Jump to content

christian forums

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Forums

Welcome to Worthy Christian Forums
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

What did Christ sacrifice if he is with God in Heaven?

* * * * * 1 votes

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
117 replies to this topic

#1
jerryR34

jerryR34

    Veteran Member

  • Nonbeliever
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 712 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon, USA

Is the fact He lowered himself for a brief moment in His eternal existence to face the challenges we face on a daily basis worthy of being called a sacrifice? We face these daily, and if we succumb to the fact we are not pertect, and question it, we potentially face eternal punishment for a finite existence...Did Jesus really sacrifice anything?  I take umberage at being called a nonbeliever here...


Edited by jerryR34, 25 April 2014 - 05:36 PM.

  • 2

#2
bopeep1909

bopeep1909

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,768 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pacific NW
  • Interests:Reading,Knitting,Jigsaw Puzzles.and I love to bake.

Because He loves us.


  • 1

#3
Atwood

Atwood

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 360 posts
Jerry has posted:

"Is the fact He lowered himself for a brief moment in His eternal existence to face the challenges we face on a daily basis worthy of being called a sacrifice? We face these daily, and if we succumb to the fact we are not pertect, and question it, we potentially face eternal punishment for a finite existence...Did Jesus really sacrifice anything? I take umberage at being called a nonbeliever here..."

So you take umbrage at being labeled a nonbeliever. What would you prefer to wear as a label? (Not that I have any input as to your label.)

It would appear that you don't understand substitutionary atonement. Christ's life and earthly vicissitudes were not atoning. Of course we have troubles due to our own folly and due to our carrying the sinfulness of Adam in our nature. The virgin conceived Lord Jesus never sinned.

Let me explain the substitutionary atonement.
1) All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

2) The wages of sin is death.

We are sinners doomed to a short life with our spirits to be separated from our bodies. Already we live in a state of death to the extent that we are separated from God by our sins.

3) The 2nd person of the Trinity, the Lord Jesus, became a man in the family of Adam (yet without the sin nature aspect). As a man He was our substitute paying for our sins. That is the sacrifice. He went to the cross and paid the punishment which we deserve for our sins. Since He was God in His divine nature, He was able in a few hours to pay the eternal consequences of our sin, eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire. He bore our Hell on the cross, crying, "My God, My God; why have you forsaken Me." At the end He cried, "It is finished." The full payment for our sins had been made. God commends His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. He died on our behalf and instead of us going to the Lake of Fire. Then He rose from the dead.

Perhaps you would like to mediate on Psalms 22 and Isaiah 52-53 where Christ's death is prophesied (with its sacrificial aspect) centuries before He died.

4) Now He can offer eternal life as a free gift merely for trusting Him as Savior. The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. What must I do to be saved? "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast."

Do you have enough faith right now to ask the Lord Jesus to save you? What prevents you now from calling out for salvation? For whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved. Call out now: "Risen Lord Jesus, please change me, transform me from a sinner to a child of God, save me, and give me your free gift of eternal life. I do now trust You as my only and sufficient Savior, and I depend on Your substitutionary death on the cross as full payment for all my sins."
  • 3

#4
Donibm

Donibm

    Advanced Member

  • Members *
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:FL, USA
  • Interests:Attempting to close profile ... but I don't see how to close this account.

what did he sacrifice?  is that a trick question?

 

 

GOD!  he who is perfect to become a worm?

 

GOD!  he who is so far above us, and even having created being below him, but above us, came to die for us?

 

GOD! he who is just and could have simply wiped us from existence, choose to suffer and die, AND KEEP THE SCARS, just to save us from Hellfire?

 

GOD!  he who knew not obedience, sweat, hunger, foul things coming out of our body, bleeding, the pain of nerve endings, the scurge of spit, mockery and a whip ... to submit to all of that?

 

GOD! who did NOT need to come and save you, but choose to!

 

... and you question his sacrifice?

 

is this why I see people going to the alter sunday after sunday, dry-eyes, showing no signs of sorrow OR a joy of salvation?  not knowing what  God has done for you, or his sacrifice, seems to be why there are so many weak and carnal so-called Christians in America.

 

 

 

Fine.  Bring it down to human terms. 

