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America & the other Super Powers in God`s Word?

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#1
Marilyn C

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I have read a lot of comments in this section & think that many people are well informed & know a lot of God`s word. The subject that I would like to discuss was taught to me in the `60`s and I think it would be good for others to examine it. For me this subject has helped me fill the gap leading up to the tribulation - an area I see that is not so well known. I will take this a step at a time so others can comment or ask questions.

 

 

1. HISTORICAL OR CONTEMPORARY.  (Dan. 7)

 

I have realised over the years that many people see this chapter as historical and the same as Dan. 2. I can see why they think this but to me Dan. 2 & Dan. 7 are quite different.

 

Daniel 2 (as many know) is the Overview of God`s Timeline dealing with the Nations.

1. Babylon. 2. Medes & Persians. 3. Greece. 4. Rome. 5. Final World Ruler. They all follow each other except the last which comes after an interval of many centuries.

 

Daniel 7 I believe (& was taught) is Contemporary of our time. It involves Super Powers, large power blocs but not individual world rulers. They are contemporary to each other and are at the time of the end when God deals with them.

 

 

a) Future - `These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.`  (Dan. 7: 17)

Daniel was already in Babylon when he received this vision so it was for a future time.

 

b) Operating at the same time - Each of these great powers are operating at the same time, for the final beast `devours & tramples` the others. (Dan. 7: 24)

 

c) Each Powerful - Each of these great powers are powerful (Like a Lion, Bear...) but they are not World Rulers.

 

 

Had you ever thought that Dan. 7 maybe for our time?

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2
gdemoss

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I have been down many a rabbit trail full of desire for knowledge of coming events and even tp the point where I came to believe the whole bible both historic as well as contemporary to our day.

At the end of the day it didn't do me any good but to give me something to obsess over. It did not do anything to enhance the quality of my or anyone elses lives or closeness to God.

What I do know is that God has a plan and he will reveal that plan to whom he wants for his purpose. It has been revealed to me that he wants me to focus on living right in the presence of others for the purpose of conviction as did Noah in his day according to the scriptures.

Have fun in your studies of escotology friend.

#3
Fez

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If God wanted to write a history book He would have.

 

Everything in the bible points to Jesus, not to superpowers like China or Russia.

 

We tend to complicate things.



#4
Marilyn C

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I have been down many a rabbit trail full of desire for knowledge of coming events and even tp the point where I came to believe the whole bible both historic as well as contemporary to our day.

At the end of the day it didn't do me any good but to give me something to obsess over. It did not do anything to enhance the quality of my or anyone elses lives or closeness to God.

What I do know is that God has a plan and he will reveal that plan to whom he wants for his purpose. It has been revealed to me that he wants me to focus on living right in the presence of others for the purpose of conviction as did Noah in his day according to the scriptures.
 

Have fun in your studies of escotology friend.

 

Thank you for your reply, gdemoss,

 

I totally agree that we need to `focus on living right in the presence of others.` You have God`s heart to reach out & help others in their journey of life knowing full well from your (& my) experience the difference with God or our own way. (I read your notes) So if you would see I have discipling first in my  interest, though really it is my heart`s desire. I mentor, encourage, guide, laugh, cry with those I am helping & we know that they also help us.

 

Thus said I do find knowing what God is doing now in the nations, specifically from God`s word has helped me over the years, as it has proven true. It also helps those I reach out to mostly unchurched people who see what is happening in the world and can easily see what God is saying in His word about it.

 

There is so much speculation & rabbit holes as you so rightly said. Thus I will keep writing to explain what I was taught & you can correct or comment as you see fit. 


Edited by Marilyn C, 28 April 2014 - 01:45 AM.


#5
Marilyn C

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Hi fez,

 

I agree that the Bible is a revelation of Jesus Christ, His character & His Purposes. That is why I am posting this information concerning Christ`s dealing with the nations of today. When people realise the contemporary view of Daniel ch. 7 then they do not need to speculate (as I see so many doing) but just watch it unfold a step at a time.



#6
Marilyn C

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1. HISTORICAL OR CONTEMPORARY?

 

2. ALIGNMENT OF SUPER POWERS.

 

We can take for granted the Super Powers that have emerged over the past century. But they have each arisen in God`s pre-ordained order & sphere of political power. These Power Blocs were accurately predicted by the prophets Ezekiel, Isaiah and Zechariah centuries ago.

 

Daniel Ch. 7 combines the predictions of the other prophets and shows us 4 distinct Confederacies. he states emphatically that they shall arise in the specific time-slot just prior to the coming of the Lord in power & glory.

