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Hour of Trial (Rev. 3:10)

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I thought this might be an interesting subject to kick around.   Any thoughts on what the (hour of trial) is and/or how long it will last in the passage below?

Revelation 3:7-13 (NKJV)
(7) “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,

‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: (8) “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. (9) Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. (10) Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (11) Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. (12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

(13) “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

 
Cheers

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Imo, when Mystery Babylon falls, the Philadelphia church is gathered in the wilderness.  Unfortunately, the tares and others are gathered also, and then Babylon is 'rebooted'.  The Laodicean church (which possibly includes some Jews) wants back into Babylon.  At this stage, there is no overt worshipping of the person in charge that 'saved their llves'.  Maybe the Red Cross gives out new ID numbers for the millions of survivors that will form the basis for the new govt. in the US ("cyber-attacks" "destroyed" our "social security number system").

 

Since the Philadelphia church isn't going back into the system to begin with, they are spared the "hour of trial" (the decision to take the mark of the beast) - people who are let into the new system are greeted with the eventual "strings attached" to the new system -" it's our god who saved you, so get with the program and worship him or we'll kill you."

 

Just brainstorming here.

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

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Thunder

 

I think that the Churches of today worldwide have a mixture of what was written to the seven Churches.  None are exempt.  So the letter written to the Church in Philadelphia should be intertwined in most all Churches.  So it maybe written to those members who fit this letter.

 

Now the "Hour of Trial" which is going to come upon the whole earth, is of issue here.  Two perspectives, I believe, are:  First - The entire 70th week of Daniel or Second - the  Last half of the 70th week of Daniel.

 

Pre-trib votes for the entire week.  Mid-trib or pre-wrath vote for the last half of the week.  I don't see a post-trib position here.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Imo, when Mystery Babylon falls, the Philadelphia church is gathered in the wilderness.  Unfortunately, the tares and others are gathered also, and then Babylon is 'rebooted'.  The Laodicean church (which possibly includes some Jews) wants back into Babylon.  At this stage, there is no overt worshipping of the person in charge that 'saved their llves'.  Maybe the Red Cross gives out new ID numbers for the millions of survivors that will form the basis for the new govt. in the US ("cyber-attacks" "destroyed" our "social security number system").

 

Since the Philadelphia church isn't going back into the system to begin with, they are spared the "hour of trial" (the decision to take the mark of the beast) - people who are let into the new system are greeted with the eventual "strings attached" to the new system -" it's our god who saved you, so get with the program and worship him or we'll kill you."

 

Just brainstorming here.

Hey tranquil,

I'm not sure about some of the things you said, but I think you're on to something with the mark of the beast here. :thumbsup:

Cheers

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

Greetings bopeep,

One of these days we may actually agree on something, but today is not that day. I read my Bible literally too, but I do not assume the hour of trial is the tribulation, nor does that assumption support a pre-tribulation rapture. :read: :read: :read:

Cheers

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I thought this might be an interesting subject to kick around.   Any thoughts on what the (hour of trial) is in the passage below and/or how long it will last?

Revelation 3:7-13 (NKJV)

(7) “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,

‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: (8) “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. (9) Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. (10) Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. (11) Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. (12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

(13) “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

 

Cheers

I believe its the day of wrath, the day of the Lord. We will be raptured on that day... and not experience the wrath of God, the great earthquake that removes every mountain and island, the hailstones, the destruction of the armies at Armageddon. The judgment on the nations, some reduced to lakes of fire, others becoming a desert wasteland. Nations humbled before God.

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away 

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Thunder

 

I think that the Churches of today worldwide have a mixture of what was written to the seven Churches.  None are exempt.  So the letter written to the Church in Philadelphia should be intertwined in most all Churches.  So it maybe written to those members who fit this letter.

 

Now the "Hour of Trial" which is going to come upon the whole earth, is of issue here.  Two perspectives, I believe, are:  First - The entire 70th week of Daniel or Second - the  Last half of the 70th week of Daniel.

 

Pre-trib votes for the entire week.  Mid-trib or pre-wrath vote for the last half of the week.  I don't see a post-trib position here.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

You still cannot prove the 70 th week in revelation 

 

the 70 th week has already been fullfilled 

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Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Daniel 9:24

King James Version (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

Notice that seventy weeks were determined upon the Jewish people and upon the Holy City Jerusalem to bring about six important conditions as mentioned in this verse. 

 
When prophecies are given in relation to days, it has been definitely proven by passing events, that we must take each day for a year in their correct application. The prophet Ezekiel gives us this instruction chapter 4, verses 5 and 6. 
 
 chapter 7  the 1,260-day period applies to Rome and the work of the little horn power, the papacy
 
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Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 
Daniel 9:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandmentto restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 
This seventy-week  equals 490 years, as there are 490 days in 70 weeks. a day for a year  At the end of this 490-year period, reconciliation was to be made for iniquity, and a means provided to forgive sins, or to make an end of sins; also to anoint the Most Holy. (Jesus Christ)
 
Verse 25: The angel gave Daniel assurance that his prayers were going to be answered and a commandment would go forth sometime in the future to restore and to build Jerusalem. 
 