 

YOU, a human being, to have dominion on the earth, become a slug.  A slow, slimy, crawling, brainless and seemingly functionless creature that even other animals know are less than they are.  Yet YOU become one.  You live with one.  crawl along in your belly, are scored by the sun, and even rats and mice and rodents consider you less then they are, as they are less than human beings.  You do all of that ... just to save slugs.  You don't HAVE to either.  You do it because you know that if you do not tell the slugs not to go that way, they will all go towards a desert, and they will all, likewise, die.  And even then, you didn't have to do it.  And now that you've returned to being a man, head over all created beings on earth, here you are, having SLUGS ask "what did he sacrifice?  it wasn't anything special"

 

Well, when you stand before the Judge of all, and your soul must go either Heaven or Hell ... then you will know just how grand His sacrifice really was ... for better or for worst.

 

 

no, I'm not giving you an "emotional ceremony" ... but god is watching every idol word.  "Woe to the scribes AND the Pharisee".  Yes, even scribes (typers, writers, forum participants) will face a very harsh Judgment.


  • 2

#5
kwikphilly

kwikphilly

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,087 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:South Florida
  • Interests:My Heavenly Father,Jesus Christ,the Holy Spirit,the Bible,people,all Gods creatures(great,small & furry),from the sublime to the ridiculous,learning in general,artwork,animal trainer,cooking & eating,laughing

Blessings Jerrry

     I figured you were going to start another thread to resume this conversation,I am glad  because I only posted you the little poem & then the topic changed (more specifically ) to this one & I did not get a chance to respond............Oh,I am glad the baby & the little finger made you smile :mgcheerful: ,you are very nice to talk with

     Please forgive me if I repeat what the others may have said -honestly,I have not read the posts,okay? Jerry ,it is so much more than what we see  through our mortal eyes & our logical minds........I have said it many ,many times that knowledge & intellect usually gets in the way of Wisdom.....most men(& women-lol) seem to think they know everything and will actually tell you their opinion as if that is the Word of God......there  are many Scriptures that tell us what Christ did,why He did it,how He did it,when He did it......We know the very few Words He spoke before ,during & after the actual crucifixion,the Holy Spirit reveals to us the Heart & Mind of Christ ....BUT,to actually look down from the cross,instead of looking up is not so easy and I can only offer you my opinion.....

       Jerry,as I mentioned(& of course you know) we are but mere mortals and Jesus is so much more,even in the physical,mortal body He is much more than a human and He suffered much more than any human could ever endure..............we now the whippings were more than the maximum by law & it is believed that anyone else could not have survived it,even just by the loss of Blood,there were the beatings,horrific torture & he was maimed beyond recognition...............we know all those gory atrocities he suffered but I know that is not your point,,,,it is the 6 hours & you feel there are people that have suffered worse for longer,right?Well,I do believe & I have often tried to imagine this...that the worst thing He endured was bearing the weight of the sins of the world.......the world Jerry!

        Have you ever read in the Psalms by David when he sinned against God with Bathsheba & had her husband killed?He slept with another mans wife & murdered him to cover up her pregnancy by himself.................Jerry,Davids anguish & pain is unbearable,he cries out to God because his bones hurt so badly,he is literally writhing in pain and agony....he is tormented by the guilt and shame....he has knowingly disobeyed , disrespected the One He loves passionately,faithfully,reverently(above anything or anyone) & he cannot live without His forgiveness,His love,His being near to his heart......................that is just one man  Jerry,,,,,,imagine Davids torment increased by millions of times (every human beings sins past ,present & future!!!!!)              that is what Jesus endured!!!!!! What human being could receive that unto themselves ,It does not stop there.....then He felt the absence of His Father,forsaken(outer darkness & void)....remember Davids anguish just thinking that God has turned His face fro Him......................He was forsaken & do we know where He descended to,not really......but we think it was that place where the rich man awaited his judgement when Christ returns...............it must have been unimaginably horrible because it is out of Gods Presence................these are all the things He willingly withstood(He could have committed His Spirit to God whenever He wanted but He chose to suffer ALL things for us until,it was finished

      Yeah Jerry,He is in Heaven & He never had to leave His Majesty in Heaven in the first place,but He did......because He loves us,,,,,

That is my thoughts and I do not believe our human minds could ever look down from the cross & see what Jesus saw from there......and because He is in Heaven,we can look forward to the same thing...........Glory to God,,,,,Giod Bless you Jerry!

