OldSchool2

Sympathy for the Devil … or Pilate

18 posts in this topic

why does it matter how his personality was? only what he did to jesus counts, not?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2014 at 0:20 PM, Schouwenaars said:

why does it matter how his personality was? only what he did to jesus counts, not?


you mean how he washed his hands of the whole affair? 
and how the crowd said the guilt should be on them, and on their children? 

or do you mean we ought to sit in judgement on Pilate? 

i think what matters is what he believes in his heart, and i think God sees that clearly, but i do not. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not convinced that Pilate was a bad guy. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute... There had been numerous riots and uprising in Jerusalem and Caesar had told him to keep the peace or be held personally accountable. He had also been told to let the jewish people have their way in religious matters as religion was not a threat to the empire. Now imagine you stand before an angry mob who demands blood. You know if they riot, its your job or maybe even your life on the line. The hogh priest Caiaphus is who you need to blame

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sympathy for neither.  Pilate was a tool, as was Caiaphus. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/21/2016 at 6:00 PM, Gargamel Bojangles said:

Im not convinced that Pilate was a bad guy. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute... There had been numerous riots and uprising in Jerusalem and Caesar had told him to keep the peace or be held personally accountable. He had also been told to let the jewish people have their way in religious matters as religion was not a threat to the empire. Now imagine you stand before an angry mob who demands blood. You know if they riot, its your job or maybe even your life on the line. The hogh priest Caiaphus is who you need to blame

I believe that Pilots wife might have been a believer.  Telling him to have nothing to do with this righteous man.  We don't know what his final decision about Jesus at the end of his life.  I hope he made the right one. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sympathy for the devil????  He is the enemy of God who would exalt himself and demand worship.  He is the only one who should be blamed for the sicknesses and misfortunes in the world, the sin all things evil.  I have no sympathy for the devil.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blessings Friend......

   I honestly don't understand the question(s),,,? I'm not sure what you are using as a reference,do you have a particular Scripture verse or verses that you might want to quote,that perhaps prompted your thoughts?

   Pilate really did not DO anything to Jesus except try to persuade Him to say something that might help him to let Him escape crucifixion it seems,I believe He did not see Jesus crime befitting of a death sentence but he himself was not a Jew and he did not fully grasp the accusations ,I think he did see the hatred ,the deception &  conspiracy of the high priests,,,,,,,And so, did not want His Blood on his own hands & let the "people decide",,,,,,,of course we know the verdict,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pilate knew what was at stake, he was familiar with Roman torture, and it was always wrong to punish an innocent person. He admitted finding no fault in Jesus. But something was more important to Pilate than conscience. He was not willing to lose reputation and position for righteousness sake.

How many sell the birthright of eternal life in Jesus, for a bowl of hot stew, or fame, or temporary gain? 

As for the Devil, not only has he no sympathy, but a lust to be extremely cruelty to others. All his followers have this bench mark to reach. His converts number in the millions, entering his domain through ambition, greed, entertainment, competition and gaming. The soul is destroyed through a desensitization towards the spiritual values of life, until a shipwreck is made of their own faith, which God gave them at birth.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes in the ' Jesus of Nazereth' movie Pilate did not see Jesus as doing anything wrong at all.  He didn't find Jesus guilty of anything and remarked ' He's a dreamer'.  He let the people decide who to set free and they chose Barrabas, the Murderer over beautiful beloved Jesus.  So they crucified Beloved innocent Jesus and set free the murderer.   

12924594_906807146132526_4336170124632518496_n.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have no sympathy for Pilate.  Too many feel that just because he didn't want to kill Jesus that he is a sympathetic character in that story.

He wasn't.

Don't forget that Jesus had six trials.

Trial #4 was before Pilate for the first time.  He is charged with claiming to be king and not paying his taxes in Luke 23.  When Pilate asks Jesus if he is king, Jesus says, "You've said it.".  But in John 18, it finishes the conversation.  Jesus goes on to say that his kingdom was not of this world and that he was here to bear the truth.  Pilate dismisses that with the infamous statement, "What is truth?"  Pilate was not asking Jesus to bring him the truth.  He was waving away any credibility on Jesus' part by dismissing the notion that truth can be found at all.  Pilate is not a man interested in truth.  But he does tell the people that Jesus hasn't committed a crime and they tell him that he stirs up trouble even as far as Galilee - Pilate sees this as his way out of dealing with this and sends Jesus to Herod because Galilee is Herod's jurisdiction.

Pilate did not try to spare Jesus at all.  He knew what Herod was like when he sent Jesus there.

 

Trial #5 was before Herod and  you all know what happened there.  Herod only wanted to see "magic tricks" from Jesus.  When he didn't get that, that's when the mocking robe was placed on Jesus and sent back to Pilate.

It says clearly in Luke 23 that after Jesus came back to Pilate for the last trial that FINALLY, Pilate and Herod who had up until now hated each other became fast friends:

Quote

11 And Herod with his soldiers treated him with contempt and mocked him. Then, arraying him in splendid clothing, he sent him back to Pilate. 12 And Herod and Pilate became friends with each other that very day, for before this they had been at enmity with each other.

Why would that on that VERY day, suddenly become fast friends?  They finally had something in common.  A contempt for Christ.  There is  no other reason.

