Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

genesis 5 and 11 what do the numbers mean ?

* * * * * 1 votes

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
9 replies to this topic

#1
tim alexander

tim alexander
  • Members
  • 23 posts

When the square roots of the numbers given for the ages at death are added together ( Enoch not used because he never died) they produce the number of days in a 12 year lunar/ solar cycle. There are 4320 days in 12 years of 360 days, and 4383 days in 12 years of 365.25 days. The total of figure 1 is 43204383.

When we consider how difficult square roots are to compute with paper and pencil then consider that the ancients were using clay tablets we might begin to see just how astonishing the holy matrix actually is. But in fact these considerations pale in the light cast by the complexity of what the ancients actually achieved.

                                                                             Figure 2

TWELVE YEAR SOLAR AND LUNAR CALENDAR

_______________________________________________

Patriarch                   Age at death                   Square root

_______________________________________________

Adam                     930                                 30.495901

Seth                       912                                  30.199337

Enosh                     905                                  30.083217

Kenan                    901                                  30.166206

Mahalalel                895                                  29.91655

Jared                      962                                  31.016124

Enoch                    Did not die                       Not used

Methuselah             969                                  31.128764

Lamech                  777                                  27.874719

Noah                      950                                 30.82207

Shem                      600                                  24.494897

Apachshad             438                                  20.928449

Shelah                    433                                  20.808652

Eber                       464                                  20.540659

Peleg                      239                                  15.459624

Reu                        239                                  15.459624

Serug                     230                                  15.16575

Nahor                    148                                  12.165525

Terah                     205                                  14.317821

                                                                      4320 4383

                

 

 

Note that the age of Enoch was not used. Such is the case in the majority of the calendars derived from the matrix. Enoch is used as a stopping point in certain calculations. However, the main stop-point is Noah. When Enoch’s numbers are not used the matrix consists of 18 patriarchs, 9 at the top, before the Flood, and 9 at the bottom, post Flood.

The number 9, and two times 9, was of great importance to the ancients. 9 is the number gestation before the birth of a new order. 9 is the number of months in the gestation period for humans, and Noah, excluding Enoch, is in the ninth position. He carried the seeds of creation upon the birth waters of the world. 9 is the number of heavens and also the number of hells. In cultures throughout the world the number 9 carries much the same symbolic importance, and is often paired with another 9 to create both an upper and lower order. It is not by chance that the ages of the 9 patriarchs after Noah have much reduced the ages. They represent a lower order of being.

Figure 3 shows a computation method that will often be used in the decoding of the matrix. This involves converting the ages to their square roots then using one of the numbers, usually the largest, a total of four times to create a series of 12 numbers to yeild a calendar. Figure 3 is 365 day calendar, consisting of the same number of days per-month as our modern calendar. But this calendar is thousands of years old.

 

Is it possible that these things are the result of chance? I discovered these things several years ago. Why did God inspire the writer (Moses?) to record these numbers?

 



#2
Atwood

Atwood

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 360 posts
Poster says, "When the square roots of the numbers given for the ages at death are added together ( Enoch not used because he never died) they produce the number of days in a 12 year lunar/ solar cycle. There are 4320 days in 12 years of 360 days, and 4383 days in 12 years of 365.25 days. The total of figure 1 is 43204383."

I regret to tell you that I don't understand your argument. You say that "they produce." Do you mean that the square roots "add up to"? In other words, you are saying that the sum of the square roots adds up to something. But how could they both add up to both the number of days in 12 solar years and the number of days in 12 lunar years? Would it not have to be one or the other? And are you saying that you approximate the square root to a certain number of decimal places or get exact square roots? And are you saying that the sum of exact square roots comes out to a number with no decimals? -------------------------

Another point: it is popular to speak of the Lord having inspired a man. But as B.B. (Benjamin) Warfield pointed out, years ago, men are never inspired if you mean by inspired theopneustos (God breathed). All scripture is theopneustos. The scripture is "inspired," not the men. The men received revelation to be sure. Theopneustos implies that God created the scripture (not God created the prophets -- though He of course did create us all). Actually theopneustos is better translated outspired than inspired. Warfield's arguments are delineated at BibleAndTheology, a dotcom. ---------------------------------

