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Sex scandals in the Church

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Why is this such a huge problem, especially among those who preach against premarital sex, adultery, etc., the most?

 

‘Survivor’ Bloggers Join Forces to Reveal Christian Fundamentalist Abuses

 

:thumbsup:

 

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matthew 24:12

 

Many fundamentalist communities control their members by isolating them and strictly regulating behavior—especially controlling the flow of information from the outside world and between people. Bob Jones University, for example, forbids students from listening to certain music, filters their internet use, and prohibits certain magazine subscriptions. At Pensacola Christian College, students are banned from watching any television or unapproved movies. A 2006 Chronicle of Higher Education article said the college allowed students to visit only a few hundred websites and that it strictly censored even the books and magazines in its library.

 

The internet, especially when accessed through smartphones that can circumvent draconian internet filters and surreptitiously record internal proceedings, has broken down these barriers. Camille K. Lewis, a former faculty member of Bob Jones University, told The Daily Beast that the university’s administration banned a range of sites, from Wikipedia to Dilbert cartoons, but students are now able to easily circumvent those restrictions. “You have kids reading the New York Times (heaven forbid) and watching Glee (oh, horrors), and then on Facebook reading what other people are saying,” she said. “It’s more people saying the Emperor has no clothes.”

 

Many of the people who run the watchdog sites act as reporters who interview, document, aggregate, and break news about the leaders and institutions they’ve left behind.  

 

One of the most intriguing facts of Bill Gothard’s demise was that some of the allegations that contributed to his downfall this month originally came to light decades ago, and even led to a 17-day hiatus from power in 1980. But it wasn’t until 34 years later, when the blog Recovering Grace posted a deeply-reported exposé of Gothard’s alleged pattern of sexual harassment and sexual contact with a minor, that he was finally forced to resign. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/23/survivor-bloggers-join-forces-to-reveal-christian-fundamentalist-abuses.html

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Because we are living in a world full of temptations, where the devil and a third of the angels that follow him spend all their time gong around trying to get people to fall.  I can't give a definitive answer to Nebula's question, but I can give an opinion.  Satan hates everyone, and he wants us all to fall flat on our faces and wind up spending eternity in hell, but just like an army goes after the people doing the most harm to them and makes them a priority, it stands to reason Satan will do the same thing.  When the settlers were at war with the Indians, they would target the Chief.  When an army is at war, they will kill anyone on the other side, but they love to go after those with higher ranks first.  Satan would most likely try to take out those who are doing the most damage to his Kingdom. 

 

If I was in Satan's place, who would I target first?  I would go after preachers that were attacking my Kingdom and what I stand for the strongest.  I would go after the Jerry Fallwells, the Jimmy Swaggarts, the John Hagees, etc.  I would be happy to harm people like Chuck Swindoll, but he wouldn't be my first priority.  I would go after those standing the strongest against sin, and unleash all the forces of hell against them. 

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The article does mention one case where a minister resigned after admitting to adultery, but one thing I do want to say about this article is I see all types of open doors for lies to take place.  Unless there is actual proof, meaning an admission of guilt or a conviction in a court of law, I don't accept any of the allegations.  Anonymous accusations by bloggers means nothing.  Satan loves to bring false accusations against ministers of God.  I would take everything with a grain of salt unless there is proof. 

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Why is this such a huge problem, especially among those who preach against premarital sex, adultery, etc., the most?

 

‘Survivor’ Bloggers Join Forces to Reveal Christian Fundamentalist Abuses

no fear of God...they don't understand...The Bible is a love story....and also a horror story... Revelation ...Wrath of Almighty God....most people don't believe it will happen. A lot of Christians don't see God as a God of War and Justice.

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Why is this such a huge problem, especially among those who preach against premarital sex, adultery, etc., the most?

 

‘Survivor’ Bloggers Join Forces to Reveal Christian Fundamentalist Abuses

no fear of God...they don't understand...The Bible is a love story....and also a horror story... Revelation ...Wrath of Almighty God....most people don't believe it will happen. A lot of Christians don't see God as a God of War and Justice.

 

This is only speculation, but I am trying to place myself in the mind of someone who is a conservative evangelical and a believer in eternal security.  Lets say I am a believer in eternal security and I am tempted with an attractive woman.  I go ahead and cheat, figuring we all sin.  Sin is sin.  Little ones are as bad as big ones.  We are saved by grace, not by following the law.  Sometimes we just give in when we are tempted.  God understands.  On the other hand, if I am an evangelical and I am tempted with an attractive woman, I know that my failures could lead me to hell, but I figure that after I cheat, I will likely have time to confess the sin and make things right with God.  I put it out of my mind that I might not get that chance.  Then there is that in-between group of evangelicals that don't believe in eternal security, but they believe that losing salvation takes time, and one sinful act won't cost them salvation.  They figure they will make things right later on, and that one indiscretion won't cost them their salvation.  It all depends on your perspective, but nearly anyone can come up with excuses to make what they know is wrong ok. 

