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The 5th Beast Of Daniel

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#1
Salty

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On another thread there's an on-going debate about today's superpowers and the idea of how Daniel 2 points to a final 5th beast kingdom, and according to some a revived Roman empire, all for the very end of this world.

 

I only agree with some of that, like a 5th beast idea represented by the separate part of the 'feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay'. I definitely believe that is a separate part of the beast image that Daniel was given to interpret from Neb's dream that God gave him. The reason is because further down in Dan.2 we're shown a stone not made with hands (Christ Jesus) will strike the feet of the beast and it along with all the other beast parts coming tumbling down together. I say, that is pointing to a final 5th beast kingdom setup over all the earth, to include and revival somewhat of all the other previous beast kingdoms along with the feet.

 

Others that may partly agree with me on this continually point to the EU, or America and Britain, or Rome, or to powers of Islam, but one place they will not point to involving the feet of iron mixed with clay is Jerusalem, when that is where God specifically is pointing to for the end with the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem.

 

So even though Christ points directly to Jerusalem (like in Rev.11) as being the final beast's seat for the last days prior to Christ's 2nd coming that means we are not to say anything about it here on this Forum, or suffer censorship???

 

That's all the many suppositions are about the beast which point away from Jerusalem at the end of this world, just suppositions. Jerusalem has been a seat of false worship many times throughout its history, and God caused it to be sacked many times (27 and counting) because of it. It should be no less important today to understand His Word about the final 28th time Jerusalem is to be sacked in the last days with Christ's second coming. If those here who operate this forum think that warning in God's Word is too much to handle, then they should take it up with Him, and understand how to not become a part of the future false worship that's ordained to occur in Jerusalem's future prior to Christ's return.

 

 

 



#2
Parker1

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Maybe the issue is your approach and manner, not your content. Have you considered that instead of whining about "censorship?"



#3
OneLight

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So even though Christ points directly to Jerusalem (like in Rev.11) as being the final beast's seat for the last days prior to Christ's 2nd coming that means we are not to say anything about it here on this Forum, or suffer censorship???


This site is very open to discussion. What is not accepted is teaching, breaking the TOS, nor a highly negative manner of posting. If your threads have been "censored", it would be for one of those reasons only. Perhaps your approach is what is the issue, not the content itself.

#4
ARGOSY

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That's all the many suppositions are about the beast which point away from Jerusalem at the end of this world, just suppositions. Jerusalem has been a seat of false worship many times throughout its history, and God caused it to be sacked many times (27 and counting) because of it. It should be no less important today to understand His Word about the final 28th time Jerusalem is to be sacked in the last days with Christ's second coming. If those here who operate this forum think that warning in God's Word is too much to handle, then they should take it up with Him, and understand how to not become a part of the future false worship that's ordained to occur in Jerusalem's future prior to Christ's return.

 

True, Jerusalem is very involved in the future beast empire , and is the future seat of the antichrist's power.

 

I see the prophecies concerning the 3 cities of Jerusalem, Istanbul, and Rome as very intertwined. Yes the fourth beast is Rome, but the bible hints continuously at another final location of (Western Europe) Rome's Power. Rome MOVES its capital into a small region that is traditionally owned by western Europe, and that place is Israel. 

 

We can see these hints when Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel 7, yet its the "little horn" that rules at the end. Horns are traditionally countries within an empire, or divisions of an empire. Israel was part of the Roman empire in ancient days. It was a region of the Old Eastern Roman empire (Byzantium). It was a region of the newer Islamic Eastern Roman Empire (Ottomans). It was often a territory of Papal Europe during the crusades. It once again fell to western Europe during WW1, and remains an ally of Western Europe to this day. 

 

Israel is the little horn of Rome. So the truth is that the fourth beast is Rome, yet the capital of the West will move to Jerusalem.

