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Salvation is not the New Testament concept

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#1
JohnDB

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1 John 2: (KJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 

In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in).

 

But salvation is all through the Old Testament too!

 

Genesis 49:18 (KJV)
18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

 

And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua):

 

Strong's Hebrew
3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw}
 

AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78
GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה }
1) salvation, deliverance
1a) welfare, prosperity
1b) deliverance
1c) salvation (by God)
1d) victory
 
 
 
 
 

 



#2
FresnoJoe

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Amen~!



#3
a-seeker

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1 John 2: (KJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 

In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in).

 

But salvation is all through the Old Testament too!

 

Genesis 49:18 (KJV)
18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

 

And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua):

 

Strong's Hebrew
3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw}
 

AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78
GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה }
1) salvation, deliverance
1a) welfare, prosperity
1b) deliverance
1c) salvation (by God)
1d) victory
 
 
 
 
 

 

I would go on to say that faith, as in "trusting God" is not solely a New Testament concept.  It is everywhere in the Old Testament.

 

I would go even further to say that Grace is not absent from the Old Testament:  the sequence of salvation and works is in the same order as we see in the NT.  God did not first give the law to the Hebrews, and then save them from Egypt.  He saved them first, and then said what He expected of them. It goes back to Adam--He was put in paradise (Garden) first, and then told how to stay there.  That is how the Law functioned in teh lives of the Israelites.

 

clb



#4
Atwood

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Yes, you can take your highlighter and mark the subject of Salvation from Genesis - Revelation.

#5
Donibm

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1 John 2: (KJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 

In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in).

 

But salvation is all through the Old Testament too!

 

Genesis 49:18 (KJV)
18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

 

And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua):

 

Strong's Hebrew
3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw}
 

AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78
GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה }
1) salvation, deliverance
1a) welfare, prosperity
1b) deliverance
1c) salvation (by God)
1d) victory
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community.  HEAVILY populated.

 

But I think you may be off beat.

 

#1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation.  Adam was no "Jew".  Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself.  In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian.  He was no Hebrew.  And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of.  Jethro was no hebrew.  Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did.  In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God.  That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him.  So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses.  Even now.  Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin.

 

Isaiah has a "hidden" message.  Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved.  But ALL of Israel will be saved.  How so?  because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline".  And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born.

 

#2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation.  Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God.  But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant.  Have you not read the Scriptures?

 

 

a)

Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

 

That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come.  he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation".  He was WAITING for it.

 

 

b)

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

The Scripture is clear to me.  It is about Jesus.  It is falling on the New Covenant.  The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either.

 

 

If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic.

 

I think you are confusing two things.



#6
OakWood

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1 John 2: (KJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 

In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in).

 

But salvation is all through the Old Testament too!

 

Genesis 49:18 (KJV)
18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

 

And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua):

 

Strong's Hebrew
3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw}
 

AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78
GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה }
1) salvation, deliverance
1a) welfare, prosperity
1b) deliverance
1c) salvation (by God)
1d) victory
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community.  HEAVILY populated.

 

But I think you may be off beat.

 

#1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation.  Adam was no "Jew".  Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself.  In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian.  He was no Hebrew.  And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of.  Jethro was no hebrew.  Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did.  In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God.  That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him.  So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses.  Even now.  Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin.

 

Isaiah has a "hidden" message.  Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved.  But ALL of Israel will be saved.  How so?  because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline".  And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born.

 

#2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation.  Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God.  But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant.  Have you not read the Scriptures?

 

 

a)

Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

 

That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come.  he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation".  He was WAITING for it.

 

 

b)

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

The Scripture is clear to me.  It is about Jesus.  It is falling on the New Covenant.  The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either.

 

 

If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic.

 

I think you are confusing two things.

 

 

"Isaiah has a "hidden" message.  Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved.  But ALL of Israel will be saved.  How so?  because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline".

 

I'm confused by what you are saying here. It sounds like replacement theology.



#7
bopeep1909

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We know that,in the New Testament,salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ John 1:12.A misconception about the Old Testament way of salvation is the Jews were saved by keeping the law.But we know from scripture that is not true Galatians 3:11.