                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik


  • 2

#6
Hall7

Hall7

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,457 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Keystone, Colorado

It must take a special person to suffer that way for a long 6 hours of torture without begging to stop. I think most of us would've given up even if the act was to save our own siblings. But He did it for the world, for people He didn't even know in person. That's how important our spirits are to Him.


  • 3

#7
19Duggarfan

19Duggarfan

    Veteran Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 930 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Upper Midwest
  • Interests:Bible, Christian History,
    Running, Football

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, that ye through His poverty might be rich.

II Corinthians 8:9

Yes, in more way than most Christians can think Christ was/is made poor that we might be may rich though Him.  What did the Word/Jesus Christ suffer more than any man.  When the Word became Flesh that is God came in the Flesh as Jesus Christ, for our sakes He that was equal to the Father put Himself under submission to the Father.  And much more than that He allowed Himself to suffer under the hour of the power of darkness.  But the worse thing of all that Jesus Christ suffer was becoming for each and every human, what He hated most, and never once knew sin.

 

When Jesus was taken by the Jewish leaders He told them:  When I was daily with you in the Temple, ye stretched forth no hands against Me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.  Luke 22:53  We see now that Jesus knew He was going to suffer greater than any man has ever suffer death, see Isaiah 52:14-53:12, so much that it was nearly impossible to tell He was a Man at His Crucifixion.  This was the hour of the power of darkness, when the devil thought he could defeat God not directly but indirectly by God's love for a sinful Human Race.  God fool the devil, because God knew how much satan hated God; so during the power of darkness the Lord Jesus Christ had all the hated of the devil and his angels thrown directly at Him.  Paul states how God fooled the devil during his power of darkness:  Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.  I Corinthians 2:8   For when Jesus rose three day later He triumphed over the enemy openly, Colossians 2:14-15.

 

But we also see that Jesus suffered the most by becoming sin for us.   John the Baptist announced Him this way, ...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the World.  John 1:29b   Christ knew no sin, but was made our sin or as Paul stated: For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness  of God in Him.  II Corinthians 5:21  Because Jesus loved us all so much even though He was sinless, He took our sins upon Himself, that we that without righteousness, might become His righteousness.

 

3)  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4)  And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

I Corinthians 15:3-4

When Jesus rose again He did not rise in His nature as God (for He has always been God), but He rose again as the Firstfruit of the Resurrection of the Flesh.  In Leviticus 23:4-14, we read of the Feast of Passover and Unleavened Bread, but during this feast on the day after the weekly Sabbath the Firstfruit was to be offered Leviticus 23:9-12 this would have been the day that Jesus rose from the dead..  So Paul wrote:

20)  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21)  For since by man came dead, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22)  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall be made alive.

23)  But every man in His own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His Coming.

I Corinthians 15:20-23

Since by man, Adam came dead, so by Man, Christ came the Resurrection, notice Paul states by Man came the Resurrection of the Dead.   So Paul with this in thought wrote a few verses later: And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

I Corinthians 15:28  Notice this verse does not state that the Son is not God, but rather that the Son shall subject Himself unto the Father, because yes Jesus is God, but for our richness He became the Only Begotten Son of God when He was Born into this world, and at His Resurrection, He became the Man that overcame death, but as Man He will subject Himself to the Father.   So yes Jesus is still God and with God the Father, but in a Fleshy Resurrection Body that because of His love for us, He will be pleased to subject Himself to the Father.  So before coming to the earth the Word was equal to God, but by becoming the Firstfruit Christ will now subject Himself to the Father.  So that we as sinful humans may have a Glorious Body to fashioned like unto, Philippian 3:20-21.

 

So Jesus Christ sacrifice everything, while we as believers become richer(est) because of His poverty.


  • 2

#8
OneLight

OneLight

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,620 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lebanon, New Hampshire
  • Interests:God, Family, Friends and Climbing

    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.
We are not just flesh and bone, but also have a spirit. This spirit lives on well after our flesh and bone turn back to dust. Jesus knew this. He also knew that we could not live a sinless life and became human to become the final sacrifice for sin for us. Since the life is in the blood, His blood covers our sins.

