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Identifying the One New Man

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#1
goldenjade

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One New Man is much like the two sticks (Judea & Israel) that God has put together as one.  The Lord speaks about the Bride being those of Jew & Gentile. It is neither male or female,(on Earth as it is in Heaven---no male or female in heaven) but a representation of the Body (Church) of Christ. The Lord also says that he had other sheep which are not of this fold; these too, I must bring.... Jesus returns to gather the one new man in the air with a sound of the trump(et). This Bride is adorned, ready, and watching.  These are appointed and anointed to walk with patience and to run this race. As the marked children of the Most High, the Holy One who calls to these; they hear and do the will of the Father.

 

The term "New Man" displays the vision of his(God's) heart in man, doing a "New" thing. God is creating a "New" thing that confirms the old (his original plan). His creation will in the future join the two major groups of peoples to make "One New Man," stating "Man" that has authority through the Spirit. So let us walk in this given authority and grace in Jesus Christ. Let us be ready, watching that we not fall away; knowing the acts and things of his heart. Let our hearts be weighed saying, "Righteousness of Christ...Holiness to God."

 

Your Sister In Christ,

Eileen

 

 


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#2
HeavensDove1

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I'm a Gentile believer in Messiah Yeshua and I remember in my studies that the Tabernacle of  David had no separation between Jew & Gentile, they worshipped together. Thus, when we answer our call and make the G-d of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our G-d, in the Name of Yeshua, the Holy Spirit comes and Tabernacles in us. I believe that G-d sees all who are "saved" as Israel because the very word  Israel means: He has been saved by G-d.

 

So, when we say we are "saved" we are saying what Paul said, that we are part of the Commonwealth of Israel, fellow citizens with the Jews and members of the household of G-d, having been built on the foundation of the apostles (New covenant) and prophets (Old covenant) , Yeshua Messiah Himself being the chief cornerstone.  Paul said -For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation. Ephesians 2:14. Paul also said- that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel. Ephesians 3:6.

 

If we (Jew & Gentile) would only recognize what the Adversary has been busy doing for more than 2000 years in keeping us apart, we would saturate the world with the gospel of the Kingdom of G-d!  Blessed be He!


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#3
Qnts2

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I'm a Gentile believer in Messiah Yeshua and I remember in my studies that the Tabernacle of  David had no separation between Jew & Gentile, they worshipped together. Thus, when we answer our call and make the G-d of our fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our G-d, in the Name of Yeshua, the Holy Spirit comes and Tabernacles in us. I believe that G-d sees all who are "saved" as Israel because the very word  Israel means: He has been saved by G-d.

 

So, when we say we are "saved" we are saying what Paul said, that we are part of the Commonwealth of Israel, fellow citizens with the Jews and members of the household of G-d, having been built on the foundation of the apostles (New covenant) and prophets (Old covenant) , Yeshua Messiah Himself being the chief cornerstone.  Paul said -For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation. Ephesians 2:14. Paul also said- that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel. Ephesians 3:6.

 

If we (Jew & Gentile) would only recognize what the Adversary has been busy doing for more than 2000 years in keeping us apart, we would saturate the world with the gospel of the Kingdom of G-d!  Blessed be He!

 

The original meaning of 'Israel', is sometimes debated, but the most common definition is 'God rules'. In the name 'Israel', El is a standard abbreviation for Elochim, which refers to God. The first part of the name is likely from Sar, which means to rule.    

 

The standard root word for saved would be 'shua'. Jesus Hebrew name, 'Yeshua' means salvation. El Yeshuati would mean God is my salvation, and El Yeshuatenu means God is our salvation. If you look at those two words, the suffix added to yeshua, alters the pronoun in the sentence.  The pronoun suffix for his would be 'o'.  So God is his Salvation would be El Yeshuato.