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because, people are sexual creatures. And people in the church, are just as apt to temptation as those outside the church, only difference is when those outside the church fall into it, its expected-when those in the church who claim righteousness fall into it, its a big deal.

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The article does mention one case where a minister resigned after admitting to adultery, but one thing I do want to say about this article is I see all types of open doors for lies to take place. Unless there is actual proof, meaning an admission of guilt or a conviction in a court of law, I don't accept any of the allegations. Anonymous accusations by bloggers means nothing. Satan loves to bring false accusations against ministers of God. I would take everything with a grain of salt unless there is proof.

 

Institutions need to create structures within which there are clear checks on and scrutiny of those with power, as it's absurd to believe that those in authority are free from temptation. Intelligent abusers do their best to eliminate proof, that's not an excuse for blaming the victims.

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Because Satan is in our Churches.

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This is only speculation, but I am trying to place myself in the mind of someone who is a conservative evangelical and a believer in eternal security.  Lets say I am a believer in eternal security and I am tempted with an attractive woman.  I go ahead and cheat, figuring we all sin.  Sin is sin.  Little ones are as bad as big ones.  We are saved by grace, not by following the law.  Sometimes we just give in when we are tempted.  God understands.  On the other hand, if I am an evangelical and I am tempted with an attractive woman, I know that my failures could lead me to hell, but I figure that after I cheat, I will likely have time to confess the sin and make things right with God.  I put it out of my mind that I might not get that chance.  Then there is that in-between group of evangelicals that don't believe in eternal security, but they believe that losing salvation takes time, and one sinful act won't cost them salvation.  They figure they will make things right later on, and that one indiscretion won't cost them their salvation.  It all depends on your perspective, but nearly anyone can come up with excuses to make what they know is wrong ok.

 

If someone's motivation for sin vs. not sin is about saving one's own derriere, this person has a bigger problem than the sin temptation.

 

The question ought not to be, "Will I go to Hell or not?" The question ought to be, "Is this loving towards God to do this?" Likewise, "Is this loving towards my brothers and sisters in Christ to do this?"

 

The person who cares only about their eternal fate is acting very selfishly, and is denying the power of the Cross in their lives to transform them.

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Because people do not heed the Bible's admonition to run from temptations.  We all want to believe we are strong enough to resist instead of running from the thing that tempts us.  We rely on our own understanding and strength instead of God's wisdom.

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This is only speculation, but I am trying to place myself in the mind of someone who is a conservative evangelical and a believer in eternal security.  Lets say I am a believer in eternal security and I am tempted with an attractive woman.  I go ahead and cheat, figuring we all sin.  Sin is sin.  Little ones are as bad as big ones.  We are saved by grace, not by following the law.  Sometimes we just give in when we are tempted.  God understands.  On the other hand, if I am an evangelical and I am tempted with an attractive woman, I know that my failures could lead me to hell, but I figure that after I cheat, I will likely have time to confess the sin and make things right with God.  I put it out of my mind that I might not get that chance.  Then there is that in-between group of evangelicals that don't believe in eternal security, but they believe that losing salvation takes time, and one sinful act won't cost them salvation.  They figure they will make things right later on, and that one indiscretion won't cost them their salvation.  It all depends on your perspective, but nearly anyone can come up with excuses to make what they know is wrong ok.

 

If someone's motivation for sin vs. not sin is about saving one's own derriere, this person has a bigger problem than the sin temptation.

 

The question ought not to be, "Will I go to Hell or not?" The question ought to be, "Is this loving towards God to do this?" Likewise, "Is this loving towards my brothers and sisters in Christ to do this?"

 

The person who cares only about their eternal fate is acting very selfishly, and is denying the power of the Cross in their lives to transform them.

 

I know this may come as a shock to you, but not everyone looks at things like you do.  There are many people that are highly motivated by fear of judgment, and that is a healthy fear to have.  You call such individuals selfish.  Have you ever read in Romans about how we have freedom to do all kinds of things, but if it offends our brothers or sisters, we shouldn't do it.  I could argue all the people that do things they know are offensive to others are selfish.  We are not all in the same place, and we are not all motivated by the same things, and while in your mind, not doing something just because of how it effects others might be the ideal, sometimes concern for self is more powerful.  At the time when a man or woman is filled with lust, they aren't thinking about those things.  They are blocking them out on purpose.  They are lying to themselves.  They are trying to convince themselves that what they are about to do is not really any worse than what the next fellow does, and God understands we are human.  They might even compare themselves to King David and his failures. 

