Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Personal Finance from a Christian Perspective?

31 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Personal Finance from a Christian Perspective

 
 
When looking at personal finance I recently dug a little into the Bible to see what I could find. Here's some observations:
 
A. Proper Perspective – Who owns it all?
 
 
Psalm 50:10-11



10 For every beast of the forest is mine,
  
the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know all the birds of the hills,
  
and all that moves in the field is mine.
 

Earth+is+the+lords.JPG

Psalm 24:1

The Earth is the Lord's and everything in it. 

 

Remember, everything belongs to God. Everything that moves is God’s. The whole earth and those who dwell in the earth belong to God.


 

B. Good Steward? 



In reading the ”The Parable of the Talents” in Matt. 25:14-30

 some thoughts come to mind. As a Christ-follower we have a responsibility to steward what God has entrusted us. Are we wasting our talents and money on things that don’t matter? A good steward is not inactive but pro-active in managing what his or master has entrusted to them. 





C. Be Cheerful Givers?

2 Cor. 9:7



Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.





We are to give cheerfully as we are able. Not with reluctance or under compulsion. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time with people who try to compel others to give. 


 

D. Practice Self-Control
Gal 5:22-23


22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.





2 Pet. 1:6


and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,





Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit and a mark of a Believer. Delayed gratification and spending less than you make comes into play here. 





E. Don’t be Arrogant but Do Consider Future Generations
 

 
Educated-Mother-Educating-Future-Generat

 James 4:13-16
13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and make a profit”— 14 yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. 15 Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.


 

Proverbs 13:22

22 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children,
  
but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous.





Scripture tells us we don’t know how long we’ll have in this life per James 4:13-16. But we need to consider our future generations including our children and children’s children.

 
F. Have A Generous Heart
The mark of a Believer and follower of Christ is a generous heart. Of interest Jesus told the story of ”The Parable of the Rich Fool” in Luke 12:13-31. Of note the rich man never considered giving some of the crop away to the poor, giving some of the crop away to the local religious organization for disbursement, or selling it at a lower cost to those in difficult situations. If God blesses you with wealth consider how you can help those around you in the Church and those outside the Church as well. 





G. Forgive as We Have Been Forgiven

Jesus in speaking to Peter about forgiveness gave a great illustration in The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant in Matthew 18:21-35. A good reminder how much we have been forgiven and how we have the opportunity to extend God’s grace to others. Particularly to those who owe us. Money issues are a primary cause of a lot of relationship conflicts. Consider instead of a loan giving a gift to a friend or family member.
 

H. Diversify Your Investments and Plan Ahead!

 
 
Retirement-Diverse-portfolio-a-plus-71MH

Ecclesiastes 11:2


Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.


 
Proverbs 13:16


A wise man thinks ahead; a fool doesn’t, and even brags about it!


 
It is important to diversify investments. My father always told me not to put all my eggs in one basket. Dividing investments into multiple types of accounts or companies is a good idea. Also, planning ahead is what a wise man does. From my understanding this means planning for retirement, having an emergency fund, and having a monthly budget.


 
What do you think of the above list? Do you agree or disagree? As a Christian how do you view personal finance? Leave a comment!
 

http://eaglesoaringhigher.blogspot.com/2014/04/personal-finance-from-christian.html

What do you think of the above list? Do you agree or disagree? As a Christian how do you view personal finance?

God bless,

GE

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I totally agree, some excellent points GE. 

 

 

But what would we make of Solomon remark?

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I totally agree, some excellent points GE. 

 

 

But what would we make of Solomon remark?

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

 

Amen to that. God has never failed, not once, to prove that to me! 

 

Mal_3:10  Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I totally agree, some excellent points GE. 

 

 

But what would we make of Solomon remark?

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

Notice Tithing was never mentioned once... What do you think?

It's true money does help a lot. Particularly when you have money to help those in need, suffering, and poor. :thumbsup:

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

I totally agree, some excellent points GE. 

 

 

But what would we make of Solomon remark?

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

 

Amen to that. God has never failed, not once, to prove that to me! 

 

Mal_3:10  Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 

 

See, Tithing is never mentioned once in the OP.

I think this passage and others are taken out of context. I don't believe God's blessings or lack there of depend on my actions. But I'd like to explore this further brother with you or anyone else if you'd like?

