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Differentiating Biblical Truth, Personal Convictions, & Personal P

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#1
GoldenEagle

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Blessings Golden Eagle...

     I agree completely with everything you said but I believe most importantly (is this another category ?)by the Power of the Holy Spirit as we walk & pray in spirit.......I know without praying in spirit for the Heart & Mind of Christ I do not want to make any decisions ,would this fall under Biblical Truth as God reveals Himself to us in His Word ,would it fall under personal convictions as it is the Holy Spirit that convicts our hearts.....in spirit,our personal desires(preferences) are to do the Will of God?

     I do not just want to assume these things but I would hope that it goes without saying,but let me ask so that it is clear......

                                                                                                                                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

Biblical truth is revealed by God through His Word (the Bible). Prayer is important in seeking God's will for our lives. The Holy Spirit guides us in all we do if we just listen to Him sister! Amen. :thumbsup:

Biblical truth is that the Holy Spirit guides the hearts and minds of Believers.

Personal conviction would be that I need to spend 1 hour a day alone praying with and to God. This is a good thing. But bot everyone has this conviction nor should I try to impose my conviction on others as Biblical truth.

Personal preferences would be for example the color of the carpet at church. I've heard many times people fighting over wether it should be red, brown, or another color. This is where people fight a lot with each other.

Do you see what I'm saying sister?

God bless,

GE


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#2
GoldenEagle

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I think some of this really hinges on what you mean by unity in the Church and the nature of true Christian unity.

Okay brother how do you define "Unity in the Church" and "the nature of true Christian Unity"?

To me it just seems we as Christians fight over our own pet doctrines (calvinism/armenianism, end time doctrine, gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc.), personal convictions (don't drink alcohol, don't dance, etc.), and personal preferences (have your quiet time in the morning). 

God bless,

GE


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#3
GoldenEagle

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John 17 (KJV) {1-26}

So what are you trying to say brother? What does this passage say to you?

God bless,

GE


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#4
GoldenEagle

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As Christians, we should look to make decisions both in the natural, as well as the spiritual based on God and His Word.
And always looking to grow in the same.

I am prayerfully longing for the day, when the Body of Christ can find itself here. As a family, we regularly beseech God for the same:

I honestly believe it is possible for the same Holy Spirit God to teach all Christians the same things as we grow and mature in Christ and His Truth found in the Word.

Personal convictions and personal preferences clear up in time as we grow in Christ, starting with the basics of God's Word:

And not remaining in those basics as time moves on:

Nor following after men when they themselves speak Truth, but follow after the One True God they are representing:

And be wary of the perverse speaking wolves, who look to draw men unto themselves:

Christians are Christ ambassadors, look to represent Him, and share His Truth with a lost and dying world! :)

Amen to your entire post! And these sentences in bold stood out to me. :thumbsup:

God bless,

GE


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#5
GoldenEagle

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Agree with this. And I love the quotes in your sig. :)

Hypothetical question for you.  Say I disagreed with your #1 that we should completely abstain from alcohol, that drinking any alcohol is a sin.  To me, that would be a biblical truth.  To you, it's just my conviction/preference.  How do you handle that sort of disagreement?

 

 

 

That is a good question sister. In any disagreement I think ideally we should offer the other person horizontal grace - meaning we should be loving, kind, gentle, peace-makers, and self-controlled in the spirit of Gal. 5:22-23.

 

God has given us vertical grace (salvation, justification, sanctification) and we should in turn pass it along to others. Realizing that everyone who Believers is being conformed to the mind of Christ and is His work in progress.
 

 

But let's talk about the specifics here. So let's say you believe that we should completely abstain from alcohol and that drinking alcohol is sin.
 

So… since we're talking about Biblical truth we obviously turn to the Bible. See next post.

God bless,

GE


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#6
GoldenEagle

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First, what does the Bible say about alcohol?

 

Here's some things I found the Bible says about alcohol...

 

It is unwise to drink a lot of wine as it leads to mockery and brawling.

 

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

 

In praising God the Psalmist said the following:  

 

Psalm 104:14-15
You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart.

 

 

Notice in opposition to the fruits of the spirit mentioned in the previous post (Gal 5:22-23) are the fruits of the flesh including drunkenness and orgies.  These are evidence of our old nature before Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

Romans 13:13
Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.

 

 

We as Believers are not to be drunk or partake in debauchery (excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures; intemperance) …

 

Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

 

 

Deacons must not be addicted to a lot of wine.

1 Timothy 3:8

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.

