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Good Friday (Lords Crucifixion) ... or not?

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#1
Donibm

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Scripture says, THREE days and THREE nights.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

The Church, and the whole world has taught us, TWO days and TWO nights.

 

Well, it would have to be two if Jesus was crucified on Friday night and rose Sunday morning.

 

 

So, the core question is, WHO TOLD US THAT IT WAS FRIDAY EVENING?

 

Truth is, no one told us that it was Friday.  The world has ASSUMED that it was Friday by, because the Scriptures say that they rushed Jesus' body down to prepare FOR THE SABBATH.  Apparently, we all saw "Sabbath" and instantly thought of Saturday.  So, we were all told something, and hardly anyone attempted to validate - not scholar nor priest nor pastor nor academic.

 

So, what I'm about to type to you will shake the very foundation of what you've been told.

 

 

PASSOVER.

 

In Leviticus 23, we see that the PASSOVER also is a Sabbath, commonly called the HIGH SABBATH.

 

Jesus and His 12 were preparing for ... the PASSOVER.

 

So, the Sabbath that they were trying to stay ahead of, wasn't the Saturday Sabbath, but instead the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen on the Friday, which means Jesus had to have been crucified ON THE THURSDAY.

 

OK, I know that just words to most of you.  So, don't take my word for it, instead take JOHNS word for it.

 

In John 19:31 John mentions the Sabbath, but he also makes it clear as to WHAT TYPE OF SABBATH.  He calls this Sabbath the "HIGH DAY", meaning, it was not the Saturday Sabbath that we all think it was, but instead it is the HIGH SABBATH OF THE PASSOVER.

 

All these centuries.  All the times we have collectively read that ... and we didn't even notice.

 

JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED ON THURSDAY, NOT FRIDAY.

 

 

Summary

1) Leviticus 23 gives us the root that the Passover is a Sabbath

2) John clearly shows us that it was the "high day", which is the Passover Sabbath, not the common Saturday Sabbath

3) The Greek word for Sabbath is also PLURAL (you can find "Sabbaths" in the English Old Testament, but "Sabbaths" does not exist in the NT, only "Sabbath days")

4) The Scripture about the women at the tomb of Jesus should be properly rendered as "Sabbaths" or "Sabbath days", not "Sabbath".  Why?  Because the Passover Sabbath was on FRIDAY and the regular Sabbath was on Saturday.  There were TWO SABBATHS.

 

That is how we have gotten it wrong for all these centuries.  We simply ASSUMED that the "Sabbath" meant Saturday, but we completely overlooked the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen ON the Friday ... meaning Jesus had to have been crucified ON the Thursday.

 

 

BOTTOM LINE:

 

This is how Jesus could have been in the earth for THREE days and THREE nights.  The traditional teaching that we have suggest TWO days and TWO nights ... and it's wrong.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

 

Now, of course it's too commercial and worldly, so don't expect it to change.  But, know the truth and share the truth with your pastors, teachers, friends, coworkers, and family.

 

 


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#2
Donibm

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I researched all of this and I saw that a great many commentators are also very, very wrong about this.

 

I heard this on Wisdom For the Heart, and then researched it myself, and apparently, Dr. Stephen Davey is spot on.  Spot on!

 

wisdomonline would be the webpage.  The sermons are awesome.


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#3
bopeep1909

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There is much debate on which day of the week Jesus was crucified.The most popular are Friday and Wednesday.Although some think Jesus was crucified on a Thursday.The Bible does not say which day of the week it was.If it were that important God's word would have communicated that.What is important is that He did die and that He physically,bodily rose rose from the dead.


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OakWood

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I think we've had this discussion before and I think that it doesn't matter. As long as we use Easter as a time to remember what Jesus did for us. However, I do appreciate the discussion because I love learning, evaluating and assessing things. It's interesting to learn all this.

I remember starting a thread on Easter and Christmas, shortly after I had joined Worthy, only to be told that it had been discussed before but people obliged me anyway and we got a number of differing opinions as to whether we should celebrate these or not. I'm sure the subject of Christ not being born on December 25th came up, and Jesus not being crucified on a Friday and so on. Worth it from the point of view of exegesis, eschatology and so on.... but hardly something for people to question each others' faith over.

I know that Satan hates Christian culture. He's been attacking Christmas and Easter for years, either by trying to de-Christianise them or by trying to remove them all together.

All I know is that if Satan hates them, then I'm all for them - as long as we don't forget what it is we are supposed to be remembering.


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#5
Willamina

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I think that I learned last year here that the feast of unleavened bread was the high holy day and that Passover was the day before that. Saturday was the normal sabboth and first fruits started on Resurrection day, ending 50 day later with Pentacost. But I still may be confused. My gentile mind still has trouble with the Jewish concept of sundown starting the next day. Oh well.

Still learning
Willa
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#6
Donibm

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There is much debate on which day of the week Jesus was crucified.The most popular are Friday and Wednesday.Although some think Jesus was crucified on a Thursday.The Bible does not say which day of the week it was.If it were that important God's word would have communicated that.What is important is that He did die and that He physically,bodily rose rose from the dead.

 

I'm not sure what you call "much debate".  Some debate, apparently, but not when I read/study, and result to the writings of learned men, as just about every Commentary that I have read makes not indication of the Passover Sabbath.

 

Sure, in this modern, INTERNET age, where people share what they learn across multiple platforms and reach all corners of their native language (I'm so sick of "overnight sensationalist" who read a webpage and then think they are a scholar), but I wouldn't call it something that was highly contested or debated.

 

I looked.  A great many renowned scholars and theologians never even dreampt this.  They all saw the word "Sabbath" and automatically assumed it was Saturday.  None of them (as surprizing as that sounds) recalled that Jesus and the 12 were preparing for the PASSOVER, and the PASSOVER IS A SABBATH, called a "HIGH SABBATH" ...

