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Animals before the fall

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Do you think it was common for animals to talk to humans prior to the fall?   It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.  It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.    Also, Adam met with each of the animals to give them a name and to see if they were suitable for his helper.  Is it conceivable that he was able to speak to them during this meeting time?

Thought about this today and wanted to get some other opinions.

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This makes me think of Narnia. :D
 
Interesting theory. Balaam's donkey also spoke, so maybe it was an ability they had previously?
 
Since they don't seem to be able to speak physically, how about some sort of telepathic or empathic communication?  I swear my dog tries to speak to me mentally. She just stares....and stares...and somehow I find myself handing her a dog biscuit. :laugh:

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If it was not recorded in the Bible I do not except it.

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Just depends on what ancient man could imagine.  They could claim anything.

 

While we might agree on some things, it seems our view of the Bible is not the same.  The Bible is the Word of God and not the imagination of ancient men.  If you don't believe the Bible is the word of God, why even believe there is a God?

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Do you think it was common for animals to talk to humans prior to the fall?   It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.  It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.    Also, Adam met with each of the animals to give them a name and to see if they were suitable for his helper.  Is it conceivable that he was able to speak to them during this meeting time?

Thought about this today and wanted to get some other opinions.

Why must the story be literal?  Why can't it be taken as an inspired myth or fable?

 

clb

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Do you think it was common for animals to talk to humans prior to the fall?   It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.  It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.    Also, Adam met with each of the animals to give them a name and to see if they were suitable for his helper.  Is it conceivable that he was able to speak to them during this meeting time?

Thought about this today and wanted to get some other opinions.

 

 

================================================================================================

 

Nachash can mean "Shining One":  http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/serpent.htm

 

 

(2 Corinthians 11:14) "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

 

(Ezekiel 28:13) "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

 

All those stones refract Light

 

 

Not tied to it, found it interesting.

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Do you think it was common for animals to talk to humans prior to the fall?   It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.  It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.    Also, Adam met with each of the animals to give them a name and to see if they were suitable for his helper.  Is it conceivable that he was able to speak to them during this meeting time?

Thought about this today and wanted to get some other opinions.

 

 

================================================================================================

 

Nachash can mean "Shining One":  http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/serpent.htm

 

 

(2 Corinthians 11:14) "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

 

(Ezekiel 28:13) "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

 

All those stones refract Light

 

 

Not tied to it, found it interesting.

 

Hmmm.  I am really not sure how this is remotely relevant to the question.  I know you said it wasn't tied to it; but I assumed they were tied at least a little to the question.

 

Not an insult to you: my guess is I am missing the connection.  Please explain.

clb

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Hmmm.  I am really not sure how this is remotely relevant to the question.  I know you said it wasn't tied to it; but I assumed they were tied at least a little to the question.

 

Not an insult to you: my guess is I am missing the connection.  Please explain.

clb

 

 

 

=============================================================================

 

 

How about these statements in the OP:

 

It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.

It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.

 

 

It may not have been a SERPENT/SNAKE talking to her.

 

Help?

 

See the relevance now?

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Hmmm.  I am really not sure how this is remotely relevant to the question.  I know you said it wasn't tied to it; but I assumed they were tied at least a little to the question.

 

Not an insult to you: my guess is I am missing the connection.  Please explain.

clb

 

 

 

=============================================================================

 

 

How about these statements in the OP:

 

It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.

It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.

 

 

It may not have been a SERPENT/SNAKE talking to her.

 

Help?

 

See the relevance now?

 

Why would it describe it as a serpent?

 

clb

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Why would it describe it as a serpent?

clb

 

 

 

List the descriptors?

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Hmmm.  I am really not sure how this is remotely relevant to the question.  I know you said it wasn't tied to it; but I assumed they were tied at least a little to the question.

 

Not an insult to you: my guess is I am missing the connection.  Please explain.

clb

 

 

 

=============================================================================

 

 

How about these statements in the OP:

 

It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.

It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.

 

 

It may not have been a SERPENT/SNAKE talking to her.

 

Help?

 

See the relevance now?

 

 

Wait...so we don't need to take that part of Genesis as literal?

 

So why is it that "serpent" might not mean a literal animal, but "day" MUST mean a literal 24 hour period?

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Enoch,  Interesting ideas.  I would say on the surface that it is these verses that make me think it was just an animal...

 

Gen 3;1 now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?  

 

This verse would seem to indicate it was one of the beast that God had made.

 

Gen 3: 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

 

And this one as well.  But it is something that bears further research.  Thanks for the alternative view.