 

Paul actually said that Gentiles who believe are brought near to the commonwealth of Israel. It does not say Gentiles become part of Israel. Israel was the new name assigned to Jacob. Children of Israel, abbreviated Israel, are descendents of the 12 sons of Jacob/Israel. Those Gentiles who come to believe they are now Israel have a scriptural inconsistency. In scripture, Israel is promised blessings and curses based on obedience and disobedience. Israel is praised for being faithful, but more often criticized for their unfaithfullness. Gentiles must sort thru these various  verses, and usually cherry pick the positive statements and apply it to themselves, while stating that the curses and negative statements belong to 'natural/physical Israel'. Their basis for picking which verses apply to them and which apply to physical members of Israel is the desirability of the statement.


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#4
HeavensDove1

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Hi Q

 

Paul did say that the Gentiles were bought near only because they were far off, having no hope and without G-d in the world. So does "near" mean, close enough but we cannot enter?

 

Further, what did Paul mean when he said " you are no longer strangers and foreigners but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of G-d. (Eph. 2:19)  We Gentiles would be citizens of what, if not the Commonwealth of Israel, according to the text.

 

And finally,  what did he mean when he said "in other ages this mystery was not known to the sons of men as it has been revealed by the Holy Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Messiah through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. He went on to say that he (Paul), should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Messiah and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in G-d who created all things through Messiah Yeshua.

 

This is in accordance with Torah, Numbers 15:13-16.  Also, Isaiah 56: 3a- Do not let the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord speak saying, "The Lord has utterly separated me from His people. Verses 6 & 7, goes on to say, " Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him and to love the Name of the Lord, to be his servants- everyone who keeps from defiling Shabbat and hold fast My covenant- even them I will bring to my holy mountain and make them joyful in my house of prayer. 

 

Paul says in Romans 10:12- "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek ( non Jew or Gentile) for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon him. 


Edited by HeavensDove1, 26 June 2014 - 07:11 AM.

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#5
Qnts2

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Hi Q

 

Paul did say that the Gentiles were bought near only because they were far off, having no hope and without G-d in the world. So does "near" mean, close enough but we cannot enter?

 

Further, what did Paul mean when he said " you are no longer strangers and foreigners but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of G-d. (Eph. 2:19)  We Gentiles would be citizens of what, if not the Commonwealth of Israel, according to the text.

 

And finally,  what did he mean when he said "in other ages this mystery was not known to the sons of men as it has been revealed by the Holy Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs of the same body and partakers of His promise in Messiah through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. He went on to say that he (Paul), should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Messiah and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in G-d who created all things through Messiah Yeshua.

 

This is in accordance with Torah, Numbers 15:13-16.  Also, Isaiah 56: 3a- Do not let the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord speak saying, "The Lord has utterly separated me from His people. Verses 6 & 7, goes on to say, " Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him and to love the Name of the Lord, to be his servants- everyone who keeps from defining Shabbat and hold fast My covenant- even them I will bring to my holy mountain and make them joyful in my house of prayer. 

 

Paul says in Romans 10:12- "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek ( non Jew or Gentile) for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon him. 

 

Let's start with the question, enter into what?

 

Israel is a physical people who descended from Jacob. Today, most do not believe Jesus to be the Messiah and Lord. That means most children of Israel have not entered into the Messiah. They are still descendents of Jacob/children of Israel. So as scripture says, Israel has not entered in, but the Gentiles have received the promise that Israel sought after. That line of reasoning differentiates Israel from those who are a part of the assembly of the believers in Jesus.  

 

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

 

In terms of salvation, all are saved the same way, so it does not matter whether a person is Jewish or Gentile. There is no distinction when it comes to the way to be saved. Only thru faith in Jesus can a person be saved. But, in scripture, Jews are still Jews and Spanish people are still Spanish, and Italians are still Italians, men are still men, and women are still women, even though in terms of salvation, there is no distinction. So when scripture says, there is no Jew, and no Gentile, no male and no female, it is talking about any differences in the way each person is saved, and the way God views each person. We are all equal. We were all equally sinners far from God, and when we accept Jesus the same way, we are all equally saved, and blessed and loved.  So, Gentiles are equal heirs when it comes to salvation and the New birth with Jews who have received salvation and the new birth. We are all part of the body of Messiah/Christ. Most of the children of Israel today, are not a part of the body of Messiah.  