 

 

It seems like drinking a little wine is good for the stomach and frequent ailments. I believe Willamina mentioned this.

 

1 Timothy 5:23
No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

 

 

Second, does the Bible say drinking alcohol is sin?
 

As to the second question I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where it says drinking alcohol is a sin. Being drunk and participating in orgies is a sign of the work of the flesh. But drinking alcohol is never described as a sin per say in Scripture. Unless of course I'm missing something. Perhaps you can point to the Bliblical passages saying as such? ;)

 

You are loved! :thumbsup:

 

God bless,

GE


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#7
shiloh357

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I think some of this really hinges on what you mean by unity in the Church and the nature of true Christian unity.

Okay brother how do you define "Unity in the Church" and "the nature of true Christian Unity"?

To me it just seems we as Christians fight over our own pet doctrines (calvinism/armenianism, end time doctrine, gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc.), personal convictions (don't drink alcohol, don't dance, etc.), and personal preferences (have your quiet time in the morning). 

God bless,

GE

 

Christian unity as it is presented in the Bible pertains to unity around the truth.

 

The problem for us is that we live in a postmodern culture/society that puts emotions or feelings ahead of the truth.   We have, even in the church, a relativism where what is true for you is your truth and truth is defined by feelings "How can it be wrong when it feels so right?"

 

Christian unity is centered upon the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the inerrancy/authority of Scripture, Person and nature of God, salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.   These core doctrines comprise the foundation of true Christian unity.

 

What I see happening in the Church all across America is a surrendering these core principles and doctrines of the faith.  I see it even on this board.  "Unity" is expected at the expense of sound doctrine.

 

I see more and more people who don't believe Jesus was God, who think the Bible is true only when it needs to be true.  I see more and more that we have allowed Hollywood and science to hi-jack the interpretation of Scripture.   Today, biblical truth is what each person wants it to be.   And in this mire of contradictory values and beliefs we are supposed to have "unity."

 

As to values decision like how much alcohol to consume or not..   You know why we even ask that question, because we have lowered our view of God.   Think of it like this, there are probably things that you could do that are completely harmless but because you value your family and marriage, you don't even touch those things, don't even go near them.  Your love for your family drives your decisions and you won't go near anything or any one that even has the remotest chance of causing you to compromise on that.

 

It should be the same with God.   We are constantly asking, "how close can I get to the edge without falling off?"  "How close to the fire can I get before I get burned?"   The decision to drink or not to drink should come from that inner passion to protect at all costs, my relationship with God.   It is not about rules, but about the relationship and what parts of that relationship with the Lord are so unimportant that am I willing to sacrifice them in order to be respected by my peers. 


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#8
GoldenEagle

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I think our culture we live in influences largely or convictions of spiritual truth and often there is confusion between church doctrine, cultural norms and Jesus foundational basic teachings.

 

What is the difference between church doctrine and Jesus's basic foundational teachings?

God bless,

GE


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#9
kwikphilly

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Blessings Golden Eagle

    Oh my Brother in Christ,what can I say? You always take the time to help anyone understand what you share with us ,we only need ask....thank you Brother(post #10)   once again,I cannot agree with you more.Praise & Glory to God!

                                                                                                                       With love in Christ,Kwik


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#10
Sheniy

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Agree with this. And I love the quotes in your sig. :)
Hypothetical question for you.  Say I disagreed with your #1 that we should completely abstain from alcohol, that drinking any alcohol is a sin.  To me, that would be a biblical truth.  To you, it's just my conviction/preference.  How do you handle that sort of disagreement?

 
 
That is a good question sister. In any disagreement I think ideally we should offer the other person horizontal grace - meaning we should be loving, kind, gentle, peace-makers, and self-controlled in the spirit of Gal. 5:22-23.
 
God has given us vertical grace (salvation, justification, sanctification) and we should in turn pass it along to others. Realizing that everyone who Believers is being conformed to the mind of Christ and is His work in progress.
 
 
But let's talk about the specifics here. So let's say you believe that we should completely abstain from alcohol and that drinking alcohol is sin.
 
So… since we're talking about Biblical truth we obviously turn to the Bible. See next post.

God bless,

GE

 

Thank you for replying so graciously to someone who may disagree with you.  We need more of that in the Church.  :)

 

I don't disagree with you, actually.  I attended a church growing up that served wine for Communion, then later I attended a bible college that required complete abstinence from alcohol.  A few of my roommates got really offended when I admitted to drinking a wine cooler over the summer.  While technically I did accidentally break a school rule (I wasn't aware it extended into school breaks), I didn't do anything really wrong.  But that's not how they saw it.  To me, it was a just my preference or conviction, to them, it was a biblical truth.  To them, I was "backsliding".