As to what the numbers mean, I think the common sense interpretation is that they give us a means of calculating historical time (you can add up the numbers). However, I think that some evangelical scholars (like Gleason Archer in his OT Introduction and Merrill Unger in his Bible handbook, argue that there may be any number of gaps and that the numbers are not meant to be added up). Probably both of those gentlemen were motivated to allow for an old earth. -------------------------

Poster says:
"When Enoch’s numbers are not used the matrix consists of 18 patriarchs, 9 at the top, before the Flood, and 9 at the bottom, post Flood.
The number 9, and two times 9, was of great importance to the ancients. 9 is the number gestation before the birth of a new order." -----------------------------

The argument seems invalid and contrived to me. To begin with, how would you know to use 18 instead of 19? Why throw out Enoch? I can imagine that if you wanted the number 17, you could also disqualify some other name in a list -- let's throw out Peleg from his genealogy list, because we need to be a leg up; or in his days the earth was divided -- so we divide him out. And what justified dividing 18 by 2 to get 9? Why not divide it by 3 to get 6, then we can speculate on the beast -- 18 is 6+6+6 -- Ah ha; we have the beast!

Edited by Atwood, 09 April 2014 - 09:02 AM.


#3
tim alexander

tim alexander
  • Members
  • 23 posts

Poster says, "When the square roots of the numbers given for the ages at death are added together ( Enoch not used because he never died) they produce the number of days in a 12 year lunar/ solar cycle. There are 4320 days in 12 years of 360 days, and 4383 days in 12 years of 365.25 days. The total of figure 1 is 43204383."

I regret to tell you that I don't understand your argument. You say that "they produce." Do you mean that the square roots "add up to"? In other words, you are saying that the sum of the square roots adds up to something. But how could they both add up to both the number of days in 12 solar years and the number of days in 12 lunar years? Would it not have to be one or the other? And are you saying that you approximate the square root to a certain number of decimal places or get exact square roots? And are you saying that the sum of exact square roots comes out to a number with no decimals? -------------------------

Another point: it is popular to speak of the Lord having inspired a man. But as B.B. (Benjamin) Warfield pointed out, years ago, men are never inspired if you mean by inspired theopneustos (God breathed). All scripture is theopneustos. The scripture is "inspired," not the men. The men received revelation to be sure. Theopneustos implies that God created the scripture (not God created the prophets -- though He of course did create us all). Actually theopneustos is better translated outspired than inspired. Warfield's arguments are delineated at BibleAndTheology, a dotcom. ---------------------------------

As to what the numbers mean, I think the common sense interpretation is that they give us a means of calculating historical time (you can add up the numbers). However, I think that some evangelical scholars (like Gleason Archer in his OT Introduction and Merrill Unger in his Bible handbook, argue that there may be any number of gaps and that the numbers are not meant to be added up). Probably both of those gentlemen were motivated to allow for an old earth. -------------------------

Poster says:
"When Enoch’s numbers are not used the matrix consists of 18 patriarchs, 9 at the top, before the Flood, and 9 at the bottom, post Flood.
The number 9, and two times 9, was of great importance to the ancients. 9 is the number gestation before the birth of a new order." -----------------------------

The argument seems invalid and contrived to me. To begin with, how would you know to use 18 instead of 19? Why throw out Enoch? I can imagine that if you wanted the number 17, you could also disqualify some other name in a list -- let's throw out Peleg from his genealogy list, because we need to be a leg up; or in his days the earth was divided -- so we divide him out. And what justified dividing 18 by 2 to get 9? Why not divide it by 3 to get 6, then we can speculate on the beast -- 18 is 6+6+6 -- Ah ha; we have the beast!

