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Islanders, can they be saved?

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Who are Islanders? Islanders are people who have never met a pastor or missionary and have never had the opportunity to read the Bible before. Can these people be Christians? Or, do they automatically go to Hell? Bear in mind that for thousands of years Native Americans and other groups of people fell into this category. For the sake of this topic, we are going to refer to these people as "Islanders".

 

I believe that these people can become Christians. However, I am going to hold-off on stating my reasoning for this. I want to see what others will say first, then I will share my reasoning. ^_^

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The Bible says that Jesus decides who does and who does not go to heaven.....   He gives us a pretty stable way to be sure we can be part of heaven, but he also really doesn't tell us for sure what he will do with those who have never heard the Gospel.....    I have some ideas from Matthew chapter 25, but certainly not something I'd care to bet my soul on.

 

From my point of view those people will be in the hands of a very just Jesus....   Whatever He decides to do with them will be just and fair...   but I seriously don't think we need to be making those judgments for him.

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For those who had not, or have not, head of God, Romans 2 covers this.  Verses 12-16
 

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

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They can only be saved if they somehow come to know Jesus before they die.  In the book of Acts, you see two instances of people seeking God that didn't know Jesus.  In one case, it was a man called Cornelius.  God had an angel get Peter to go to him and explain the message of the gospel.  Only after he and his household accepted Christ were they saved.  In another instance, there was a eunuch sitting in a chariot reading from one of the prophets, and God supernaturally took a Christian to him to explain the gospel.  Only after he believed and accepted Jesus was he saved.  You can't get saved after you die. 

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Blessings Taken....

      We have gone over this subject many times before and as I have always shared that just knowing Gods Will is that none should perish and the fact that He did not even spare His Only begotten Son so that humankind can have the opportunity to be reconciled back to Him gives me confidence that He will give every single person on earth the same opportunity................I believe He makes Himself known to everyone

                                                                                                                                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

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They can only be saved if they somehow come to know Jesus before they die.  In the book of Acts, you see two instances of people seeking God that didn't know Jesus.  In one case, it was a man called Cornelius.  God had an angel get Peter to go to him and explain the message of the gospel.  Only after he and his household accepted Christ were they saved.  In another instance, there was a eunuch sitting in a chariot reading from one of the prophets, and God supernaturally took a Christian to him to explain the gospel.  Only after he believed and accepted Jesus was he saved.  You can't get saved after you die. 

 

Exemption for those who lived in pre-Christian times - surely not?

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Blessings Taken....

      We have gone over this subject many times before and as I have always shared that just knowing Gods Will is that none should perish and the fact that He did not even spare His Only begotten Son so that humankind can have the opportunity to be reconciled back to Him gives me confidence that He will give every single person on earth the same opportunity................I believe He makes Himself known to everyone

                                                                                                                                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

Glad to see you back, Kwik. Where have you been?

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Blessings Oak.....

    I have not been well but Praise & Glory to God ....He gives me strength & here I am.............thank You for asking,I missed you all!

                                                                                                                                                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

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Blessings Oak.....

    I have not been well but Praise & Glory to God ....He gives me strength & here I am.............thank You for asking,I missed you all!

                                                                                                                                                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

It was only a day or two, but you're fairly prolific so it seemed out of character.

 

Anyway, I'd better not hijack this thread any more. Back to the question.

 

Can Islanders be saved? Yes, I think so. Give me time and I'll dig out the scripture that I believe says so.

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Check these:

 

John 5:28-29
Revelation 20:12-13

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Indeed, God will give everyone an opportunity to get saved if they seek him, as Cornelius did and as the eunuch did, but they still had to learn of Jesus before they could be saved.  In that way, I agree with Kwikphilly, but if someone is claiming a person can make it to heaven and not know Jesus in this life, they are wrong.  The Bible doesn't teach that.  There is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved.  There is no reason to even send missionaries anywhere, or even preach the gospel for that reason, if we can wait till after this life is over and then get saved when we meet Jesus in the next life. 

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The scripture in John is speaking of those who died with faith in Christ.  Their physical bodies will hear Jesus voice and be raised from the dead.  It is not saying people will get a chance to get saved if they didn't know him in this life. 

 

The scripture in Revelation is only speaking of the judgment all must face.  It doesn't do anything to support your position that it is possible to be saved if you die not having known Jesus in this life. 

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The scripture in John is speaking of those who died with faith in Christ.  Their physical bodies will hear Jesus voice and be raised from the dead.  It is not saying people will get a chance to get saved if they didn't know him in this life. 

 

The scripture in Revelation is only speaking of the judgment all must face.  It doesn't do anything to support your position that it is possible to be saved if you die not having known Jesus in this life. 

 

It's not a judgement that all must face. Christians are exempt.. Those who endured the great Tribulation and are beheaded do not face this judgement. Besides, why are Christians judged according to what they have done? Aren't our sins forgiven? Am I to be judged because of what I did before I was saved?