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#6
HeavensDove1

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Q, I agree with just about all you said but it doesn't take away the fact that our G-d, the G-d of our fathers, sees all His holy, set apart people as "Israel".  Paul was teaching Torah to the Gentiles, when he said in Romans 9, starting with verse 6b- For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham, but "In Issac your seed shall be called".

 

He goes on to say in verse 8: "That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of G-d; but the children of the promise are counted as seed. Now, I know that this scripture is used primarily for replacement theology but I don't believe in that. I believe this is spiritual, for lack of a better word, that the "promise" was the covenant of Abraham,  to make him the father of many nations.  G-d  said "all Israel will be saved." That's Jew and Gentile.  He doesn't change.  Blessed be He!


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#7
JohnD

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Ephesians 2 (NASB95)

1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
12
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near;
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
19
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.


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#8
Qnts2

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Q, I agree with just about all you said but it doesn't take away the fact that our G-d, the G-d of our fathers, sees all His holy, set apart people as "Israel".  Paul was teaching Torah to the Gentiles, when he said in Romans 9, starting with verse 6b- For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham, but "In Issac your seed shall be called".

 

He goes on to say in verse 8: "That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of G-d; but the children of the promise are counted as seed. Now, I know that this scripture is used primarily for replacement theology but I don't believe in that. I believe this is spiritual, for lack of a better word, that the "promise" was the covenant of Abraham,  to make him the father of many nations.  G-d  said "all Israel will be saved." That's Jew and Gentile.  He doesn't change.  Blessed be He!

 

 

Sorry, but we will disagree. God does not see all of those who are set apart as Israel. Israel is a physical linage. Scripture to me is very very clear that Gentiles were to be included as Gods holy people with the Messiah, without being Israel. The NT makes it very clear the Gentiles do not become Israel, as Israel, the physical people are mostly broken off, and in the future are return.

 

What you are proposing is a form of replacement theology. At the time of the Apostles, Rome had a very large Jewish population, and the Roman church started as a Jewish congregation. The Jewish believers were the leaders and teachers of the church and then the Gentiles began to accept the Lord, joining the Roman church. In about 49 ce. Emperor Claudius kicked all Jewish people out of Rome. That was non-believing Jews and believing Jews. The Gentile believers found themselves without the existing leadership so had stepped up to assume the leadership positions. But during that time, developed some incorrect understandings of their positions in relationship to the Jewish people/Israel. Aquila and Priscilla were Jewish believers who had been expelled from Rome. In 54 ce, Claudius died, and Jewish people were allowed to return to Rome. When the Jewish believers returned, a conflict arose between the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers. The book of Romans is primarily dealing with this conflict, alternately addressing Jewish believers and Gentile believers. Sections explain to the Gentiles, who Israel is, etc. The section you are quoting is stating that not all of Israel believes on Jesus. It does not say anywhere in those verses that Gentiles become Israel, or that the Church is Israel. It is talking about the fact that some Jews/Israel are saved, and some are not saved, simply said, linage does not guarantee salvation. Just because a Jewish person is a physical descendent of Abraham does not mean they will be saved, just as Esau, a physical descendent of Abraham did not receive some of the promises, but Isaac received the land and the Messianic promises. Israel is clearly made up of saved and unsaved Jewish people/physical children of Jacob. But the church is only those who are saved, both Jews who are saved and Gentiles who are saved.        


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#9
JohnD

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    I am unable or unwilling to police each posting to answer **every subsequent point** brought up by opponents.

    So sometimes they will appear to have the "last word."

    But notice the difference is I have cited and quoted scriptures as opposed to the mere opinion / belief of my opponent.

Sorry, Q, but you are using double talk to mask your inability to support your mere opinion with scripture.

 

A physical born Gentile cannot become a physical Jew (even if converting to Judaism).