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Hmmm.  I am really not sure how this is remotely relevant to the question.  I know you said it wasn't tied to it; but I assumed they were tied at least a little to the question.

 

Not an insult to you: my guess is I am missing the connection.  Please explain.

clb

 

 

 

=============================================================================

 

 

How about these statements in the OP:

 

It is not recorded that Eve was surprised by the serpent talking to her.

It seems that if animals didn't talk that a talking serpent would have been an odd thing.

 

 

It may not have been a SERPENT/SNAKE talking to her.

 

Help?

 

See the relevance now?

 

 

Wait...so we don't need to take that part of Genesis as literal?

 

So why is it that "serpent" might not mean a literal animal, but "day" MUST mean a literal 24 hour period?

 

 

Now that is a good question.

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Wait...so we don't need to take that part of Genesis as literal?

 

So why is it that "serpent" might not mean a literal animal, but "day" MUST mean a literal 24 hour period?

 

 

 

==============================================================

 

 

Wait so......R U Kiddin with this? 

 

It is Literal Sheniy....it's the Hebrew Word Nachash.  YOM turns out to mean "DAY"

 

 

Did Jonah stay in the Belly of the great Fish for 3 "DAYS"  or 3 Billion Years?

 

Did the Israelite's March around Jericho once each day for 7 days or once each day for 7 Thousand/Billion Years??

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Now that is a good question.

 

 

This does not surprise me @ all

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Enoch,  Interesting ideas.  I would say on the surface that it is these verses that make me think it was just an animal...

 

Gen 3;1 now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?  

 

This verse would seem to indicate it was one of the beast that God had made.

 

Gen 3: 14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

 

And this one as well.  But it is something that bears further research.  Thanks for the alternative view.

 

 

Yes but..................

 

(2 Corinthians 11:14) "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

 

This is telling me he can transform @ will. 

 

And that Ezekiel passage is very very interesting....especially in Eden and all.

 

 

Like I said, I'm not tied to it.

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Wait...so we don't need to take that part of Genesis as literal?

 

So why is it that "serpent" might not mean a literal animal, but "day" MUST mean a literal 24 hour period?

 

 

 

==============================================================

 

 

Wait so......R U Kiddin with this? 

 

It is Literal Sheniy....it's the Hebrew Word Nachash.  YOM turns out to mean "DAY"

 

 

Did Jonah stay in the Belly of the great Fish for 3 "DAYS"  or 3 Billion Years?

 

Did the Israelite's March around Jericho once each day for 7 days or once each day for 7 Thousand/Billion Years??

 

 

 

You do know that the same word "yom" has many other meanings and uses than just a 24 hour period in the bible?  right?  Going by this view you seem to be putting forth we have to consider them all to be 24 hour periods. 

 

Gen 2:4...These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (yom) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

 

so, which 24 hour period is this use of yom referring to.

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Why would it describe it as a serpent?

clb

 

 

 

List the descriptors?

 

Uhh.. Look at the Hebrew.

 

Your point is that Satan turned himself into a Serpent.  That doesn't alter the problem.  WE have a snake talking and Eve is not surprised. If Satan possessed my parents' cat and it started talking, I would still be extremely surprised.  And if I knew nothing about Satan or possessions, I would have NO EXPLANATION.

 

clb

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You do know that the same word "yom" has many other meanings and uses than just a 24 hour period in the bible?  right?  Going by this view you seem to be putting forth we have to consider them all to be 24 hour periods. 

 

Gen 2:4...These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (yom) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

 

so, which 24 hour period is this use of yom referring to.

 

 

=======================================================================

 

 

Go back and review the past 30-80 OP's you'll find my answer in there about 100-200 times (I'm low-balling)

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Now that is a good question.

 

 

This does not surprise me @ all

 

 

It should not, I am big fan of consistency and this seems a bit inconsistent.

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Why would it describe it as a serpent?

clb

 

 

 

List the descriptors?

 

Uhh.. Look at the Hebrew.

 

Your point is that Satan turned himself into a Serpent.  That doesn't alter the problem.  WE have a snake talking and Eve is not surprised. If Satan possessed my parents' cat and it started talking, I would still be extremely surprised.  And if I knew nothing about Satan or possessions, I would have NO EXPLANATION.

 

clb

 

 

===========================================================================

 

 

I actually have to spend 5-10 posts on this guys really.

 

Are you serious or are you purposely just trying to irritate me.  I'm REALLY hoping it's the latter.

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You do know that the same word "yom" has many other meanings and uses than just a 24 hour period in the bible?  right?  Going by this view you seem to be putting forth we have to consider them all to be 24 hour periods. 