 

My aunt and uncle also abstain from alcohol, but I believe that for them it is a preference.  My uncle had an addiction to alcohol that nearly destroyed their marriage, so now they don't touch the stuff.  Those in the family who do occasionally drink respect that decision and don't drink around them, and my aunt and uncle don't look down on us judgmentally.  That's unity in the family.  On this subject, at least.  (now I just need to get my mom and her sister to stop fighting about the rapture! lol)

 

The reason for my hypothetical question is that I see this problem happening quite often in the Church.  One person's conviction  goes against another person's idea of biblical truth.  Maybe both sides have good biblical "logic" to back up their beliefs, but they can't seem to agree.  It's not necessarily the disagreement that divides them, though.  It's the prideful "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude behind much division in the Church.  God knows I'm guilty of this quite often, and I pray He continually reveals these areas to me.  I want to be a better witness to the rest of the world.

 

 

We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord

We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord

And I pray that all unity may one day be restored

They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love

They will know we are Christians by our love

 

 

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.  - Gandhi

 

 

"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me." - John 17:21


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#11
GoldenEagle

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A. Scriptural doctrine: Drinking alcohol can be medicinal as when Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach. We use it in caugh medicine as well as in flavorings like vanilla. The Jewish culture did not prohibit alcohol.
Christians are forbidden to get drunk, especially since such drunken orgies and reveling were such a part of the Greco-Roman cultures as it has been a part of ours. Christians are to be set apart from the world around us.

B. Conviction: But it is definitely wrong for alcoholics to drink, it is not good for diabetics, and it is not a good example for teen agers or young believers who might use it as an excuse for excessive drinking. So out of love it is best not to drink alcohol under circumstances that cause others to stumble. It comes under the all things are lawful but not all things are expedient category. However, no one should be condemned for doing so when their hearts don't condemn them. They answer to God as do we, so we have no right to stand in judgement of each other. That is what makes it a personal conviction.

C. Preference: Most of us have no desire to get drunk or even to have a drink very often. Some churches use alcoholic wine in communion but mine prefers not to do so.
I sometimes use some alcohol to control caughing when I am extremely sick.


A. Doctrine: Women should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law.
B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women.
C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

I pretty much agree with you sister. :thumbsup:

Some small changes in bold if I may to the modesty section:
 

A. Doctrine: People should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law. People are responsible for their thoughts and actions as individuals.
B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women. Men may wear modest clothing created for men.
C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

 

 

I guess for some reason when we talk about modesty often people want to talk about women and forget about the men in the equation. What do you think sister? ;)

God bless,

GE


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#12
GoldenEagle

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@ Shiloh

I guess the focus of this discussion originated with the discussion of absolute truth in our church small group. I think this is exactly what you’ve mentioned brother. :thumbsup:

I agree the basics of Christian unity is focused on Jesus Christ, the inerrancy/authority of Scripture, the nature of God, the salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.

What I was trying to get at was thinking in terms of evaluating whatever we’re discussing understanding Biblical truth and separating it from our own personal convictions or preferences.  Particularly not imposing our own convictions or preferences on others.

As to the specifics of alcohol consumption…  It was just an example that I thought many people could agree upon. The reason why we ask the question is because some would try to impose their personal conviction (take Willamina’s example of alcoholics not drinking… probably a good idea) or personal preference (see Sheniy’s example at the college and her roommates in post #19) of others that they not drink. And somehow spin that off as Biblical truth. Yet nowhere in the Bible are we told not to consume alcohol. We are told not to partake in orgies and get drunk.

I do agree that whatever we do we should honor God. I think that’s the gist of “protecting at all costs, my relationship with God” you mentioned.

Question: How does drinking alcohol say in moderation (we do so on my wife’s birthday just the two of us) sacrifice my relationship with God?  


I think this is probably a good perspective:
 

Two extremes must be avoided as we decide what is acceptable behavior and what is not.

 

Legalism says we make a list of rules and conform to the rules. Then, we attempt to impose our personal convictions as normative for others.

 

Libertinism (spelling? lol) says, “Since I’m free in Christ and the Bible forbids none of these things specifically, then I’ll feel free to do any and/or all of them!”