God bless,

GE

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

God is faithful to replace that which i have shared with others or given back to Him. It is more like Malachi 3:11, in that He seems to reduce those emergency expenses such as vet. bills or auto repairs. We don't get rich, but I am not in want.

One of my priorities is seeing that our grandkids go to church camp, retreats, or ministry opportunities. That is my way of sewing to the future. They need to know how much fun they can have in Christ, as opposed to the world's fun, and what a blessing it is to serve God.

I try to give to the poor when I see a need, especially Bibles to the poor in other lands. Sometimes I gave an opportunity for income, such as a goat or 2, or I have contributed toward bathrooms and wells in India that were not available to outcasts or lepers. But only as God led me and as my hubby approves or suggests. Right now I am looking for a home for some new shoes--my feet grew (arches fell) so that I can't wear some I bought on sale in advance. Illness kept my old ones from wearing out so now there are extra. I am waiting on God for direction.

We are not physically able to give of ourselves or our labor much anymore due to our own disabilities. We can't be depended upon to serve in church, for instance, which we have done in the past. So we have to ask how God wants us to serve Him now.

Blessings,

Willa

Hot news flash! God is so good! Our church does not have a "closet " to give the poor clothing, but I just called them only to learn that a group from our church is collecting shoes to give to the poor on a missions trip! They have been set aside for a year, waiting on God's direction. He is so cool.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I would add one thing: the Psalms also say that the Heavens are the Lord's but the Earth He has given to the children of men. Therefore, by right of creation God does own everything, as His Word says, but in the same manner as you will one day let your child drive your car that you own, so God has given us the Earth (otherwise, we would have to say that God is letting Satan run the Earth and use His resources to do bad stuff).

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

I totally agree, some excellent points GE. 

 

 

But what would we make of Solomon remark?

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

Notice Tithing was never mentioned once... What do you think?

It's true money does help a lot. Particularly when you have money to help those in need, suffering, and poor. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

 

I totally agree, some excellent points GE. 

 

 

But what would we make of Solomon remark?

A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Ecclesiastes 10:19

 

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

My finances are a way of God blessing me, by allowing me to bless other and He in return blessing me more.

 

Amen to that. God has never failed, not once, to prove that to me! 

 

Mal_3:10  Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 

 

See, Tithing is never mentioned once in the OP.

I think this passage and others are taken out of context. I don't believe God's blessings or lack there of depend on my actions. But I'd like to explore this further brother with you or anyone else if you'd like?

God bless,

GE

 

 

So GE, are you saying that Luke 6:38, is not about money, but rather having a forgiving spirit to others?

 

Not sure where I stand on the tithing, but what do you think of the passage in Hebrews 7?

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

So GE, are you saying that Luke 6:38, is not about money, but rather having a forgiving spirit to others?

 

Not sure where I stand on the tithing, but what do you think of the passage in Hebrews 7?

 

 

Re: Luke 6:38... What do you think this passage is talking about brother?

 

Luke 6:37-42

Judging Others

37 “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; 38 give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

39 He also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

@19Duggarfan... Re: Hebrews 7... What stands out to you in that chapter? I linked it as it is a bit long to post here.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I would add one thing: the Psalms also say that the Heavens are the Lord's but the Earth He has given to the children of men. Therefore, by right of creation God does own everything, as His Word says, but in the same manner as you will one day let your child drive your car that you own, so God has given us the Earth (otherwise, we would have to say that God is letting Satan run the Earth and use His resources to do bad stuff).

Where does the Bible say the Heavens are the Lord's but the Earth He has given to the children of men? Curious.

Is God not allowing Satan to do bad stuff with what is in the Earth? Fascinating.

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

God is faithful to replace that which i have shared with others or given back to Him. It is more like Malachi 3:11, in that He seems to reduce those emergency expenses such as vet. bills or auto repairs. We don't get rich, but I am not in want.

One of my priorities is seeing that our grandkids go to church camp, retreats, or ministry opportunities. That is my way of sewing to the future. They need to know how much fun they can have in Christ, as opposed to the world's fun, and what a blessing it is to serve God.

