and

authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

 

 

I believe Jesus chose to die, otherwise no one would have had the power to kill him.

My point is he was killed by the Romans and the Jews.

 

Shiloh357 thinks he chose to die and no one killed him

 

When the heathens sacrificed people they forced people to die. Nobody forced Jesus to be a

sacrifice..he chose it...he laid it down of his own accord...he went as a willing innocent

lamb...He even felt forsaken by his own Father...forsaken means abandoned...and he said the same

thing all Children of God will say at their last breath...Father, into your hands I commit my

spirit....as far as being at 3:00...That is a God thing...I don't believe in coincidence..God the Father was in contro...

 

Mankind made the ultimate sacrifice to God the Father for all of mankinds sin by sacrificing his

Son Jesus. Mankind didnt realize what they were doing...but they fulfilled the will of Almighty

God...

 

 


Comments from shiloh357

 

Jesus was not murdered, executed nor was he a martyr.   Jesus' death was a sacrifice.   When we

attribute Jesus' death to any effort of man, we diminish its significance.   Jesus gave His life.

No one took it from Him.

 

Jesus was in total control of the events surrounding His death.   Jesus was not killed by the

efforts of man.  Jesus did what  none of can do:  Jesus gave up His spirit. He died at exactly

3pm, the exact moment the passover lamb was killed in Jerusalem.   Jesus didn't die from the

effects of crucifixion.   He died at the moment He chose to die and not one second sooner or

later. 

 

Jesus' death is meaningless if Jesus died due to the will of man.   Jesus' death was His own doing

and as God Jesus was sovereign over those who were crucifying Him.  Jesus' gave His life as a

sacrifice for sin and He used men to accomplish it.  But his death was a not  murder, it was not

an execution, it was not an act of martyrdom.  Jesus was not at the mercy of men, but was

fulfilling the will of His Father that was already in place before the foundations of earth were

laid.

 

Jesus was quoting from Psalm 22, a prophecy of His death on the cross.

Man did not take Jesus' life.  His death was a sacrifice for sin.   THAT is how we are to view it.

 

 

I don't view it this way...because it takes the focus away from the Cross.  For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

 

 

You don't view it the Bible way.   It doesn't take the focus off of the cross at all to say that Jesus' death was a sacrifice that He chose to make of Himself.   Your view that Jesus was killed and that His death was the will of man diminishes Jesus' death as nothing but a murder or an execution.   I, on the other hand, choose to believe the entire counsel of the Word of God.

 

That Jesus' death on the cross is a sacrifice magnifies the work of the cross as a work of God, not as a murder that man engineered and imposed on Jesus.   The work of the cross is Jesus' work, not man's work.  If you don't believe that, you don't believe the Bible.

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:23-24 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

 

 

I feel the only way to really understand the Wrath of Almighty God is to understand what we (the human race) have done and the need for remorse and repentence.  The following parable attempts to explain the consequences of betraying Jesus..

 

No, the way to understand the wrath of God is to understand that all of God's wrath was poured out on Jesus, that He was a holy sacrifice, that He was the Passover Lamb sacrificed for us and paid for our redemption through completely satifisfying God's justice against our sin. 

 

I know how Shiloh357 feels...Do the rest of you feel Jesus death is meaningless if Jesus was killed, crucified by mankind?  Shiloh357 said that is how we are to view it....I am not sure who the we is because it sure is not me...maybe this whole board feels that way...and that is the we he is talking about...

 

 

It is not about how I feel.  I didn't make this up.   Jesus death was His own doing.   He didn't die because of the cross, which is proven in the fact that Jesus died the moment He chose to die.   Jesus gave up His spirit;  He didn't succumb to the cross.   Jesus was not mankind's  hapless and helpless victim.  Jesus' purpose, His goal was to die on the cross.   He simply used man as His instruments to accmoplish that goal.   He was not at man's mercy.  Man was at His mercy.  In one word, Jesus could have called down the armies of heaven to destroy His enemies.   Jesus was not their victim.   It was no coincidence that  Jesus died that moment He died at exactly 3 pm when the Passover lambs in Jerusalem were being killed.  

This is a board what do you think?

 

you either believe Jesus

A)  chose to die ......so mankind had the power to kill him.

or

B)  chose to die ......mankind had no part in his death.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

Jesus chose to die and as such, man did not have any power over Him that was not granted by Jesus, as Jesus was sovereign over the events surrounding His death on the cross.



#3
Parker1

Parker1

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,969 posts

"Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and His disciples followed Him. On reaching the place, He said to them, 'Pray that you will not fall into temptation.' He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 'Father, if You are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.'” Luke 22:39-42 (NIV) The plan, since the beginning of the World, was for Christ to come to the Earth as a human being, to pay the price for sin. He was fully GOD and fully man, yet chose to not avail Himself of His divinity so that He could fulfill the will of the Father. Christ, the man, didn't want to die in the manner that He was asked to. But he chose to do the will of the Father. Which is how we are supposed to live. Christ surrendered His live as a sacrifice for many, which was in obedience to the will of the Father; just as we are to surrender our lives to Christ.



#4
almightyist

almightyist
  • Members
  • 50 posts
Shiloh357 says:
You don't view it the Bible way.  If you don't believe that, you don't believe the Bible. I, on the other hand, choose to believe the entire counsel of the Word of God.

 

R these comments really necessary.  Is that the way it is on this board....if you disagree...u get dogged...obviously u have a passion for your thoughts...just let the derogatory and self praise comments go...it is not very appealing...especially on a Christian board...I appreciate a different view because it makes you dig into the Holy Word...

 

Shiloh357 says:
Your view that Jesus was killed and that His death was the will of man diminishes Jesus' death as nothing but a murder or an execution.

 

And you seem to view it as a suicide.

Suicide is the "act of taking one's own life".

 

Shiloh357 says:
No, the way to understand the wrath of God is to understand that all of God's wrath was poured out on Jesus, that He was a holy sacrifice, that He was the Passover Lamb sacrificed for us and paid for our redemption through completely satifisfying God's justice against our sin.

 

What.......Jesus bore our sins...not God's wrath...he came to save us from God's wrath..

 

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

1 Peter 2:23-25 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

 

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

 

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

 

Romans 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

 

Shiloh357 says
In one word, Jesus could have called down the armies of heaven to destroy His enemies.  Jesus was not their victim.  It was no coincidence that  Jesus died that moment He died at exactly 3 pm when the Passover lambs in Jerusalem were being killed.

 

Matthew 26:52-54 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

 

Jesus called to his Father and his Father will at once put at his disposal.  Jesus did everything thru his Father. 

 

Shiloh357 says:
Jesus chose to die and as such, man did not have any power over Him that was not granted by Jesus, as Jesus was sovereign over the events surrounding His death on the cross.

 

Your whole argument hinges on this one little scripture....No one takes it from me, ....and it is resolve with one little line....no one took it from him he surrendered it....thank you Parker...good word..

 

Surrender.....sur·ren·der  [suh-ren-der]  - to yield (something) to the possession or power of another; deliver up possession of on demand or under duress: to surrender the fort to the enemy; to surrender the stolen goods to the police.

- to give up, abandon, or relinquish (comfort, hope, etc.).

 

 

 

Romans 3:25-26 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.

 

shed blood -to cause blood to flow.
                  - to kill by violence; slaughter.

 

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted,yet he did not open his mouth;he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,so he did not open his mouth.

 

slaugh·ter - the brutal or violent killing of a person.
                  - to kill in a brutal or violent manner.






Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network