 

From my perspective the Indisputables are:

1. The Bible is the Word of God.
2. Jesus is 100% God and 100% man (the hypostatic union).
3. Jesus was virgin born.
4. Jesus died a substitutionary death on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin.
5. The bodily resurrection guaranteed that Christ’s mission was fulfilled.
6. Forgiveness of sin and salvation come solely by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
7. God establishes an eternal relationship with those who personally receive Him as Savior and Lord.

 

Source
 

 

 

Thanks for the well thought out post. Challenging as always. You are loved. God bless brother. :thumbsup:

 

In Christ,

GE


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#13
GoldenEagle

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Blessings Golden Eagle

    Oh my Brother in Christ,what can I say? You always take the time to help anyone understand what you share with us ,we only need ask....thank you Brother(post #10)   once again,I cannot agree with you more.Praise & Glory to God!

                                                                                                                       With love in Christ,Kwik

 

If anything is good it is Christ in us. This may surprise you (or it may not) but I'm not a very patient person at times lol. This (differentiating Biblical truth from personal conviction or preference) is something that I've been trying to sort through. I figured Worthy was a good place to get feedback and grow together. You are loved sister. :thumbsup:

 

In Christ,

GE


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#14
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I think our culture we live in influences largely or convictions of spiritual truth and often there is confusion between church doctrine, cultural norms and Jesus foundational basic teachings.

What is the difference between church doctrine and Jesus's basic foundational teachings?

God bless,
GE
To kids that are brought up in churches with laws like no dancing because it promotes promiscuity is a good example. Because they are taught it they might think it is a biblical truth or commandment when it is in fact a denominational difference .

Edited by Chris., 28 May 2014 - 04:19 PM.

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#15
shiloh357

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Question: How does drinking alcohol say in moderation (we do so on my wife’s birthday just the two of us) sacrifice my relationship with God?  

 

I am not saying that it does.  I am saying that the way we answer such questions need to be from an inward motivation to protect our relationship with God at all costs, rather than asking from a motivation of wanting see how much we can get away with or from a slavish obedience to a set of rules.

 

 


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#16
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@ Sheniy

I think alcohol is a pretty easy topic to address. Now, if we were to approach end times doctrine (you mentioned relatives disagreeing on rapture lol), predestination/free will (Calvinism/Armenianism), abortion, homosexuality, or other harder issues this way (looking at Biblical truth, personal convictions, and personal preference) perhaps there would be more dialogue and less in-fighting in the Church. Yes there is absolute truth. But in some areas there may be good Biblical backing to more than one view. Why can’t we respect one another and agree to disagree on the non-essentials?

There’s also this prevailing attitude among some Christians that they can’t be friends with someone who disagrees with them.  I used to think this way. If I couldn’t agree 100% with people perhaps I didn’t need to be around them. But is that really the answer?

 

Of interest a friend called me a heretic and a false teacher recently for disagreeing with his interpretation of Scripture on tithing. Particularly when we discussed specific passages starting from the OT to the NT together and the Biblical evidence for his position (all Christians must tithe or give 10% of their income or be cursed) was rather weak.  He defriended me on Facebook and said he didn’t know if we could hang out together anymore. We’re having coffee this week to talk things over further and sort it all out.

 

Sometimes I wonder how much we’re interested in winning the argument and sacrificing the relationship. I wonder am I treating people as God’s work in progress or simply thumping them with the Bible?

 

Sorry I’m rambling… lol

 

Question: When you drank the alcohol (not knowing it was breaking the rules) were you an enrolled student at the Bible college (for the summer)? What happened?

 

I do agree that pride can be an issue. I pray God continually prunes me of my pride and helps me reach others for Christ in love and grace. I too want to be a better witness to the rest of the world. :thumbsup:

I think you get the point of the thread and it’s encouraging. You are loved sister.   ;)

In Christ,

GE


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#17
GoldenEagle

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I think our culture we live in influences largely or convictions of spiritual truth and often there is confusion between church doctrine, cultural norms and Jesus foundational basic teachings.

What is the difference between church doctrine and Jesus's basic foundational teachings?

God bless,
GE
To kids that are brought up in churches with laws like no dancing because it promotes promiscuity is a good example. Because they are taught it they might think it is a biblical truth or commandment when it is in fact a denominational difference .

 

 

I see what you say. Okay let's take dancing then... Break it down for us.

What is the Biblical truth? What is the personal conviction? What the personal preference?

 

A. Biblical truth:
B. Personal Conviction:
C. Personal Preference:

God bless,

GE


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#18
other one

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getting drunk is not what gets us in trouble.....   it's what we do when we are drunk that is the problem......

 

Noah got drunk and fell asleep naked and God didn't seem to say anything to him about that.....   it was the actions of his son that was condemned.