 

Then we have the statue of Daniel 2, where we see three stages to the final iron kingdom of Rome:

1) Roman Empire

2) Split empire (Byzantium/Istanbul   and    Papal Rome/Europe)

3) Ten toes Rome (a new ten part empire)

 

Reading about the 8 consecutive empires of Rev 17:10-11  we have the same 3 stages of Rome mentioned. 5 were and one is (Rome):

Rome

7th empire (split rome?)

8th empire = 10 part Revelation beast

 

Now this final beast kingdom of Rome in Rev 17 has ten kings, yet is NOT Rome, because Rome (the prostitute) SITS on the beast, therefore Rome is not the beast. These ten horns and the little horn are located elsewhere, not in western Europe.

 

where is this ten-horned final power of Rome located? Easy question to anser, revelation 13 says this final beast resembles the leopard. Remember the leopard represents the third beast of Daniel 7 which is Alexander's Empire. This empire was based in Greece and the Middle east.

 

Conclusion: the fourth beast IS Rome, yet the final manifestation of the power of Western Europe will be in the Middle East. The two part Roman Empire, Europe and Turkey, will set up a new ten part union in the Middle East to reign until Jesus comes. Jerusalem and Istanbul will rule this new Empire.

 

 

Does this two-part power that sets up the beast remind you of anything? What about the second beast of Rev 13? Two little horns and yet controls the world and gives the beast power. This once again refers to the two cities of Istanbul and Rome, because it not likely there are four powerpoints on earth, two described in Daniel 2 and two described in Rev 13. These are separate prophecies about the same two end-time players, Istanbul and Rome. (Turkey and Western Europe)They co-operate to set up Israel as foremost beast (empire) on earth. The antichrist will have authority there for 42 months.

 

Its a lot to ponder on, but I'm with you that the antichrist rules from Jerusalem, but I also believe Rome (western Europe) remains a major player in making this happen.



#5
Salty

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True, Jerusalem is very involved in the future beast empire , and is the future seat of the antichrist's power.

 

Well, at least we don't disagree on that.

 

 

 

I see the prophecies concerning the 3 cities of Jerusalem, Istanbul, and Rome as very intertwined. Yes the fourth beast is Rome, but the bible hints continuously at another final location of (Western Europe) Rome's Power. Rome MOVES its capital into a small region that is traditionally owned by western Europe, and that place is Israel. 

 

We can see these hints when Rome is the fourth beast of Daniel 7, yet its the "little horn" that rules at the end. Horns are traditionally countries within an empire, or divisions of an empire. Israel was part of the Roman empire in ancient days. It was a region of the Old Eastern Roman empire (Byzantium). It was a region of the newer Islamic Eastern Roman Empire (Ottomans). It was often a territory of Papal Europe during the crusades. It once again fell to western Europe during WW1, and remains an ally of Western Europe to this day. 

 

Israel is the little horn of Rome. So the truth is that the fourth beast is Rome, yet the capital of the West will move to Jerusalem.

 

The "little horn" Dan.7 prophecy involving the "ten horns" was covered by Christ in Rev.17, making that "little horn" the beast king of Revelation. This is one pointer about the coming Antichrist that has slipped past many of my Christian brethren's thinking, because the coming Antichrist will be a king in Jerusalem. That's the "little horn", and notice his relationship with ending the daily sacrifices and causing the transgression of desolation (i.e., "abomination of desolation" - idol worship).

 

Read Golitsyn's New Lies For Old and then tell me about Rome and the EU. He said Communists in Russia have had the long-range goal since 1958 to create a one united Socialist-Europe, "from the Atlantic to the Urals." Looks like it's still working. The Insider Prof. Quigley said the western globalists often work with the Communists, and have no problem doing so. Makes sense, they're both after the goal of a one-world government under their power.

 

 

 

Then we have the statue of Daniel 2, where we see three stages to the final iron kingdom of Rome:

1) Roman Empire

2) Split empire (Byzantium/Istanbul   and    Papal Rome/Europe)

3) Ten toes Rome (a new ten part empire)

 

Reading about the 8 consecutive empires of Rev 17:10-11  we have the same 3 stages of Rome mentioned. 5 were and one is (Rome):

Rome

7th empire (split rome?)