 

This is not about becoming physically Jewish but spiritually Jewish.

 

Therefore it cannot be replacement theology.

 

 

Ezekiel 46:16-18 (KJV)
16 Thus saith the Lord GOD; If the prince give a gift unto any of his sons, the inheritance thereof shall be his sons’; it shall be their possession by inheritance.
17 But if he give a gift of his inheritance to one of his servants, then it shall be his to the year of liberty; after it shall return to the prince: but his inheritance shall be his sons’ for them.
18 Moreover the prince shall not take of the people’s inheritance by oppression, to thrust them out of their possession; but he shall give his sons inheritance out of his own possession: that my people be not scattered every man from his possession.

 

Being physically Jewish, having an inheritance in Eretz Israel, being the elect / chosen people of THIS life still applies to the Jewish born individuals (regardless of their faith in anything).

 

Being a child of God, for faith in the Prince of God** (Jesus) is having an inheritance from heaven (not Eretz Israel) our election is in eternity and we are chosen for all eternity to come.

 

** which is what Israel means (Yish Sarar Elohiym "he is the Prince of God")


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#10
kwikphilly

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     Praise the Lord! Your own avatar speaks volumes!!!!! 'Tis the Body of Christ!!!!!! All,anyone,everyone, who is in Christ Jesus........simple,this is His Bride .....                       Thank You Jesus!                                                                                   With love-in Christ ,Kwik     


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#11
HeavensDove1

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"Q",  I am not proposing a form of replacement theology nor am I saying that the Church is Israel. I'm stating that Paul preached on inclusion of Gentiles i.e."grafted in".  Yes, we are not Jews in the flesh but by the "Spirit of Promise" or the "Spirit of G-d, were we circumcised in our hearts to know that Torah is spiritual (Romans 7:4).

 

Paul also said  " For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly,  nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from G-d. (Romans 2:28-29). I must thank John DB, he reminded me of this scripture!


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#12
HeavensDove1

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John DB, I thank you because what you are saying reminds me ou reminded me of Romans 2:28-29. 


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#13
JohnD

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    So sometimes they will appear to have the "last word."

    But notice the difference is I have cited and quoted scriptures as opposed to the mere opinion / belief of my opponent.

I also want to point out that it is a double blessing for the Jewish born believer in Jesus to be both physically and spiritually Jewish.

 

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

 

Romans 11:24 (KJV)
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

There is no replacement here at all. Only the adoption of sons (children).


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#14
Qnts2

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"Q",  I am not proposing a form of replacement theology nor am I saying that the Church is Israel. I'm stating that Paul preached on inclusion of Gentiles i.e."grafted in".  Yes, we are not Jews in the flesh but by the "Spirit of Promise" or the "Spirit of G-d, were we circumcised in our hearts to know that Torah is spiritual (Romans 7:4).

 

Paul also said  " For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly,  nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from G-d. (Romans 2:28-29). I must thank John DB, he reminded me of this scripture!

 

Actually, you are proposing replacement theology. You are saying that the church is Israel, if you say all who are saved are now members of Israel.

 

Yes, the Gentiles are grafted in, but not into Israel. The grafted in parable comes from Romans 11.

 

As I said, Romans is speaking alternately to Jews and Gentiles, in an attempt of reconciliation. Paul spends time explaining to the Gentiles, the place of the children of Israel/Jews in light of the New Covenant. 

 

Romans 11:13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,    

 

So, in Romans 11, Paul is speaking to Gentiles concerning their place and the place of the Jewish people.

 

Romans 11:17  But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree

 

We know from what Paul said previously that most of Israel have not accepted Jesus. The branches which are broken off are Israel. Gentiles are the wild branches. If Israel is branches, then Israel is not the tree. If Gentiles were being grafted into Israel, Gentiles would have been grafted into branches which are broken off. Instead Gentiles have been grafted into the tree, alongside some Israel branches. Both Israel branches and Gentile branches are partakers of the root. The root is not Israel.