 

... and the answer is right there in the Gospel of John.  Sitting right there.  Clearly showing us that the "Sabbath" which we all assumed was Saturday, was the HIGH DAY.  John made it painfully, painfully clear that the Sabbath they were preparing for ... was the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen on the FRIDAY, which means that Jesus was crucified ON the Thursday.

 

It's all so very interesting, and as much as I want the believer to grasp this, I have no desire to force anyone to see it.  If they cannot see it, it's not meant for them.  But to me, it seems clear as day.

 

Either way, when the dust all settles, Scriptures clearly say:

 

 

Matt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

 

Being crucified on Friday night and rising on Sunday morning is ... two days and two nights.  It just doesn't add up, and forcing the Jewish or Roamn ancient calendars doesn't make it fit either, nor does it validate the Scriptures, which clearly say three.


Edited by Donibm, 15 April 2014 - 01:49 PM.

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#7
Donibm

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I think we've had this discussion before and I think that it doesn't matter. As long as we use Easter as a time to remember what Jesus did for us. However, I do appreciate the discussion because I love learning, evaluating and assessing things. It's interesting to learn all this.

I remember starting a thread on Easter and Christmas, shortly after I had joined Worthy, only to be told that it had been discussed before but people obliged me anyway and we got a number of differing opinions as to whether we should celebrate these or not. I'm sure the subject of Christ not being born on December 25th came up, and Jesus not being crucified on a Friday and so on. Worth it from the point of view of exegesis, eschatology and so on.... but hardly something for people to question each others' faith over.

I know that Satan hates Christian culture. He's been attacking Christmas and Easter for years, either by trying to de-Christianise them or by trying to remove them all together.

All I know is that if Satan hates them, then I'm all for them - as long as we don't forget what it is we are supposed to be remembering.

 

Sorry Oak, you've been a member longer than I have (here), so I don't know if its been discussed or not.  But, since April 18th is approaching, what better time to revisit it, eh?  :-)  Good Friday is this week after all.

 

And yes, it's all very interesting (though to me, more interesting than Easter or Christmas because those are easy to know and learn, but this is something that has escaped a great many theologians - great and small, known and obscure), but just remember to love the SOURCE and be excited about Him more than these morsels of truth and discussion.  We can easily get so wrapped up inthe toy, that we forget all about mommy and daddy who GAVE it to us.  If your spiritual man receives this the way it is meant, you know exactly what I'm talking about.  

 

For the record, I think we all know that Jesus wasn't exactly born on December 25th.  I think anyone can read about how the Catholics accepted pagans, but allowed them to keep some elements of their practices, which lead to much of the "Easter" and "Christmas" of today.  But we celebrate His BIRTH and we enjoy the company of our families and friends - all things honored by God.  And to those who try to fight us cause we have a TREE, well, I bet you $500 that they aren't fighting their family or friends over the same matter ... and no-one, no-one, is worshiping a TREE!  So, you should simply throw out most of the silly arguments that people conjure.

 

But this Thursday Crucifixion is sound.  It's not argument or speculation.  it points to THREE days and nights in the earth, and I hope I've shown that the Passover is also a Sabbath, and John clearly showed us in the Gospel that it was a HIGH DAY (Passover Sabbath was called a 'high sabbath').  So, John was telling us that the Sabbath they were preparing for was not the Saturday Sabbath, but instead the Friday Passover Sabbath ... which means that Jesus had to have been crucified on Thursday.  It's the only option that actually AGREES with the Word of God, which says three.

 

I like the knowledge of this, but what I'm most baffled about is how is it that virtually the whole Church and the whole world doesn't seem to know this.  That is the part that has me confused.  How could we have missed something so obvious?


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#8
Donibm

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I think that I learned last year here that the feast of unleavened bread was the high holy day and that Passover was the day before that. Saturday was the normal sabboth and first fruits started on Resurrection day, ending 50 day later with Pentacost. But I still may be confused. My gentile mind still has trouble with the Jewish concept of sundown starting the next day. Oh well.

Still learning
Willa

 

The Jewish calendar won't help you.  I already looked ... many years ago.  I can't even remember to be honest.  Using the calendar is what people have done to FORCE FEED truth into Scriptures.  Why?  Because a Friday crucifixion have never, ever, equated THREE nights and THREE days.  Focus on using the Word of God to explain it.  That is all you need.

 

Consider the facts, and the puzzle will fit perfectly:

 

1)

Leviticus shows us that the Passover includes a Sabbath.

 

2)

We know that Jesus and the 12 were preparing for the PASSOVER. 

 

3)

The Passover sabbath is called a HIGH SABBATH

 

4)

Gospel of John has had the bottom line right in front of our noses all these centuries ... and the vast majority of saints and sinners alike have never seen it:

 

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

 

 

Do you see it?  John is giving his OWN COMMENTARY in his own writing.  He is wanting us to know that the Sabbath he is writing about is NOT the typical Saturday Sabbath as the reader would assume (there are many Sabbaths), but instead it is the Passover Sabbath, which is called the HIGH SABBATH, which occurred on Friday night ... which means Jesus had to have been crucified on Thursday.

 

 

Again, don't look at calendars and whatever.  The answer is actually right there in the Scriptures.  If you asked an orthodox Jew, they would actually agree.  But you don't need to, the GOJ tells us plainly (though it has been hidden from all of us for so very long).

 

Pray over it if you really want to know.


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#9
Donibm

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I wanted to add some things to this thread, since this is that time of the year, and some of you will hear the "Good Friday" message.  So, here is a little more:

 

1)
Jesus was crucified on a THURSDAY, not a Friday.

 

2)
Barabbus is not a name, it's a title. His REAL NAME ... was Iesous (Yeshua or Jesus if you prefer). He was a son of a Rabbi, but turned violent rogue. So, to call him by his actual name is to sort of defame his family name, so he is simply called "Barabbus" essentially meaning "son of a rabbi." His REAL name is withheld in Scripture.

Fact is, many parents named their sons Iesous/Yeshua long before our Lord was born. What they were doing was essentially hoping that THEIR son would have been the deliverer that Israel was looking for.

