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The rapture theory: True or false?

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Hi guys, what I read in the link am about to show you will shock you concerning the author's view of the rapture. http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/rapture-theory-false.html.

Pls check the link and let me know what you all think.

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I only had to read to the point where the author said that the Millennial Reign taking place on the Earth was "a false teaching" to know that this person did not know what they were talking about; never mind their view on the Rapture. When you are teaching one false doctrine, than the teacher is not teaching correct doctrine that comes from GOD. You need to find a different source.

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Ok! Parker

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You asked.

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I agree with Parker, kW.

The last paragraph said this-

And why do we "meet the Lord in the air"? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be at the END of the 1000 year millennium. This is another misunderstanding that the rapture theory causes. Jesus is not going to rule on earth during the 1000 years. Instead, we are going to be in heaven with Him during this time, and the earth will be "laid waste" from His second coming. And only AFTER the 1000 years will we return to earth with Christ.

Spock's thoughts:

Not the way I see it. To say Jesus ain't coming back on planet earth to take over is not exactly the way I interpret the bible. Am I always right? No. Am I right on this one? Probably.

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I agree with Parker too :thumbs_up:

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Ok guys, so what do y'all think of the guy who wrote the website? A false prophet?

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I don't know that I would call him a prophet at all, but clearly much of what he is saying appears to not true...

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Ok guys, so what do y'all think of the guy who wrote the website? A false prophet?

The author is not a prophet. He is a teacher. And if he is teaching wrong doctrine, then he is not of GOD.

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I don't know much about him having just read this one article, but from my point of view, he is not a very good teacher, at least in this regard.

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Hi guys, what I read in the link am about to show you will shock you concerning the author's view of the rapture. http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/rapture-theory-false.html.

Pls check the link and let me know what you all think.

Just like everyone else he's right on some things and wrong on some things. He does make a reasonable argument against the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture though.

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So what is the point now my friends

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So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?

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Ok guys, so what do y'all think of the guy who wrote the website? A false prophet?

 

A side note: a disciple, an apostle and a prophet have different meanings. Blessings.

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Ok guys

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So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?

Fair enough, so let's write off that link as inaccurate. I'm going to use a similar argument though, starting with that "last day" argument. Using the bible as my source, it appears the ungodly will be judged on the day when we are resurrected, what say ye pre-tribbers:

John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'

John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'

John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'

My general argument against the pre-trib rapture is that in every single verse, in every single context where a resurrection or rapture occurs, the more obvious reading favors a post-trib rapture, and the less obvious meaning favors a pre-trib rapture. sure the bible is often open to interpretation but when every single case favors a post-trib or late-trib rapture you should think twice about the pre-trib rapture view.

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"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected?  so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

 

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur.  It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown".  Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

 

Pre 70th week is an unknown time.  Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

 

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

 

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected?  so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

 

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur.  It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown".  Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

 

Pre 70th week is an unknown time.  Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

 

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

 

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't see it as an unknown time. Its unknown only for unbelievers, the rest can know the approximate month but not the day or the hour.

Quite often that day is described as a thief for unbelievers, but not a thief for believers: 1 Thess 5:

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

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"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected? so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur. It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown". Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

Pre 70th week is an unknown time. Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't see it as an unknown time. Its unknown only for unbelievers, the rest can know the approximate month but not the day or the hour.

Quite often that day is described as a thief for unbelievers, but not a thief for believers: 1 Thess 5:

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

So are you trying to say that the month will be know?
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So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?
Fair enough, so let's write off that link as inaccurate. I'm going to use a similar argument though, starting with that "last day" argument. Using the bible as my source, it appears the ungodly will be judged on the day when we are resurrected, what say ye pre-tribbers:John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'My general argument against the pre-trib rapture is that in every single verse, in every single context where a resurrection or rapture occurs, the more obvious reading favors a post-trib rapture, and the less obvious meaning favors a pre-trib rapture. sure the bible is often open to interpretation but when every single case favors a post-trib or late-trib rapture you should think twice about the pre-trib rapture view.
Argosy,

I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I leave you with this to chew on if you want to go deeper:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/last-days-latter-days-last-times.html

Thanks for stretching me here.

PS your john 12:48 last day reference to me is clearly different than the last day reference in John 6 and john 11. One is before the millennial reign of Christ (john 6 and 11) and one is after the 1000 year reign at the Great White throne judgment (john 12).

So, here last day meant last in two different instances.

