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We ALL Have a Universal Moral Code In Us


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#1
Donibm

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How do I know?  The Bible says so ... and I have an Inside Whistle Blower who tells me so.  His name is "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

 

That may not be good enough for some.  Sorta like saying to an atheist "could you be wrong about God?" and them retaliating with "could you?"  My answer is always "no".  They say I'm being shallow and unfair.  I disagree because I KNOW God, His Word and His character.  I KNOW they are true.  The Spirit tells me, guides me, leads me, corrects me, chastises me and comforts me.  How can I be wrong about it?

 

Similarly, I know we ALL have a moral code in us.  Here's some reasons why:

 

 

 

FIRST:

Mankind has eaten from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Really, that should settle it right there.  You KNOW the difference between right and wrong.  Sure, cultural influences or repetitious sins may "kill" your conscious in certain areas (like, cheating on your wife may make you fuzzy the first 3 times, but after that comes less and less conviction ... until it is natural for you ... and such are the sins of a backslider), but inwardly, you still KNOW that its wrong.

 

 

SECOND:

Scriptures tell us that mankind KNOWS about God.  We can clearly see Him through His massive and wonderful Creation.  King David, in his primitive knowledge of the human anatomy, said that we are beautifully and wonderfully made.  Even Charles Darwin expressed doubt over his theory on several occasions (did ya'll know that he was not even an atheist?  Not all evolutionists are atheists).  One of those occasions was Darwin studying the function of the eye.  A singular part of the body.  It is so complex that Darwin was essentially saying "this can't all be by chance."  And that was with a single eye; forget the rest of the body.  So yes, men see God's good and marvelous works, but refuse to acknowledge Him.

 

Oh!  And here is a good one.  You know Richard Dawkins ... right?  He is a mainstream atheist.  He says that "faith is the big cop out" ... but later acknowledged that it takes faith to believe in evolution as well.   He/they do not believe in Intelligent Design (Creation), but later on, Dawkins suggested that ALIENS built our universe.  So, apparently, they KNOW that God exists, but they REFUSE to glorify Him AS God ... and would suggest that "aliens" did Gods work instead.  So, it appears that they believe in intelligent design after all ... as long as "God" isn't part of it.  Is anyone else noticing the high levels of hypocrisy with them?

 

So, yes, the Scriptures are right when they say that "they KNEW Him as God, but glorified Him not as God."

 

 

THIRD:

Because whatever your conscious doesn't prick you on, the Holy Spirit will.  God has always existed.  God has always been the guide - teaching US the difference between wrong and the right.  Always.  God [the Father], God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.  They all play a part in this.

 

Scriptures clearly show that the Holy Spirit is the "One who restrains" ... and will be "taken out of the way" ... and when that happens, the whole world is plunged into chaos and LAWLESSNESS.  Why lawlessness?  Because it is the Spirit who tells you "No, don't pull that trigger"  No - don't even buy the gun because no good can come out of that.  No - don't go there.  No - it is not as harmless as it looks.  It is also the Spirit who says, "Repent!  Believe on Jesus.  Trust in Him alone.  Find Salvation in no other.  Repent and turn from your wicked ways"  And once taken out of the way, well, three times Revelation shows that mankind will NOT repent.  Three times.  The reason should now be obvious.  The Spirit is raptured with the Church, and it is the Spirits task to call men to repentance.  And since the Spirit isn't on earth, mankind plunge into lawlessness.

 

The Comforter has always been around.  Always.  Not as intimately known to our forefathers of faith as He is to us ... but certainly, He has always been around, since before the creation of the world.  He is also how we KNOW right from wrong, and about God, and His Word.

 

 

 

 

There are the three reasons I know that we all know the difference between right and wrong.  I believe they are the root and foundational things.  There may be other reasons, such as we can clearly see it in our judicial systems, the morality of people (even immoral people are angry at things like the Trevon Martin and G. Zimmerman case, or a man raping a woman, or human mutilation), etc.  But these three points, to me, are foundational to us BELIEVERS.

 

 

 

Ending.