 

3)
The Sanhedrin broke many laws for the crucifixion of Jesus. Calling for Barabbas' freedom is anther one. Calling the guilty "innocent" is a violation of the Law of Moses. It wasn't the people who called, innitially. It was the Jewish priesthood. "Surely," Pilate must have thought, "these men are religious. Certainly they would not call for a guilty mans freedom."  Guess Pilate thought wrong.

 

4)
Some history. Pilate was respondsible to build aquedcts for water. He didn't have all the funds he needed, so Pilate sent his soildiers to pillage and steal from the Jewish Temple. That incited a mob and caused civil unrest - increased hatred towards Rome. Basically, Pilates got into trouble for doing it, being told by Ceasar to settle the civil unrest ... or loose his own head.

 

6)
Pilate asked Jesus if He was the "King of the Jews", and Jesus answered Pilate, saying that He was. But observe further, Pilate was troubled by Jesus, trouble by his wife telling him to not mess with Jesus, troubled further that the civil unrest was growing, not shrinking, troubled even more because he knew that Jesus had done nothing worthy of death.

 

But observe that when Pilate asked Jesus if He was the Son of God, Jesus did NOT answer Pilate. Maybe you missed that. Maybe you missed how He answered Pilate about being the King of the Jews, but refused to answer about being the Son of God. Reason is, Pilate was so troubled by Jesus, if Jesus would have answered "yes", Pilate would have freed Jesus on the spot. It's one thing to agree to be King of the Jews, but to Pilate, who was already strained with this case, to agree to be the Son of God would have been too much for him.  But that's be to the mercy of our Lord, for our sakes, He was a WILLING Lamb.

 

7)
God gives us many subtle hints that mankind killed an INNOCENT

.

We see Pilates wife calling Jesus innocent.

We see Pilate himself saying He is innocent.

We see Judas throwing back the silver proclaiming Jesus is innocent.

We see the Roman centurion AND THE OTHERS NEAR HIM at the cross saying that surely Jesus was indeed the Son of God. There are other ancient writings of antiquity that mention a weird darkness, and those writings have nothing to do with any form of religious context.

Carrying the cross was a sign of guilt under Roman law. Observe what you may have never seen: Jesus did NOT carry His own cross. Every other person carried their own cross. Some didn't live long enough to even make it that far. But it is interesting that Jesus did not carry the thing that bears guiltiness. Not carrying the cross is symbolic also of His innocence.

 

8)
Divided garments. Again, something you may have never known or heard. You know about the soldiers casting lots over Jesus' garments. But did you know that the garment was the INNER garment? Now, they did not have all the clothes and shoes that we have today (why Samson killed to get clothes), but the reason this garment was so interesting to them is because ONLY ONE OTHER PERSON HAD THAT SORT OF GARMENT - THE HIGH PRIEST.

 

Only the high priest had an inner garment, which was very soft and felt good. This is an indication that at some point, some seamstress fully believed in Jesus being the Messiah and High Priest, and made Him one. No one made that inner tunic for commoners. Only the high priests had one ... and Jesus evidently having one.

 

 

So, now when you hear the Good Friday message, and when you hear the things about the priests, Barabbas, Pilate, taking jesus down for the Sabbath, now you have a little bit more insight.  I challenge you to at least raise the things about the Crucifixion to your pastors.  There are a lot of them who struggle with the THREE days and nights in the tomb BECAUSE they also think that the Sabbath was the Saturday Sabbath.  Point them to the Scripture in John and remind them that the Passover is also a Sabbath.  So, there was a Sabbath on Friday AND Saturday.  They were rushing Jesus down from the cross for the HIGH SABBATH (Passover).


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#10
other one

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sure glad I noticed someone was baned.....   I was getting up a real big bucket of righteous anger....     What am I going to do with it now.....   someone tell my wife not to mess with me for a while....

 

?

 

there was a post removed donni....  was kind of tacky speaking against the Bible.

 

btw, I do agree with you about a Thursday (good Friday) so to speak.   When Jesus tells you that the only sign we get from him is three days and three nights, it's kind of........   hummmmmmm........    not so smart to accept two.

 

But then again the Old Babylonian worship of Semarimus and Nimrod carries a lot of spiritual weight to break holds from.


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#11
Atwood

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Arguments have also been made for Wednesday -- as I recall one Scroggie argued for Wednesday. In my opinion Friday makes sense. We must not impose our time reckoning on the Bible. As I understand time in scripture, any part of a day counts as a day. If Christ died on Friday afternoon and did not come out of the tomb until Sunday began (sunset Saturday), then that is 3 days. Thursday would make 4 days. And note that 3 days is given: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." " as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." It seems to me that whatever explanation you give, it must account not just for the "three days and three nights," but also for the "three days."
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Willamina

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Don, our Jewish Christians were trying to explain this to us last year, which was very helpful to me. Passover lamb was killed at twilight on the 14th of Nissan and its blood was placed on the door posts and the lintel. It is celebrated on the 13/14, from sun down to sun down, with a day of FASTING by Jews on the 14th when Jesus was crucified, and the Seder meal is eaten that night with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. The Lamb was to be eaten while standing but they were to eat it all, one per family.

The 14/15 would be the high holy day of Unleavened Bread, on which no work was to be done. Lev. 23 and EX 12. It commemorated God bringing the people out of Egypt and was celebrated concurrently on Thursday night with the Seder feast ?? but for 7 days; only the first and last days were high holy days of rest. So no work was done on both Friday and Saturday, and Jesus body had to be taken down prior to sundown and placed in the grave on Thursday. On Sunday the 17th at first light before dawn the women went to the tomb to find Jesus arisin and gone.

So I am agreeing with you that Jesus would have died on the 14th, Thursday Passover, and was in the grave during the high holy day of Unleavened Bread on the 14/15th as well as the 7th day Sabboth on the 15/16. Jesus arose on the first day of the week, the 17th day after the new moon. He would have been in the grave during the night before and arisen early in the morning before light. I think that gives Him 3 days and 3 nights in the grave if you consider Thursday the first day.