I try to give to the poor when I see a need, especially Bibles to the poor in other lands. Sometimes I gave an opportunity for income, such as a goat or 2, or I have contributed toward bathrooms and wells in India that were not available to outcasts or lepers. But only as God led me and as my hubby approves or suggests. Right now I am looking for a home for some new shoes--my feet grew (arches fell) so that I can't wear some I bought on sale in advance. Illness kept my old ones from wearing out so now there are extra. I am waiting on God for direction.

We are not physically able to give of ourselves or our labor much anymore due to our own disabilities. We can't be depended upon to serve in church, for instance, which we have done in the past. So we have to ask how God wants us to serve Him now.

Blessings,

Willa

 

 

I believe that God does provide for our needs. Determing what people consider needs vs wants is tricky. And when God doesn't respond as they want Him to some get dissapointed.

That's great that you are investing in your grandkids spiritual lives and future. :)

Giving to the poor is a good thing sister. :thumbsup:

God provides opportunities for us every day. We just need to open our eyes and rely on the Holy Spirit.

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Hot news flash! God is so good! Our church does not have a "closet " to give the poor clothing, but I just called them only to learn that a group from our church is collecting shoes to give to the poor on a missions trip! They have been set aside for a year, waiting on God's direction. He is so cool.

Praise God! :)

He is indeed very cool. He is awesome! :thumbsup:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

So GE, are you saying that Luke 6:38, is not about money, but rather having a forgiving spirit to others?

 

Not sure where I stand on the tithing, but what do you think of the passage in Hebrews 7?

 

 

Re: Luke 6:38... What do you think this passage is talking about brother?

 

Luke 6:37-42

Judging Others

37 “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; 38 give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

39 He also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.

God bless,

GE

 

 

I see this as referring to the Believer not judging others but remembering that we all are sinners in need of mercy.  The more mercy we show to others the more God will give us, James 2:11-13.

 

@19Duggarfan... Re: Hebrews 7... What stands out to you in that chapter? I linked it as it is a bit long to post here.

 

Speaking of Melchizedek, the priesthood we are called into it states:

4)  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the Patriarch Abraham gave the tithe of the spoils.

5)  For verily they which receive the office of the Priesthood, have a commandment to take according to the Law, tithes of the people (that is, of their brethren), thought they came out of the lions of Abraham.

6)  But he whose kindred is not counted among them, received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7)  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the greater.

8)  And here men that die, receive tithe: but there He receiveth them of whom it is witnessed, that He liveth.

9)  And to say as the thing is, Levi, also which receiveth tithes, payeth tithes in Abraham.

I just really am not sure if we should do away with the tithe after reading this portion of Hebrews 7.  For the Book of Hebrews compares the Aaronic Priesthood of the Jews, to the New Covenant Priesthood of Jesus Christ likening it to the Priesthood of Melchizedek.  And we see that even Aaron though the lions of Abraham gave unto Melchizedek.  And when I see verse 6 and 7 especially the fact that the only Priest that it is witness to that He liveth is Jesus Christ our High Priest and Saviour, God delight in doing His minister of the Gospel good, and states they are worthy of their wages, I Timothy 5:18.

So at less the Christians I believe should give a tenth, but some believe in giving even more.  Don't forget Jesus comment to the religious leaders in Matthew 23:23.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

I see this as referring to the Believer not judging others but remembering that we all are sinners in need of mercy.  The more mercy we show to others the more God will give us, James 2:11-13.

 

........

 

 

Speaking of Melchizedek, the priesthood we are called into it states:

4)  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the Patriarch Abraham gave the tithe of the spoils.

5)  For verily they which receive the office of the Priesthood, have a commandment to take according to the Law, tithes of the people (that is, of their brethren), thought they came out of the lions of Abraham.

6)  But he whose kindred is not counted among them, received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

7)  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the greater.

8)  And here men that die, receive tithe: but there He receiveth them of whom it is witnessed, that He liveth.

9)  And to say as the thing is, Levi, also which receiveth tithes, payeth tithes in Abraham.

I just really am not sure if we should do away with the tithe after reading this portion of Hebrews 7.  For the Book of Hebrews compares the Aaronic Priesthood of the Jews, to the New Covenant Priesthood of Jesus Christ likening it to the Priesthood of Melchizedek.  And we see that even Aaron though the lions of Abraham gave unto Melchizedek.  And when I see verse 6 and 7 especially the fact that the only Priest that it is witness to that He liveth is Jesus Christ our High Priest and Saviour, God delight in doing His minister of the Gospel good, and states they are worthy of their wages, I Timothy 5:18.

