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Followup on Did God create satan to sin?

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#1
enoob57

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I know there were some who wanted to comment on this so here you can...

#2
other one

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I don't believe it was the original plan......   We'll have to ask him when he gets here.   I can't think of any way to prove it either way.....   if I asked him and he told me you'd all just say I was nuts and hearing voices.



#3
Butero

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I don't believe it was the original plan......   We'll have to ask him when he gets here.   I can't think of any way to prove it either way.....   if I asked him and he told me you'd all just say I was nuts and hearing voices.

That is the problem.  There is no way to prove it either way.  It all comes down to what you believe personally, based on how you interpret scripture and how you view God. 



#4
enoob57

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Well one of the constants in theology is that God 'IS' holy and since satans 5 I will's
in Isa 14 God has separated Himself eternally from satan by casting him to the earth.
I don't think that God's original plan can be thwarted by evil for God simply doesn't give it a
place in His Eternity...

As far as the hearing of things I am very squeamish about a subjective approach to anything-> do
to the need of reliance on anything other than His Word scenarios...

#5
other one

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Well one of the constants in theology is that God 'IS' holy and since satans 5 I will's
in Isa 14 God has separated Himself eternally from satan by casting him to the earth.
I don't think that God's original plan can be thwarted by evil for God simply doesn't give it a
place in His Eternity...

As far as the hearing of things I am very squeamish about a subjective approach to anything-> do
to the need of reliance on anything other than His Word scenarios...

 

To be absolutely sure of course I would......   The Bible does not answer all my questions.....   it makes a way for salvation and introduces me to the Father......    but I do have questions....   this would be one.     While I can actually see both sides from what the Bible says, I can't fathom that my God would create a being to make all the death, destruction, heartache and pain that this creature has caused.      I find it very difficult to believe that he would do that on purpose.    Do that with the possibilities I can see, but not that he knew for sure before hand.

Some say that I limit God by believing this......     Could I love a God that would kill several million unborn babies a year.....    I don't know that I could do that...   can you???



#6
bopeep1909

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With both the angels and humanity,God chose to present a choice.In pride Satan,who was a greatest angel in heaven,chose to rebel against God Ezekiel 28:12-18.The choice the angels had to follow Satan or remain faithful to God was an eternal choice.The Bible presents no opportunity for the fallen angels or Satan to repent and be forgiven.God gave Satan and the angels the same choice He gave Adam and Eve.The angels had free-will to choose.Satan and the fallen angels sinned of their own free will.Why does God allow it?It comes down to God's sovereignty over creation.Our minds are different from God's Isaiah 55:8-9.



#7
Butero

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Well one of the constants in theology is that God 'IS' holy and since satans 5 I will's
in Isa 14 God has separated Himself eternally from satan by casting him to the earth.
I don't think that God's original plan can be thwarted by evil for God simply doesn't give it a
place in His Eternity...

As far as the hearing of things I am very squeamish about a subjective approach to anything-> do
to the need of reliance on anything other than His Word scenarios...

 

To be absolutely sure of course I would......   The Bible does not answer all my questions.....   it makes a way for salvation and introduces me to the Father......    but I do have questions....   this would be one.     While I can actually see both sides from what the Bible says, I can't fathom that my God would create a being to make all the death, destruction, heartache and pain that this creature has caused.      I find it very difficult to believe that he would do that on purpose.    Do that with the possibilities I can see, but not that he knew for sure before hand.

Some say that I limit God by believing this......     Could I love a God that would kill several million unborn babies a year.....    I don't know that I could do that...   can you???

 

I can.  I believe God can do anything he wants, and since I know his ways are higher than mine, I just accept what he does.  Can someone love a God that has the ability to put a stop to Satan and could have destroyed him before he did anyone any harm?  If it wasn't God's plan from the start, it is obvious he allows the devil to do harm to people.  If you had the power to speak the word and put an end to Satan now, would you?  I would.  I wouldn't think twice about it.  God has that power, so it is obvious to me he has a plan and is using the devil to fulfill it.  I trust God completely.  He is the potter and I am but clay.  Who am I to say anything against anything God does? 



#8
other one

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.



#9
Butero

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 



#10
bopeep1909

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Well one of the constants in theology is that God 'IS' holy and since satans 5 I will's
in Isa 14 God has separated Himself eternally from satan by casting him to the earth.
I don't think that God's original plan can be thwarted by evil for God simply doesn't give it a
place in His Eternity...

As far as the hearing of things I am very squeamish about a subjective approach to anything-> do
to the need of reliance on anything other than His Word scenarios...