Jesus must have celebrated the seder the evening before, on our Wednesday?? before his illegal trial and crucifixon on Thursday.......This is where I get confused. So I may still have it wrong.

Ex 12:5 NKJV Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year--
V6. Now you shall keep it until the FOURTEENTH day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight.
V7. And they shall take of the blood and put it on the 2 doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it.
V8. Then they shall eat the flesh on that night; roasted in fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

[Thursday] Lev 23:5: On the FOURTEENTH day of the first month at twilight is the Lord's Passover. (A day of fasting.)

[Friday] V6. And on the FIFTEENTH day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. V7. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do NO CUSTOMARY WORK ON IT. (A day of rest or Sabbath and a feast day.)

[Saturday] The SIXTEENTH day is the normal sabbath rest and holy convocation on which to do NO CUSTOMARY WORK.

[Sunday] The SEVENTEENTH is Resurrection Day.

Several years ago our church celebrated a Mesianic Seder meal. It was a great blessing to me, even though it was a challange to wrap my tongue around Hebrew words. It really brought home the Lord's Supper to me to celebrate it the way Jesus did. I look forward to drinking the the cup with Him in His Father's kingdom.
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#13
other one

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Jesus was born in 3BC and was about 33 when he died....   that would put his death in AD 30 and passover that year was on Friday April 6th so he would have been crucified on Thursday.


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#14
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Scripture says, THREE days and THREE nights.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

The Church, and the whole world has taught us, TWO days and TWO nights.

 

Well, it would have to be two if Jesus was crucified on Friday night and rose Sunday morning.

 

 

So, the core question is, WHO TOLD US THAT IT WAS FRIDAY EVENING?

 

Truth is, no one told us that it was Friday.  The world has ASSUMED that it was Friday by, because the Scriptures say that they rushed Jesus' body down to prepare FOR THE SABBATH.  Apparently, we all saw "Sabbath" and instantly thought of Saturday.  So, we were all told something, and hardly anyone attempted to validate - not scholar nor priest nor pastor nor academic.

 

So, what I'm about to type to you will shake the very foundation of what you've been told.

 

 

PASSOVER.

 

In Leviticus 23, we see that the PASSOVER also is a Sabbath, commonly called the HIGH SABBATH.

 

Jesus and His 12 were preparing for ... the PASSOVER.

 

So, the Sabbath that they were trying to stay ahead of, wasn't the Saturday Sabbath, but instead the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen on the Friday, which means Jesus had to have been crucified ON THE THURSDAY.

 

OK, I know that just words to most of you.  So, don't take my word for it, instead take JOHNS word for it.

 

In John 19:31 John mentions the Sabbath, but he also makes it clear as to WHAT TYPE OF SABBATH.  He calls this Sabbath the "HIGH DAY", meaning, it was not the Saturday Sabbath that we all think it was, but instead it is the HIGH SABBATH OF THE PASSOVER.

 

All these centuries.  All the times we have collectively read that ... and we didn't even notice.

 

JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED ON THURSDAY, NOT FRIDAY.

 

 

Summary

1) Leviticus 23 gives us the root that the Passover is a Sabbath

2) John clearly shows us that it was the "high day", which is the Passover Sabbath, not the common Saturday Sabbath

3) The Greek word for Sabbath is also PLURAL (you can find "Sabbaths" in the English Old Testament, but "Sabbaths" does not exist in the NT, only "Sabbath days")

4) The Scripture about the women at the tomb of Jesus should be properly rendered as "Sabbaths" or "Sabbath days", not "Sabbath".  Why?  Because the Passover Sabbath was on FRIDAY and the regular Sabbath was on Saturday.  There were TWO SABBATHS.

 

That is how we have gotten it wrong for all these centuries.  We simply ASSUMED that the "Sabbath" meant Saturday, but we completely overlooked the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen ON the Friday ... meaning Jesus had to have been crucified ON the Thursday.

 

 

BOTTOM LINE:

 

This is how Jesus could have been in the earth for THREE days and THREE nights.  The traditional teaching that we have suggest TWO days and TWO nights ... and it's wrong.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

 

Now, of course it's too commercial and worldly, so don't expect it to change.  But, know the truth and share the truth with your pastors, teachers, friends, coworkers, and family.

 

 

I researched all of this and I saw that a great many commentators are also very, very wrong about this.

 

I heard this on Wisdom For the Heart, and then researched it myself, and apparently, Dr. Stephen Davey is spot on.  Spot on!

 

wisdomonline would be the webpage.  The sermons are awesome.

 

Excellent Post, Don, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

With the exception that I think that we should called it Wonderful Wednesday, not Thursday.   For we see Jesus stating that He would be in the grave 3 days and nights, Matthew 12:40.

 

And if Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, and buried just shortly before sunset, that would make Wednesday night-Thursday morning, the first day.  The second would have been Thursday night-Friday morning, and the Third Friday night-Saturday morning so that at sunset Saturday would have been the First day of the Week, because the Jewish day began sunset the day before.   So we would see Jesus Christ fulfilling the Firstfruit(s); by raising from the dead on the first day of the week, Leviticus 23:10-12.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the Firstfruits of them that slept.

I Corinthians 15:20
 


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#15
Donibm

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Scripture says, THREE days and THREE nights.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

The Church, and the whole world has taught us, TWO days and TWO nights.

 

Well, it would have to be two if Jesus was crucified on Friday night and rose Sunday morning.

 

 

So, the core question is, WHO TOLD US THAT IT WAS FRIDAY EVENING?

 

Truth is, no one told us that it was Friday.  The world has ASSUMED that it was Friday by, because the Scriptures say that they rushed Jesus' body down to prepare FOR THE SABBATH.  Apparently, we all saw "Sabbath" and instantly thought of Saturday.  So, we were all told something, and hardly anyone attempted to validate - not scholar nor priest nor pastor nor academic.

 

So, what I'm about to type to you will shake the very foundation of what you've been told.