What did He sacrifice? Himself, everything as a human. While being human, Jesus felt everything we feel. There was not one factor in a male human life that He did not experience while living on this earth. His purpose, love. How much pain would you take for someone you did not personally know? Would you agree to be whipped to a point close to death, humiliated to a point that would crush you, be nailed to wood and displayed in the elements until you die? If you give thought to what He went through, you would find your answer. Trying to look at the "big picture" and ignore the specifics will not answer your question.
  • 2

#9
Littlelambseativy

Littlelambseativy

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,696 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:North of 40˚
  • Interests:Gardening, cooking, baking, making cards.

When Adam and Eve sinned God sacrificed an animal to cover them from their nakedness and cleanse them of their sin. Since then until the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross sheep and goats were used to cleanse man of sin. But not all the blood of all the unblemished sheep and goats could wash mankind of his sin. It took Jesus the sinless Son of God to give His life and blood for us. When He gave up His life on the cross and shed His blood that blood was the final sacrifice for all of mankind. When He rose from the grave He ascended to heaven and took the blood and placed it on the altar of heaven a sinless God died for a sinful world past and future and presented the sinless blood before a sinless God to show He had paid the price for us that is why He did not want Mary to touch Him until He had completed His task. We now only have to come to the Father in the name of Jesus and ask for forgiveness and do nothing because it is done, once for all. Jesus, God of very God gave up His position in heaven - where He was in the presence of untold beauty and perfection and the unimaginable love of the Father to live a humble life - so humble He had no place to lay His head. He could have called legions of angels to keep Him from the cross and mans' unimaginable cruelty leading to the cross but Jesus bore it all so that His sinless blood could cleanse us from our sin. When Jesus completed what God the Father required of Him, He ascend to heaven to sit at the Father's right hand. He is waiting now for the Father to say OK all who will accept You and Your sacrifice for their sin have done so and now the time has come to take them home to be with us. Is His work done? NO! But the time to accept Him and His free gift is soon coming to an end. Accept Him now! Life soon will be unbearable and the torment will cause man to curse Him - leading them to eternal damnation cast from God and love for eternity.


  • 1

#10
OakWood

OakWood

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Coast, Great Britain
  • Interests:Archery, painting, plants and animals, Medieval history

Imagine the pain that he went through having to lower himself to exist in a human body. He did not have to do that but he did it for us.


  • 2

#11
Parker1

Parker1

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:Growing in the knowledge of and having a relationship with Jesus the Christ; Football.

Same questions, same answers. Starting all over in a different place. You don't want answers, you want to disparage Jesus Christ. You are a troll.


  • 1

#12
ncn

ncn

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,692 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London
  • Interests:Books, classics, Italian/French
    Languages.
    Music. Classical, Sacred,Opera.
    Philosophy, Poetry.
    Social Anthropology.

Same questions, same answers. Starting all over in a different place. You don't want answers, you want to disparage Jesus Christ. You are a troll.

 

 

If you come across any post or thread from someone like this please just hit the report button. ,

Then bless them with His words and pray for them, the thread/posts will be deleted when one of the board servants arrive.

 

God Bless 

Nigel . (ncn Chat servent) 


  • 1

#13
OakWood

OakWood

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,800 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Coast, Great Britain
  • Interests:Archery, painting, plants and animals, Medieval history

Perhaps a good idea to close this thread now. What do you think?


  • 1

#14
jerryR34

jerryR34

    Veteran Member

  • Nonbeliever
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 712 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon, USA
Thanks all for the answers. I'm not trolling, just having a hard time making sense of this one. Thanks again, and as this seems to draw a lot of ire, I won't bring it up again.
  • 1

#15
Atwood

Atwood

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 360 posts
Jerry posted:
"Thanks all for the answers. I'm not trolling, just having a hard time making sense of this one. Thanks again, and as this seems to draw a lot of ire, I won't bring it up again."