 

They emerge in a precise chronological order as Super Powers & will continue contemporaneously (at the same time) until their final destruction at the great battle of Armageddon.

 

Daniel depicts them graphically and emblematically in language that was readily understood by the people of his day. Nations were identified and recognised by their individual & consistent emblem. This was of course, not just restricted to that day. The use of distinguishing insignia has been perpetuated subsequently in the shields & heraldic devices of medieval knights, & currently in national banners & flags.

 

Since these Super Powers operate during the terminal generation (Matt. 24: 34) we must asses the evidential descriptions in relation to the contemporary situation. The chronological order of appearance is of significant relevance.

 

 

 

(Next I will look at the 4 Beasts of Daniel 7)



#7
1x1is1

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The Bible is a history book........HIStory!!!!   :lightbulb2:



#8
OneLight

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Marilyn, remember to present your statements in a way of discussion and not teaching.  Sometimes, there is a fine line between the two, as in your presentation here.  Worthy, being a ministry, only allow those who are part of Worthy Ministries to hold teaching threads.  We do know, understand and accept that everyone teaches in one form or another when they post their beliefs, but not in a way of a teacher/student outline.

 

Just a heads up, Sister.



#9
Marilyn C

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Thank you OneLight,

 

I was aware of that point and am trying to change my approach. One of the difficulties is that I have been a school teacher for many years. Also I have seen many others write much on end times and present it in great detail. That is why I asked questions giving room for comments, correction & discussion. However I will continue to try & present this material with room for discussion. If you can see how I can improve on this I would appreciate your help.



#10
Marilyn C

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The Bible is a history book........HIStory!!!!   :lightbulb2:

 

I believe that too 1x1is1. History is His Story, God the father revealing Christ`s Character & His Purposes for the Body of Christ, Israel & the Nations.

Good point.



#11
OneLight

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Thank you OneLight,

 

I was aware of that point and am trying to change my approach. One of the difficulties is that I have been a school teacher for many years. Also I have seen many others write much on end times and present it in great detail. That is why I asked questions giving room for comments, correction & discussion. However I will continue to try & present this material with room for discussion. If you can see how I can improve on this I would appreciate your help.

 

I am sure any advice I give you, you are already aware of, but I will suggest one anyway.   Write what is on your heart.  Walk away before posting it.  Return with a fresh mind and read what you wrote as if you are reading it for the very first time with no preconceived idea what the writer meant and see what it tells you about the subject, how it was presented, and what you derive from the words.  This is a tool I was taught from one of my college professors, one that has been more valuable then the degree I earned.

 

God Bless!



#12
Marilyn C

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Thank you OneLight,

 

That is most helpful & I will certainly follow that up. Having read your profile I am also desiring to focus on our Lord. Thus as I chat (not teach) about this subject it is with the desire for us to see what Christ is doing not only in the Body of Christ, or Israel but the nations too. So as discussion develops I`m sure I`ll learn much from others to help me grow in knowing Him more.

 

Once again. thank you for taking the time to guide me in this important matter.



#13
Marilyn C

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Hi gdemoss,

 

I would like to apologise for having come over as teachery(!!!) Teacher/student manner. So if you would bear with me on this subject & discuss with me I will be able to learn to share & relate & not just `dump,` as it were a lot of info.



#14
Marilyn C

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Hi gdemoss,

 

Thank you for following this topic with me. I certainly hope we do not get into any `rabbit holes.` I do not want to waste your time or mine.

 

So, have you ever wondered whether God has written in His word concerning the specific super powers we see today?

 

The world calls them `The Big 4,` or `The Quartet of Power.`

Have you heard of those expressions?

Do you know who they are?



#15
gdemoss

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Hi gdemoss,

Thank you for following this topic with me. I certainly hope we do not get into any `rabbit holes.` I do not want to waste your time or mine.

So, have you ever wondered whether God has written in His word concerning the specific super powers we see today?

The world calls them `The Big 4,` or `The Quartet of Power.`
Have you heard of those expressions?
Do you know who they are?


Hi Marilyn. As I have grown in my walk with Christ I have groaned within and tossed too and fro in search of what God has said about our day.

What I have found is that God reveals what he wants to whom he wants and the rest he leaves blind. Faithfulness being the key to knowledge and revelation. And that faithfulness being to his indwelling Word that comes to those who hunger and thirst after righteousness.

I do believe that everything about Gods timeline and plan are hidden in plain sight but only given to whom he wills to see and understand. I have not personally achieved that kind of status in my faith but continue to grow and learn.

It must have been hard for men like Abraham to trust the process. I sure haven't had the success they have had when they were tried. I have found myself more like Peter weeping over my failures then going off and acting the part until Christ comes again to restore me.