So at less the Christians I believe should give a tenth, but some believe in giving even more.  Don't forget Jesus comment to the religious leaders in Matthew 23:23.

 

 

 

I agree brother that Luke 6:38 in context seems to be about sinners in need of mercy.  Particularly how we as followers of Christ are to forgive and love those around us. Sometimes it’s easier to do than others. And James 2:11-13 goes along with that.   ;) 

Re: Hebrews 7

As I understand it the tithe was meant to support the tribe of Levi. The tribe of Levi was tasked or set apart by God to minister in the temple.  I don’t know that this passage is pointing to tithing for the Believer.  However, it does point to Abraham’s generosity towards Melchizedek. And subsequently our generosity in giving as Believers.

There is no mention of a tithe until Abraham in the Bible. There is no record of Adam, Abel, Cain, Job, or any of Abraham’s predecessors tithing.  Abraham in Gen. 14:17-20 gave a thanksgiving offering to God of what he plundered on behalf of the people who had been miraculously rescued.  In other words Abraham gave away 10% of other people’s captured goods. From the passage we can see Abraham didn’t tithe on what he already owned but on the spoils of war.

 

Tithing too was not a conditional act as referenced in Genesis 28:20-22. Jacob made a vow to God for safe passage, food, and clothing. Notice the term “If God will be with me…” Jacob uses. It’s an “if… then” proposition.

 

The tithe, different from what is mentioned in Genesis 14 and Hebrews 7, was given as instruction to Israel and was from what a person earned: Lev. 27:30; Deut. 14:22-23,28; 2 Chron.31:5-6 

Numbers 18:21-24 shows that the tithe was given by the Lord to the Levite tribe of Israel. It was a tax if you will for the nation of Israel to support the Temple (precurser was the tent) and the workers of the Temple. In Lev. 27:30-32 the Jews were told to give a tithe to the Lord according to Levitical law. In Deut. 14:22-23 the tithe was given as instruction to Israel (Jews) based on what the land yielded (their earnings). Particularly the wine, grain, oil, and flocks. In 2 Chron. 31:5-6 the people of Israel gave in abundance of the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, the produce of the field, and their flocks.

We are told in 1 Cor. 10:32 that there are Jews, Gentiles, and the Church.  The law of the tithe was given exclusively to the Jewish people as observed in the passages above. Of note no Gentiles were given the law of the tithe. Also of note the Church was not given the law of the tithe either. The Jews are those who descended from Abraham , Isaac, Jacob, and the twelve tribes of Israel.  Since this post is getting long I'll post the rest in a 2nd post. For now this is a lot to chew on and can discuss.  

 

Remember too that in Matthew 23 Jesus was pronouncing woes to Jews - Scribes and Pharisees. These particular Jews weren't Believers but were trying to earn their salvation through the law and doing good works. Jesus particularly in verse 23 was pointing out that the Scrives and Pharisees were tithing (works) but there wasn't heart change (justice, mercy, heart change). Jesus was pointing out the Scribes and Pharisees holiness was just lip service from sinners and not true worship towards God from someone who was redeemed - they needed a Savior.

That said I do believe Scripture points to the Believer giving joyfully.  There is no specific number for the Christian but instead whatever God lays on our heart. Typically, this can be significantly more than 10%. God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7) :thumbsup: 

What do you think brother? :help:

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

 

 

Amen to that. God has never failed, not once, to prove that to me! 

 

Mal_3:10  Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 

 

See, Tithing is never mentioned once in the OP.

I think this passage and others are taken out of context. I don't believe God's blessings or lack there of depend on my actions. But I'd like to explore this further brother with you or anyone else if you'd like?

God bless,

GE

 

 

Many teachers and preachers have used Malachi 3:9-10 to scare people into giving to the local church. In context, verse 9 refers to the “whole nation” or the nation of Israel.  When Malachi was written (around 445 BC) Israel had rejected God and fallen into idolatry.  Remember from the previous post above God gave the tithes as a way for the tribe of Levi to live off of? So Israel wasn’t taking care of a whole tribe and neglecting the Temple of God!

