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Islamic group to cut crosses off NY church

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#1
OldSchool2

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SYRACUSE, N.Y. – A city board on Thursday gave a Muslim group the go-ahead to remove six crosses from the roof and spires of a century-old former Catholic church so the now-vacant Gothic structure can be used as a mosque.

More than 200 people had signed an online petition calling on the Syracuse Landmark Preservation Board to deny an application by North Side Learning Center, the church's new owner, to remove the crosses and build a six-foot chain-link fence.

Before the vote to allow the church alterations, Chairman Don Radke said the board cannot interfere with a decision that involves religious freedom ...

http://www.foxnews.c...-off-ny-church/

#2
OakWood

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They want to remove the crosses because they loathe them. The cross signifies the greatest moment in history when Jesus died for all our sins. The cross signifies salvation - something that is impossible to achieve through Islam and its false portrayal of Jesus.

Satan is having his way again, by taking a house of God and getting his pawns to vandalise it.



#3
amor

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Well, Capitalism's having it's way. The Catholics didn't want the building so they sold it to someone who did. The synagogue  in my hometown (Hounslow) was in an unwanted ex-free church and has also had it's cross removed. Apparently it's now a Montessori nursery. 



#4
OakWood

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Well, Capitalism's having it's way. The Catholics didn't want the building so they sold it to someone who did. The synagogue  in my hometown (Hounslow) was in an unwanted ex-free church and has also had it's cross removed. Apparently it's now a Montessori nursery. 

The difference is that the Jews don't revere Jesus. We know that. Therefore the cross means nothing to them. Muslims on the other hand recognise Jesus, but have falsified who he really is. They deny that he ever died on the cross, but the cross symbolises what Jesus stands for and why he came in the flesh.



#5
amor

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I'm a Quaker, you won' find crosses on our meeting houses because we reject the use of all symbols. There are plenty of other Christian groups that would see heir use as idolatrous.



#6
OakWood

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I'm a Quaker, you won' find crosses on our meeting houses because we reject the use of all symbols. There are plenty of other Christian groups that would see heir use as idolatrous.

 

I can see why the cross may be seen as being idolatrous, but it is not meant to be worshipped. It is an indicator of who you are, and in a way is no different to writing the word 'Christian church' on a church, the difference being is that it transcends all languages. It is not an icon but an avatar (for want of a better term), but because of its historical significance it has become a symbol that is loathed by all those who despise the Lord. I can see why some Christians refuse to use it and that is fine by me, but to other Christians it is a bold statement of one's faith in Christ.



#7
amor

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A little more information on the above and related issues is below

Friends Statements on the Pledge of Allegiance

"Friends refrain from taking oaths, even in courts of law. We avoid the use of symbols such as crucifixes and altars in our places of worship. Our religious practices do not include the outward administration of sacraments, which we also see as symbols and unnecessary in our relationship with God. And we hold that we may rightly pledge allegiance only to God, not to a man-made symbol representing a human institution."

[Statement to the Pennsylvania State Senate by the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) to explain our stand against use of the American Flag and the Pledge of Allegiance.]


"Quakers from their inception have been skeptical of emblems of power, such as flags or crosses or other icons symbolizing institutional or, on a greater scale, imperial presumptions of loyalty. Such icons inhibit discourse and "finding the way" through a collective openness to truth no single individual - or no single power - can embrace. It is also the Quaker's reluctance to require the repeating of public oaths or pledges of loyalty - indeed to repeat public prayers such as the Lord's Prayer or the Apostles' Creed as many religious schools do - because of the fear that the power of the institution supersedes the individual's right to question the validity of the statement, or to question and explore a wider range of loyalties and commitments than the symbol to which one pledges might encompass."

Richard Eldrige, Principal, Friends Seminary

#8
other one

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Well pardon me, but I do think I'd be more offended if they left the crosses on the building if they are using it for a mosque. 

 

I am a bit disappointed in the Catholic's selling the building to Islam though.....   there is a lot involved in that,.  I wonder if they will take the flag down also.

 

 

I think this would be the disturbing part of this to me:

 

A report by the nonprofit Onondaga Citizens League last summer said more than 7,200 refugees have resettled in the Syracuse area over the past 10 years, with the majority from Burma, Bhutan and Somalia.



#9
Fez

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Well pardon me, but I do think I'd be more offended if they left the crosses on the building if they are using it for a mosque. 

 

I am a bit disappointed in the Catholic's selling the building to Islam though.....   there is a lot involved in that,.  I wonder if they will take the flag down also.

 

 

My feelings exactly. 

 

If they turned it into a car wash and left the crosses up, or a fast food joint and took them down?

 

It matters little. 

 

I do not serve a God of empty buildings...



#10
ncn

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Well pardon me, but I do think I'd be more offended if they left the crosses on the building if they are using it for a mosque. 

 

I am a bit disappointed in the Catholic's selling the building to Islam though.....   there is a lot involved in that,.  I wonder if they will take the flag down also.

 

 

My feelings exactly. 

 

If they turned it into a car wash and left the crosses up, or a fast food joint and took them down?

 

It matters little. 

 

I do not serve a God of empty buildings...

 

 

I agree. 



#11
MorningGlory

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Well pardon me, but I do think I'd be more offended if they left the crosses on the building if they are using it for a mosque. 

 

I am a bit disappointed in the Catholic's selling the building to Islam though.....   there is a lot involved in that,.  I wonder if they will take the flag down also.

 

 

My feelings exactly. 

 

If they turned it into a car wash and left the crosses up, or a fast food joint and took them down?

 

It matters little. 

 

I do not serve a God of empty buildings...

 

 

 I agree, fez.  This building isn't Christianity; it's only a building.  The islamic satan followers can remove all the crosses they want....it changes nothing about our Savior.   He's not in that building; He is in everything and impossible to remove. 