 

To be absolutely sure of course I would......   The Bible does not answer all my questions.....   it makes a way for salvation and introduces me to the Father......    but I do have questions....   this would be one.     While I can actually see both sides from what the Bible says, I can't fathom that my God would create a being to make all the death, destruction, heartache and pain that this creature has caused.      I find it very difficult to believe that he would do that on purpose.    Do that with the possibilities I can see, but not that he knew for sure before hand.

Some say that I limit God by believing this......     Could I love a God that would kill several million unborn babies a year.....    I don't know that I could do that...   can you???

 

I can.  I believe God can do anything he wants, and since I know his ways are higher than mine, I just accept what he does.  Can someone love a God that has the ability to put a stop to Satan and could have destroyed him before he did anyone any harm?  If it wasn't God's plan from the start, it is obvious he allows the devil to do harm to people.  If you had the power to speak the word and put an end to Satan now, would you?  I would.  I wouldn't think twice about it.  God has that power, so it is obvious to me he has a plan and is using the devil to fulfill it.  I trust God completely.  He is the potter and I am but clay.  Who am I to say anything against anything God does? 

 

Yes,I do believe that God knew before creation that Satan would rebel against Him.I think God had a plan in all of this.We can ask Jesus why when we get to heaven.Right now we are only human and we do not know the whole story.



#11
bopeep1909

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

It is up to you to question what God has done?



#12
other one

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

 

The reason for that is very complex......   For the rest of all things (Creation and the things that existed before the universe) does God want to fear him as a tyrant.....   or love him as a fair, just God.    Squishing Lucifer like a bug might have been a good short term fix, but how would that effect the relationship with him and the rest of everything.   If that relationship is not there, then what's the point in any of this. 



#13
other one

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

It is up to you to question what God has done?

 

Of course it is...   To judge whether or not what he does is right or wrong I would say no.....    but to question what he does of course I should......   I'm to question all things...



#14
Butero

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

It is up to you to question what God has done?

 

I don't.  I prefer to have the attitude Job did, and simply trust God regardless of what he does. 



#15
bopeep1909

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

It is up to you to question what God has done?

 

I don't.  I prefer to have the attitude Job did, and simply trust God regardless of what he does. 

 

That is the attitude to have and that is the attitude He would be pleased with.We are to trust in Him and have faith in him no matter what the circumstances are.



#16
Butero

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

 

The reason for that is very complex......   For the rest of all things (Creation and the things that existed before the universe) does God want to fear him as a tyrant.....   or love him as a fair, just God.    Squishing Lucifer like a bug might have been a good short term fix, but how would that effect the relationship with him and the rest of everything.   If that relationship is not there, then what's the point in any of this. 

 

If you feel that way, then wouldn't it stand to reason you would be opposed to doing harm to anyone, regardless of what they do?  If you knew someone was going to kill your family, does that mean you would have to stand back and let it happen?  God knew Satan was going to destroy many of his faithful children, yet he allows it.  Squishing Lucifer like a bug would have prevented all the bad, just as shooting a man before he kills an innocent person fixes that problem.  If you can deal with that, how is it any different than believing God created Lucifer fully knowing the evil he would do? 



#17
bopeep1909

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God has had a purpose in the evil of our world.He did not create it but He has allowed it.



#18
Butero

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God has had a purpose in the evil of our world.He did not create it but He has allowed it.

Is Lucifer evil? 

 

Who created Lucifer? 

 

If God didn't create evil, who did? 



#19
other one

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We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

 

The reason for that is very complex......   For the rest of all things (Creation and the things that existed before the universe) does God want to fear him as a tyrant.....   or love him as a fair, just God.    Squishing Lucifer like a bug might have been a good short term fix, but how would that effect the relationship with him and the rest of everything.   If that relationship is not there, then what's the point in any of this. 

 

If you feel that way, then wouldn't it stand to reason you would be opposed to doing harm to anyone, regardless of what they do?  If you knew someone was going to kill your family, does that mean you would have to stand back and let it happen?  God knew Satan was going to destroy many of his faithful children, yet he allows it.  Squishing Lucifer like a bug would have prevented all the bad, just as shooting a man before he kills an innocent person fixes that problem.  If you can deal with that, how is it any different than believing God created Lucifer fully knowing the evil he would do? 

 

No I would not stand by and let them hurt my family......   nor would I try and take their lives and condemn them to hell.    I would attempt to stop them without taking lives...  it's a serious thing to send someone to hell.......   that's why I practice a lot with my weapons.   It's not that hard to stop someone hurting you without killing them.



#20
bopeep1909

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God has had a purpose in the evil of our world.He did not create it but He has allowed it.

Is Lucifer evil? 

 

Who created Lucifer? 

 

If God didn't create evil, who did? 

 

Lucifer is evil.

God created Lucifer and everything.

That was Lucifers choice.God did not originally create Lucifer evil.See post #6.You are ignoring the previous answers.Or you do not agree with them.






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