8th empire = 10 part Revelation beast

 

Now this final beast kingdom of Rome in Rev 17 has ten kings, yet is NOT Rome, because Rome (the prostitute) SITS on the beast, therefore Rome is not the beast. These ten horns and the little horn are located elsewhere, not in western Europe.

 

where is this ten-horned final power of Rome located? Easy question to anser, revelation 13 says this final beast resembles the leopard. Remember the leopard represents the third beast of Daniel 7 which is Alexander's Empire. This empire was based in Greece and the Middle east.

 

Conclusion: the fourth beast IS Rome, yet the final manifestation of the power of Western Europe will be in the Middle East. The two part Roman Empire, Europe and Turkey, will set up a new ten part union in the Middle East to reign until Jesus comes. Jerusalem and Istanbul will rule this new Empire.

 

Definitely agree the 4th beast 'was'... about the Roman empire, a pagan empire, not the same thing as the papal states and Christian foundations involving Rome and Byzantine. Turkey is more closely linked to the area of old Togarmah. It is to align with Russia and its allies (see Ezek.38).

 

Also see about Tri-Lateralism. The globalists have the goal to divide the earth into 3 parts, 3 unions like the EU. They've had that plan since the '70's when Rockefeller setup Jimmy Carter and Brzezinski as heads over it. I see the ten king division based on that, and then when the little horn arrives, subduing 3 of the kings, which to me suggests taking over their power to put those 3 underneath, the whole looking like a triangle (little horn on top, 3 kings underneath next, and the 7 below them). Thus I believe the "seven heads" (or "seven mountains") essentially mean those 7 kings over the 7 main continents, the whole earth basically, with the Tri-Lateral Commission's other division of 3 unions dividing the earth by the 3 subdued kings, and then the little horn on top over it all. As of this moment, that's the best fit I can make out the globalist's plans compared with the Bible prophecy structure. I think their hidden structure in the U.S. for an American union is still in place, since Jerome Corsi years ago got info released on all the departments that were already created to help bring it about.

 

 

 

Does this two-part power that sets up the beast remind you of anything? What about the second beast of Rev 13? Two little horns and yet controls the world and gives the beast power. This once again refers to the two cities of Istanbul and Rome, because it not likely there are four powerpoints on earth, two described in Daniel 2 and two described in Rev 13. These are separate prophecies about the same two end-time players, Istanbul and Rome. (Turkey and Western Europe)They co-operate to set up Israel as foremost beast (empire) on earth. The antichrist will have authority there for 42 months.

 

Its a lot to ponder on, but I'm with you that the antichrist rules from Jerusalem, but I also believe Rome (western Europe) remains a major player in making this happen.

 

I'm not really seeing the Turkey - Europe connection. True Turkey is still a NATO ally today, but that could change since they are after all a Muslim nation. I think the Togarmah pointer is important enough to warrant watching Turkey.

 

What I see with the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 is the Antichrist, and the role of the false prophet of Rev.19, and the role of the beast king of Rev.17, all in one entity that will set himself up as God, to be worshipped as God. The Antichrist role is really about the 'pseudo-Christ' role Jesus warned of in Matt.24:23-26. Jesus was also a Prophet (The Prophet really). That's why that false one of Rev.13:11 is also called a 'beast', i.e., the "another beast" who has two horns LIKE a lamb (Jesus), but speaks as a dragon (the devil). That's the beast king role of Rev.17. All those roles are in usurping our Lord Jesus Christ's Throne and Crown, His inheritance from The Father via king David. Afterall, our Lord Jesus is King of kings, and Lord of lords too.

 

 

 


Edited by Salty, 04 July 2014 - 09:34 PM.


#6
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Would this 5th beast be the last one in Revelation, as in ch 17?

 

From what I see in Daniel, there are 6 beasts.

 

The lion, bear, leopard, diverse one, the ram and the goat.

 

The ram and the goat are Persia and Greece, which correspond to the bear and the leopard.

 

So there are 4 kingdoms. Where is the 5th?