 

God is neither sleep ... nor absent.  He sees how His Word is mishandled from the pulpit, and from the webpage.  He hears their arguments and theories ... just as He hears yours.  Being SILENT is not an indication of approval.  Judgment ... is on its way.  And don't think for a second that He is coming with a smiling face.


Edited by Donibm, 16 March 2014 - 09:52 AM.


#2
Trumpet cry

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How do I know?  The Bible says so ... and I have an Inside Whistle Blower who tells me so.  His name is "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

 

That may not be good enough for some.  Sorta like saying to an atheist "could you be wrong about God?" and them retaliating with "could you?"  My answer is always "no".  They say I'm being shallow and unfair.  I disagree because I KNOW God, His Word and His character.  I KNOW they are true.  The Spirit tells me, guides me, leads me, corrects me, chastises me and comforts me.  How can I be wrong about it?

 

Similarly, I know we ALL have a moral code in us.  Here's some reasons why:

 

 

 

FIRST:

Mankind has eaten from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Really, that should settle it right there.  You KNOW the difference between right and wrong.  Sure, cultural influences or repetitious sins may "kill" your conscious in certain areas (like, cheating on your wife may make you fuzzy the first 3 times, but after that comes less and less conviction ... until it is natural for you ... and such are the sins of a backslider), but inwardly, you still KNOW that its wrong.

 

 

SECOND:

Scriptures tell us that mankind KNOWS about God.  We can clearly see Him through His massive and wonderful Creation.  King David, in his primitive knowledge of the human anatomy, said that we are beautifully and wonderfully made.  Even Charles Darwin expressed doubt over his theory on several occasions (did ya'll know that he was not even an atheist?  Not all evolutionists are atheists).  One of those occasions was Darwin studying the function of the eye.  A singular part of the body.  It is so complex that Darwin was essentially saying "this can't all be by chance."  And that was with a single eye; forget the rest of the body.  So yes, men see God's good and marvelous works, but refuse to acknowledge Him.

 

Oh!  And here is a good one.  You know Richard Dawkins ... right?  He is a mainstream atheist.  He says that "faith is the big cop out" ... but later acknowledged that it takes faith to believe in evolution as well.   He/they do not believe in Intelligent Design (Creation), but later on, Dawkins suggested that ALIENS built our universe.  So, apparently, they KNOW that God exists, but they REFUSE to glorify Him AS God ... and would suggest that "aliens" did Gods work instead.  So, it appears that they believe in intelligent design after all ... as long as "God" isn't part of it.  Is anyone else noticing the high levels of hypocrisy with them?

 

So, yes, the Scriptures are right when they say that "they KNEW Him as God, but glorified Him not as God."

 

 

THIRD:

Because whatever your conscious doesn't prick you on, the Holy Spirit will.  God has always existed.  God has always been the guide - teaching US the difference between wrong and the right.  Always.  God [the Father], God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.  They all play a part in this.

 

 

 

 Amen to this Donibm! I always like to use the scripture, Romans 2:14 :

" For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. "

 

And in James 4:17 we find the definition of sin: "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

 

Yes, Atheists do indeed have a god, there is no way around it. They believe in something above all else. They are created in God's image (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), so their "natural" inclinations or whatever you want to call it, are God made! They can't look at the world from any other perspective other than by God given traits. I had to laugh when my brother (a non-believer) exclaimed to me how beautiful Hawaii was. He said that it was like he had died and gone to heaven! Is there a heaven apart from God? No. Who created the beauty of Hawaii? Is there a "natural" love of that type of beauty placed within us? Where does that come from? Without God there would be NO good. Well, just putting my 2 cents worth in, don't want to steer it off topic.



#3
FresnoJoe

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Amen~!



#4
Donibm

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How do I know?  The Bible says so ... and I have an Inside Whistle Blower who tells me so.  His name is "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

 

That may not be good enough for some.  Sorta like saying to an atheist "could you be wrong about God?" and them retaliating with "could you?"  My answer is always "no".  They say I'm being shallow and unfair.  I disagree because I KNOW God, His Word and His character.  I KNOW they are true.  The Spirit tells me, guides me, leads me, corrects me, chastises me and comforts me.  How can I be wrong about it?