 

Gen 2:4...These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (yom) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

 

so, which 24 hour period is this use of yom referring to.

 

 

=======================================================================

 

 

Go back and review the past 30-80 OP's you'll find my answer in there about 100-200 times (I'm low-balling)

 

 

Just for brevity sake, you are admitting that "yom" can mean more than a 24 hour period?  Is that correct.

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You do know that the same word "yom" has many other meanings and uses than just a 24 hour period in the bible?  right?  Going by this view you seem to be putting forth we have to consider them all to be 24 hour periods. 

 

Gen 2:4...These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (yom) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

 

so, which 24 hour period is this use of yom referring to.

 

 

=======================================================================

 

 

Go back and review the past 30-80 OP's you'll find my answer in there about 100-200 times (I'm low-balling)

 

 

Just for brevity sake, you are admitting that "yom" can mean more than a 24 hour period?  Is that correct.

 

 

========================================================================================

 

 

LFA I'm actually done playing these games from this point forward...on each and every thread.

 

 

If I feel that the question or request isn't legitimate; that is: Hasn't been discussed @ length, lacks the thought of a common ground squirrel, implied insult, or any other shenanigans (Catch All) .

 

You'll see this......

 

"No Comment"

 

I think it's reasonable

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Nope.

 

Not gonna buy any of that.  You have completely evaded the issue and done so in such a way to make it sound as if I've made an idiotic point.  No, No, No.  Show me the idiocy.

 

Your thesis is that the serpent in Genesis 3 is really a fallen angel.  The Hebrew of Genesis 3 clearly refers to the serpent as a "beast of the field".  This is not a fallen angel.  Even if it were Satan disguised as a fallen angel, it would say "Now Satan disguised himself as an angel." If JOhn Milton can make this clear (although I believe he has Satan coerce a snake to speak) then the author of Genesis can as well.  

 

However, it is possible I have mistaken the OP (what does that stand for anyway?  Opener?) Here is how I took it: Eve believes she is talking to a snake.  LFA is asking why she is not surprised at the fact that a snake is talking to her.  Did creatures talk back then as they do in Narnia (Sheniy's point)?  You bring in the point about Satan disguising himself in Light.  I figured you meant that Satan had disguised himself as a snake.  But that would only alter LFA's question if Eve knew she was talking to an entity disguised as a snake.  There is no indication in the Hebrew that this is so.  She is talking to what she believes to be a snake and what is in fact described as a snake.

 

clb

Edited by ConnorLiamBrown
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Wait...so we don't need to take that part of Genesis as literal?

So why is it that "serpent" might not mean a literal animal, but "day" MUST mean a literal 24 hour period?

==============================================================

Wait so......R U Kiddin with this?

It is Literal Sheniy....it's the Hebrew Word Nachash. YOM turns out to mean "DAY"

 

Hey, Enoch, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause everyone to jump on you like that. What I was gonna say originally was "Hey, that's an interesting theory, Enoch! Let's look into it," but the other thing came out instead. Oops! :D

LFA has a point, though. Your rules on interpreting Genesis do seem inconsistent. Let me explain.

You and Shiloh have made it abundantly clear that only a plain reading (every word understood as is) is correct, and nothing can be added to or taken away. There can be no explosion into existence in Chapter 1 verse 1 because it is merely speculation, and yom MUST be interpreted as one 24 hour day for each day of creation, et cetera.

Tracking with me so far? Okay. We all know where you stand on this; we've discussed it ad nauseam.

But then you say this:

 

It may not have been a SERPENT/SNAKE talking to her.

However, according to strong's, the word nachash means "serpent". That's it. The word appears in the KJV 31 times, and each time it is translated as "serpent". It is what it is. At least with yom, there's a much broader meaning.

I even checked the root word nachach, and that means "divination", or "observe an omen or sign". I don't see anything about shining. Nothing. I'm not a Hebrew scholar, and Strong's might not be the final word on translations, but that's not my point.

My point is this: a PLAIN READING of the Word of God would indicate that Eve was talking to an actual snake. It was "more crafty than any of the other animals" (Gen 3:1), which further implies that it was an animal.

You also suggested that Satan merely transformed into a snake, which is an interesting point. However, there is no mention of this in Genesis 3, and, according to your rules of interpretation, that would be adding to the text, and must be dismissed as speculation (you have made it very clear to me that speculating is not allowed).

Sorry if I backed you into a corner!  I don't follow your rules of interpretation, so I'm going to look into your theory further.  You're welcome to join us in speculating.  It is really kind of fun.

 

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