#12
Fez

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Act 17:24  The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 
Act 17:25  nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 


#13
amor

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I think this would be the disturbing part of this to me:

Quote




A report by the nonprofit Onondaga Citizens League last summer said more than 7,200 refugees have resettled in the Syracuse area over the past 10 years, with the majority from Burma, Bhutan and Somalia

 



What's disturbing about that? Presumably most of your ancestors went to North America as migrants(as slaves, refugees or settlers) from elsewhere. The people who built the church in the first place were German immigrants.



#14
other one

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I think this would be the disturbing part of this to me:

Quote




A report by the nonprofit Onondaga Citizens League last summer said more than 7,200 refugees have resettled in the Syracuse area over the past 10 years, with the majority from Burma, Bhutan and Somalia

 


What's disturbing about that? Presumably most of your ancestors went to North America as migrants(as slaves, refugees or settlers) from elsewhere. The people who built the church in the first place were German immigrants.

 

because they are not assimilating Amour.   It's one thing to want to come here and become an American.......    but it's not ok to bring your own form of government and want to instill it here.....    and that is already happening in places where they have numbers.

 

I have no problem of anyone coming here and becoming an American.......    But if you want to bring your own laws and ways then stay where you are......   and that goes for everyone not just Muslims.....  



#15
amor

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Including those German speakers who a hundred years ago decided they needed their own Catholic church. How do you feel about Hasidic Jews. They don't really try to integrate, do they? Or  the Amish, they've been in North America since the eighteenth century but still cut themselves off from the mainstream. As a Quaker I'm proud of our traditions and have no desire to compromise and assimilate with those aspects of mainstream society that are corrupt. we're much more radical than most Muslims. We don't salute silly flags; we don't swear oaths; we don't support or serve in the military and we encourage others to do as we do.

 

We also created Pennsylvania and encouraged others who felt oppressed and marginalised elsewhere to settle and maintain their traditions alongside us



#16
other one

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Including those German speakers who a hundred years ago decided they needed their own Catholic church. How do you feel about Hasidic Jews. They don't really try to integrate, do they? Or  the Amish, they've been in North America since the eighteenth century but still cut themselves off from the mainstream. As a Quaker I'm proud of our traditions and have no desire to compromise and assimilate with those aspects of mainstream society that are corrupt. we're much more radical than most Muslims. We don't salute silly flags; we don't swear oaths; we don't support or serve in the military and we encourage others to do as we do.

 

We also created Pennsylvania and encouraged others who felt oppressed and marginalised elsewhere to settle and maintain their traditions alongside us

Do Muslims offer other to maintain thier traditions alongside them....    I never met an Amish person who wanted to kill me....   Not the case with Islam.       I have good friends who don't salute the flag, but they don't try and keep me from doing so.

Please don't make me get ugly in discussing these folks, they are and I can if it goes that far, but it won't help anything in the long run.



#17
MorningGlory

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Including those German speakers who a hundred years ago decided they needed their own Catholic church. How do you feel about Hasidic Jews. They don't really try to integrate, do they? Or  the Amish, they've been in North America since the eighteenth century but still cut themselves off from the mainstream. As a Quaker I'm proud of our traditions and have no desire to compromise and assimilate with those aspects of mainstream society that are corrupt. we're much more radical than most Muslims. We don't salute silly flags; we don't swear oaths; we don't support or serve in the military and we encourage others to do as we do.

 

We also created Pennsylvania and encouraged others who felt oppressed and marginalised elsewhere to settle and maintain their traditions alongside us

Do Muslims offer other to maintain thier traditions alongside them....    I never met an Amish person who wanted to kill me....   Not the case with Islam.       I have good friends who don't salute the flag, but they don't try and keep me from doing so.

Please don't make me get ugly in discussing these folks, they are and I can if it goes that far, but it won't help anything in the long run.

 

Muslims are intolerant of EVERYONE....they are completely unacceptable as citizens of a democratic country.  There are exceptions to the rule but they aren't 'good' muslims. 



#18
other one

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Nixon was just an embarrassment who had a Quaker mother and little other contact with the Society of Friends.  As to  Muslims they are the same as you and me. If you think your in anyway superior, you delude yourselves.They live their lives as anyone else. It may make some of you here feel good to sneer and look down on them. But remember that in other times and other places the things said about Muslims here were said about black people; were said about Jews and indeed were said about Christians.

 

I see nothing Christian in this. I suggest that instead of seething with hatred you actually get out to meet and know the nice boring ordinary Muslim people around you.

 

You see hatred where there is only concern and fear for my families future.....    I have posted hour upon hour of video's here documenting the documented ten year plan to destroy this country.....   so don't tell me that they are just like me.......   they are not if they are islam.  When their numbers where you are reach the numbers of other Islamic countries, they'll kill you just like they are killing Christians in the Middle east....    and it's growing here and I don't like it.



#19
amor

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Perhaps, you should stop watching and posting videos and get out and meet people. The idea of a  Jihadi take over of the USA is a paranoid fantasy. What your family doesn't need is a parent filled with hate for others. And turn to the New Testament. Jesus did not command us either to fear or hate our neighbour.



#20
other one

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Perhaps, you should stop watching and posting videos and get out and meet people. The idea of a  Jihadi take over of the USA is a paranoid fantasy. What your family doesn't need is a parent filled with hate for others. And turn to the New Testament. Jesus did not command us either to fear or hate our neighbour.

 

Well according to the Federal Courts in Texas that isn't the case Amor.....     and if you'd take the time to watch the video's you would not be lecturing me on Islam.....    God gave me sense enough to recognize danger and avoid it if possible...






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