 

Similarly, I know we ALL have a moral code in us.  Here's some reasons why:

 

 

 

FIRST:

Mankind has eaten from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Really, that should settle it right there.  You KNOW the difference between right and wrong.  Sure, cultural influences or repetitious sins may "kill" your conscious in certain areas (like, cheating on your wife may make you fuzzy the first 3 times, but after that comes less and less conviction ... until it is natural for you ... and such are the sins of a backslider), but inwardly, you still KNOW that its wrong.

 

 

SECOND:

Scriptures tell us that mankind KNOWS about God.  We can clearly see Him through His massive and wonderful Creation.  King David, in his primitive knowledge of the human anatomy, said that we are beautifully and wonderfully made.  Even Charles Darwin expressed doubt over his theory on several occasions (did ya'll know that he was not even an atheist?  Not all evolutionists are atheists).  One of those occasions was Darwin studying the function of the eye.  A singular part of the body.  It is so complex that Darwin was essentially saying "this can't all be by chance."  And that was with a single eye; forget the rest of the body.  So yes, men see God's good and marvelous works, but refuse to acknowledge Him.

 

Oh!  And here is a good one.  You know Richard Dawkins ... right?  He is a mainstream atheist.  He says that "faith is the big cop out" ... but later acknowledged that it takes faith to believe in evolution as well.   He/they do not believe in Intelligent Design (Creation), but later on, Dawkins suggested that ALIENS built our universe.  So, apparently, they KNOW that God exists, but they REFUSE to glorify Him AS God ... and would suggest that "aliens" did Gods work instead.  So, it appears that they believe in intelligent design after all ... as long as "God" isn't part of it.  Is anyone else noticing the high levels of hypocrisy with them?

 

So, yes, the Scriptures are right when they say that "they KNEW Him as God, but glorified Him not as God."

 

 

THIRD:

Because whatever your conscious doesn't prick you on, the Holy Spirit will.  God has always existed.  God has always been the guide - teaching US the difference between wrong and the right.  Always.  God [the Father], God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.  They all play a part in this.

 

 

 

 Amen to this Donibm! I always like to use the scripture, Romans 2:14 :

" For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. "

 

And in James 4:17 we find the definition of sin: "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

 

Yes, Atheists do indeed have a god, there is no way around it. They believe in something above all else. They are created in God's image (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), so their "natural" inclinations or whatever you want to call it, are God made! They can't look at the world from any other perspective other than by God given traits. I had to laugh when my brother (a non-believer) exclaimed to me how beautiful Hawaii was. He said that it was like he had died and gone to heaven! Is there a heaven apart from God? No. Who created the beauty of Hawaii? Is there a "natural" love of that type of beauty placed within us? Where does that come from? Without God there would be NO good. Well, just putting my 2 cents worth in, don't want to steer it off topic.

 

 

Going off topic is fine with me.  I enjoy just about everything concerning Biblical Truths. 

 

Your post of James 4 makes me consider Judgment Day.  To those who do wrong, knowingly, will be beaten with many lashes.  But those who do wrong, unknowingly, will be beaten with only a few lashes.

 

Some might try to say, "See!  Look!  Not everyone has a conscious!" ... and they'd be wrong.  After all, there are different dispensations.  Afrom Adam - Moses there was no Law, and "where there is no Low, there is no transgression."  Then came the Law of Moses ... but what about the other nations of the earth who are not subject to the Law of Moses?  They cannot be judged by something they dont know, or arent' commanded to follow.

 

But here is the whammy.  We have a BETTER Covenant with BETTER promises, but MORE IS EXPECTED of us.  Why?  Because we know these things.  We know there was a Dispensation of the Conscious from Adam - Moses.  We know there is the Dispensation of the Law.  We know, and live in, the Dispensation of Grace.  OUR JUDGEMENT will be harsher.

 

If that is hard to accept, consider what Jesus said concerning the wicked cities such as Tyre or Sodom.  Jesus said that even they would have a better time in Judgment than Jerusalem who was then receiving the Truth but rejecting it.  So, how much more will OUR Judgments be firm?  So, Noah, who was probably a drunk will not be judged for drunkeness as you and I will be.  Abraham, who was an idol worshipper, will nto be judged as harshly as you and I.