 

So, if Israel is the branches and not the root, what is the root? The root is Jesus, or the promises of the Messiah. Gentiles are grafted into Jesus. The Israel branches which remain on the tree are grafted into the Messiah Jesus. Sadly, most of Israel is broken off at this time.     

 

Romans 11:12  do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

 

Gods plan for the Messiah has always included the Gentiles. It was never a plan for Israel only. One of the NT mysteries more fully explained is that God always planned to include the Gentiles in His Messianic promises. 

 

The One New Man is only made up of people who are born again. Both Jews and Gentiles. But since this New Man is only those who are born again, is excludes both Israel and Gentiles who are not born again. It is something entirely new. A newly formed group of people who have a new nature. It might be said at this time that there are three groups of people; Jews, Gentiles and the Church (assembly) of God. This is expressed in the following verse.  

 

1 Cor 10:32 Give no offense either to Jews or to Gentiles or to the church of God;

 

As far as the following verse, again, Romans is dealing with a conflict which has arisen between Jewish believers and Gentile believers, and a misunderstanding of the Gentile believers concerning the Jewish people.

 

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly,  nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from G-d. (Romans 2:28-29).

 

This verse does not say the Gentiles are now Jews. It is talking to Gentiles about the status of the Jewish people. It is explaining the a Jewish person who has had their hearts circumcised are 'true Jews'. There are Jews who are not saved (true Jews). It does not say a Gentile becomes a Jew. It is talking about the difference between an unsaved Jew and a saved Jew. 


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#15
Qnts2

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I also want to point out that it is a double blessing for the Jewish born believer in Jesus to be both physically and spiritually Jewish.

 

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

 

Romans 11:24 (KJV)
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

There is no replacement here at all. Only the adoption of sons (children).

 

I find it horrendous when people say the Jews are twice blessed.

 

Honestly, there are too many Gentile Christians who have a fascination with the Jewish people. I can't tell you how many times I have heard Gentiles say they wish they were Jews because the Jews are twice blessed. That does so much damage, to both Jews and Gentiles. It is unbiblical. It indicates to Jewish people that Gentiles are jealous of the Jews, while scripture say what should occur is the exact opposite, Jews are to be jealous of what Gentiles who have the Messiah, have received. It tells the Jewish people they have something better then born again Gentiles, when scripure says the born again Gentiles have received the better covenant and blessings from God.  

 

The other thing it does is because Gentiles who say Jews are 'twice blessed', it means that Jews have received double blessings from God and Gentiles can never get these double blessings. Envy leads to jealousy and jealousy leads to a dislike and hatred of those who are viewed as better or more blessed. I wish I had never met some people who think the Jews are twice blessed and now hate the Jewish people out of their jealousy. And all because Gentiles do not truly understand who they really are in Christ or what they really have received. Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ are children of God, not children of Israel. One does not have to be Israel to be a child of God.  The same status and the same unbelievably wonderful blessing.

 

Paul, a Jew, says the following about being a Jew, and an educated Jew:

 

Philippians 3:4  Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

 

Paul understood that Jesus was the so much greater then anything about being Jewish, he considered that all loss, to be caste aside, to apprehend Jesus. Being Jewish is nothing, compared to the wonderous excellency of Jesus. Twice blessed? No. There is only one blessing that truly counts and that is Jesus.  


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#16
HeavensDove1

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"Q", 

 

I don't mean to offend, but I was not given this revelation from a man, but by the Holy Spirit of the Living G-d. The Holy Spirit  teaches us all truth.  Our G-d sees all His saved born-again children, Jews and Gentiles as "Israel", thus  the Spirit of G-d led me to this definition for this purpose: " He, has been saved by G-d."  Not Jew and not Gentile, but "He", that's anyone who is called by G-d and claim Yeshua as Messiah.

