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Gender Roles

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#1
Taker

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Greetings fellow Worthy-men.

 

This topic is here to discuss Biblical views on gender roles both inside and outside the church.

 

1 Corinthians 14:34

 

Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.

 

1 Corinthians 11:2-6

 

I am so glad that you always keep me in your thoughts, and that you are following the teachings I passed on to you. But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.[a] A man dishonors his head[b] if he covers his head while praying or prophesying. But a woman dishonors her head[c] if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head. Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, she should cut off all her hair! But since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, she should wear a covering.[d]

 

Genesis 3:16

 

Then he said to the woman,

“I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy,
    and in pain you will give birth.
And you will desire to control your husband,
    but he will rule over you.[a]

 

In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

Women also talk inside of many (if not all churches) freely. In my church, there is even a woman's ministry. Just today, I had a woman go up in-front of my bible study group and talk about vulnerability.

 

So my question to the Worthy community is this, what role should each man and each woman of Christ play, both inside and outside the church?

 

 


Edited by Taker, 07 April 2014 - 09:30 AM.


#2
Fez

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There are dozens of topics discussing this on Worthy, so I will refrain from regurgitation.

 

Be gentle people, we don't want to have to close this discussion prematurely!  :cool2:



#3
bopeep1909

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at Timothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.



#4
Taker

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at TImothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.

"Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school." This statement is a direct contradiction of both the verse you cited and 1 Corinthians 14:34. How can a woman teach a Bible study while remaining silent? 

 

Remember that when I say these things I am trying to be objective, rather than angry or hateful.


Edited by Taker, 06 April 2014 - 06:39 PM.


#5
bopeep1909

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at TImothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.

"Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school." This statement is a direct contradiction of both the verse you cited and 1 Corinthians 14:34. How can a woman teach a Bible study while remaining silent? 

 

Remember that when I say these things I am trying to be objective, rather than angry or hateful.

 

It means a woman must remain silent on the pulpit and as a leader of the church such as a pastor not in teaching the congregation.In 1 Corinthians 11:5 it mentions women praying and prophesying in the Church and it does not condemn it.That is why women should not be silent on all accounts.



#6
nebula

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There is so much that can be said on this topic.

 

One aspect that I would like to point out, because this is one I have had to struggle with, is what we call chauvinism.

 

When women feel oppressed and dehumanized on account of their gender, like anyone else many of them "fight fire with fire." Note that I am not saying this is the sole reason women become feministic and militant in their feminism, but it is a huge source for the problem.

 

So my point with this is to encourage you men to consider how you treat the women in your life. Do you regard them as "second class citizens", slaves, believe they should be kept "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen", and the like? Or do you regard them as princess of God and give them special honor?



#7
Taker

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at TImothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.

"Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school." This statement is a direct contradiction of both the verse you cited and 1 Corinthians 14:34. How can a woman teach a Bible study while remaining silent? 

 

Remember that when I say these things I am trying to be objective, rather than angry or hateful.

 

It means a woman must remain silent on the pulpit and as a leader of the church such as a pastor not in teaching the congregation.In 1 Corinthians 11:5 it mentions women praying and prophesying in the Church and it does not condemn it.That is why women should not be silent on all accounts.

 

Praying and prophesying, yes, those are actions that are acceptable for all of God's children to perform, weather outside or inside the church. However; "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet." (Timothy 2:11-14) seems very direct when it says that women shouldn't teach.



#8
bopeep1909

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at TImothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.

"Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school." This statement is a direct contradiction of both the verse you cited and 1 Corinthians 14:34. How can a woman teach a Bible study while remaining silent? 

 

Remember that when I say these things I am trying to be objective, rather than angry or hateful.

 

It means a woman must remain silent on the pulpit and as a leader of the church such as a pastor not in teaching the congregation.In 1 Corinthians 11:5 it mentions women praying and prophesying in the Church and it does not condemn it.That is why women should not be silent on all accounts.

 

Praying and prophesying, yes, those are actions that are acceptable for all of God's children to perform, weather outside or inside the church. However; "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet." (Timothy 2:11-14) seems very direct when it says that women shouldn't teach.

 

I explained that in post #5.



#9
bopeep1909

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There is so much that can be said on this topic.

 

One aspect that I would like to point out, because this is one I have had to struggle with, is what we call chauvinism.

 

When women feel oppressed and dehumanized on account of their gender, like anyone else many of them "fight fire with fire." Note that I am not saying this is the sole reason women become feministic and militant in their feminism, but it is a huge source for the problem.

 

So my point with this is to encourage you men to consider how you treat the women in your life. Do you regard them as "second class citizens", slaves, believe they should be kept "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen", and the like? Or do you regard them as princess of God and give them special honor?

I agree nebula but that is a whole different thread.



#10
nebula

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I agree nebula but that is a whole different thread.

 

It is related, though.



#11
kwikphilly

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Blessings Everyone!