Paul taught in Romans 3:20 that keeping the law by either Old Testament or New Testament Jews because "no one will be declared righteous in His sight" by observing the law.The Law was never intended to save anyone.The Old Testament way of Salvation was through faith alone Galatians 3:8-9 which shows faith along with Abraham.



#8
oak

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We know that,in the New Testament,salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ John 1:12.A misconception about the Old Testament way of salvation is the Jews were saved by keeping the law.But we know from scripture that is not true Galatians 3:11.

Paul taught in Romans 3:20 that keeping the law by either Old Testament or New Testament Jews because "no one will be declared righteous in His sight" by observing the law.The Law was never intended to save anyone.The Old Testament way of Salvation was through faith alone Galatians 3:8-9 which shows faith along with Abraham.

I thought that with Abraham it was through blood lines. In fact the Epistles underline the spirit over flesh or law. See Romans 9:6-8 But I agree with the direction you've taken.

***Somehow, your text has changed or maybe I initially misread it. The only thing that I can add is through Jacob we are now saved in faith/spirit.



#9
Willa

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While it was prophasied in the old testament, it was in Acts that the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh, where we are called the bride of Christ, where we are indwelt and sealed by the Holy Spirit and adopted into God''s family. These aspects set us apart.

#10
Donibm

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1 John 2: (KJV)
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
 

In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in).

 

But salvation is all through the Old Testament too!

 

Genesis 49:18 (KJV)
18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

 

And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua):

 

Strong's Hebrew
3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw}
 

AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78
GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה }
1) salvation, deliverance
1a) welfare, prosperity
1b) deliverance
1c) salvation (by God)
1d) victory
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community.  HEAVILY populated.

 

But I think you may be off beat.

 

#1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation.  Adam was no "Jew".  Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself.  In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian.  He was no Hebrew.  And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of.  Jethro was no hebrew.  Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did.  In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God.  That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him.  So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses.  Even now.  Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin.

 

Isaiah has a "hidden" message.  Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved.  But ALL of Israel will be saved.  How so?  because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline".  And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born.

 

#2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation.  Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God.  But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant.  Have you not read the Scriptures?

 

 

a)

Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

 

That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come.  he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation".  He was WAITING for it.

 

 

b)

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

The Scripture is clear to me.  It is about Jesus.  It is falling on the New Covenant.  The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either.

 

 

If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic.

 

I think you are confusing two things.

 

 

"Isaiah has a "hidden" message.  Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved.  But ALL of Israel will be saved.  How so?  because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline".

 

I'm confused by what you are saying here. It sounds like replacement theology.

 

 

LOL

 

No Oak, I'm not one of those who side with replacement theology.  I only speak what is IN the Word of God.  Now, to some it may be (to them), but as the author of the words, and knowing what RT is, I know that it is not.

 

For example, I can say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism (and I do, and I mean it)... and right away, the "pro-Israel" people will label as a RT.  But here is the truth:

 

Judaism promotes a Messiah.  That is the core of it.  If it fails to show a Messiah, it will be an utter failure.  Christianity shows that Messiah.  That is why I say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, and I mean it.  I also understand the Conditional First Covenant and how/where it applies to all the other Covenants (yes, there are more than just two) and the Unconditional New Covenant ... and how some people confuse them over each other.

 

Not RT, Isaiah does say that who and what Israel is.  he clearly shows that Israel are they who turn from sin.

 

Not RT, Paul more clearly shows that the true Jew is one who is INWARDLY (circumcised heart unto the Lord).

 

Not RT, God Himself shows us in both prophecy of the Messiah, and again in Scriptures post the Messiah.

 

But, that was not the core of my response.  My response to the OP was focused more on the thread - that Salvation couldn't have been in the past, in the context that he/she was suggesting, because they were LOOKING for that Salvation.  You don't look for something in the past and ask about it towards the future.  But to you, I just wanted to explain that I am not some hardcore RT person.  There are elements that appear that way, certainly, and I know that many Jews will see damnation, but their promise to the land is eternal ... though I've never been certain on how that would apply ... considering the earth will be destroyed and a new earth made.  But, that's never been very important to me either.



#11
FresnoJoe

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As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. Psalms 133:3

 

~

 

....that Salvation couldn't have been in the past....

 

~

 

By Faith

 

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4

 

By

 

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

 

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

 

If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Jeremiah 31:31-36

 

God's

 

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

 

Word

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16






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