 

 "Unity" within the "Body of Messiah", true unity, has not happened before now, for over 2000yrs. The "adversary" has taken advantage of our veiled eyes and used all forms of division i.e.,racism, mistrust and intellectual knowledge of the Word, to keep the "Body" divided.  G-d is unifying His "Body" as we speak and if He feels that calling us all Israel will unify us, we being brothers and sisters as in a family with Him as our Father, then so be it. The focus here is UNITY.

 

Further, the teachings of the Rebbe Schneerson, in effect said: "The Genitles eyes will be opened and they will begin to understand and learn Torah and the Feasts.  He also said they will begin to obey and observe it and in his opinion, they won't know why, but he goes on to say the Jews will ask, why are you doing this? Then the Jews seeing this and not wanting to be outdone, will return to the G-d of their fathers.  Isn't this what Paul was saying provoking them to jealousy?  

 

 

 

 

I repeat, I have no ambition to replace or be Jewish and I don't claim to be of the 12 tribes.  I have been called according to G-d's purpose, to do His will, to fulfill His requirements, to do justice, to love kindness and to walk humbly with my G-d. (Micah 6:8)


Edited by HeavensDove1, 01 July 2014 - 01:35 PM.

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#17
Qnts2

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"Q", 

 

I don't mean to offend, but I was not given this revelation from a man, but by the Holy Spirit of the Living G-d. The Holy Spirit  teaches us all truth.  Our G-d sees all His saved born-again children, Jews and Gentiles as "Israel", thus  the Spirit of G-d led me to this definition for this purpose: " He, has been saved by G-d."  Not Jew and not Gentile, but "He", that's anyone who is called by G-d and claim Yeshua as Messiah.

 

 "Unity" within the "Body of Messiah", true unity, has not happened before now, for over 2000yrs. The "adversary" has taken advantage of our veiled eyes and used all forms of division i.e.,racism, mistrust and intellectual knowledge of the Word, to keep the "Body" divided.  G-d is unifying His "Body" as we speak and if He feels that calling us all Israel will unify us, we being brothers and sisters as in a family with Him as our Father, then so be it. The focus here is UNITY.

 

Further, the teachings of the Rebbe Schneerson, in effect said: "The Genitles eyes will be opened and they will begin to understand and learn Torah and the Feasts.  He also said they will begin to obey and observe it and in his opinion, they won't know why, but he goes on to say the Jews will ask, why are you doing this? Then the Jews seeing this and not wanting to be outdone, will return to the G-d of their fathers.  Isn't this what Paul was saying provoking them to jealousy?  

 

 

 

 

I repeat, I have no ambition to replace or be Jewish and I don't claim to be of the 12 tribes.  I have been called according to G-d's purpose, to do His will, to fulfill His requirements, to do justice, to love kindness and to walk humbly with my G-d. (Micah 6:8)

 

Hopefully, you will understand, but when you tell me your revelation, I have to judge it, as we are to judge all teachings and prophesies. I do not find what you believe to be your revelation is scriptural. And, it opposes revelations I have received.

 

I would not accept Rebbe Schneersons revelation. Rebbe Schneerson had his own 'revelation', and dedicated his life to preparing the Jewish people so the Messiah would come. He did not believe Jesus to be the Messiah. As a Chassidic leader, he had tremendous influence over his followers who viewed him akin to a special Godly person, to be obeyed. He had his followers out on the streets, training Jewish people to do what is called 'laying Tefillin', to get the Messiah to come. After years of that, Schneerson decided that Gentiles needed to be taught his version of the Noachide laws, and when the Gentiles agreed to follow the Noachide laws, the Messiah would come. Gentiles who were 'Noachides' were to push the Jewish people to be obedient to the Mosaic law, so the Messiah would come. And Schneerson would train Jews and Gentiles to try to get Jewish believers in Jesus to renounce Jesus, so the Messiah would come.

 

The following quotes are from the Noachide site:

 

http://www.noahide.com/rebbe.htm

 

  1. Will Moshiach come entirely by our efforts on pulling individual Jews out of golus, or through our work in transforming the golus into geulah?
  1. [W]ith [regard to] the Seven Mitzvos: The time has come to prepare the world for Moshiach. This includes making it a "settled place" through spreading the Seven Mitzvos.