Thanks for the viewing and comments. I have studied these numbers for several years, along with a great deal of ancient philosophy, both exoteric and esoteric. Sometimes I forget that others have not and so I expect too much. Not saying you are not intelligent! You obviously are. The fault lies with my poor presentation of the facts. Enoch was not used because he never died. He lived 365 years. This was for me the first indication that there might be more to these numbers. consider that certain ancients viewed the universe has having nine heavens and nine hells, an upper and lower order. Now consider that everything that exists is part of a reoccurring pattern.

The Pattern connects everything in existence. Like a hologram the smallest piece of the Pattern contains all of the information necessary to recreate the whole. Thus every thing in the Pattern can rightly be said to explain every other thing in the Pattern. The energies of the Pattern direct the creation of the shape of a snowflake, the shapes of a flight of birds, the golden mean, the Fibonacci sequence, planetary dynamics, and whatever else you can think of. Myths, number relationships, and our own thoughts are some of the clearest expressions of the Pattern and careful study can reveal how each explains the others. The Pattern is energy expression itself through a variety of mediums while acting within self-created laws, which regulate continuation of itself. The Pattern is Truth, for it is true under all circumstances and throughout time. What appear to be changes in the Pattern from one level of existence to another, or at different points in time, are merely different expressions of the same Truth.

 

If you think the Pattern sounds like a concept of God, you are not alone in your thinking. The priests of the Celestial Religion believed that God revealed His nature through the Pattern. In this school of thought the proper method of recognizing the Pattern is found within the philosophy of analogy, which is based upon the idea that every thing explains every other thing in existence.

 

To understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred stories. Sacred stories were constructed so as to contain great truths, ancient rites and rituals, the structure and purpose of religions and many other important things. They accomplish this through their embodiment of patterns. To limit what they offer to the telling, or retelling, of historical events is to miss the greater part of the truth they contain. Every sacred story has more than one meaning, and in certain cases seven meanings.

 

Sorry, I included a little of one of my books to save time. The astronomical matrix is a mathematical/astronomical expression of an idea of God. This is not to say the numbers are not actual ages. God is certainly capable of repeating the pattern of the universe in the ages of the patriarchs. Look closely at what I posted. It is real. It is beautiful once you begin to understand. If you want you can read "Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven" on Kindle Prime for free. It contains a chapter on the Holy Matrix. The ancients did not use decimal points. The number 43204383 is the sum of the square roots of the 18 patriarchs ages at death. I played at creating such a system with a calculator. It is not easy. But these things pale in the light of all the things the writer was able to include with but 57 numbers.



#4
FresnoJoe

FresnoJoe

    Royal Member

  • Worthy Watchman
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 43,032 posts

Another point: it is popular to speak of the Lord having inspired a man.

 

But as B.B. (Benjamin) Warfield pointed out, years ago, men are never inspired if you mean by inspired theopneustos (God breathed).

 

All scripture is theopneustos.

 

The scripture is "inspired," not the men.

 

The men received revelation to be sure.

 

Theopneustos implies that God created the scripture (not God created the prophets -- though He of course did create us all).

 

Actually theopneustos is better translated outspired than inspired.

 

Warfield's arguments are delineated at Bible And Theology, a dotcom. ---------------------------------

 

:thumbsup:

 

Oh

 

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.  Hebrews 1:1-2 (ESV)

 

Those Precious Jews

 

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. Romans 3:1-2 (NIV)

 

And Why, Oh Why Not Me

 

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:  Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

 

Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

 

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

 

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

 

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;  (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

 

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Hebrews 11:32-40

 

~

 

As to what the numbers mean, I think the common sense interpretation is that they give us a means of calculating historical time (you can add up the numbers).

 

However, I think that some evangelical scholars (like Gleason Archer in his OT Introduction and Merrill Unger in his Bible handbook, argue that there may be any number of gaps and that the numbers are not meant to be added up).

 

Probably both of those gentlemen were motivated to allow for an old earth. -------------------------

 

:thumbsup:

 

Yes, Numbers Are Tricky

 

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11

 

Or Are They

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

:)



#5
Fez

Fez

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,640 posts
I have studied these numbers for several years, along with a great deal of ancient philosophy, both exoteric and esoteric.

 

Well there lies the problem!