 

Much I can say about it.  But ... yes, we are starting to get a little off track.  :-)



#5
educatexan

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I have to wonder about what kind of internal moral code humans have.  I've had students in my class (you'll hear me talk about teaching a lot) who have eyes like a shark.  Absolutely nothing there.  They think nothing about hurting another student, or boldly lying to my face.  It makes me wonder about their world view.



#6
FresnoJoe

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Praying~!



#7
enoob57

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I have to wonder about what kind of internal moral code humans have.  I've had students in my class (you'll hear me talk about teaching a lot) who have eyes like a shark.  Absolutely nothing there.  They think nothing about hurting another student, or boldly lying to my face.  It makes me wonder about their world view.

There are severe warnings from God about the continual evacuation of God's truth from our implementation of being
Rom 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women
exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the
men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one
another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in
themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
NKJV
Ps 81:11-12
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their
own counsels.
KJV


As society increases in the wickedness of investing themselves into that which does not last
they have no hold on the everlasting... this is no achor of being and into the abyss of ruin
and darkness of serving the lusts of that which ends...
Heb 6:18-20
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie,
we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold
upon the hope set before us: 19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul,
both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest
for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
KJV

The infinite is a scary place until your attached to the Infinite Being Jesus The Christ...
Love, Steven

#8
Schouwenaars

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a universal moral is something i think a lot about.

i'll present shortly my conclusion with an exemple:

 

your in the jungle and you're attacked by a lion who wants to kill you.

you shoot him down because he's a treath to you.

you have done good, because otherwise you were dead.

at the other side, it was not very good for the lion, who just wanted to eat, or who would starve.

 

i have many other exemples of this kind of situation.

my personal conclusion is that there is only a human moral law, not a universal one.



#9
FresnoJoe

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a universal moral is something i think a lot about.

I'll present shortly my conclusion with an example:

 

your in the jungle and you're attacked by a lion who wants to kill you.

you shoot him down because he's a threat to you.

you have done good, because otherwise you were dead.

at the other side, it was not very good for the lion, who just wanted to eat, or who would starve.

 

i have many other examples of this kind of situation.

my personal conclusion is that there is only a human moral law, not a universal one.

 

:thumbsup:

 

God Came Down To Earth

 

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

 

To Become Forever A Human Being

 

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

 

Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

 

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

 

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

 

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:18-23

 

To Give His Life To Save His Brothers And Sisters From Everlasting Hell Fire

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

 

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

 

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

 

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:18-21

 

Yet It's A Sad Sad But True Fact, For Most Of Mankind

 

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

 

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-14

 

Their Human Moral Law

 

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

 

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Romans 3:10-12

 

Kicks In

 

Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

 

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

 

Their feet are swift to shed blood:

 

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

 

And the way of peace have they not known:

 

There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:13-18

 

Now Brother I Ask, Is This Human Moral Law

 

And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart. Jeremiah 18:12

 

Really Ever Filled With The Law

 

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

 

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

 

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:29-31

 

Is It Really Even Moral

 

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 John 5:10

 

Or Even Rational

 

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

 

Is It Wise?

 

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

 

Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2

 

~

 

Believe

 

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

 

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe



#10
shiloh357

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a universal moral is something i think a lot about.

i'll present shortly my conclusion with an exemple:

 

your in the jungle and you're attacked by a lion who wants to kill you.

you shoot him down because he's a treath to you.

you have done good, because otherwise you were dead.

at the other side, it was not very good for the lion, who just wanted to eat, or who would starve.

 

i have many other exemples of this kind of situation.

my personal conclusion is that there is only a human moral law, not a universal one.

Survival is not an issue of morality.   In survival you do anything it takes survive even if it means committing evil.   When we start defining good with such irrational notions as survival, anything no matter how murderous or heinous can be justified as "good" and that leads to lawlessness where morality is defined by each person rather than having one objective standard that governs how we live.



#11
Schouwenaars

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ok, another than survival then:

 

suppose there is a man and he likes killing people, just for fun.

in himself, he thinks it's good.

while we think it's bad.