     No disrespect intended to anyone,but have we not talked this to death?We can just look over similar titles & it goes on & on & on & on..........LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik



#12
FresnoJoe

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There is so much that can be said on this topic.

 

One aspect that I would like to point out, because this is one I have had to struggle with, is what we call chauvinism.

 

When women feel oppressed and dehumanized on account of their gender, like anyone else many of them "fight fire with fire." Note that I am not saying this is the sole reason women become feministic and militant in their feminism, but it is a huge source for the problem.

 

So my point with this is to encourage you men to consider how you treat the women in your life. Do you regard them as "second class citizens", slaves, believe they should be kept "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen", and the like? Or do you regard them as princess of God and give them special honor?

 

I agree nebula but that is a whole different thread.

 

~

 

Blessings Everyone!

     No disrespect intended to anyone, but have we not talked this to death? We can just look over similar titles & it goes on & on & on & on..........LOL

                                                                                                                                                                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

:thumbsup:

 

With All Do Respect For The Word Of God

 

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. Joel 2:28 (ESV)

 

How Can A Beloved Daughter Of The King Not Speak?

 

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: Acts 2:17-18 (KJV)

 

So, If It Is Girl Speaking God's Word Now I Should Stick My Fingers In My Ears?

 

And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Acts 3:17-18

 

I Think Not~!

 

And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. Judges 4:4 (KJV)

 

:)



#13
kwikphilly

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Blessings Brother Joe....

       Very wise words!!!!!Funny too!God will use who He will use & may the Holy Spirit help us to discern what He has for us,,,,,,,,,don't block His Blessings!

                                                                                                                                                                                 With love-in Christ,Kwik



#14
Taker

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at TImothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.

"Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school." This statement is a direct contradiction of both the verse you cited and 1 Corinthians 14:34. How can a woman teach a Bible study while remaining silent? 

 

Remember that when I say these things I am trying to be objective, rather than angry or hateful.

 

It means a woman must remain silent on the pulpit and as a leader of the church such as a pastor not in teaching the congregation.In 1 Corinthians 11:5 it mentions women praying and prophesying in the Church and it does not condemn it.That is why women should not be silent on all accounts.

 

Praying and prophesying, yes, those are actions that are acceptable for all of God's children to perform, weather outside or inside the church. However; "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet." (Timothy 2:11-14) seems very direct when it says that women shouldn't teach.

 

I explained that in post #5.

 

In post #5 you stated that women can prophecy and pray. I agreed with you. However, I disagree that women should teach the Bible.



#15
Butero

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Greetings fellow Worthy-men.

 

This topic is here to discuss Biblical views on gender roles both inside and outside the church.

 

1 Corinthians 14:34

 

Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.

 

1 Corinthians 11:2-6

 

I am so glad that you always keep me in your thoughts, and that you are following the teachings I passed on to you. But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.[a] A man dishonors his head[b] if he covers his head while praying or prophesying. But a woman dishonors her head[c] if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head, for this is the same as shaving her head. Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, she should cut off all her hair! But since it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or her head shaved, she should wear a covering.[d]

 

Genesis 3:16

 

Then he said to the woman,

“I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy,
    and in pain you will give birth.
And you will desire to control your husband,
    but he will rule over you.[a]

 

In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

Women also talk inside of many (if not all churches) freely. In my church, there is even a woman's ministry. Just today, I had a woman go up in-front of my bible study group and talk about vulnerability.

 

So my question to the Worthy community is this, what role should each man and each woman of Christ play, both inside and outside the church?

 

 

 

You probably should have done this in two threads, one dealing with the church and one dealing with the home.  Even so, I will address both issues.  In the home, there is no question the husband is the head of the wife, and the wife is to be in submission to her husband.  The woman was created to be a help meet to her husband.  There are many scriptures that back that up. 

 

As to the issue of women keeping silent in the church, we had many discussions over that in the past.  If it means literally that women must keep silent in the church, that would mean that the moment they enter the building or congregation, they must not make any sounds.  They can't speak, whisper, testify, sing, anything.  That made me question whether or not that verse in Corinthians could have the meaning you give to it.  The answer is found in the passage. 

 

Let your women keep silence in the churches:  for it is not permitted unto them to speak:  but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home:  for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.  1 Corinthians 14:34,35

 

This is clearly speaking in terms of not being disruptive, because it is about the women asking questions of their husbands.  It has nothing to do with them testifying, singing, preaching or teaching.  You can go to other scriptures and find that there are two offices women cannot fulfill in the church.  That would be the office of deacon and bishop, as they can't meet the qualification of husband of one wife.  In today's church, the Pastor and Bishop are often one and the same, but they don't have to be.  The Bishop is supposed to be an overseer over the everyday running of the church, while the Pastor is supposed to give himself to prayer and the Word of God.  Because we have made the Pastor a paid position, churches have given him the job description a Bishop. 



#16
Sevenseas

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In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

Women also talk inside of many (if not all churches) freely. In my church, there is even a woman's ministry. Just today, I had a woman go up in-front of my bible study group and talk about vulnerability.