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God doesn't need our help to make Himself known. He expects it of us, He commands it of us, but He is more than capable without us. Whether there is any human to bring the word of God to "islanders" or not will not necessarily prevent God from knowing them.... or them from knowing Him. in ecclesiastes 3 and romans 1 God says He will reveal Himself in nature and in the hearts of people. even if they never hear a human being tell them about Jesus, they (we) are all born with the ability to recognize Him, if we will. it is then their choice whether to accept or reject what they instinctively know to be true.

 

that doesn't excuse us from going out into the world and sharing the truth with people though. we are required to do what we can to make sure that they not only HEAR about God, but that they SEE God in us. we have to show them who Jesus is by being a living example of His love, compassion and mercy. Not because God's incapable of getting the message across to them without us, but because it is an act of obedience.

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We will all stand before God and be judged.  The sinners will be judged according to their works and punished accordingly, and the Christians will be rewarded.  Christians won't be judged in the same manner sinners are, but they will be judged. 

 

To LadyC, I agree with you in a way, in that God doesn't have to send a person in the manner he did in Acts, but he has to use some method to make Jesus known to someone if they are to be saved.  He can send an angel if he wants to.  He could reveal Jesus to them in a dream.  God's is able to do all things.  I don't believe someone can be saved just because they believe in some generic god.  Anyway, it is good to see you back posting.  I hope all is well in Texas. 

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God has revealed Himself in nature and in the hearts of people.We as Christians have been called to spread the Gospel.In reality it is not that some have not heard about God but the ones who have rejected what they have heard.

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We will all stand before God and be judged.  The sinners will be judged according to their works and punished accordingly, and the Christians will be rewarded.  Christians won't be judged in the same manner sinners are, but they will be judged. 

 

To LadyC, I agree with you in a way, in that God doesn't have to send a person in the manner he did in Acts, but he has to use some method to make Jesus known to someone if they are to be saved.  He can send an angel if he wants to.  He could reveal Jesus to them in a dream.  God's is able to do all things.  I don't believe someone can be saved just because they believe in some generic god.  Anyway, it is good to see you back posting.  I hope all is well in Texas. 

 

i don't believe anyone can be saved by believing in some generic god either, butero... and God wouldn't reveal some generic god to someone's heart, nor does He reveal some generic god through nature. He reveals Himself... but yes, i do understand what you're getting at. if they haven't heard the name of Jesus, who is to say they won't make up some generic god to explain what they are seeing in nature?  i don't know how He does it, i just know that He can. maybe it is through an angel, or a dream, like you suggest. i couldn't say. i'm not God, and i'm not an "islander", to use the OP's terminology. 

 

i don't know how long i'll stick around here posting. i go through cycles. after a while it seems like i keep getting drawn into controversial topics and all that bickering tends to affect my entire life, and i find myself becoming short tempered on the home front. then i have to leave for long, long stretches. but as for texas, all is definitely well. i do miss las vegas though, and my church family and friends there, and the food bank ministry. but here i have family... at least my extended family. i'm still praying my daughters and their families will move back to this side of the country. 

 

the best part of being back in texas is that my husband left behind all the bad stuff that influenced him on a daily basis there... he's been clean and sober for three years now, he quit smoking a year ago, and God has restored our relationship to what it should be... full of laughter and joy. so yep, all is well in texas :)

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It seems that we all agree, God can see everyone on earth and is fully capable of providing everyone with the chance to be saved.

 

What I was going to say was this. There are 3 major ways that we connect with God.

 

1. Listening to a Pastor or missionary.

 

2. Reading the Bible.

 

3. Talking with God personally.

 

The first 2 are meaningless without the third. Many men have spent their lives reading the Bible and listening to pastors without truly becoming saved. During the Old Testament, most of the heroes of the Bible would listen to God (a lot of them didn't even have a Bible to read). Many of them lived during a time before Moses had even written a word of the Bible. 

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A friend can bring a person to Christ as well.Tell that person who Jesus Christ is and tell them that Jesus loves them.Maybe then offer a BIble to that person.Then offer to answer any questions they have about their salvation.

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We will all stand before God and be judged.  The sinners will be judged according to their works and punished accordingly, and the Christians will be rewarded.  Christians won't be judged in the same manner sinners are, but they will be judged. 

 

To LadyC, I agree with you in a way, in that God doesn't have to send a person in the manner he did in Acts, but he has to use some method to make Jesus known to someone if they are to be saved.  He can send an angel if he wants to.  He could reveal Jesus to them in a dream.  God's is able to do all things.  I don't believe someone can be saved just because they believe in some generic god.  Anyway, it is good to see you back posting.  I hope all is well in Texas. 