From the going forth of this commandment until the coming of the Messiah there was to be 69 weeks. After the "three score and two weeks" , the Messiah was to be cut off, but not for Himself. It was for others that he was to be cut off. 
 
Notice verse 26 carefully, that after He is cut off there is to be a destruction of Jerusalem and a period of desolation. 
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Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

"From the time the commandment goes forth to build Jerusalem" unto the Messiah the prince.

 

Did such a commandment go forth and under what circumstances and when? 

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

Since when does an "hour" symbolically represent 7 years rather than symbolically represent 24 hours?

If you could support your argument with scripture you could add strength to the pre-trib position, I personally see this "hour of trial" as representing the dramatic events on the day of the Lord, which we will not have to undergo because we will be raptured.

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

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Izzel

 

If the 70th Week is already completed;  When did Daniels people (Israel) and his holy city (Jerusalem)  complete the six tasks of Dan 9:24.?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 
Daniel 9:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandmentto restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 
This seventy-week  equals 490 years, as there are 490 days in 70 weeks. a day for a year  At the end of this 490-year period, reconciliation was to be made for iniquity, and a means provided to forgive sins, or to make an end of sins; also to anoint the Most Holy. (Jesus Christ)
 
Verse 25: The angel gave Daniel assurance that his prayers were going to be answered and a commandment would go forth sometime in the future to restore and to build Jerusalem. 
 
From the going forth of this commandment until the coming of the Messiah there was to be 69 weeks. After the "three score and two weeks" , the Messiah was to be cut off, but not for Himself. It was for others that he was to be cut off. 
 
Notice verse 26 carefully, that after He is cut off there is to be a destruction of Jerusalem and a period of desolation. 

 

Izzel

 

Scripture says in Dan 9:26 - After the sixty two sevens the Anointed One will be cut off.  Later there is the final seven.  v.27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven, and in the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the Temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.  Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation, spoken through the prophet Daniel, let the reader understand, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  This final seven is yet future.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

 

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

 

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

If we are talking about us as his children .. or the view of tribulation saints... its clear that God allows persecution and trials for his children. He surely does not want it, but God is aware that there is a spiritual war and evil on this earth, and we are the light within the evil environment. When light shines in the darkness it is exposed ... and in this evil world this will bring persecutions.

Verse for the great tribulation:

Dan 7 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Rev 13 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

Rev 12 she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Note in all 3 cases the church is persecuted for 3.5 years. This is a definite future event. In context these are not treated as a new holy people that is suddenly persecuted, but context seems to indicate its an existing holy people that then undergo persecution.

The bible is clear that many are martyred, and yet the bible is also clear that there are many elect that are raptured at the second coming as well. Let's not speculate about all being beheaded, the scriptures say that we wont all be beheaded. We will all be raptured when Jesus comes, the dead will rise first.

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Thunder

 

I think that the Churches of today worldwide have a mixture of what was written to the seven Churches.  None are exempt.  So the letter written to the Church in Philadelphia should be intertwined in most all Churches.  So it maybe written to those members who fit this letter.

This is good, Marv. I don't buy into the dispensationalist view, where the seven churches represent different time periods of the church age. That is rubbish. I agree with you here, the promises and warnings given to all of the seven churches still stand for all believers today, as we are still in the same age.

 

 

Now the "Hour of Trial" which is going to come upon the whole earth, is of issue here.  Two perspectives, I believe, are:  First - The entire 70th week of Daniel or Second - the  Last half of the 70th week of Daniel.

 

Pre-trib votes for the entire week.  Mid-trib or pre-wrath vote for the last half of the week.  I don't see a post-trib position here.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I differ with you here though. I'll explain what I think in the next post.

Cheers

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Before give my view, I need to do a little more study first. So I'll be back and edit this post shortly.

Cheers

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

 

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

 

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

 

If we are talking about us as his children .. or the view of tribulation saints... its clear that God allows persecution and trials for his children. He surely does not want it, but God is aware that there is a spiritual war and evil on this earth, and we are the light within the evil environment. When light shines in the darkness it is exposed ... and in this evil world this will bring persecutions.

Verse for the great tribulation:

Dan 7 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Rev 13 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

Rev 12 she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Note in all 3 cases the church is persecuted for 3.5 years. This is a definite future event. In context these are not treated as a new holy people that is suddenly persecuted, but context seems to indicate its an existing holy people that then undergo persecution.

The bible is clear that many are martyred, and yet the bible is also clear that there are many elect that are raptured at the second coming as well. Let's not speculate about all being beheaded, the scriptures say that we wont all be beheaded. We will all be raptured when Jesus comes, the dead will rise first.