 

So my question to the Worthy community is this, what role should each man and each woman of Christ play, both inside and outside the church

 

 

oh how awful.  I do hope you told her to be quiet.



#17
Sevenseas

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In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

 

Strange...in America, women hear about women in some countries being brutalized by  men just because they are women. 

 

Is there scripture for that?  somebody?

 

forgive me, but IMO, this is yet another thread started to manipulate people into appearing to disregard scripture...much like the one on violence



#18
Taker

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In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

 

Strange...in America, women hear about women in some countries being brutalized by  men just because they are women. 

 

Is there scripture for that?  somebody?

 

forgive me, but IMO, this is yet another thread started to manipulate people into appearing to disregard scripture...much like the one on violence

 

Are you accusing me of encouraging the beating of women? I'm pretty sure scripture is clear about not beating women.

 

Don't bring another topic into this one, if you want to discuss violence then go to that thread.

 

I have no idea how you decided that I am trying to manipulate people into making it appear as though they disregard scripture, if you disregard scripture then it will appear as though you disregard scripture. 

 

Let your women keep silence in the churches:  for it is not permitted unto them to speak:  but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home:  for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.  1 Corinthians 14:34,35

 

How on earth could this scripture be any more clear? It tells women to be silent inside the church 3 times.

 

As Christians we are to obey the word of the Lord, even if we don't fully understand his word.

 

"This is clearly speaking in terms of not being disruptive, because it is about the women asking questions of their husbands.  It has nothing to do with them testifying, singing, preaching or teaching." - Butero.

 

This verse tells women to remain silent in the church 3 times, so it has everything to do with testifying, singing, preaching and teaching. If a woman has a question, they must talk to their husband at home about it.


Edited by Taker, 07 April 2014 - 03:24 PM.


#19
bopeep1909

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It is a heated debate right now in the Church.Should women be pastors/ministers?I look at TImothy 2:11-14.In the Church God assigns different rolls to men and to women.The previous Scripture from Timothy tells me that God has ordained only men to serve in the postions of pastors/ministers.Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school.This does not make a woman less important,but gives them a ministry that is more agreeable to God's plan for them.

"Women can teach Bible studies or Sunday school." This statement is a direct contradiction of both the verse you cited and 1 Corinthians 14:34. How can a woman teach a Bible study while remaining silent? 

 

Remember that when I say these things I am trying to be objective, rather than angry or hateful.

 

It means a woman must remain silent on the pulpit and as a leader of the church such as a pastor not in teaching the congregation.In 1 Corinthians 11:5 it mentions women praying and prophesying in the Church and it does not condemn it.That is why women should not be silent on all accounts.

 

Praying and prophesying, yes, those are actions that are acceptable for all of God's children to perform, weather outside or inside the church. However; "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet." (Timothy 2:11-14) seems very direct when it says that women shouldn't teach.

 

I explained that in post #5.

 

In post #5 you stated that women can prophecy and pray. I agreed with you. However, I disagree that women should teach the Bible.

 

I do not think there is anything wrong with women teaching as in Bible studies and Sunday school.I think God would approve these rolls for women.



#20
Fez

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In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

 

Strange...in America, women hear about women in some countries being brutalized by  men just because they are women. 

 

Is there scripture for that?  somebody?

 

forgive me, but IMO, this is yet another thread started to manipulate people into appearing to disregard scripture...much like the one on violence

 

Are you accusing me of encouraging the beating of women? I'm pretty sure scripture is clear about not beating women.

 

Don't bring another topic into this one, if you want to discuss violence then go to that thread.

 

I have no idea how you decided that I am trying to manipulate people into making it appear as though they disregard scripture, if you disregard scripture then it will appear as though you disregard scripture. 

 

Let your women keep silence in the churches:  for it is not permitted unto them to speak:  but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home:  for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.  1 Corinthians 14:34,35

 

How on earth could this scripture be any more clear? It tells women to be silent inside the church 3 times.

 

As Christians we are to obey the word of the Lord, even if we don't fully understand his word.

 

"This is clearly speaking in terms of not being disruptive, because it is about the women asking questions of their husbands.  It has nothing to do with them testifying, singing, preaching or teaching." - Butero.

 

This verse tells women to remain silent in the church 3 times, so it has everything to do with testifying, singing, preaching and teaching. If a woman has a question, they must talk to their husband at home about it.

 

 

 

In America, it seems like women are constantly trying to gain more and more power. I've heard about families that were torn apart by women who felt that it was their duty to control their husbands and become the leaders of their families.

 

Women also talk inside of many (if not all churches) freely. In my church, there is even a woman's ministry. Just today, I had a woman go up in-front of my bible study group and talk about vulnerability.

 

So my question to the Worthy community is this, what role should each man and each woman of Christ play, both inside and outside the church

 

 

oh how awful.  I do hope you told her to be quiet.

 

:cool2:






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