 

  1. Why has Moshiach not yet been revealed, despite official announcements that he should already have appeared years ago?
  1. It is decades after these proclamations, and nevertheless, Moshiach still has not come. I have searched and searched for an explanation for this, and the only answer I've found is the following. In previous generations, since haNassi hu hakol ("the Nassi is everything") it was possible to rely on the Nassi's efforts. However, after so long, when even the Previous Rebbe's proclamation has passed and Moshiach still hasn't come, the only possibility is that every single Jew must be involved in bringing the redemption.... This is also the other reason for the stress on the Seven Mitzvos. Since the world has changed, and Moshiach has nevertheless not come, every individual must do everything possible to hasten his coming.

Rebbe Schneerson taught that those Gentiles who accepted the Noachide law, should also be led to renounce Jesus. This make Schneerson dangerous from a Christian view. He believed that his followers should teach both Jews and Gentiles to renounce Jesus. Not a good person to take on as a teacher.


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#18
HeavensDove1

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"Q"

 

Hopefully, you will understand, but when you tell me your revelation, I have to judge it, as we are to judge all teachings and prophesies. I do not find what you believe to be your revelation is scriptural. And, it opposes revelations I have received.

 

I understand what you are saying and I take no offense of you testing the "spirits".  Yeshua is my L-rd and Savior.  I could only confess that fact by the "Holy Spirit." (1Cor. 12:3).

 

I stand firm on the revelation given to me by G-d, that He sees us, who He has called and are saved, as "Israel".  He gave me the definition of  "Israel". I shared it with you and you then offered another definition, stating that there was some debate about the meaning.   

 

 

 

 

I would not accept Rebbe Schneersons revelation. Rebbe Schneerson had his own 'revelation', and dedicated his life to preparing the Jewish people so the Messiah would come. He did not believe Jesus to be the Messiah. As a Chassidic leader, he had tremendous influence over his followers who viewed him akin to a special Godly person, to be obeyed. He had his followers out on the streets, training Jewish people to do what is called 'laying Tefillin', to get the Messiah to come. After years of that, Schneerson decided that Gentiles needed to be taught his version of the Noachide laws, and when the Gentiles agreed to follow the Noachide laws, the Messiah would come. Gentiles who were 'Noachides' were to push the Jewish people to be obedient to the Mosaic law, so the Messiah would come. And Schneerson would train Jews and Gentiles to try to get Jewish believers in Jesus to renounce Jesus, so the Messiah would come.

 

To address the issue of Rebbe, I won't at this writing.  :blush2:

 

Unity is the focus!

 

Shabbat Shalom!


Edited by HeavensDove1, 03 July 2014 - 12:11 PM.

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#19
JohnD

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    I am unable or unwilling to police each posting to answer **every subsequent point** brought up by opponents.

    So sometimes they will appear to have the "last word."

    But notice the difference is I have cited and quoted scriptures as opposed to the mere opinion / belief of my opponent.

 

I also want to point out that it is a double blessing for the Jewish born believer in Jesus to be both physically and spiritually Jewish.

 

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

 

Romans 11:24 (KJV)
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

There is no replacement here at all. Only the adoption of sons (children).

 

I find it horrendous when people say the Jews are twice blessed.

 

I cannot speak for others, but I was only going by the scriptures.

 

How you receive the scriptures is after all your own affair: (ordeal or blessing).


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#20
JohnD

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  • Interests:Footnote:

    I am unable or unwilling to police each posting to answer **every subsequent point** brought up by opponents.

    So sometimes they will appear to have the "last word."

    But notice the difference is I have cited and quoted scriptures as opposed to the mere opinion / belief of my opponent.

"My blessing (or my gift) is a blessing (gift) and a curse..."

 

--Adrian Monk

 

"I know, I know. We are Your chosen people. But, once in a while, can't You choose someone else?"

 

--Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof


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