 

 

PASSOVER.

 

In Leviticus 23, we see that the PASSOVER also is a Sabbath, commonly called the HIGH SABBATH.

 

Jesus and His 12 were preparing for ... the PASSOVER.

 

So, the Sabbath that they were trying to stay ahead of, wasn't the Saturday Sabbath, but instead the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen on the Friday, which means Jesus had to have been crucified ON THE THURSDAY.

 

OK, I know that just words to most of you.  So, don't take my word for it, instead take JOHNS word for it.

 

In John 19:31 John mentions the Sabbath, but he also makes it clear as to WHAT TYPE OF SABBATH.  He calls this Sabbath the "HIGH DAY", meaning, it was not the Saturday Sabbath that we all think it was, but instead it is the HIGH SABBATH OF THE PASSOVER.

 

All these centuries.  All the times we have collectively read that ... and we didn't even notice.

 

JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED ON THURSDAY, NOT FRIDAY.

 

 

Summary

1) Leviticus 23 gives us the root that the Passover is a Sabbath

2) John clearly shows us that it was the "high day", which is the Passover Sabbath, not the common Saturday Sabbath

3) The Greek word for Sabbath is also PLURAL (you can find "Sabbaths" in the English Old Testament, but "Sabbaths" does not exist in the NT, only "Sabbath days")

4) The Scripture about the women at the tomb of Jesus should be properly rendered as "Sabbaths" or "Sabbath days", not "Sabbath".  Why?  Because the Passover Sabbath was on FRIDAY and the regular Sabbath was on Saturday.  There were TWO SABBATHS.

 

That is how we have gotten it wrong for all these centuries.  We simply ASSUMED that the "Sabbath" meant Saturday, but we completely overlooked the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen ON the Friday ... meaning Jesus had to have been crucified ON the Thursday.

 

 

BOTTOM LINE:

 

This is how Jesus could have been in the earth for THREE days and THREE nights.  The traditional teaching that we have suggest TWO days and TWO nights ... and it's wrong.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

 

Now, of course it's too commercial and worldly, so don't expect it to change.  But, know the truth and share the truth with your pastors, teachers, friends, coworkers, and family.

 

 

I researched all of this and I saw that a great many commentators are also very, very wrong about this.

 

I heard this on Wisdom For the Heart, and then researched it myself, and apparently, Dr. Stephen Davey is spot on.  Spot on!

 

wisdomonline would be the webpage.  The sermons are awesome.

 

Excellent Post, Don, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

With the exception that I think that we should called it Wonderful Wednesday, not Thursday.   For we see Jesus stating that He would be in the grave 3 days and nights, Matthew 12:40.

 

And if Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, and buried just shortly before sunset, that would make Wednesday night-Thursday morning, the first day.  The second would have been Thursday night-Friday morning, and the Third Friday night-Saturday morning so that at sunset Saturday would have been the First day of the Week, because the Jewish day began sunset the day before.   So we would see Jesus Christ fulfilling the Firstfruit(s); by raising from the dead on the first day of the week, Leviticus 23:10-12.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the Firstfruits of them that slept.

I Corinthians 15:20
 

 

 

Wednesday crucifixion (which I do not agree with):

 

Wednesday night - 1st night

Thursday morning - 1st morning

Thursday night - 2nd night

Friday morning - 2nd morning

Friday night - 3rd night

Saturday morning - 3rd morning

Saturday night - 4th night

Sunday morning (resurrection) - 4th morning

 

That is FOUR days and FOUR nights (the Jewish calendar is 'force feeding' and it doesn't fit the Scripture) ... not to mention that it also ignore the fact that the Passover was on the Friday, the HIGH SABBATH.  It also completely ignores that fact that they were rushing the body down for the High Sabbath (Passover) ... and that was not on Thursday, it was on Friday.

 

 

Traditional teaching is (which we've all been taught):

 

Friday night - 1st night

Saturday morning - 1st morning

Saturday night - 2nd night

Sunday morning (resurrection) - 2nd morning

 

 

True Biblical and Historical:

 

Thursday night - 1st night

Friday morning - 1st morning

Friday night - 2nd night

Saturday morning - 2nd morning

Saturday night - 3rd night

Sunday morning (resurrection) - 3rd morning

 

This is the only scenario that agrees with THREE days and THREE nights.  It is the only scenario that agrees with the Gospel of John, which clearly says that the sabbath they were perparing for was the HIGH SABBATH, which was the Friday, not the Saturday Sabbath that we all thought it was for all these centuries.

 

Personally, I'm convinced.  Apparently, Jews (those who actually know what the Passover intails) actualy agree.  Seems to me that if more Jews would have been Christain, or cared about Christianity, we would have been told our error a long, long time ago.  This is actually an embarrassment to Christendom ... AND the world (for they didn't bother to verify either).  Same for scholars and professors.  No one bothered to really study this.  Commentaries even have it wrong ....

 

... cause everyone has over looked that the Passover is also a Sabbath and John showed us that the sabbath was the HIGH DAY, clearly, clearly, clearly showing us which Sabbath they were rushing Jesus' body down for.

 

We missed it ... all these centuries.  And John makes it so, so, so very painfully clear. 

 

My question is, how could we have come THIS far with this bad teaching?  A Friday crucifixion simply doesn't fit the Biblical Scripture of THREE days and THREE nights ... no matter how people try to force feed the Jewish calendar.  Their calendar means nothing.


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#16
Atwood

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It was posted:
"Traditional teaching is (which we've all been taught):

Friday night - 1st night
Saturday morning - 1st morning
Saturday night - 2nd night
Sunday morning (resurrection) - 2nd morning"

Whoever taught that? Do you have sources to quote to show that is the traditional view, instead of an invented straw man?