I appreciated the question; the atonement of Christ, what He sacrificed is a great topic. I have no idea if you have asked the question over and over or not. Consider that He died for you (for your behalf and instead of you). Do you now understand His sacrifice? Some key words to consider are redemption, propitiation, and reconciliation. He bought us out and set us free (redemption). He satisfied the wrath of God and rendered God favorably disposed towards us (propitiation). He throughly other-ized us (reconciliation kat-ALL-agē), provided transformation 2 Corinthians 5.
  • 1

#16
jerryR34

jerryR34

    Veteran Member

  • Nonbeliever
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 712 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon, USA

Blessings Jerrry
     I figured you were going to start another thread to resume this conversation,I am glad  because I only posted you the little poem & then the topic changed (more specifically ) to this one & I did not get a chance to respond............Oh,I am glad the baby & the little finger made you smile :mgcheerful: ,you are very nice to talk with
     Please forgive me if I repeat what the others may have said -honestly,I have not read the posts,okay? Jerry ,it is so much more than what we see  through our mortal eyes & our logical minds........I have said it many ,many times that knowledge & intellect usually gets in the way of Wisdom.....most men(& women-lol) seem to think they know everything and will actually tell you their opinion as if that is the Word of God......there  are many Scriptures that tell us what Christ did,why He did it,how He did it,when He did it......We know the very few Words He spoke before ,during & after the actual crucifixion,the Holy Spirit reveals to us the Heart & Mind of Christ ....BUT,to actually look down from the cross,instead of looking up is not so easy and I can only offer you my opinion.....
       Jerry,as I mentioned(& of course you know) we are but mere mortals and Jesus is so much more,even in the physical,mortal body He is much more than a human and He suffered much more than any human could ever endure..............we now the whippings were more than the maximum by law & it is believed that anyone else could not have survived it,even just by the loss of Blood,there were the beatings,horrific torture & he was maimed beyond recognition...............we know all those gory atrocities he suffered but I know that is not your point,,,,it is the 6 hours & you feel there are people that have suffered worse for longer,right?Well,I do believe & I have often tried to imagine this...that the worst thing He endured was bearing the weight of the sins of the world.......the world Jerry!
        Have you ever read in the Psalms by David when he sinned against God with Bathsheba & had her husband killed?He slept with another mans wife & murdered him to cover up her pregnancy by himself.................Jerry,Davids anguish & pain is unbearable,he cries out to God because his bones hurt so badly,he is literally writhing in pain and agony....he is tormented by the guilt and shame....he has knowingly disobeyed , disrespected the One He loves passionately,faithfully,reverently(above anything or anyone) & he cannot live without His forgiveness,His love,His being near to his heart......................that is just one man  Jerry,,,,,,imagine Davids                that is what Jesus endured!!!!!! What human being could receive that unto themselves ,It does not stop there.....then He felt the absence of His Father,forsaken(outer darkness & void)....remember Davids anguish just thinking that God has turned His face fro Him......................He was forsaken & do we know where He descended to,not really......but we think it was that place where the rich man awaited his judgement when Christ returns...............it must have been unimaginably horrible because it is out of Gods Presence................these are all the things He willingly withstood(He could have committed His Spirit to God whenever He wanted but He chose to suffer ALL things for us until,it was finished
      Yeah Jerry,He is in Heaven & He never had to leave His Majesty in Heaven in the first place,but He did......because He loves us,,,,,
That is my thoughts and I do not believe our human minds could ever look down from the cross & see what Jesus saw from there......and because He is in Heaven,we can look forward to the same thing...........Glory to God,,,,,Giod Bless you Jerry!
                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik


As always, kwik, thanks for the kind tone of your posts.
  • 2

#17
a-seeker

a-seeker

    Veteran Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 706 posts
  • Gender:Male

Is the fact He lowered himself for a brief moment in His eternal existence to face the challenges we face on a daily basis worthy of being called a sacrifice? We face these daily, and if we succumb to the fact we are not pertect, and question it, we potentially face eternal punishment for a finite existence...Did Jesus really sacrifice anything?  I take umberage at being called a nonbeliever here...

 

Hi Jerry,

 

Is your main problem that Jesus did not suffer eternal (i.e. everlasting...no resurrection...no ascension) separation from God; and therefore it could not be a "real" sacrifice?  i.e. to say that I sacrificed, say, 2,000 dollars to my church, fully knowing that I would get it back by some other means, is not a real sacrifice....?