To me it’s almost like some people want to bargain with God. Some say “Give to God’s work and you’ll be blessed.”  I don't see this happening in Scripture plus there's no guarantee of wealth in this life.  I think in some ways this passage in Malachi is no more relevant to the Church than the command to offer up animal sacrifices.  The storehouses mentioned in this passage were adjoining to the temple in Jerusalem where Jews and Gentiles alike brought their field produce and flocks for sacrifice.  The temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 by the Romans after several revolts by the Jewish people.  

Some even go so far as to say that if you don’t tithe God will cause you to get sick, loose jobs, lose money, incur doctor bills, and incur hospital bills.  As if God would curse Christians who don't give 10% or more.

Giving to God should be for the Believer out of joy and a grateful heart for what He has done.  Not a demand as some have the habit of doing.  Again, God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7) :thumbsup:

What do you think brother? :noidea:

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Not really sure what to think.  I just see the Church being commanded to tithe in Hebrews 7:8.  I have somewhat of a clear understanding of where you are coming from; just not sure if I agree or not.  But from the term as God hath prospered him, I see a reference to the tithe.

 

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I Corinthians 16:2

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Not really sure what to think.  I just see the Church being commanded to tithe in Hebrews 7:8.  I have somewhat of a clear understanding of where you are coming from; just not sure if I agree or not.  But from the term as God hath prospered him, I see a reference to the tithe.

 

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I Corinthians 16:2

 

Another verse that is taken out of context I believe brother is 1 Cor. 16:2.

Look at 16:2 in context of the rest of the passage:

1 Cor. 16:2

Now concerning the collection for the saints: as I directed the churches of Galatia, so you also are to do. On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come. And when I arrive, I will send those whom you accredit by letter to carry your gift to Jerusalem. If it seems advisable that I should go also, they will accompany me.

Verse 2 needs to be seen in context of verses 1 and 3. Verse 2 Paul encourages people to store up a collection on the first of every week. What was the purpose for this collection? Paul in verse 1 tells us he instructed the churches of Galatia in the same manner. The collection was for the saints in Jerusalem as seen in verse 3.

This collection often known as the "Jerusalem collection" was something Paul asked many of the Genitle churches to be a part of to relieve the famine, double taxation, and overpopulation going on in Judea in the 40's. It was for a specific time and a specific group of people in a specific place. Paul delivered a gift to Antioch in Acts 11:29-30. In Romans 15:26 Paul states that the churches of Macedonia and Achaia "were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem," but the actual list of contributing churches is likely much longer including Berea, Thessalonica, Derbe and Asia.

This was a great expression of the interdependence of the Believers in the Church worldwide. It was pretty awesome if you think about it as God moved people to give generously. Notice too Paul didn't teach that I'm aware of tithing to the Gentile churches... We need to remember as well the target audience Paul wrote to was also a society based upon honor. By giving to the church in Jerusalem the Gentile churches were honoring the Jewish believers. Paul tells the church in Corinth that they are a testimony to God's grace...

2 Cor 9:14

14 and by their prayer for you, who long for you because of the exceeding grace of God in you.

This gift was a representation of the heart of the Gospel - that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, not male and female (Gal 3:28).

 

Gal 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

So in a sense this gift created unity in the early Church particularly between Jews and Gentiles. Do you see brother?

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do.

 

It's not about US! 

 

This thing isn't about "Christians". 

 

Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian.  There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel.

 

I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean).  It is NOT about us.  It's ALL about Jesus.  Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains".

 

It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD.

 

Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM.  We are mearly ... stewards.  Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?  Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have.

 

 

Again, no nit-picking.  Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other.  To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do.

 

It's not about US! 

 

This thing isn't about "Christians". 

 

Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian.  There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel.

 

I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean).  It is NOT about us.  It's ALL about Jesus.  Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains".

 

It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD.

 

Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM.  We are mearly ... stewards.  Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?  Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have.

 

 

Again, no nit-picking.  Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other.  To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

Sorry I don't understand this in red. A Christian perspective is based on the Word of God (the BIble). The Bible is indeed about God and Messiah. Yet the Bible is also how we understand what our role is as Christ-followers (Christians).

 

How do you figure people who are living right by obeying the "goodness of their conscience will enter the Kingdom of God... and they've never heard the Gospel."?