 

then moral is a matter of opinion.

the man will be depicted as bad, because the majority of the other people think it's bad.

 

imagine now that the other people think the same as that man.

then that act will be good, as well as the man, because majority wins.

 

now moral is also a matter of majority.



#12
shiloh357

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ok, another than survival then:

 

suppose there is a man and he likes killing people, just for fun.

in himself, he thinks it's good.

while we think it's bad.

 

then moral is a matter of opinion.

the man will be depicted as bad, because the majority of the other people think it's bad.

 

imagine now that the other people think the same as that man.

then that act will be good, as well as the man, because majority wins.

 

now moral is also a matter of majority.

A universal moral law cannot be subject to opinion.  if it is based on opinion, then it isn't universal and you have just contradicted your assertion that such a universal law exists.  

 

If morality is based on opinion, then if a person thinks killing other people for sport is morally acceptable, you are you or anyone else to say it is bad?   What right to do his victims have in to expect justice?  

 

If he thinks it is okay to kill for fun and you don't think  it's okay for him to do that, what makes him wrong and you right?   If morality is based on opinion, there is no "morality."  Morality can't be relative or based on opinion.   By nature morality must be defined by one objective moral standard.



#13
enoob57

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a universal moral is something i think a lot about.
i'll present shortly my conclusion with an exemple:
 
your in the jungle and you're attacked by a lion who wants to kill you.
you shoot him down because he's a treath to you.
you have done good, because otherwise you were dead.
at the other side, it was not very good for the lion, who just wanted to eat, or who would starve.
 
i have many other exemples of this kind of situation.
my personal conclusion is that there is only a human moral law, not a universal one.

The period of Good that the Lord created was ended by choice of our greatest grandpa Adam...
What we observe since that time is the curse of God upon said creation and the rebellion of
satan in present control and influence of a cursed fallen world...

Any conclusions of the natural order of things now will be skewed and any reasoning
from a skewed perspective will naturally be influenced into what is called shadows
and darkness- explained as such by Paul
1 Cor 13:12
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
KJV

It is in this line of reality that we use God's Word to illumine our sight in this
fallen place as to see into the darkness the true nature of things - which being
God's Person and what He is keeping forever...
example: no one gives a quarter for a penny and anyone who did would be called a
fool! No one would give a $100.00 for a loaf of bread (not yet anyway)! In all this
we have been influenced by a system of value learned from the darkness whereby we do
not thank God for the highest value 'Himself' and into the next highest value the
sustenance to continue to do so... instead we have myriad of values placed in an
order which excludes God or nearly so into what is called false life being the
practice of the worship of death! Lost is the absence of compass leading out of the
darkness into the light and true North is in fact where God Sanctuary 'IS'... the
only problem though it is outside of the universe He is presently stretching out
like a curtain and the congregation is in those born of His Spirit being fashioned
for true worship outside of the influence of error that is here in this darkness.
1 John 2:15-18
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any
man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that
is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the
pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world
passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
abideth for ever. 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists;
whereby we know that it is the last time.
KJV

My prayer for all is that your heart is built on nothing less than Jesus Blood and Righteousness...
Love, Steven

#14
Schouwenaars

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ok, another than survival then:

 

suppose there is a man and he likes killing people, just for fun.

in himself, he thinks it's good.

while we think it's bad.

 

then moral is a matter of opinion.

the man will be depicted as bad, because the majority of the other people think it's bad.

 

imagine now that the other people think the same as that man.

then that act will be good, as well as the man, because majority wins.

 

now moral is also a matter of majority.

A universal moral law cannot be subject to opinion.  if it is based on opinion, then it isn't universal and you have just contradicted your assertion that such a universal law exists.  

 

If morality is based on opinion, then if a person thinks killing other people for sport is morally acceptable, you are you or anyone else to say it is bad?   What right to do his victims have in to expect justice?  

 

If he thinks it is okay to kill for fun and you don't think  it's okay for him to do that, what makes him wrong and you right?   If morality is based on opinion, there is no "morality."  Morality can't be relative or based on opinion.   By nature morality must be defined by one objective moral standard.