 

I think God loves his children way too much to allow his children who he loves more than than we can comprehend to suffer his wrath.The Bible tells us that we will not suffer His wrath.He will not lead us into the tribulation to be slaughted like a bunch of cattle.

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

If we are talking about us as his children .. or the view of tribulation saints... its clear that God allows persecution and trials for his children. He surely does not want it, but God is aware that there is a spiritual war and evil on this earth, and we are the light within the evil environment. When light shines in the darkness it is exposed ... and in this evil world this will bring persecutions.

Verse for the great tribulation:

Dan 7 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Rev 13 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

Rev 12 she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Note in all 3 cases the church is persecuted for 3.5 years. This is a definite future event. In context these are not treated as a new holy people that is suddenly persecuted, but context seems to indicate its an existing holy people that then undergo persecution.

The bible is clear that many are martyred, and yet the bible is also clear that there are many elect that are raptured at the second coming as well. Let's not speculate about all being beheaded, the scriptures say that we wont all be beheaded. We will all be raptured when Jesus comes, the dead will rise first.

I think God loves his children way too much to allow his children who he loves more than than we can comprehend to suffer his wrath.The Bible tells us that we will not suffer His wrath.He will not lead us into the tribulation to be slaughted like a bunch of cattle.

Do you believe God loves us a lot more than your tribulation saints? There are believers who will be slaughtered, I pointed out the verses. Here's another verse:

Rev 6

I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

Rev 20

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.

Us Christians have been slaughtered for 2000 years now. Maybe you are currently living in a safe country, but I don't see the principle that you are so confidently describing as being a biblical principle. Sure we do not suffer the outpouring of wrath on the day of the Lord, but other than that God promises us persecutions repeatedly.

2 Thessalonians 1 is clear that believers who undergo persecution only receive their relief at the second coming:

God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

 

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

 

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

 

If we are talking about us as his children .. or the view of tribulation saints... its clear that God allows persecution and trials for his children. He surely does not want it, but God is aware that there is a spiritual war and evil on this earth, and we are the light within the evil environment. When light shines in the darkness it is exposed ... and in this evil world this will bring persecutions.

Verse for the great tribulation:

Dan 7 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Rev 13 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

Rev 12 she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Note in all 3 cases the church is persecuted for 3.5 years. This is a definite future event. In context these are not treated as a new holy people that is suddenly persecuted, but context seems to indicate its an existing holy people that then undergo persecution.

The bible is clear that many are martyred, and yet the bible is also clear that there are many elect that are raptured at the second coming as well. Let's not speculate about all being beheaded, the scriptures say that we wont all be beheaded. We will all be raptured when Jesus comes, the dead will rise first.

 

The 3.5 years has past already yet still the saint will be persecuted 

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This is commonly taken to refer to the tribulation.

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In Revelation 3:10,Christ promises to deliver believers from the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the earth.Christ could protect believers in the mist of trials,or He will deliver believers out of the trials.It is not just the trial,but the "hour" of trial.That would be the tribulation.The purpose of the tribulation,the purpose of the rapture,the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9,and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear to the pre-tribulation position.This is what conclusion you would come up with if you read the Bible literally.

deliverance is protection in the hour of trial on the earth for the saints not rapturing them away

 

Exactly, if you study the Greek, it can easily mean "keep you safe during the hour of trial". I personally just associate the hour of trial with the day of the Lord... but the souls of Christians will be kept safe during the tribulation even if we are physically martyred.

 

Then if all the Christians go into the tribulation we would all have our heads cut off because we would probably not take the Mark.Do you think God wants that for His children?

 

If we are talking about us as his children .. or the view of tribulation saints... its clear that God allows persecution and trials for his children. He surely does not want it, but God is aware that there is a spiritual war and evil on this earth, and we are the light within the evil environment. When light shines in the darkness it is exposed ... and in this evil world this will bring persecutions.

Verse for the great tribulation:

Dan 7 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Rev 13 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.

Rev 12 she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Note in all 3 cases the church is persecuted for 3.5 years. This is a definite future event. In context these are not treated as a new holy people that is suddenly persecuted, but context seems to indicate its an existing holy people that then undergo persecution.

The bible is clear that many are martyred, and yet the bible is also clear that there are many elect that are raptured at the second coming as well. Let's not speculate about all being beheaded, the scriptures say that we wont all be beheaded. We will all be raptured when Jesus comes, the dead will rise first.

 

The 3.5 years has past already yet still the saint will be persecuted

 

If the 3.5 years and/or 42 months have already passed, then history would have recorded the resurrection after the time of trouble (tribulation-Matt. 24:21).

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Keep studying, brother.  History has recorded no such resurrection yet.

 

By the way, this resurrection will be the same one that precedes the gathering of the elect (rapture) in (Matt. 24:29-31).  Compare Dan. 12:1 with Matt.24:21.  It's the same abomination of desolation, same tribulation, and the same resurrection/rapture.  The dead will rise first, then those who are alive will be gathered, just as the apostle Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17. 

 

Cheers

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