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#19
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A. Scriptural doctrine: Drinking alcohol can be medicinal as when Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach. We use it in caugh medicine as well as in flavorings like vanilla. The Jewish culture did not prohibit alcohol.
Christians are forbidden to get drunk, especially since such drunken orgies and reveling were such a part of the Greco-Roman cultures as it has been a part of ours. Christians are to be set apart from the world around us.

B. Conviction: But it is definitely wrong for alcoholics to drink, it is not good for diabetics, and it is not a good example for teen agers or young believers who might use it as an excuse for excessive drinking. So out of love it is best not to drink alcohol under circumstances that cause others to stumble. It comes under the all things are lawful but not all things are expedient category. However, no one should be condemned for doing so when their hearts don't condemn them. They answer to God as do we, so we have no right to stand in judgement of each other. That is what makes it a personal conviction.

C. Preference: Most of us have no desire to get drunk or even to have a drink very often. Some churches use alcoholic wine in communion but mine prefers not to do so.
I sometimes use some alcohol to control caughing when I am extremely sick.


A. Doctrine: Women should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law.
B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women.
C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

I pretty much agree with you sister. :thumbsup:

Some small changes in bold if I may to the modesty section:
 

A. Doctrine: People should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law. People are responsible for their thoughts and actions as individuals.
B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women. Men may wear modest clothing created for men.
C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

 

 

I guess for some reason when we talk about modesty often people want to talk about women and forget about the men in the equation. What do you think sister? ;)

God bless,

GE

 

A. Doctrine:        1 Tim.2:9 only says that " the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing."   

 

It says nothing about men.

b.conviction:  Perhaps pride and vanity are the things that needs to be dealt with.  If a man is proud of his body, he should cover it up.  Women who are proud of their hair should cover it, and neither should dress in costly clothing which also lends to pride and vanity.  Moderation may be the key word;   we should desire to not call attention to ourselves.

c preference:   However I do find that I am embarrassed when I see a man in a speedo.  Even fig leaves are better than that.   :blush2:


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A. Scriptural doctrine: Drinking alcohol can be medicinal as when Paul advised Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach. We use it in caugh medicine as well as in flavorings like vanilla. The Jewish culture did not prohibit alcohol.
Christians are forbidden to get drunk, especially since such drunken orgies and reveling were such a part of the Greco-Roman cultures as it has been a part of ours. Christians are to be set apart from the world around us.

B. Conviction: But it is definitely wrong for alcoholics to drink, it is not good for diabetics, and it is not a good example for teen agers or young believers who might use it as an excuse for excessive drinking. So out of love it is best not to drink alcohol under circumstances that cause others to stumble. It comes under the all things are lawful but not all things are expedient category. However, no one should be condemned for doing so when their hearts don't condemn them. They answer to God as do we, so we have no right to stand in judgement of each other. That is what makes it a personal conviction.

C. Preference: Most of us have no desire to get drunk or even to have a drink very often. Some churches use alcoholic wine in communion but mine prefers not to do so.
I sometimes use some alcohol to control caughing when I am extremely sick.


A. Doctrine: Women should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law.
B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women.
C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

I pretty much agree with you sister. :thumbsup:

Some small changes in bold if I may to the modesty section:
 

A. Doctrine: People should dress modestly. Christians do not answer to Jewish civil or ceremonial law. People are responsible for their thoughts and actions as individuals.
B. Conviction: Women may wear modest clothing created for women. Men may wear modest clothing created for men.
C. Preference: I prefer to wear loose fitting clothing: blouses that are not revealing and loose fitting slacks or jeans.

 

 

I guess for some reason when we talk about modesty often people want to talk about women and forget about the men in the equation. What do you think sister? ;)

God bless,

GE

 

A. Doctrine:        1 Tim.2:9 only says that " the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing."   

 

It says nothing about men.

b.conviction:  Perhaps pride and vanity are the things that needs to be dealt with.  If a man is proud of his body, he should cover it up.  Women who are proud of their hair should cover it, and neither should dress in costly clothing which also lends to pride and vanity.  Moderation may be the key word;   we should desire to not call attention to ourselves.

c preference:   However I do find that I am embarrassed when I see a man in a speedo.  Even fig leaves are better than that.   :blush2:

 

 

The most alluring dress I have ever seen was an emerald green, full length pure silk dress that was split up to just over the knee....    no cleavage showing but it just flowed with her body when she walked......   i get goose bumps just thinking about it......   it was much more erotic than if she was wearing nothing...


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