 

Trial #6 = the last trial.  Pilate tries to appease the Jews by offering to scourge Jesus - which he does.  Pilate knew exactly what a scourging was and how it literally tore the flesh from your body.  Pilate was  not a man who tried to spare Jesus anything.  He just didn't want to be bothered by these Jews and their religious uproar and he didn't want to held accountable by his superiors for crucifying someone without cause - which is EXACTLY what he did anyway.

Sympathy for Pilate? 

I have  none.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Pilot was just watching out for himself in his actions.....   he was put in a no win situation, but I think that was the way it was supposed to be.....     considering the whole of everything, he could not turn him loose or our salvation would not have come the way it did.

 

As for Satan, though I cut him no slack for what he did, when I look over everything I have to pretty much shake my head and think, "What a waste...."

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as Pilate goes.... only the Lord can judge his heart. We really don't know enough about him (or the events of his life after the Gospels in scripture per se) to say, let alone what was truly in his heart.

 

Concerning Satan: there is a growing belief out there that Satan was "somehow noble" and "rebelled again a tyrannical God whom wanted to keep His creation subjugated". This idea has been promoted by several people, most notably John Loftus, a former Christian-turned-Atheist:

 

Quote

"Christians concoct wildly implausible scenarios in order to defend their faith, most notably Alvin Plantinga, who supposes Satan causes all natural evils, and Peter Van Inwagen, who supposes that before the fall in Eden there was no suffering even though carnivores and human beings both co-existed on the earth before then. But what if Satan is the good guy? What if he rebelled against God because he was aware of God's evil plan to create this kind of world and with it condemn human beings to hell forever? What if Satan told Adam the truth in the garden and wanted him to have a true knowledge about God that was forbidden him? What if God was the one who revealed a lie, that Satan was the bad guy even though he isn't? What if God also had some innocent sap be crucified and subsequently claimed it represented his love for us? What if God laughs that so many people believes what he revealed? What if God is the bad guy? What if this so-called cosmic war is being won by the wrong guy? What if in response Satan is sending prophets (i.e. intellectuals), to tell believers the truth, that God is a liar, an evil egomaniac, a moral monster? What evidence is there to deny my scenario? Evidence. That's what I'm asking for in any scenario. Probabilities are all that matter. For if any of these scenarios are to be taken seriously then people are within their epistemic rights to believe the Scientology tale too."

  -Loftus, John W. "What If Satan Is the Good Guy?" Debunking Christianity. John W. Loftus, 21 Aug. 2012. Web. 17 June 2015.  http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/08/what-if-satan-is-good-guy.html

 

Let me set a bit of groundwork here before getting to the point: In Loftus' daydream here, there's a "good" standard outside of God that God is beholden to obey. But the thing is: if God existed before everything else, then the idea of a "moral law" outside of God is utterly ridiculous. All you would have is the universe that would "operate" as made. God is the originator of moral law, and defines what good is. If there is a law, there is a law-giver, and that would be God. if good exists, God exists. The idea of an "Evil God" is an oxymoron, because were that the case, what we call "evil" would be His nature and that would be called "good". Moral values are an extension of God's character, and whatever the character of the Creator is the nature of His creation. Mankind's fall was because he chose evil, NOT because God made him evil.

With that said: since God defines by His very nature and position what good is, and Satan rebelled against God, then we see that Satan is indeed EVIL. And scripture clearly defines his fall:

Quote

“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth,  You who have weakened the nations! But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven;  I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (Isaiah 14: 12-14, NASB, emphasis mine)

 

We know the rest of the story here, and we know what the Lord Jesus has said about the Adversary:

Quote

"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. " (John 8:44, NASB, emphasis mine)


And what Peter has to tell us as well in scriptures:

Quote

"Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world." (1 Peter 5:8-9, NASB, emphasis mine)

 

It might just be me, but someone fitting those descriptions, I do not feel particularly inclined to have any "sympathy" for....

 

Edited by RobertS
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We know by the very nature of 'being' we have a begin point... so did Lucifer and all else created! Now to start from this
place to claim or desire to be one which does not have beginning is ludicrous to even consider... this is why lies are so
pathetic they are nothing except a place of perversion of the something... and the empty set of those who think taking
them in and being something in gain the deluded unto destruction of godlessness.... Love, Steven

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

this is why lies are so
pathetic they are nothing except a place of perversion of the something                                                     posted by enoob

the father of lies,powerless against the Authority of all TRUTH,Jesus,the WORD    the Way,the Truth,the Life              Amen!!!! 

                                                                                                                             love,Kwik

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In history, Pilate was far from a nice guy.

Pilate crucified so many people, to such excess, the Jewish leadership appealed to Rome. Rome sent a warning to Pilate that if he did not reduce the number of crucifixions, he would be moved to a far less desirable post. 

So, when the question of crucifying Jesus came before Pilate, Pilate was already in trouble. Pilate had the authority to release Jesus. In the end, Rome did send Pilate to a remote outpost, I believe in the area of France, which was a very undesirable location at that time. 

I have no sympathy for the devil.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you look at what the devil was, what he turned into and where he is headed, I find it hard to believe that people who really think about it have to jut look at it all,   shake their heads and declare,  "What a waste."

Sympathy for the Devil....    not really for he made his bed........    but really....   what a waste....

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes,,,,so true other one,,,,,,,,,,,,uhhhhhh,PRIDE,,,,,,,,,,,pride & vanity,indeed a waste,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites