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Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel to the Gentiles?

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#1
Inchrist1

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Hello to all my brothers and sisters in Christ!

* Was the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus and the 12 preached only for the Circumcision party? It seems to me that what Peter preached at Pentecost, in Acts 2 only applies to the Lost Sheep Of Israel. From what I can tell it is a continuation of what Jesus commanded in Matthew 10, the only difference is the crucifixion, and Resurrection.

"These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town. (Matthew 10:5-15 ESV)"

* I don't see any Gentiles in this verse. And I'm May be wrong here but aren't the " Ones who are far off" the Jews who were scattered?

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (James 1:1 KJV)"


* The 12 received there message from Jesus while he was still on earth. Paul received his message from Jesus in Heaven. Why was is necessary for Jesus to proclaim the Gospel to Paul, if the 12 could have have done it? And why is Paul's message so different?

"For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace, which was given me by the working of his power. To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory. (Ephesians 3:1-13 ESV)"

(Peter didn't preach this. He was reveling to the Lost Sheep, that Christ was the one who the prophet Isaiah spoke of.)

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:1-8 ESV)"

"On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. (Galatians 2:7-10 ESV)"

Are these two different Gospels?




* The 12 had to obey and endure to the end.

"But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:13, 14 ESV)"

Some of the Jewish Believers, were confused with Paul's message because he was saying that circumcision was not necessary. Peter didn't even understand.

" But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. (Acts 15:1-6 ESV)"

This shows me that the message Paul received, was not known to the 12. Peter and the 12 weren't even aloud to associate with Gentiles, the law prevented them. When Jesus commanded peter to "Rise kill and Eat" Peter told him no.

"And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common."

"And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. (Acts 10:13-15, 28 ESV)"

* After Acts, why is most of the New Testament focussing on Paul's message to the Gentiles? Is it because the Jews didn't except the Messiah and because of that they were cut off for a time, and the Gentiles were Grafted in? ( I'm not talking about the 12).

"What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:30-33 ESV)"


"So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! (Romans 11:11-33 ESV)"

Why would the Jews be jealous if the Gentiles had the same Gospel? Remember the Gospel means " the good news".

This is something that has been weighing on my heart for a while, I haven't been able to share it with anyone because I was afraid i would be labeled a heretic. To me this puts to rest the controversy of James- "faith plus works", and Paul's-" faith without works". Please correct me if I'm wrong, i only ask that you use scripture to back it up. And I'm not trying to teach others to agree with this , I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.


Thanks,

Inchrist1

Edited by Inchrist1, 25 May 2014 - 07:26 PM.


#2
FresnoJoe

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Welcome~!

 

~

 

:thumbsup:

 

Beloved, It Is Simply

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

Jesus

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6



#3
Inchrist1

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Thanks brother!

John 14:6 is what it's all about.

And if I'm in error please correct me.

Edited by Inchrist1, 25 May 2014 - 08:12 PM.


#4
OakWood

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Welcome to Worthy.



#5
Inchrist1

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FresnoJoe,

If I rejected your friend request i didn't mean to. Not sure how to except it.

#6
FresnoJoe

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FresnoJoe,

If I rejected your friend request i didn't mean to. Not sure how to except it.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Beloved, I'm Never Offended

 

I'll Send Another



#7
Inchrist1

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Thanks brother

#8
ncn

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Welcome to Worthy



#9
Inchrist1

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Thanks ncn and oak wood!

#10
Willamina

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Welcome.
Jesus ministered to gentiles as well. The woman of Matt. 15:25-28 who begged for the crumbs from the Master's table and the centurian great faith of Matt. 8:5-13 are 2 examples. However, He was sent first to the lost sheep of Israel. Gentiles get the leftovers.

To me, the parable of the wedding feast of Matt. 22 explains it. It starts by saying the kingdom of heaven is like: the Jews are like those who were invited to the wedding feast but either refused to come or killed those who delivered the invitations, so Jesus said they were not worthy; so they went searching for any who would come. But they had to wear wedding garments, which I see as those washed in the blood of the Lamb. For many are called but few are chosen.
Even Paul would go first to the Jews and preached in the synagogs, and then to the gentiles after the Jews rejected the message. Acts 13:45-47.
The great commission of Mark 15-16 speaks of going into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE. It is not confined to Jews. Matt. 28:19 says make disciples of ALL NATIONS. Mat. 24:14., Luke 24:47, Acts 1:8,
The prophecy of Simeon in Luke 2:30-32 repeats for My eyes have seen Your salvation which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to bring revelation to [enlighten] the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel. NKJV. Psalms 22:27, Isaiah 66:19, Mal. 1:11,
Even Peter preached to the gentiles at the house of Cornelius. Acts 15:7. God declaired the Gentiles as "kosher".
The Jews inherit the physical kingdom of Israel. But the kingdom of heaven is offered to all who would call upon the Name of the Lord.
Hope this helps,
Willa

#11
Inchrist1

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Welcome.
Jesus ministered to gentiles as well. The woman of Matt. 15:25-28 who begged for the crumbs from the Master's table and the centurian great faith of Matt. 8:5-13 are 2 examples. However, He was sent first to the lost sheep of Israel. Gentiles get the leftovers.
To me, the parable of the wedding feast of Matt. 22 explains it. It starts by saying the kingdom of heaven is like: the Jews are like those who were invited to the wedding feast but either refused to come or killed those who delivered the invitations, so Jesus said they were not worthy; so they went searching for any who would come. But they had to wear wedding garments, which I see as those washed in the blood of the Lamb. For many are called but few are chosen.
Even Paul would go first to the Jews and preached in the synagogs, and then to the gentiles after the Jews rejected the message. Acts 13:45-47.
The great commission of Mark 15-16 speaks of going into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE. It is not confined to Jews. Matt. 28:19 says make disciples of ALL NATIONS. Mat. 24:14., Luke 24:47, Acts 1:8,
The prophecy of Simeon in Luke 2:30-32 repeats for My eyes have seen Your salvation which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to bring revelation to [enlighten] the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel. NKJV. Psalms 22:27, Isaiah 66:19, Mal. 1:11,
Even Peter preached to the gentiles at the house of Cornelius. Acts 15:7. God declaired the Gentiles as "kosher".
The Jews inherit the physical kingdom of Israel. But the kingdom of heaven is offered to all who would call upon the Name of the Lord.
Hope this helps,
Willa


Hi Willa,

I appreciate your willingness to comment on this thread, thank you.

"He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” And he answered, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.” Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly. (Matthew 15:24-28 ESV)"

I agree with what you said about this verse, but couldn't it also be that the only reason Jesus blessed her is because she blessed Isreal?

The great commission of Mark 15-16 speaks of going into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERY CREATURE. It is not confined to Jews. Matt. 28:19 says make disciples of ALL NATIONS. Mat. 24:14., Luke 24:47, Acts 1:8,
The prophecy of Simeon in Luke 2:30-32 repeats for My eyes have seen Your salvation which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to bring revelation to [enlighten] the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel. NKJV. Psalms 22:27, Isaiah 66:19, Mal. 1:11,

I can't find in the New Testament where the 12 even left Isreal, i see where Paul went to the Nations but not the 12. I think it was because Israel never repented., because if they would have then Christ would have established his earthly kingdom during that time.

"Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago. (Acts 3:19-21 ESV)"

Also wasn't the Mystery that was hidden in God, but revealed to Paul, about Gentiles being fellow heirs first revealed to Paul from Jesus?

Pleas don't take any of this personal beloved, i'm just trying to figure some things out.

Thanks,

Inchrist

#12
Qnts2

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Hello to all my brothers and sisters in Christ!

* Was the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus and the 12 preached only for the Circumcision party? It seems to me that what Peter preached at Pentecost, in Acts 2 only applies to the Lost Sheep Of Israel. From what I can tell it is a continuation of what Jesus commanded in Matthew 10, the only difference is the crucifixion, and Resurrection.

"These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town. (Matthew 10:5-15 ESV)"

* I don't see any Gentiles in this verse. And I'm May be wrong here but aren't the " Ones who are far off" the Jews who were scattered?

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (James 1:1 KJV)"


* The 12 received there message from Jesus while he was still on earth. Paul received his message from Jesus in Heaven. Why was is necessary for Jesus to proclaim the Gospel to Paul, if the 12 could have have done it? And why is Paul's message so different?

"For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace, which was given me by the working of his power. To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory. (Ephesians 3:1-13 ESV)"

(Peter didn't preach this. He was reveling to the Lost Sheep, that Christ was the one who the prophet Isaiah spoke of.)

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:1-8 ESV)"

"On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. (Galatians 2:7-10 ESV)"

Are these two different Gospels?




* The 12 had to obey and endure to the end.

"But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:13, 14 ESV)"

Some of the Jewish Believers, were confused with Paul's message because he was saying that circumcision was not necessary. Peter didn't even understand.

" But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. (Acts 15:1-6 ESV)"

This shows me that the message Paul received, was not known to the 12. Peter and the 12 weren't even aloud to associate with Gentiles, the law prevented them. When Jesus commanded peter to "Rise kill and Eat" Peter told him no.

"And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common."

"And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. (Acts 10:13-15, 28 ESV)"

* After Acts, why is most of the New Testament focussing on Paul's message to the Gentiles? Is it because the Jews didn't except the Messiah and because of that they were cut off for a time, and the Gentiles were Grafted in? ( I'm not talking about the 12).

"What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:30-33 ESV)"


"So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! (Romans 11:11-33 ESV)"

Why would the Jews be jealous if the Gentiles had the same Gospel? Remember the Gospel means " the good news".

This is something that has been weighing on my heart for a while, I haven't been able to share it with anyone because I was afraid i would be labeled a heretic. To me this puts to rest the controversy of James- "faith plus works", and Paul's-" faith without works". Please correct me if I'm wrong, i only ask that you use scripture to back it up. And I'm not trying to teach others to agree with this , I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.


Thanks,

Inchrist1

 

Hi, and welcome,

 

Have you ever heard of mid-Acts dispensationalism?  

 

Just FYI- I do disagree with that theology, but what you are saying sounds like Mid Acts theology. I know there are variations within Mid-Acts but one thing they teach is that the gospel of the Kingdom is different then the gospel to the Gentiles. Also, the gospels themselves were written to the Jewish people, as well as Acts, and Peters letters. Since Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul's letters were written to the Gentiles and contain the gospel to the Gentiles. What I find most interesting is that Mid Acts says that 'born again' applies to the Jews only since it is in the gospels, and not in the Pauline letters.   



#13
Inchrist1

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Hello to all my brothers and sisters in Christ!
* Was the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus and the 12 preached only for the Circumcision party? It seems to me that what Peter preached at Pentecost, in Acts 2 only applies to the Lost Sheep Of Israel. From what I can tell it is a continuation of what Jesus commanded in Matthew 10, the only difference is the crucifixion, and Resurrection.
"These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. As you enter the house, greet it. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town. (Matthew 10:5-15 ESV)"
* I don't see any Gentiles in this verse. And I'm May be wrong here but aren't the " Ones who are far off" the Jews who were scattered?
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. (James 1:1 KJV)"
* The 12 received there message from Jesus while he was still on earth. Paul received his message from Jesus in Heaven. Why was is necessary for Jesus to proclaim the Gospel to Paul, if the 12 could have have done it? And why is Paul's message so different?
"For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace, which was given me by the working of his power. To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him. So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory. (Ephesians 3:1-13 ESV)"
(Peter didn't preach this. He was reveling to the Lost Sheep, that Christ was the one who the prophet Isaiah spoke of.)
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:1-8 ESV)"
"On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. (Galatians 2:7-10 ESV)"
Are these two different Gospels?
* The 12 had to obey and endure to the end.
"But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:13, 14 ESV)"
Some of the Jewish Believers, were confused with Paul's message because he was saying that circumcision was not necessary. Peter didn't even understand.
" But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. (Acts 15:1-6 ESV)"
This shows me that the message Paul received, was not known to the 12. Peter and the 12 weren't even aloud to associate with Gentiles, the law prevented them. When Jesus commanded peter to "Rise kill and Eat" Peter told him no.
"And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common."
"And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. (Acts 10:13-15, 28 ESV)"
* After Acts, why is most of the New Testament focussing on Paul's message to the Gentiles? Is it because the Jews didn't except the Messiah and because of that they were cut off for a time, and the Gentiles were Grafted in? ( I'm not talking about the 12).
"What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” (Romans 9:30-33 ESV)"
"So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! (Romans 11:11-33 ESV)"
Why would the Jews be jealous if the Gentiles had the same Gospel? Remember the Gospel means " the good news".
This is something that has been weighing on my heart for a while, I haven't been able to share it with anyone because I was afraid i would be labeled a heretic. To me this puts to rest the controversy of James- "faith plus works", and Paul's-" faith without works". Please correct me if I'm wrong, i only ask that you use scripture to back it up. And I'm not trying to teach others to agree with this , I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Inchrist1

Hi, and welcome,

Have you ever heard of mid-Acts dispensationalism?

Just FYI- I do disagree with that theology, but what you are saying sounds like Mid Acts theology. I know there are variations within Mid-Acts but one thing they teach is that the gospel of the Kingdom is different then the gospel to the Gentiles. Also, the gospels themselves were written to the Jewish people, as well as Acts, and Peters letters. Since Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul's letters were written to the Gentiles and contain the gospel to the Gentiles. What I find most interesting is that Mid Acts says that 'born again' applies to the Jews only since it is in the gospels, and not in the Pauline letters.

MAD is where I learned this yes. Have you ever checked it out? At first i though it was garbage until i actually started to see if it lines up with the Bible. I'm still not 100% sold on it because there are parts i disagree with. All the differences in different doctrines has really bothered me lately, so I've been searching for truth, not about salvation i know I'm secure in Christ, just about how to correctly interpret scripture. I think if it's true, it takes away the confusion between James letter, and Paul's.

"What I find most interesting is that Mid Acts says that 'born again' applies to the Jews only since it is in the gospels, and not in the Pauline letters.


I have never heard of that, if true that is another thing i disagree with.

Thanks


Edited by OneLight, 26 May 2014 - 08:32 PM.


#14
OneLight

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Welcome ... Fixed your post.



#15
Inchrist1

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Thanks

#16
Littlelambseativy

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Welcome to Worthy!!

#17
Qnts2

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Hi, and welcome,

Have you ever heard of mid-Acts dispensationalism?

Just FYI- I do disagree with that theology, but what you are saying sounds like Mid Acts theology. I know there are variations within Mid-Acts but one thing they teach is that the gospel of the Kingdom is different then the gospel to the Gentiles. Also, the gospels themselves were written to the Jewish people, as well as Acts, and Peters letters. Since Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul's letters were written to the Gentiles and contain the gospel to the Gentiles. What I find most interesting is that Mid Acts says that 'born again' applies to the Jews only since it is in the gospels, and not in the Pauline letters.

MAD is where I learned this yes. Have you ever checked it out? At first i though it was garbage until i actually started to see if it lines up with the Bible. I'm still not 100% sold on it because there are parts i disagree with. All the differences in different doctrines has really bothered me lately, so I've been searching for truth, not about salvation i know I'm secure in Christ, just about how to correctly interpret scripture. I think if it's true, it takes away the confusion between James letter, and Paul's.