Rom. 10:14

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?

I agree we are stewards of what God given us. What do you mean by "Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?" We aren't talking about robbing God. We're talking about what it means to be a good steward of what has given us if you will. Note too what I said earlier...

 

That said I do believe Scripture points to the Believer giving joyfully.  There is no specific number for the Christian but instead whatever God lays on our heart. Typically, this can be significantly more than 10%. God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7) :thumbsup: 

 

The Spirit speaks through God's Word. Show me in Scripture how the Spirit speaks differently than what has been put forth?

God bless,

GE

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

We are not under the Law, but under Grace

 

No man is justified by doing the works of the law. (Gal. 3:11) All the curses of the law were abolished and done away with by Christ who was made a curse for us. (Gal. 3:13). We are justified through faith in Jesus Christ. (Gal 3:24) Our hope is no longer in the law but in Christ who draws us near to God. (Heb. 7:18-19

 

According to Rom. 6:14 and Gal.5:18 we are led by God’s spirit as sin no longer has dominion over us. We are no longer under the law but under grace. 

 

"We are not under law but under grace." - Rom. 6:14 and Gal. 5:18.

 

From Col. 2:14 we are shown that Christ cancelled our debt that stood against at the cross. The debt in Mal. 3:7,14 that was owed was, amongst other things, the 10% that Israel was to tithe to avoid God’s wrath. Gal 3:13 and Col. 2:14 show us that the debt and curse of the law is no longer upon us as Believers. 

 

Salvation and eternal life through Jesus are both free to us without money or cost. We as Believers don’t give to be saved. Instead, we give BECAUSE we are saved and because we want others to be reached for the Gospel.

 

For the Jew, failure to tithe under the law brought God’s wrath to Israel. For the Believer, failure to give a tithe doesn't result in God's wrath or punishment.  

 

I’m convinced there are two things of eternal value on this earth – God’s Word (Psalm 119:89, 160; Is. 40:8; 1 Pet. 1:25and people (Matt. 25:46; John 3:16; Rom. 6:23; Heb. 10:39; 1 Cor. 15:54; 1 John 5:13-14).

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Agree or disagree? I it would be foolish to disagree with God's word! It would make a good project as one reads thru the Bible each year, to mark the passages on money, finances, economics and the like.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Hey GE,

 

    It is found in Psalm 115, verse 16:

"The Heaven, even the heaves, are the Lord's: but the earth hath He given to the children of men."

 

My point was that if we were to say that the Earth is the Lord's, then that would impugn Him saying that He gives license to Satan to do bad stuff with it. However, in light of Scripture, we see that the Earth belongs to us, not the Lord (though He owns it by right of Creation), since He said He has given it to us. Therefore, it is man who allows Satan to do the bad stuff (in light of the fact also that we as Believers have been given all power and authority over the Devil, therefore, we should not be allowing him to do anything, according to Luke 10).

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Speaking of the Priesthood of Melchisedec of which type we as Christian Believers are part we read that he received Tithes, Hebrews 7:8.   And the only True High Priest who lives forever is Christ.

 

If Jesus Christ is the True Melchisedec, should not we support His minister just as Israel did the Aaronic priesthood. 

I Corinthians 9:9-13

9)    For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn.  Doth God take care for oxen?

10)  Or saith He it altogether for our sakes?  For our sakes no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of His hope.

11)  If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

12)  If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather?  Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the Gospel of Christ.

Paul even writes of this passage from Deuteronomy 25:4 again:

For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn.  And, the labourer is worthy of his reward.

I Timothy 5:18

Remember that the labourer is worthy of his hire comes from the passage of Leviticus 19:5-13; which deals with the tithe.  So not only do I see the Writer of Hebrews writing in support of the tithe, but also Paul. 

 

Plus I think Jesus supported the Tithe in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42.  If ever the Son of God had a chance to teach again tithing He could have stop the poor widow who gave of all that she had, while the others gave of their abundance, Mark 12:41-44.  Yes I agree with you that God loveth a Cheerful giver, II Corinthians 9:7.   But when we hold back the tenth from God, IMO we show our love of money over our love for God, and the love of money is the root of all evil, I Timothy 6:10.

 

Just my thoughts.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

 

I know you all don't mean it like this, but deep down, I think you do.