This is the traditional view:

Day 1: Thursday Sunset - Friday Sunset = 1 Day and 1 Night combo: Crucifixion; 1st Entombment Day
Day 2: Friday Sunset - Saturday Sunset = 1 Day and 1 Night combo: 2nd Day Entombed
Day 3: Saturday Sunset - Sunday Sunset = 1 Day and 1 Night combo: 3rd Day Entombed; then Risen

Biblical time reckoning: Any fraction of a day counts as a day. If a King came to the throne in the last month of a year, then ruled the entire following year; then died in the first month of the following year; he would have reigned 3 years (though we would say he ruled slightly more than 1 year).

The traditional view is that Christ was crucified on Friday, hanging on the cross around noon. He was taken off the cross and buried before sunset. Then He was still in the tomb after sundown on Saturday, meaning a 3rd day in the tomb since sundown starts a new day. Then he rose from the dead early on Sunday.

Of course scripture does not tell us that Christ died on Friday. So it is not a matter of heresy which day one thinks He died on. I suggest that before anyone adopt the Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion POV, one do a little research on the arguments against those days, arguments which should be readily available on the internet. One thing that seems highly unlikely to me is that most of Christendom has been knucklehead on this subject for hundreds or thousands of years. This issue is really not a matter of God's Word being true or not, but of how we interpret the language of God's Word and avoiding imposing our modern time counting methods on the Bible. You may also find that in the Bible generally a year is 360 days long.

Edited by Atwood, 19 April 2014 - 10:40 PM.

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#17
Donibm

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Not sure where the friction is coming from, but I'm multicultural.  Lived in difference countries, and EVERYWHERE I've lived either celebrates or acknowledges GOOD FRIDAY.  Uh, that would have been THIS Friday just passed BTW.

 

I mean, some countries make hot CROSS buns (to commemorate the Cross of Jesus) and fishcakes.

 

My sons school was even closed for Good FRIDAY.  His wasn't the only one either, and it's not a "Christian" school.  LOL

 

Some countries celebrate Good FRIDAY with a day off from work (not all American holidays are observed, just like some holidays are bigger overseas than what they are here).  It's an actual holiday.

 

Some counties even have men making their own kites to fly.  Traditionally in the shape of the cross, but have since evolved to more elaborate patterns.  And they fly them on Good FRIDAY.

 

I'm 40 years old.  Raised by devout Christians.  Probably been to more Churches in more countries than you've been to nightclubs.  I've NEVER heard a preacher preach a Thursday crucifixion.  Never.  And if I have, I was too disinterested to care or compute it to memory.  It has ALWAYS been the Friday night crucifixion and Sunday morning resurrection.

 

In fact, my Church held a special afternoon service on FRIDAY.

 

 

 

So ... I'm not sure how you can't understand that FRIDAY is the TRADITION view.  I mean really?  The world JUST CELEBRATED GOOD FRIDAY. Didn't it?  I mean, did I miss something? 

 

Ever heard of "good Thursday"?  Interestingly enough, neither have I. 

 

Google it.  Bing search it.  Ya-hoo til your hearts content.  When you find such a thing called "good Thursday", let us know.  Until then, well, ....

 

 

No friend, there is no invention of a straw man in my world.  And as typical, there is always one who misses the intention of created threads.   And do I really need "data" for this obvious things?  I mean ... really?  Anyone not living under a rock should know these things.  This is not an academic issue (and I am at the Post-Graduate [Doctorate] level).  It has nothing to do with that.  This is just ... common knowledge - knowledge we acquire just by LIVING in the world.

 

 

The TRADITIONAL view is, because of its sheer history and application and observance, a Friday crucifixion.

 

The BIBLICAL views, is a Thursday crucifixion.

 

 

We agree on the DAY He was crucified, but I'm not sure how you get Thursday as the traditional view.  Even the secular world says He was crucified on the Friday.


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#18
ADisciple

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My responses included within Atwood's quote ....

 

Day 1: Thursday Sunset - Friday Sunset = 1 Day and 1 Night combo: Crucifixion; 1st Entombment Day
Day 2: Friday Sunset - Saturday Sunset = 1 Day and 1 Night combo: 2nd Day Entombed
Day 3: Saturday Sunset - Sunday Sunset = 1 Day and 1 Night combo: 3rd Day Entombed; then Risen

 

This is absolutely correct. Going by the Jewish standard of a day being from sunset to sunset, the above layout is correct. I have met with Rabbis and Biblical scholars who ALL gave me this exact timetable of the days.

Biblical time reckoning: Any fraction of a day counts as a day. If a King came to the throne in the last month of a year, then ruled the entire following year; then died in the first month of the following year; he would have reigned 3 years (though we would say he ruled slightly more than 1 year).
 

This concept is also correct. It has also been suggested that that at the time of Jesus' death at roughly 3pm Friday afternoon, there was a full solar eclipse ... thus causing roughly 2.5-3 hours of a "mini-day" between the hours of 3pm and whatever hour sunset was in Jerusalem (let's say 8pm for argument's sake). I didn't learn about the eclipse until well after I had spoken with the Rabbis and scholars, so I have yet to validate if the Jewish faith considers a solar eclipse a cause for a mini day (short day).  If so, it would only lend more validation to a Friday afternoon crucifixion, if you are not accepting Thursday night-Friday day as Day 1 of the 3 days.

 

Lastly, it has been proven through astronomical records (NASA et al), that on that Friday ... there was a full solar eclipse in the afternoon (viewable completely from Jerusalem) AND there was a large earthquake that same day (ie, the veil in the temple torn).


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#19
19Duggarfan

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Jesus was born in 3BC and was about 33 when he died....   that would put his death in AD 30 and passover that year was on Friday April 6th so he would have been crucified on Thursday.

 

Other One this first time I can recall where I disagree with you, Jesus was born in 4BC and yes His Crucifixion and Resurrection where in 30AD, but Passover was on Wednesday and since Passover is not an High Sabbath, the First Day of the Feast of Leaven Bread was the High Sabbath, being spoken of. 

 

 

Scripture says, THREE days and THREE nights.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

The Church, and the whole world has taught us, TWO days and TWO nights.

 

Well, it would have to be two if Jesus was crucified on Friday night and rose Sunday morning.