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This is only speculation, but I am trying to place myself in the mind of someone who is a conservative evangelical and a believer in eternal security.  Lets say I am a believer in eternal security and I am tempted with an attractive woman.  I go ahead and cheat, figuring we all sin.  Sin is sin.  Little ones are as bad as big ones.  We are saved by grace, not by following the law.  Sometimes we just give in when we are tempted.  God understands.  On the other hand, if I am an evangelical and I am tempted with an attractive woman, I know that my failures could lead me to hell, but I figure that after I cheat, I will likely have time to confess the sin and make things right with God.  I put it out of my mind that I might not get that chance.  Then there is that in-between group of evangelicals that don't believe in eternal security, but they believe that losing salvation takes time, and one sinful act won't cost them salvation.  They figure they will make things right later on, and that one indiscretion won't cost them their salvation.  It all depends on your perspective, but nearly anyone can come up with excuses to make what they know is wrong ok.

 

If someone's motivation for sin vs. not sin is about saving one's own derriere, this person has a bigger problem than the sin temptation.

 

The question ought not to be, "Will I go to Hell or not?" The question ought to be, "Is this loving towards God to do this?" Likewise, "Is this loving towards my brothers and sisters in Christ to do this?"

 

The person who cares only about their eternal fate is acting very selfishly, and is denying the power of the Cross in their lives to transform them.

 

I know this may come as a shock to you, but not everyone looks at things like you do.  There are many people that are highly motivated by fear of judgment, and that is a healthy fear to have.  You call such individuals selfish.  Have you ever read in Romans about how we have freedom to do all kinds of things, but if it offends our brothers or sisters, we shouldn't do it.  I could argue all the people that do things they know are offensive to others are selfish.  We are not all in the same place, and we are not all motivated by the same things, and while in your mind, not doing something just because of how it effects others might be the ideal, sometimes concern for self is more powerful.  At the time when a man or woman is filled with lust, they aren't thinking about those things.  They are blocking them out on purpose.  They are lying to themselves.  They are trying to convince themselves that what they are about to do is not really any worse than what the next fellow does, and God understands we are human.  They might even compare themselves to King David and his failures. 

 

If that is your statement then you are not walking away from God you are running.........

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This is only speculation, but I am trying to place myself in the mind of someone who is a conservative evangelical and a believer in eternal security.  Lets say I am a believer in eternal security and I am tempted with an attractive woman.  I go ahead and cheat, figuring we all sin.  Sin is sin.  Little ones are as bad as big ones.  We are saved by grace, not by following the law.  Sometimes we just give in when we are tempted.  God understands.  On the other hand, if I am an evangelical and I am tempted with an attractive woman, I know that my failures could lead me to hell, but I figure that after I cheat, I will likely have time to confess the sin and make things right with God.  I put it out of my mind that I might not get that chance.  Then there is that in-between group of evangelicals that don't believe in eternal security, but they believe that losing salvation takes time, and one sinful act won't cost them salvation.  They figure they will make things right later on, and that one indiscretion won't cost them their salvation.  It all depends on your perspective, but nearly anyone can come up with excuses to make what they know is wrong ok.

 

If someone's motivation for sin vs. not sin is about saving one's own derriere, this person has a bigger problem than the sin temptation.

 

The question ought not to be, "Will I go to Hell or not?" The question ought to be, "Is this loving towards God to do this?" Likewise, "Is this loving towards my brothers and sisters in Christ to do this?"

 

The person who cares only about their eternal fate is acting very selfishly, and is denying the power of the Cross in their lives to transform them.

 

I know this may come as a shock to you, but not everyone looks at things like you do.  There are many people that are highly motivated by fear of judgment, and that is a healthy fear to have.  You call such individuals selfish.  Have you ever read in Romans about how we have freedom to do all kinds of things, but if it offends our brothers or sisters, we shouldn't do it.  I could argue all the people that do things they know are offensive to others are selfish.  We are not all in the same place, and we are not all motivated by the same things, and while in your mind, not doing something just because of how it effects others might be the ideal, sometimes concern for self is more powerful.  At the time when a man or woman is filled with lust, they aren't thinking about those things.  They are blocking them out on purpose.  They are lying to themselves.  They are trying to convince themselves that what they are about to do is not really any worse than what the next fellow does, and God understands we are human.  They might even compare themselves to King David and his failures. 