 

It's not about US! 

 

This thing isn't about "Christians". 

 

Adam, Seth, Abel, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Micah, and millions of others who were not even Israelites - men and women who served God and never even heard of a "Hebrew" or an "Israelite" or "Jerusalem" - were not Christian.  There are people living right this minute who are obeying the goodness of their conscious and will enter the Kingdom of God ... and they've never heard the Gospel.

 

I know this is beyond this thread, but I just want to admonish the brethren to stop being prideful, thinking you are Gods special little people (in some regard you are, but if you are receiving this as I intend, you know what I mean).  It is NOT about us.  It's ALL about Jesus.  Every Book of the Bible is about the Messiah, not "Christains".

 

It is not a "Christian perspective", but the Word of GOD.

 

Glory belongs to HIM, and we should give it ALL too HIM.  We are mearly ... stewards.  Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?  Heaven forbid that I ever do it, and God forgive me for the times I have.

 

 

Again, no nit-picking.  Yes, we ARE our brothers keepers, and we ARE commanded to both encourage AND admonish each other.  To whomever is truely redeemed, hear what the Spirit says about this.

Sorry I don't understand this in red. A Christian perspective is based on the Word of God (the BIble). The Bible is indeed about God and Messiah. Yet the Bible is also how we understand what our role is as Christ-followers (Christians).

 

How do you figure people who are living right by obeying the "goodness of their conscience will enter the Kingdom of God... and they've never heard the Gospel."?

Rom. 10:14

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?

I agree we are stewards of what God given us. What do you mean by "Does a steward dare rob the King of His glory?" We aren't talking about robbing God. We're talking about what it means to be a good steward of what has given us if you will. Note too what I said earlier...

 

That said I do believe Scripture points to the Believer giving joyfully.  There is no specific number for the Christian but instead whatever God lays on our heart. Typically, this can be significantly more than 10%. God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Cor. 9:7) :thumbsup: 

 

The Spirit speaks through God's Word. Show me in Scripture how the Spirit speaks differently than what has been put forth?

God bless,

GE

 

 

Hi eagles,

 

Sorry, I made some errors in that thread and will amend.  Well, I've been accused of "justifying" things in this particular web site, but, truth is truth, regardless of how it is perceived, and the truth is I"M AT WORK.  Military Advisor ... on a christian webpage?  LOL  Scandalous.  So, I'm always rushing from this location.  Always.

 

Obviously, Moses was an Israelite.  Big whoops there right?  :-)  But, to focus on what I said in the red.  Its' pretty easy once you know the DISPENSATIONS.  Take for example, Adam - Moses.  There was no law.  No oracles.  No Temple.  No ... nothing.  Consider Job.  Job was no Hebrew, and the Law of Moses didn't exist, yet God called Him righteous.  The point is, there are those who lived prior to the Law of Moses and so, they will not be judged by something that didn't even exist.  Don't you see?  Cain murdered, but he was never charged for murder.  Noah was a drunk, but never accused.  Abraham was an idol worshipper, but never condemned for it.  Even Jacobs wife stole her fathers idols, and sat on them to hide them.  Never condemned for it though.  Why not?  Because they were all under the dispensation of the conscious.  And so it is with all nations who never heard of the Law of God.  How can Asians be charged?  how can ancient Russia?  How can the islanders?  They never heard of Moses or the Law, so, like the men who have never even heard of Israel, they too will fall under that dispensation ... even human beings living this very hour.  They have never heard of Jesus or the Gospel, but they have souls right?  They must also be judged right?  But why would God judge them in accoradance to a Gospel they have never heard?  He will not.  Abraham insured that we would never misunderstand that about Gods nature:

 

"Far be it from You to judge the righteous with the wicked!"

 

 

 

Second red thing is, its not a Christian perspective.  I'm not talking about THIS thread, as I tried to be clear about, but in EVERYTHING I see in threads, from the pulpit, in my life groups, personal conversations, academic settings, etc.  I hear it too often "Christian" and "Christian" and "Christian" and I've grown to know that it's not about Christians.  Not in the Old Testament nor the New.  It's about CHRIST.