 

 

So, the core question is, WHO TOLD US THAT IT WAS FRIDAY EVENING?

 

Truth is, no one told us that it was Friday.  The world has ASSUMED that it was Friday by, because the Scriptures say that they rushed Jesus' body down to prepare FOR THE SABBATH.  Apparently, we all saw "Sabbath" and instantly thought of Saturday.  So, we were all told something, and hardly anyone attempted to validate - not scholar nor priest nor pastor nor academic.

 

So, what I'm about to type to you will shake the very foundation of what you've been told.

 

 

PASSOVER.

 

In Leviticus 23, we see that the PASSOVER also is a Sabbath, commonly called the HIGH SABBATH.

 

Jesus and His 12 were preparing for ... the PASSOVER.

 

So, the Sabbath that they were trying to stay ahead of, wasn't the Saturday Sabbath, but instead the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen on the Friday, which means Jesus had to have been crucified ON THE THURSDAY.

 

OK, I know that just words to most of you.  So, don't take my word for it, instead take JOHNS word for it.

 

In John 19:31 John mentions the Sabbath, but he also makes it clear as to WHAT TYPE OF SABBATH.  He calls this Sabbath the "HIGH DAY", meaning, it was not the Saturday Sabbath that we all think it was, but instead it is the HIGH SABBATH OF THE PASSOVER.

 

All these centuries.  All the times we have collectively read that ... and we didn't even notice.

 

JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED ON THURSDAY, NOT FRIDAY.

 

 

Summary

1) Leviticus 23 gives us the root that the Passover is a Sabbath

2) John clearly shows us that it was the "high day", which is the Passover Sabbath, not the common Saturday Sabbath

3) The Greek word for Sabbath is also PLURAL (you can find "Sabbaths" in the English Old Testament, but "Sabbaths" does not exist in the NT, only "Sabbath days")

4) The Scripture about the women at the tomb of Jesus should be properly rendered as "Sabbaths" or "Sabbath days", not "Sabbath".  Why?  Because the Passover Sabbath was on FRIDAY and the regular Sabbath was on Saturday.  There were TWO SABBATHS.

 

That is how we have gotten it wrong for all these centuries.  We simply ASSUMED that the "Sabbath" meant Saturday, but we completely overlooked the PASSOVER SABBATH, which would have fallen ON the Friday ... meaning Jesus had to have been crucified ON the Thursday.

 

 

BOTTOM LINE:

 

This is how Jesus could have been in the earth for THREE days and THREE nights.  The traditional teaching that we have suggest TWO days and TWO nights ... and it's wrong.

 

It does matter, because it's the Word of God.

 

 

Now, of course it's too commercial and worldly, so don't expect it to change.  But, know the truth and share the truth with your pastors, teachers, friends, coworkers, and family.

 

 

I researched all of this and I saw that a great many commentators are also very, very wrong about this.

 

I heard this on Wisdom For the Heart, and then researched it myself, and apparently, Dr. Stephen Davey is spot on.  Spot on!

 

wisdomonline would be the webpage.  The sermons are awesome.

 

Excellent Post, Don, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

With the exception that I think that we should called it Wonderful Wednesday, not Thursday.   For we see Jesus stating that He would be in the grave 3 days and nights, Matthew 12:40.

 

And if Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, and buried just shortly before sunset, that would make Wednesday night-Thursday morning, the first day.  The second would have been Thursday night-Friday morning, and the Third Friday night-Saturday morning so that at sunset Saturday would have been the First day of the Week, because the Jewish day began sunset the day before.   So we would see Jesus Christ fulfilling the Firstfruit(s); by raising from the dead on the first day of the week, Leviticus 23:10-12.

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the Firstfruits of them that slept.

I Corinthians 15:20
 

 

 

Wednesday crucifixion (which I do not agree with):

 

Wednesday night - 1st night

Thursday morning - 1st morning

Thursday night - 2nd night

Friday morning - 2nd morning

Friday night - 3rd night

Saturday morning - 3rd morning

Saturday night - 4th night

Sunday morning (resurrection) - 4th morning

 

That is FOUR days and FOUR nights (the Jewish calendar is 'force feeding' and it doesn't fit the Scripture) ... not to mention that it also ignore the fact that the Passover was on the Friday, the HIGH SABBATH.  It also completely ignores that fact that they were rushing the body down for the High Sabbath (Passover) ... and that was not on Thursday, it was on Friday.

 

 

Traditional teaching is (which we've all been taught):

 

Friday night - 1st night

Saturday morning - 1st morning

Saturday night - 2nd night

Sunday morning (resurrection) - 2nd morning

 

 

True Biblical and Historical:

 

Thursday night - 1st night

Friday morning - 1st morning

Friday night - 2nd night

Saturday morning - 2nd morning

Saturday night - 3rd night

Sunday morning (resurrection) - 3rd morning

 

This is the only scenario that agrees with THREE days and THREE nights.  It is the only scenario that agrees with the Gospel of John, which clearly says that the sabbath they were perparing for was the HIGH SABBATH, which was the Friday, not the Saturday Sabbath that we all thought it was for all these centuries.

 

Personally, I'm convinced.  Apparently, Jews (those who actually know what the Passover intails) actualy agree.  Seems to me that if more Jews would have been Christain, or cared about Christianity, we would have been told our error a long, long time ago.  This is actually an embarrassment to Christendom ... AND the world (for they didn't bother to verify either).  Same for scholars and professors.  No one bothered to really study this.  Commentaries even have it wrong ....

 

... cause everyone has over looked that the Passover is also a Sabbath and John showed us that the sabbath was the HIGH DAY, clearly, clearly, clearly showing us which Sabbath they were rushing Jesus' body down for.

 

We missed it ... all these centuries.  And John makes it so, so, so very painfully clear. 

 

My question is, how could we have come THIS far with this bad teaching?  A Friday crucifixion simply doesn't fit the Biblical Scripture of THREE days and THREE nights ... no matter how people try to force feed the Jewish calendar.  Their calendar means nothing.