"What I find most interesting is that Mid Acts says that 'born again' applies to the Jews only since it is in the gospels, and not in the Pauline letters.


I have never heard of that, if true that is another thing i disagree with.

Thanks

 

 

I met some people online who were Mid Acts dispensational believers. They were attempting to convince others that Mid Acts was the truth. So, I listened and very quickly came to the conclusion that it was not correct. I minimally debated with them.

 

Being a Jewish believer, I see a lot of issues with MAD. I am what I call a modified dispensationalist, while I would classify MAD as hyper-dispentsationalist. In my view, dispensational has a lot which lines up with scripture, but hyper-dispensaltional MAD goes too far and becomes unbiblical.

 

As far as the gospel of the Kingdom vs. the gospel to the Gentiles, they are the same gospel. The only thing to to bear in mind is that they physical Kingdom on earth is in the future. When speaking to Jewish people, the Messiah is to be a King, according to the line of King David, so the idea of a physical Kingdom is an expectation, while Gentiles tend not to think so much about an earthly Kingdom, with the Messiah reigning on earth, but rather a heavenly Kingdom. Both are part of the same gospel so there really is no difference in gospel, but rather timing and cultural views of the same gospel.   



#18
Inchrist1

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I appreciate your kind response. I'm going to keep studying Acts, and Paul's epistles, there may be something I'm missing.

Here's something we can agree on,

Christ died, was burried, and rose again on the 3rd day for our sins,Once we believed this, and put our trust in his finished work, we were placed in Christ and seated in heavenly places. We died with Christ, were buried and raised to newness of life in Christ.

IT IS FINISHED!!! We can now rest in The Lord!!! Hallelujah praise Jesus!!!!

Edited by Inchrist1, 27 May 2014 - 10:41 AM.


#19
Willamina

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I agree that the gospel is the same to both Jews and gentiles.  The only things addressed to the gentiles was that they should abstain from meat that had been strangled and fornication , especially since these had to do with pagan religions.  It was not necessary to tell these things to the Jews.

 

​Since the destruction of Jerusalem forced all the Christians as well as the Jews into dispersion, it is certain that they did leave the city around 60 AD.  Only Peter and James mention this which lends credibility to very early writing of the 3 Gospels and even most of Paul's writings.  The dispersion impelled the spread of the Gospel.  Since few other apostles are mentioned, many may have been lost track of due to their travels or even have been martyred.  

There is strong extra biblical evidence that Thomas went to northern India.  A corrupted version of the judeo-christian religion exists there as well as archeological evidence.  The Gospel had also spread throughout the middle east, Ethiopia and Egypt and north Africa.. 1 Peter seems to be written from Babylon.  Churches remain in Africa but Islam has largely killed off believers in the  middle east and is still persecuting christians in the other countries.  We are not told who took the gospel to these nations.  Not all wrote letters or were even literate.

 

James brings balance to the Pauline letters, showing that while we are saved by faith, genuine faith is active and not passive.  We cannot have faith and not be changed over time so as to produce the evidence of compassion and some sort of obedience such as repentance, confessing Christ or being baptized, or hungering for the Scriptures.   We don't just go on living the same lives exactly as we had we had before conversion.  This is addressing the difference between head knowledge of those who know about Christ and those who truly have Christ living in them.  These later books helped them also to detect deceivers.

 

 



#20
kwikphilly

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Blessings InChrist....

     Welcome to Worthy....I see no difference in any of the Gospels,the message is always the same,always consistent, except the way it is delivered is a little different because of who is receiving it......thats all.

      The important thing is that Jesus came for everyone & He never made any distinctions,He offered Salvation to all,through Himself....the Grace of God is for anyone who asks and believes.    He spoke to the woman at the well the same way He spoke to everyone,even she,a Samaritan,was shocked that Jesus being a Jew spoke to her.The Apostles understood by Jesus Walk on earth that God is not a respecter of persons and all the Glory belongs to God!

                                                                                                                                        With love-in Christ,Kwik






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