 

The priests of the Celestial Religion believed that God revealed His nature through the Pattern.

 

Again the problem. Does the bible say it?

 

To understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred storiesTo understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred stories

 

No! Jesus is all we need, not "sacred stories". The bible is the only Truth, not sacred stories, otherwise lets start adding the stories of the Masi tribesmen, or the Hopi indians.

 

And lastly, "What Joe said".



#6
Montana Marv

Montana Marv

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,063 posts

Noah and Shem were both pre flood and post flood.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv



#7
Montana Marv

Montana Marv

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,063 posts

Why are the patriarchs Abraham left out and  also Issac and Jacob?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv



#8
tim alexander

tim alexander
  • Members
  • 23 posts

 

I have studied these numbers for several years, along with a great deal of ancient philosophy, both exoteric and esoteric.

 

Well there lies the problem!

 

The priests of the Celestial Religion believed that God revealed His nature through the Pattern.

 

Again the problem. Does the bible say it?

 

To understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred storiesTo understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred stories

 

No! Jesus is all we need, not "sacred stories". The bible is the only Truth, not sacred stories, otherwise lets start adding the stories of the Masi tribesmen, or the Hopi indians.

 

And lastly, "What Joe said".

 

The stories of the Bible were what I was referring to when I wrote of sacred stories.



#9
tim alexander

tim alexander
  • Members
  • 23 posts

Why are the patriarchs Abraham left out and  also Issac and Jacob?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yours is a fine question, one I have wondered

 

 

 

I have studied these numbers for several years, along with a great deal of ancient philosophy, both exoteric and esoteric.

 

Well there lies the problem!

 

The priests of the Celestial Religion believed that God revealed His nature through the Pattern.

 

Again the problem. Does the bible say it?

 

To understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred storiesTo understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred stories

 

No! Jesus is all we need, not "sacred stories". The bible is the only Truth, not sacred stories, otherwise lets start adding the stories of the Masi tribesmen, or the Hopi indians.

 

And lastly, "What Joe said".

 

The stories of the Bible were what I was referring to when I wrote of sacred stories.  As to you taking exception with my having studied various philosophies and esoteric religion...Like it or not there are esoteric, or secret , teachings in Christianity. Why else did our Savior have one teaching for the Disciples and another for everyone else? The Disciples were initiated into the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven. The crowds were not. They were given milk, the Disciples the meat of scripture.


Edited by tim alexander, 10 April 2014 - 12:23 PM.


#10
tim alexander

tim alexander
  • Members
  • 23 posts

Why are the patriarchs Abraham left out and  also Issac and Jacob?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I am new to this and keep making mistakes, sorry if what I am writing appears all over the place. Anyway, I have wondered about this myself.

 

 

Why are the patriarchs Abraham left out and  also Issac and Jacob?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yours is a fine question, one I have wondered

 

 

 

I have studied these numbers for several years, along with a great deal of ancient philosophy, both exoteric and esoteric.

 

Well there lies the problem!

 

The priests of the Celestial Religion believed that God revealed His nature through the Pattern.

 

Again the problem. Does the bible say it?

 

To understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred storiesTo understand the Pattern is to understand the Way, and there is no better tool for beginning to recognizing the Pattern than the study of sacred stories

 

No! Jesus is all we need, not "sacred stories". The bible is the only Truth, not sacred stories, otherwise lets start adding the stories of the Masi tribesmen, or the Hopi indians.

 

And lastly, "What Joe said".

 

The stories of the Bible were what I was referring to when I wrote of sacred stories.  As to you taking exception with my having studied various philosophies and esoteric religion...Like it or not there are esoteric, or secret , teachings in Christianity. Why else did our Savior have one teaching for the Disciples and another for everyone else? The Disciples were initiated into the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven. The crowds were not. They were given milk, the Disciples the meat of scripture.

 

 

We might consider that the numbers for Adam-Terah are believed to have once been part of The Book of Generations, a book that scholars believe to have been lost. These same scholars believe the book was used as a device to unify the stories of Genesis by setting them within a chronological flow.






Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network