 

 

If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and buried just before Sunset, that leaves Wednesday out.   The Jews have two parts of the day, evening (night/darkness) and day (morning after sunrise to sunset).   Wednesday night and  Thursday sunrise to sunset make one whole day.  The same with Thursday and Friday;  and also Friday and Saturday. 

If one looks at Lamsa's Translation of the Peshitta you will read:

In the evening of the Sabbath when the first day of the week began to dawn, there came Mary of Magdala and other Mary to see the tomb.

Matthew 28:1

 

And when Jesus was risen again, early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magadalene, out of whom He had cast out seven devils.

Mark 16:9 Geneva Bible


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#20
Macs Son

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I think both the day of Jesus' death and His subsequent resurrection is clearly stated to us in Scripture if we are paying attention to the details there.  I've always found there's much more in the Bible than we initially realize.

  1. He was crucified on preparation day, which was the day before the Passover.  (John 19:31,42; Luke 23:54; Mark 15:42; Matthew 27:62); We also have an early church father, Ignatius, circa AD107, in his letter to Trallians chapter 9, who also states, "The day of preparation then comprises the passion, the Sabbath embraces the burial and the Lords Day contains the resurrection".
  2. He was in tomb 3 nights and days, as Christ prophesied this about Himself; according to the sign of Jonah  (Matthew 12:40); also according to the symbolism that of bread of life being unavailable for 3 days before it would miraculously feed us all (Matthew 15:32 & Mark 8:2) Also according to the symbolism of the Son being lost for 3 days and found in the temple (Luke 2:46); According to the prophesy He was, Himself, the temple that would be rebuilt in 3 days (John 2:19-20; also see Matthew 26:61, 27:40, 63, Mark 15:29; According to what He told His disciples (Mark 8:31) - there's probably more.
  3. He arose on the first day of the week - Sunday the Lord's Day.  (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1,19)
  4. If we then take Jesus at His Word then 3 days, working back from Sunday at Dawn, would be: Day 3 - Saturday Evening to Sunday Dawn; Day 2 - Friday Evening to Saturday Dawn to Sunset; Day 1 - Thursday Evening thru Friday dawn to Sunset.  Jesus died just prior to the start of Passover a Sabbath Day, which according to Jewish tradition begins in the evening - therefore the rush to get Him into the tomb beforehand.  We are told He died in the 9th hour, (about 6 PM - Matthew 27:45-46). This is about as close to the real beginning of Passover as one can get.  
  5. We know that the women who followed Jesus were prevented from bringing the spices and fragrant oils they had prepared because of the Sabbath.  (Luke 23:56)   But if the Sabbath were only one day, wouldn't they have brought them after Passover was over? (i.e. if Passover was on a Wednesday (Tuesday night to Sunset Wednesday) then they could have brought them at dawn on Thursday;  If Passover was on Thursday (Wednesday night to Sunset Thursday) then they could have brought them at dawn on Friday morning.  Instead they brought them on Sunday at dawn.  This implies that their honoring of the Sabbath was over two days, the Passover Sabbath which began on Thursday Evening and ended at sunset Friday, and the normal 7th day Sabbath, which began at Sunset Friday and ended at Sunset Saturday night.  Sunday dawn then, with respect to the Sabbath, fulfills their honoring of the Sabbath and setting out before dawn to bring the oils and spices to the tomb of Jesus.
  • So I believe we are looking at a Thursday Crucifixion on preparation day.
  • We can refine our boundaries as to the year both by Scripture and  historical sources as we know Pontius Pilate reign in AD26 (Josephus 18), the year prior to the genesis of John the Baptist's ministry [Luke 3:1-6].  It ended in AD 36 prior to the visit of Vitellius in AD 36. So we have a boundary of 10 years in which to find a Passover beginning on a Thursday evening followed by a 7th day Sabbath beginning Friday Evening and ending Saturday Evening, which both fulfills the 3 nights and days Jesus stated he would spend in the tomb as well as the honoring by the Ladies of the Sabbath and their journey out to the tomb just before dawn Sunday morning.
  • Passover occurs at the full moon.  Using both the calculated Jewish Calender ( http://www.cgsf.org/dbeattie/calendar ) and the Actual Lunar cycle from that time period http://www.timeandda...tml?year-30&n=0 we come up with two dates where Passover would have started on a Thursday night, where it follows preparation day being Nissan 14 from Sunset to sunset Nissan 15. 
  • That being the Roman year of AD30, which fits more cleanly with Jesus 3 year ministry beginning after John began baptizing in AD27 and Saint Paul becoming a Christian in AD34/35.  We also get a hit on AD34 but that would appear to late to fit in with the chronology we find in Acts with regard to Stephen and Paul.
  • Jesus would have on the night of preparation day Nissan 14 been brought before the Sanhedrin and at dawn the following morning, still by Hebrew standards Nissan 14, to Pilate. In the sixth hour, or around noon time, He was crucified and by the ninth hour he had expired on the cross (about 3 PM).  Passover, Nissan 15 officially began with the full moon at 9:37 that evening.  That gives Joseph time to ask Pilate and with Nicodemus hurredly able to place Jesus' body in the tomb before it before breaking the Sabbath. 
  • The Passover Sabbath ran from Thursday 9:37 PM to sunset or even later Friday, and then became the Sabbath
  • The 7th day Sabbath then began Friday Evening and lasted to Saturday evening
  • Jesus arose the next day Sunday Nissan 17 at about Dawn after being dead before the end of Nissan 14, the whole day of Nissan 15 (Passover), the 7th day Sabbath honoring the rest of the Lord (Nissan 16).
  • Praise to the Sabbath rest of Passover, by which the curse was passed over, and the 7th day Sabbath where God rested His work it being completely accomplished on the 7th day.  On the 8th day, or the first day of our weekly cycle, He then arose in fullness and Glory.

 

In Christ, Patrick


Edited by Macs Son, 07 June 2014 - 01:38 PM.

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