 

i don't believe anyone can be saved by believing in some generic god either, butero... and God wouldn't reveal some generic god to someone's heart, nor does He reveal some generic god through nature. He reveals Himself... but yes, i do understand what you're getting at. if they haven't heard the name of Jesus, who is to say they won't make up some generic god to explain what they are seeing in nature?  i don't know how He does it, i just know that He can. maybe it is through an angel, or a dream, like you suggest. i couldn't say. i'm not God, and i'm not an "islander", to use the OP's terminology. 

 

i don't know how long i'll stick around here posting. i go through cycles. after a while it seems like i keep getting drawn into controversial topics and all that bickering tends to affect my entire life, and i find myself becoming short tempered on the home front. then i have to leave for long, long stretches. but as for texas, all is definitely well. i do miss las vegas though, and my church family and friends there, and the food bank ministry. but here i have family... at least my extended family. i'm still praying my daughters and their families will move back to this side of the country. 

 

the best part of being back in texas is that my husband left behind all the bad stuff that influenced him on a daily basis there... he's been clean and sober for three years now, he quit smoking a year ago, and God has restored our relationship to what it should be... full of laughter and joy. so yep, all is well in texas :)

 

I know there is a huge difference in northern Texas as opposed  Las Vegas.  In my mind, I am picturing Amarillo verses Las Vegas, and there is a night and day difference.  There is always something to do in the Vegas area, and by comparison, Texas if very quiet.  I am sure that takes an adjustment.  Anyway, I am glad to hear your husband is "clean and sober," and that things are going well for the two of you.  I am very happy for you.

 

People are never going to agree on controversial topics.  Just try not to take things personal.  I have been working on my own attitude for years in that regard.  I felt like I had a responsibility to "straighten everyone out," but then I realized that I have no way to know I am always correct, and even if I am, God didn't place that burden on me.  Once I share the truth, if others don't agree, so be it. 

 

God bless you and your family, and I hope everything works out as you desire with your daughters and your family moving back. 

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Indeed, God will give everyone an opportunity to get saved if they seek him, as Cornelius did and as the eunuch did, but they still had to learn of Jesus before they could be saved.  In that way, I agree with Kwikphilly, but if someone is claiming a person can make it to heaven and not know Jesus in this life, they are wrong.  The Bible doesn't teach that.  There is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved.  There is no reason to even send missionaries anywhere, or even preach the gospel for that reason, if we can wait till after this life is over and then get saved when we meet Jesus in the next life. 

 

No, Butero, there is plenty of reason to preach the Gospel, even if God does provide a loophole for those who never heard of Jesus.

 

There are so many lost in darkness who would never have met the criteria of that loophole had they not heard the Gospel. Yet, receiving the Gospel they are new creations.

 

Likewise, many were suffering the wages of sin in this life who found deliverance through Christ now having come to know Him.

 

Thus, there is no justifiable, logical, theological, or philosophical reason for discounting Romans 2:12-16 for what it says at face-value.

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....there is no justifiable, logical, theological, or philosophical reason for discounting Romans 2:12-16 for what it says at face-value....

 

:thumbsup:

 

At

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Face

 

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:12-16

 

Value

 

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

 

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Mark 10:25-27

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Indeed, God will give everyone an opportunity to get saved if they seek him, as Cornelius did and as the eunuch did, but they still had to learn of Jesus before they could be saved.  In that way, I agree with Kwikphilly, but if someone is claiming a person can make it to heaven and not know Jesus in this life, they are wrong.  The Bible doesn't teach that.  There is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved.  There is no reason to even send missionaries anywhere, or even preach the gospel for that reason, if we can wait till after this life is over and then get saved when we meet Jesus in the next life. 

 

No, Butero, there is plenty of reason to preach the Gospel, even if God does provide a loophole for those who never heard of Jesus.

 

There are so many lost in darkness who would never have met the criteria of that loophole had they not heard the Gospel. Yet, receiving the Gospel they are new creations.

 

Likewise, many were suffering the wages of sin in this life who found deliverance through Christ now having come to know Him.

 

Thus, there is no justifiable, logical, theological, or philosophical reason for discounting Romans 2:12-16 for what it says at face-value.

 

Lets take your passage at face value. 

 

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:  and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law:

 

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God; but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

For when the Gentiles which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

 

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

All this is saying is that there are people that believe in Jesus that were never under the law of Moses.  They are gentiles and they automatically do the things contained in the law because they walk in the Spirit, and as a result, they have eternal life.  At the same time, there are people that did once live under the law of Moses, yet they didn't obey it.  They are Jewish people, and they should have been living according to the teachings of Moses, but they didn't.  They will perish.  This has nothing to do with people who have never heard the gospel. 

Edited by Butero
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I could post what I believe here, but that would be duplicating my own words.  Instead, to see what I think of those who have not been told scripture, about God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

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I could post what I believe here, but that would be duplicating my own words.  Instead, to see what I think of those who have not been told scripture, about God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

I don't share your belief, but I know there are others who do.  Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you or me or another person chooses to defend "Island people."  It comes down to how God deals with them on judgment day. 

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