Glad to see your desire to grow and learn.

#16
Marilyn C

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Hi gdemoss,

 

Thank you for your reply. Yes I believe like you that the Lord reveals to some but I do believe that the Holy Spirit desires to lead us all into truth of Christ, His character & His purposes, for the Body of Christ, Israel & the nations. That is why I am persevering with this topic so that people can at least examine if God has written about these super powers of our day.

 

Hope you can stay with me so we can examine these Super Powers & if God writes about them.



#17
Atwood

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Had you ever thought that Dan. 7 maybe for our time?


I think that Australians are friendly to America and I appreciate that and you interest in America.
The parallels between Dan 7 and Dan 2 are so strong, that I don't see how one could escape making them parallel.
The Church was a mystery and is not revealed clearly in the OT. It was future as late as Mat 16 (I will build).
Daniel 9 presents Israel's future in 70 sevens, best taken to mean 70 year-weeks. The 69th week obviously ended at the cross. The Messiah was cut off. Then there is a gap before the 70th week, but no indication it should last 2000 years.

It appears to me that from the POV of the OT, the Church-Age is not revealed.
I don't find the USA anywhere in the Bible, nor Australia! And I think that the history of prophecy interpretation is full of newspaper exegesis, where persons have jumped to the conclusion that their current time was predicted in prophecy, only for observers to find 100 years later that the expected sequence of events did not happen. Didn't people go on about how when the 10th member joined the European Common Market that would mean the 10 king prophecy, corresponding to the toes of the image in Dan 2 and the 4th beast of Dan 7, was being fulfilled? Yet more than 10 were added.

Do you find it significant that there is no America in the prophecies about the Tribulation?

#18
Marilyn C

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Hi Atwood,

 

Thank you for sharing & your kind words. Yes I believe the Church, the Body of Christ was a mystery. However I am talking about the nations. Then I see you say - `It appears to me that from the POV (?) of the OT, the Church-Age is not revealed.

 

I can think of a few - Israel to be brought back a 3rd time to their land.(1948)      Ps. 83 - The 6-day war. (1967)     Ez. 38 & 39. The Russian war against Israel. (20??)

 

I also agree that there has & is much speculation & people jumping to conclusions. I however have believed this `contemporary view ` of Dan. 7 for over 60 years & it has only been more & more confirmed as I see these super powers develop & consolidate in the activities, I believe that God`s word says.

 

 

The 10 toes/kings did prove wrong,  ay.

 

You also said - `Do you find it significant that there is no America in the prophecies about the Tribulation?` Oh but I do believe that America & the other super powers are in the tribulation. One thing we need to remember is that when God is talking about a nation He refers to its origin.  eg. the combatants of the 6-day war & Ps. 83. We have contemporary names but they had ancient names. 



#19
Marilyn C

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Hi gdemoss,

 

You said, `I believe that everything about God`s timeline & plan are hidden in plain sight....` What a great thought. I do hope that as I share & we discuss that the Holy Spirit will confirm with you or challenge me to my beliefs.

 

So who are the `Big 4,` or the `Quartet of Power,` as the world calls them? They are 1. Britain & USA. 2. Russia. 3 E.U. 4 UN.  (No surprises there.) Some people may think China but it is called a `Middle Power.` Now the UN is actually not in the same class as the others as they control it. So we have 3 Super Powers recognised, in the world today.

 

I thought we may look at each one separately, its history & then see what the contemporary view of Daniel 7 is. Then there will be room to comment etc. I will discuss the first super power, Britain & USA  tomorrow. (Aussie time.)


Edited by Marilyn C, 03 May 2014 - 04:54 AM.


#20
Marilyn C

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Hi gdemoss,

 

I`ll  just summarise the `contemporary view,` reasons.

 

The Lord says to Daniel (ch. 7) that 4 kingdoms will arise in time (7: 17). because Daniel is already in Babylon it has to be after that. Then we read that these first 3 kingdoms are finally controlled by the last one. (7: 7 & 19), thus they exist at the same time.

 

Then the Lord deals with this last kingdom & brings in His own kingdom. (7: 22) Thus this is the time of the end of the Gentiles ruling the world. The first 3 kingdoms however, are given an extension & allowed to go into the Lord`s kingdom. (Millennium) (7: 12)

 

These different points show (I believe) that these kingdoms are all strong powers at the end of this age. We are shown quite a bit of detail of these kingdoms or great powers in Daniel Ch. 7. They emerge in the earth, one at a time and then operate all at the same time.

 

So let`s look at who the world recognises as great powers & see if there is any evidence in relation to what God says in Dan. 7.






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