 

But too often, a Christian pitches something, such as, "when CHRISTIANS get to Heaven" ... for example.  I'm sorry, but Adam, Seth, Jeremiah, Melchesidek, Isaiah, Micah, and all the righteous who are not even part of the nation of Israel (such as Job) were not, and are not, Christians.  My point is, it does not belong to CHRISTIANS.  Now, if you look at it as christian vs psuedoChristian (or other religions), well, you will struggle with what I'm saying.  But I know it is not a Christian or a Jew thing, but a SAINT thing.  The SAINTS of God will be with God, and the SAINTS of God transcend both Judaism and Christianity.  After all, there were saints of God long before Judaism itself existed.  And by me typing "saint" does not imply any Catholic influence, because I remain uninfluenced by them, but I'm saying what Scriptures say.  ALL who turn from sin are SAINTS of God.  Didn't you see that in the Book of Isaiah?  That hidden jewel?  One moment isaiah says that only a remnant will be saved, but in another, he says ALL Israel will be saved, but in the Book of Isaiah, he also explains that true Israel are ALL who turn from sin, not just the bloodline of Jacob.  Only a remnant of the bloodline will be saved, but ALL saints will be, be they Jew or Gentile.  Paul merely piggy backed on that by saying that a true Jew is on who is INWARDLY, not one who simply shares blood with Jacob.  It doesn't matter if they lived BEFORE the law of Moses.  It doesn't matter if they never heard of it, or Jesus, or the Law, or the Gospel.  As long as they "obey the goodness of their conscious" - which is the only thing that tells us what is right and what is wrong - they will enter Paradise.  That is my point.  Hope it makes sense now.

 

 

 

Lastly, the third red thing is, too often people glorify themselves, instead of giving glory to God.  And Christians have grown just as arrogant as Jews were in Judaism.  They too thought they were "Gods special little people".  They too thought that they had the promise and the oracles so that must've made them better then everyone else.  And even in SIN they lived!  And I see the Church doing the same exact thing.  But when I read PROPHECIES concerning the end time, and even Christians, I see clearly the Word of God and what I see in real life: 

 

-men shall NOT heed sound doctrine

-there WILL be a great falling away

-you are the salt of the earth, what will happen to the world is the salt looses it flavor?  LOOSES its flavor.  LOOSES ITS FLAVOR!  {I wish people would see that}  It cannot be resalted.  It CANNOT be resalted.  IT CANNOT BE RESALTED!  {again, I wish people would see that too}

-ye are the light of the world

 

Now ask yourself, "What is the state of the world" in terms of morality.  Now ask yourself is the light is doing its job, or if the salt still has its flavor.

 

These passages (and others) are talking about Christians.

 

I don't know why Christians like to point at the world whenever the Word of God talks about "negative" things.  Honestly, a great many Christians should read Jeremiah chapters 3-6.  They should also read the warnings and admonishment of Paul, saying, "do not be prideful and puffed up, for if they, being a true branch, were broken off, how much more will YOU, being unnatural and grafted in, be broken off.  Therefore, be not prideful, but serve God in fear!"

 

Jer: For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

 

and again...

 

Jer: Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God.

 

and again...

 

Jer: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.  How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.  They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbour's wife.  Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: and shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?

 

 

And let's not forget that Jeremiah pleaded.  But they did not listen.  They did not want to see the err of there ways.  how then is any Christain any different who reads this and simply says, "Oh, he's trippin.  We are CHRISTIANS - gods favorite little people.  God will never show anger or judgment towards us.  he'll never wipe us from the Lambs Book of Life".  To that I respond as Paul: "Oh you foolish Galatians!  Who has lied to you that you should not obey the Truth!?"

 

So even now I ask, where is the difference?  How is the Church any better?  Are you not under a greater Judgment since you have had the EXAMPLES of Israel .. but fail to have learned by them?  Jesus Himself said that the cities/nations who are given greater knowledge and revelation will face a face worst Judgement, even a worst Judgment than wicked cities like Sodom, or Tyre, or even Babylon!

 

Hopefully, this large booklet explains more about my intent in the things in red.

 

 

 

EDIT: please keep in mind, this is by no means an allowance of other religions.  Just because they "stop sinning" also.  Ignore other religions and this may make more sense to you.  There is much that I've left out becuase by the time my fingers catch up to my mind, I've already forgotten the thought and the Scripture that comes to mind as I type.

Edited by Donibm
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0