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God the Father is the only one who knows when the His Son/Bridegroom will come for His Bride (Rapture)  Matt 24:26

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I don't know if this will help you either, brother, but the phrase being "raised up on the last day" is another way of saying one will be resurrected and reign with the Lord in the millennium.  The last day will endure for a literal 1000 years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Pet. 3:8).  Man will be ruled by the prince of darkness for 6000 years or six days, and then by Christ for 1000 years or the last day.  We have been living in the last days (plural) for almost 2000 years (Heb. 1:1).  Then to put the icing on the cake check out (Hosea 6:2).  :lightbulb2: 

 

But now, I see that our last discussion about Daniel 12:1-2 did not help much.  I realize that pre-tribbers hope to escape long before the need arises, but now you say that you believe the old Testament saints will be resurrected after the tribulation?  Hmmmm?  What makes you so sure living pre-tribbers will move to the head of the line in the first resurrection?  Do you realize the dead in Christ will rise first?  Or is it that you believe the OT saints are not in Christ at all?  I'm just curious, what were the gentile believers grafted into? :help: 

 

Revelation 11:18

And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

I don't see any discriminating between the old and new Testament saints anywhere here, do you?   

 

Or maybe I'm just missing something here? :hmmm:

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I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I don't know if this will help you either, brother, but the phrase being "raised up on the last day" is another way of saying one will be resurrected and reign with the Lord in the millennium. The last day will endure for a literal 1000 years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Pet. 3:8). Man will be ruled by the prince of darkness for 6000 years or six days, and then by Christ for 1000 years or the last day. We have been living in the last days (plural) for almost 2000 years (Heb. 1:1). Then to put the icing on the cake check out (Hosea 6:2). :lightbulb2:

But now, I see that our last discussion about Daniel 12:1-2 did not help much. I realize that pre-tribbers hope to escape long before the need arises, but now you say that you believe the old Testament saints will be resurrected after the tribulation? Hmmmm? What makes you so sure living pre-tribbers will move to the head of the line in the first resurrection? Do you realize the dead in Christ will rise first? Or is it that you believe the OT saints are not in Christ at all? I'm just curious, what were the gentile believers grafted into? :help:

Revelation 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I don't see any discriminating between the old and new Testament saints here anywhere, do you?

Or maybe I'm just missing something here? :hmmm:

You answered your question. Right now, I do believe OT believers are not the same as those in Christ. Does this make me a dispensationalist? I guess it might.

I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Don't get frustrated at me RT, I'm just not convinced yet, but always open. Keep them coming my brother.

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I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I don't know if this will help you either, brother, but the phrase being "raised up on the last day" is another way of saying one will be resurrected and reign with the Lord in the millennium. The last day will endure for a literal 1000 years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Pet. 3:8). Man will be ruled by the prince of darkness for 6000 years or six days, and then by Christ for 1000 years or the last day. We have been living in the last days (plural) for almost 2000 years (Heb. 1:1). Then to put the icing on the cake check out (Hosea 6:2). :lightbulb2:

But now, I see that our last discussion about Daniel 12:1-2 did not help much. I realize that pre-tribbers hope to escape long before the need arises, but now you say that you believe the old Testament saints will be resurrected after the tribulation? Hmmmm? What makes you so sure living pre-tribbers will move to the head of the line in the first resurrection? Do you realize the dead in Christ will rise first? Or is it that you believe the OT saints are not in Christ at all? I'm just curious, what were the gentile believers grafted into? :help:

Revelation 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I don't see any discriminating between the old and new Testament saints here anywhere, do you?

Or maybe I'm just missing something here? :hmmm:

You answered your question. Right now, I do believe OT believers are not the same as those in Christ. Does this make me a dispensationalist? I guess it might.

I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Don't get frustrated at me RT, I'm just not convinced yet, but always open. Keep them coming my brother.

I'm not frustrated. I'm just messin' with ya a little. Seriously, I think you usually ask good questions, but I didn't know what to think when you got silent. I haven't learned how to read minds yet, but I'm workin' on it.

I thought you would have asked more questions, though, if something wasn't clear.

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I have no problem seeing the church as being distinct, after all, it was a MYSTERY.

Your view is pretty common actually, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. But that does not make it correct. The most popular belief in the first century was that Christ would come as a conquering king, but today we have the pre-trib rapture.  Don't you just love how history repeats? :biggrin2:

 

I uncovered quite a bit about how the Old Testament saints fit into the kingdom of heaven in the first chapter of my book.  I believe your view would change if you read what I wrote about it.  Let me know if you want to read chapter one and I'll send it in a PM.

 

Cheers

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