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Is Christ Dead?

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#1
jerryR34

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If He is, He did not rise again for us, if not, He did not die for us.  How do we explain this to non-Christians?


Edited by jerryR34, 21 April 2014 - 03:38 PM.


#2
bopeep1909

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1) If God is dead, there are no moral absolutes and no universal standard to which all men should conform.

2) If God is dead, there is no purpose or rational order in life.

3) If God is dead, any design seen in the universe is projected by men who are desperate to find meaning in life.

4) If God is dead, man is independent and totally free to create his own values.

5) If God is dead, the "real" world (as opposed to a heaven and hell) is man's only concern.

The idea that "God is dead" is primarily a challenge to God's authority over our lives. The notion that we can safely create our own rules was the lie that the serpent told Eve: "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5). Peter warns us that "there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction" (2 Peter 2:1).

The "God is dead" argument is usually presented as a rational, empowering philosophy for artists and intellectuals. But scripture calls it foolish. "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1). Ironically, those who hold to the “God is dead” philosophy will discover the fatal error in the philosophy when they themselves are dead.

Read more: http://www.gotquesti...l#ixzz2zYWkvW7I


#3
Parker1

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Christ is not dead. He did die to pay the price for my sin. But then GOD raised Him up again. He sits in Heaven at the right hand of GOD. You can't explain anything to a non-believer unless they are called first by GOD to receive what you have to say. That includes believing in the resurrection of the dead. For GOD is the GOD of the living, not the dead. HE is the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And me.



#4
Fez

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If He is, He did not rise again for us, if not, He did not die for us.  How do we explain this to non-Christians?

Incarnate yes. As God no.



#5
jerryR34

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If He is still with the Father, did he sacrifice anything?  How is Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit any different now than before His sacrifice?



#6
Parker1

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He died as a sinless man. He didn't die as GOD.



#7
Littlelambseativy

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God made a promise to Abraham that his progeny would be as the sands of the sea. as you can see, Abraham's descendants are flourishing and though man has though the millennia attempted to destroy them,they survive and thrive. God lives as do His promises. Therefore as long as there is a Jew - know that there is a God and yes,He lives ! Since God is in Christ and Christ is in God, Christ lives.

#8
gray wolf

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1 Cor 15 12-19

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.



#9
ayin jade

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My Lord lives. Christ was seen after His death on the cross, which was witnessed by many, and His resurrection was witnessed by many. Eye witness accounts show He rose again. 



#10
jerryR34

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If He lives, how can He have died for us?  If He died, how can He have been resurrected.  Sometimes it is difficult to see the sacrifice when a Being is eternal...Sorry to ask hard questions, but I'm trying to make sense of this especially at Easter time. 



#11
jerryR34

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1) If God is dead, there are no moral absolutes and no universal standard to which all men should conform.

2) If God is dead, there is no purpose or rational order in life.

3) If God is dead, any design seen in the universe is projected by men who are desperate to find meaning in life.

4) If God is dead, man is independent and totally free to create his own values.

5) If God is dead, the "real" world (as opposed to a heaven and hell) is man's only concern.

The idea that "God is dead" is primarily a challenge to God's authority over our lives. The notion that we can safely create our own rules was the lie that the serpent told Eve: "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5). Peter warns us that "there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction" (2 Peter 2:1).

The "God is dead" argument is usually presented as a rational, empowering philosophy for artists and intellectuals. But scripture calls it foolish. "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1). Ironically, those who hold to the “God is dead” philosophy will discover the fatal error in the philosophy when they themselves are dead.

Read more: http://www.gotquesti...l#ixzz2zYWkvW7I

 

If Jesus died, how can he be alive now, and if he is not dead, how can he be a sacrifice for our sins? 



#12
ayin jade

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Fez gave a good answer to that.



#13
jerryR34

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Fez gave a good answer to that.

I'm not sure I've seen a good answer to that.  Seems like maybe Jesus should have taken our place in hell forever separated from God for their to be a true sacrifice for us.  What the Bible says seems to be a blip in eternity for God...