 

 

maybe your understood me wrong. i'm saying there is no universal MORAL law. so how can i contradict myself?

and i was saying that if moral is indeed linked to opinion, then there is no universal moral law.

all you say below that is just proving my point.

 

 

If he thinks it is okay to kill for fun and you don't think  it's okay for him to do that, what makes him wrong and you right?   If morality is based on opinion, there is no "morality.

 


Edited by Schouwenaars, 11 June 2014 - 10:18 AM.


#15
Bonky

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I haven't found any moral system that can completely account for what is "right" and what is "wrong" and do so consistently throughout history.   To me morality is a bit like "How do you perfectly take care of your body?".   There are going to be some grey areas for sure, but we KNOW drinking bleach isn't going to be a recommendation.

 

 

* I think you can come up with a basis for "morality" especially if you're working with:  intelligent social beings [in this case humans], who hold to some core values such as:

 

Life is preferable to death

Pleasure is preferable to pain

 

*Credit to Matt Dilahunty

 

Now again, I'm not saying there aren't exceptions or any grey areas.   For instance, if I'm in extreme pain and it's terminal, perhaps I'd prefer death over life in that case.

 

I truly believe the Theist has more trouble accounting for morality as defined by some being they refer to as "God".



#16
shiloh357

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I truly believe the Theist has more trouble accounting for morality as defined by some being they refer to as "God".

the perfect basis for morality is the Bible.



#17
*Zion*

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I have to wonder about what kind of internal moral code humans have.  I've had students in my class (you'll hear me talk about teaching a lot) who have eyes like a shark.  Absolutely nothing there.  They think nothing about hurting another student, or boldly lying to my face.  It makes me wonder about their world view.

There are severe warnings from God about the continual evacuation of God's truth from our implementation of being
Rom 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women
exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the
men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one
another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in
themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
NKJV
Ps 81:11-12
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their
own counsels.
KJV


As society increases in the wickedness of investing themselves into that which does not last
they have no hold on the everlasting... this is no achor of being and into the abyss of ruin
and darkness of serving the lusts of that which ends...
Heb 6:18-20
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie,
we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold
upon the hope set before us: 19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul,
both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest
for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
KJV

The infinite is a scary place until your attached to the Infinite Being Jesus The Christ...
Love, Steven

 

 

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:



#18
jerryR34

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a universal moral is something i think a lot about.

i'll present shortly my conclusion with an exemple:

 

your in the jungle and you're attacked by a lion who wants to kill you.

you shoot him down because he's a treath to you.

you have done good, because otherwise you were dead.

at the other side, it was not very good for the lion, who just wanted to eat, or who would starve.

 

i have many other exemples of this kind of situation.

my personal conclusion is that there is only a human moral law, not a universal one.

Survival is not an issue of morality.   In survival you do anything it takes survive even if it means committing evil.   When we start defining good with such irrational notions as survival, anything no matter how murderous or heinous can be justified as "good" and that leads to lawlessness where morality is defined by each person rather than having one objective standard that governs how we live.

 

So, given the opportunity, would you watch your child starve to death rather than steal to feed her?


Edited by jerryR34, 11 June 2014 - 11:48 AM.


#19
Bonky

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I truly believe the Theist has more trouble accounting for morality as defined by some being they refer to as "God".

the perfect basis for morality is the Bible.

Which Bible? Who's interpretation?

Edited by Bonky, 11 June 2014 - 11:51 AM.


#20
FresnoJoe

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OK, another than survival then:

 

suppose there is a man and he likes killing people, just for fun.

in himself, he thinks it's good.

while we think it's bad.

 

then moral is a matter of opinion.

the man will be depicted as bad, because the majority of the other people think it's bad.

 

imagine now that the other people think the same as that man.

then that act will be good, as well as the man, because majority wins.

 

now moral is also a matter of majority.

 

~

 

I truly believe the Theist has more trouble accounting for morality as defined by some being they refer to as "God".

the perfect basis for morality is the Bible.

Which Bible? Who's interpretation?

 

~

 

Beloved, Morals

 

What if some were unfaithful?

 

Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? Romans 3:3 (NIV)

 

Is Never A Matter Of Majority

 

Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar.

 

As it is written:“So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:4 (NIV)






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