 

If that is your statement then you are not walking away from God you are running.........

 

You would be surprised how many people I have encountered over the years that excuse sin just like that.  I have been in church for many years, and I have encountered all kinds of people.  I was even in a position at a ministry that had a sex scandal take place.  I wasn't involved in the scandal, but I was close to people that were.  You would be surprised how many times I heard about the failures of King David, and how he was still mentioned as a "man after God's own heart." 

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Why is this such a huge problem, especially among those who preach against premarital sex, adultery, etc., the most?

 

‘Survivor’ Bloggers Join Forces to Reveal Christian Fundamentalist Abuses

There are a myriad of reasons depending on the situation.

 

In my Church we don't allow any kind of cross-gender ministry.  Women counsel women. Men counsel men. We maintain separate men aind women's ministries.

 

The ministry team of Billy Graham Evangelistic Ministries, when they first started out in the 1940's, made a pact with one another and God that they would not be alone with a woman other than their wives.   Billy Graham, Cliff Barrows, George Beverly Shea and Grady Wilson kept that pact their entire lives.  Billy Graham would not even stand in an elevator alone with a woman. 

 

You don't have that kind of integrity anymore in minsistry these days, it seems.

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Why is this such a huge problem, especially among those who preach against premarital sex, adultery, etc., the most?

 

‘Survivor’ Bloggers Join Forces to Reveal Christian Fundamentalist Abuses

There are a myriad of reasons depending on the situation.

 

In my Church we don't allow any kind of cross-gender ministry.  Women counsel women. Men counsel men. We maintain separate men aind women's ministries.

 

The ministry team of Billy Graham Evangelistic Ministries, when they first started out in the 1940's, made a pact with one another and God that they would not be alone with a woman other than their wives.   Billy Graham, Cliff Barrows, George Beverly Shea and Grady Wilson kept that pact their entire lives.  Billy Graham would not even stand in an elevator alone with a woman. 

 

You don't have that kind of integrity anymore in minsistry these days, it seems.

 

I think that is great.I have read this on line about Billy Graham and his team and their pact with women.Yes,it is unheard of today.

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Because Satan is in our Churches.

 

That is one of the most intelligent and truthful responses I have seen anywhere in a very long time!

 

Thank you for blessing me. I have been really discouraged that the whole world is blind to this simple fact.

 

And this is why I am (true to my mission statement under my avatar) trying to get the Church back to the Hebrew Roots (by way of back to the Bible as the authority).

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Because Satan is in our Churches.

 

That is one of the most intelligent and truthful responses I have seen anywhere in a very long time!

 

Thank you for blessing me. I have been really discouraged that the whole world is blind to this simple fact.

 

And this is why I am (true to my mission statement under my avatar) trying to get the Church back to the Hebrew Roots (by way of back to the Bible as the authority).

 

That is quite a task for one man.I can not see it happening until our Lord returns,

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I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee state that the day Constantine "legalized" Christianity was the day the devil joined the Church. I was unable to record it, looked for it everywhere, but was unable to find it.

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Because Satan is in our Churches.

 

That is one of the most intelligent and truthful responses I have seen anywhere in a very long time!

 

Thank you for blessing me. I have been really discouraged that the whole world is blind to this simple fact.

 

And this is why I am (true to my mission statement under my avatar) trying to get the Church back to the Hebrew Roots (by way of back to the Bible as the authority).

 

That is quite a task for one man.I can not see it happening until our Lord returns,

 

 

It's not just one man. But even if... it's actually God doing it through one man whoever that man or woman may be. I'm not saying he is through me, it's just a strong desire I have to try.

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I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee state that the day Constantine "legalized" Christianity was the day the devil joined the Church. I was unable to record it, looked for it everywhere, but was unable to find it.

I love to listen to Dr.J.Vernon McGee  :mgcheerful:

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For those scratching their heads about now...

 

The teachings of God were brought out most poignantly when our Lord Jesus walked the earth. The contrasts of scripture culminate in his teachings. There are only two ways in heaven and earth:

 

1. God's way

2. not God's way

 

There is an innumerable amount of varieties of "not God's way..." but all are under the heading of not God's way just the same.

 

A prime example is when Peter blessed the Lord with his revelation "Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God" one minute and the next minute he was called Satan by the Lord (Matthew 16:13-23). The difference being one minute he was going by the Spirit and the next minute by the flesh.