 

I have been reading through the N.T. quickly and have yet to find anywhere where it says that Christ sacrificed himself, or was sacrificed.  He is frequently called a sacrifice, which hearkens back to the OT sacrificial system.  Once it is said that he has been sacrificed, but that was as "the passover lamb".  Point?  I am not sure that topic of "what did Jesus sacrifice?" is one that arises from the N.T. but rather from atonement theories. The language of sacrifice simply speaks to the effects, i.e. atonement.

 

I do not think it proper to speak of the 2nd Person sacrificing anything--the 2nd P is immutable and therefore cannot suffer.

 

clb

 

P.S.  I am curious as to why you don't request your status be updated to believer (or at least seeker, like mine).


Edited by ConnorLiamBrown, 26 April 2014 - 12:52 PM.

  • 2

#18
ncn

ncn

    Royal Member

  • Servant
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,692 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London
  • Interests:Books, classics, Italian/French
    Languages.
    Music. Classical, Sacred,Opera.
    Philosophy, Poetry.
    Social Anthropology.

Hi Jerry,

 

P.S.  I am curious as to why you don't request your status be updated to believer (or at least seeker, like mine).

 

 

If any member has a question regarding their membership status, please contact a board servant .

Threads are not the place to discuss this or to bring membership status into question. 

 

Nigel  (ncn chat servant ) 


  • 2

#19
Willamina

Willamina

    Senior Member

  • Senior Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,202 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pacific Northwest USA
  • Interests:Birdwatching, Bible study



 
Hi Jerry,
 
Is your main problem that Jesus did not suffer eternal (i.e. everlasting...no resurrection...no ascension) separation from God; and therefore it could not be a "real" sacrifice?  i.e. to say that I sacrificed, say, 2,000 dollars to my church, fully knowing that I would get it back by some other means, is not a real sacrifice....?
 
I have been reading through the N.T. quickly and have yet to find anywhere where it says that Christ sacrificed himself, or was sacrificed.  He is frequently called a sacrifice, which hearkens back to the OT sacrificial system.  Once it is said that he has been sacrificed, but that was as "the passover lamb".  Point?  I am not sure that topic of "what did Jesus sacrifice?" is one that arises from the N.T. but rather from atonement theories. The language of sacrifice simply speaks to the effects, i.e. atonement.
 
I do not think it proper to speak of the 2nd Person sacrificing anything--the 2nd P is immutable and therefore cannot suffer.
 
clb
 
.
Perfect God and perfect man--2nd Person. Therefore Jesus also,, that he might sanctify the people with His own blood, SUFFERED outside the gate. [On the cross] Hebrews 13:12 NKJV

1Peter 3:18 For Christ also SUFFERED once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit.
4:1a Therefore since Christ SUFFERED for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind---

Luke 22:44 And being in AGONY, He prayed more earnestly. Then his sweat became like great drops of blood falling to the ground. [This is cause from extremely high blood pressure causing cappillaries to burst--my friend watched her dad go through this.]

My guess is that you have never suffered much yourself. If you had ever been in great pain, you would know that even a moment FEELS like an eternity, even though it is just a moment in light of eternity. Such pain can do damage to the heart and the rest of the body as it did to my own husband.

Gal: 1:4 and our Lord Jesus Christ Who GAVE HIMSELF for our sins that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father--
Eph. 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and GIVEN HIMSELF for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling aroma.

Christ bent His own will to that of the Father and he did so in agony over the decision. He then suffered ridicule, rejection, cat-o-9 tails scourging--a whip with glass and sharp stones tied to 9 tails at the ends of the whip that laid open the back--39 strikes would have made hamburger of it. Then he was paraded through the streets, half dead, towing a log on his back. He would be nailed to that log. He would suffocate as he would have to raise Himself to gasp for breath. It was the worse torture known to man.
He did this all on our behalf, to ratify a new covenant of grace by His blood, as well as for remission of our sins. Luke 22:20, Matt. 26:28

It is hard to grasp why He would so lower Himself and suffer so much for me, even out of love. I am nothing worth His dieing and torture.
  • 1

#20
bopeep1909

bopeep1909

    Royal Member

  • Royal Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,768 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Pacific NW
  • Interests:Reading,Knitting,Jigsaw Puzzles.and I love to bake.

I thought he originally said "Why did Christ sacrifice".Hmmm....either he changed it or I read it wrong.


  • 1




0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Worthy Christian Forums - Christian Message Boards - 1999-2014 part of the Worthy Network