#14
other one

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Jerry, from my perspective it seems that your confusion comes from you seem to think that God is one single entity...   The term God does not refer to a single entity, but a trio that are working so closely and connected that we perceive them as one.  Jesus being one of the three did physically die......   grave yard dead as Jerry Clower would say.     However his spirit just as yours and mine does not die at physical death and the Father raised him from the dead and gave him back the glory that he sat aside to become a physical human in the form of Jesus.  



#15
jerryR34

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Jerry, from my perspective it seems that your confusion comes from you seem to think that God is one single entity... The term God does not refer to a single entity, but a trio that are working so closely and connected that we perceive them as one. Jesus being one of the three did physically die...... grave yard dead as Jerry Clower would say. However his spirit just as yours and mine does not die at physical death and the Father raised him from the dead and gave him back the glory that he sat aside to become a physical human in the form of Jesus.


So, is one dead and the other two go on?

#16
ConnorLiamBrown

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Jerry, from my perspective it seems that your confusion comes from you seem to think that God is one single entity... The term God does not refer to a single entity, but a trio that are working so closely and connected that we perceive them as one. Jesus being one of the three did physically die...... grave yard dead as Jerry Clower would say. However his spirit just as yours and mine does not die at physical death and the Father raised him from the dead and gave him back the glory that he sat aside to become a physical human in the form of Jesus.


So, is one dead and the other two go on?

 

 

We need to distinguish the human Jesus from the 2nd Person (if any say that is blasphemy, then I ask, did God create ex nihilo?  If so, then God the Son existed "before" the Incarnation and therefore can be spoken of as distinct).

 

Death means the separation of soul from body (or, for a materialist, the disintegration of the body).  The human Jesus died; God the Son did not.  Aquinas puts it this way--before the crucifixion, the soul and body were united within the 2nd Person; at the crucifixion, the soul and body were separated, but still within the 2nd Person.  

 

clb



#17
ConnorLiamBrown

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Fez gave a good answer to that.

I'm not sure I've seen a good answer to that.  Seems like maybe Jesus should have taken our place in hell forever separated from God for their to be a true sacrifice for us.  What the Bible says seems to be a blip in eternity for God...

 

Atonement theories attempt to explain the "mechanics" of salvation.  But the NT is less interested in the mechanics than in the result--just as someone going to Hawaii is less interested in the plain than the weather upon arriving.

 

Your comment assumes one atonement theory, and one I reject--propitiation or exchange.  In this, Jesus takes our place and is condemned, and so, your objection is good.  If a man is going to take my place as a convict sentenced to life imprisonment, well, he ought to be imprisoned for life.

 

But the NT never says that God condemned Jesus--it says that God condemned "sin IN Jesus".

 

For me, the best "theory" is participation.  Jesus did not die so that we do not have to; he died so that we might die as he did.  We participate in his death and resurrection.  Yes, this is mystical, in the sense that it defies our habitual experiences.  But then, no one said that this was going to be normal.

 

clb



#18
other one

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Jerry, from my perspective it seems that your confusion comes from you seem to think that God is one single entity... The term God does not refer to a single entity, but a trio that are working so closely and connected that we perceive them as one. Jesus being one of the three did physically die...... grave yard dead as Jerry Clower would say. However his spirit just as yours and mine does not die at physical death and the Father raised him from the dead and gave him back the glory that he sat aside to become a physical human in the form of Jesus.


So, is one dead and the other two go on?

 

nope, they raised him from the dead......   he was dead physically for three days and they made him alive again and over 500 people saw him....   After his ascension to heaven to be in the presence of the Father he received a glorified body that will never die....   as will we if we are chosen to be with him...



#19
OneLight

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If He lives, how can He have died for us?  If He died, how can He have been resurrected.  Sometimes it is difficult to see the sacrifice when a Being is eternal...Sorry to ask hard questions, but I'm trying to make sense of this especially at Easter time.


Do you believe in God, that He is eternal, no beginning and no end?

#20
jerryR34

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If He lives, how can He have died for us? If He died, how can He have been resurrected. Sometimes it is difficult to see the sacrifice when a Being is eternal...Sorry to ask hard questions, but I'm trying to make sense of this especially at Easter time.

Do you believe in God, that He is eternal, no beginning and no end?





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