 

And that's really the rub with all matters and teachings of God, isn't it?

 

The flesh is weak even when the spirit is willing. The flesh counts for nothing. My words are spirit and they are life.

 

Getting back to the OP...

 

The Church has been veering off course since Roman dominated / hijacked the Church in the 4th Century CE. It is no wonder the heinous and evil things that have happened in a compromised Church with severe identity crisis and amnesia at times. The wonder of it all is when things go right in the compromised Church. 

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I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee state that the day Constantine "legalized" Christianity was the day the devil joined the Church. I was unable to record it, looked for it everywhere, but was unable to find it.

I love to listen to Dr.J.Vernon McGee  :mgcheerful:

 

 

He was and is such a blessing.

 

He studied and went to seminary and did the church pastoral gig for many years (the Church of the Open Door in Downtown L.A. was his last Church). But his true outreach (and IMHO his fulfilled calling) was in his retirement years when he sat in his study and with an open Bible recorded what is now the 5 year Through the Bible program.

 

Dr. McGee went home to be with the Lord in 1985. But his teaching and outreach lives on today. I heard him late the other night when I was on break at my second job and it touched my spirit like nothing has in a long time.

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This is only speculation, but I am trying to place myself in the mind of someone who is a conservative evangelical and a believer in eternal security.  Lets say I am a believer in eternal security and I am tempted with an attractive woman.  I go ahead and cheat, figuring we all sin.  Sin is sin.  Little ones are as bad as big ones.  We are saved by grace, not by following the law.  Sometimes we just give in when we are tempted.  God understands.  On the other hand, if I am an evangelical and I am tempted with an attractive woman, I know that my failures could lead me to hell, but I figure that after I cheat, I will likely have time to confess the sin and make things right with God.  I put it out of my mind that I might not get that chance.  Then there is that in-between group of evangelicals that don't believe in eternal security, but they believe that losing salvation takes time, and one sinful act won't cost them salvation.  They figure they will make things right later on, and that one indiscretion won't cost them their salvation.  It all depends on your perspective, but nearly anyone can come up with excuses to make what they know is wrong ok.

If someone's motivation for sin vs. not sin is about saving one's own derriere, this person has a bigger problem than the sin temptation.

 

The question ought not to be, "Will I go to Hell or not?" The question ought to be, "Is this loving towards God to do this?" Likewise, "Is this loving towards my brothers and sisters in Christ to do this?"

 

The person who cares only about their eternal fate is acting very selfishly, and is denying the power of the Cross in their lives to transform them.

 

I know this may come as a shock to you, but not everyone looks at things like you do.

 

Why the snide remark?

 

There are many people that are highly motivated by fear of judgment, and that is a healthy fear to have.  You call such individuals selfish.  Have you ever read in Romans about how we have freedom to do all kinds of things, but if it offends our brothers or sisters, we shouldn't do it.  I could argue all the people that do things they know are offensive to others are selfish.  We are not all in the same place, and we are not all motivated by the same things, and while in your mind, not doing something just because of how it effects others might be the ideal, sometimes concern for self is more powerful.

How sad to not have encountered the love of God such that one is motivated by what pleases Him and what will draw them closer to Him, or what will pull them from Him.

Is the power of the cross so nullified?

 

At the time when a man or woman is filled with lust, they aren't thinking about those things.  They are blocking them out on purpose.  They are lying to themselves.  They are trying to convince themselves that what they are about to do is not really any worse than what the next fellow does, and God understands we are human.  They might even compare themselves to King David and his failures.

That isn't loving God, that is foolishness.

 

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Because Satan is in our Churches.

 

That is one of the most intelligent and truthful responses I have seen anywhere in a very long time!

 

Thank you for blessing me. I have been really discouraged that the whole world is blind to this simple fact.

 

And this is why I am (true to my mission statement under my avatar) trying to get the Church back to the Hebrew Roots (by way of back to the Bible as the authority).

 

 

Of course the devil is active where believers gather.  I certainly agree with that statement...however, the devil is also in shopping malls, movie theaters, kindergarten and the pet store.

 

He is the god of this world.

 

The devil is not the problem...the problem is Christians who don't know what they believe and go to church once a week and get spoon fed and then try to put the pieces together like a puzzle.

 

Let's not blame the devil....he doesn't 'make' anyone do anything...we are led astray by our own sin and sinful choices

 

People fall into sin when they put their hands over their ears, not because the devil is sticking them in the derriere with a pitchfork and forcing them to do acts in defiance of God

 

I don't know what to say here....really   :17:

 

There is nothing new under the sun

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