#7
Salty

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Would this 5th beast be the last one in Revelation, as in ch 17?

 

From what I see in Daniel, there are 6 beasts.

 

The lion, bear, leopard, diverse one, the ram and the goat.

 

The ram and the goat are Persia and Greece, which correspond to the bear and the leopard.

 

So there are 4 kingdoms. Where is the 5th?

 

I think it is, definitely.

 

The idea of a 5th beast kingdom comes from the 5 separate pieces of the beast statute. The last piece is the feet of ten toes. If one is not careful, they will read the 'legs of iron' part over into the feet of ten toes when they manifest at separate times. The other common sense link is how the 4th beast of 'legs of iron' represented the pagan Roman empire which is no more, while it's the beast of feet with ten toes when Christ comes to smite it upon its feet to cause the whole statue to come tumbling down 'together', as shown in Dan.2



#8
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That's OK if you make another beast to fit the last part of the image.

 

But I guess the toes are the times of the horns of the 4th beast (of the divided Roman empire).



#9
Marilyn C

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Hi Paradox,

 

You have hit the nail right on the head as to the error of trying to fit the great image & the 4 beasts together. They are not the same & this has been the great misunderstanding for years. The Great Image as we know has 5 body parts & represents the 5 Gentile World Rulers. The `4 beasts,` however are but Super Powers not World Rulers. When you see the difference then what is happening in the world falls in to place.



#10
Salty

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That's OK if you make another beast to fit the last part of the image.

 

But I guess the toes are the times of the horns of the 4th beast (of the divided Roman empire).

 

You mean other than today's Rome, right? I don't see today's Church of Rome as the 4th beast, nor the implied 5th beast of Dan.2. The "legs of iron" represented the 4th beast of history, the pagan Roman empire. But the feet of ten toes of iron mixed with clay represent the opposition between different religions and peoples on the earth (and maybe something else I won't go into), which is why the final beast kingdom will be partly strong, and partly broken. I know the ten horns are shown with the 4th beast of Dan.7:7, however, the feet of ten toes relates to those ten horn kings and the little horn for the end. Because of that some think it's showing a revival of the old pagan Roman empire.

 

But will the are of Rome and the Roman Church be involved in the false worship that happens in Jerusalem when the Antichrist comes there to exalt himself as God? Yes, as all the major religions on earth will be a part of that Antichrist's authority in that time. And that's what the Scriptures are pointing to with the Rev.13:1-2 beast kingdom and the dragon given power for 42 months over all peoples and nations.



#11
Salty

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Hi Paradox,

 

You have hit the nail right on the head as to the error of trying to fit the great image & the 4 beasts together. They are not the same & this has been the great misunderstanding for years. The Great Image as we know has 5 body parts & represents the 5 Gentile World Rulers. The `4 beasts,` however are but Super Powers not World Rulers. When you see the difference then what is happening in the world falls in to place.

 

I don't think he has understand that idea, which is partly what he is asking.

 

The beast statue part of the feet of ten toes does relate to the idea a beast kingdom, just as the other pieces do also. It's not a 'world ruler' with ten toes that is partly strong and partly broken. Even in Dan.2:41 we are told the feet of ten toes is about a "kingdom".



#12
Marilyn C

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Salty,

 

`World Ruler,` refers to the person (ruler) & the kingdom (ruler). 

 

See Dan. 2: 37 - 39 where God refers to the king as ruler & the kingdoms ruling also.



#13
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I'll just paint a picture how I see it, from the three visions in Daniel.

 

The head of gold, lion,

The arms of silver, bear, ram

The thighs of brass, the leopard with four heads, the goat with four horns

The legs of iron, the diverse beast, the little horn that grew "exceedingly great"

The feet of iron and clay, the ten horns, the continued little horn until the end

The kingdom of Christ, same for all three visions

 

In Revelation the beasts follow this order, taking up the beasts where Daniel left off.

The 1260 years of persecution by Papacy, Rev 12 and 13:1, 

The rise of America 13:11 and the beginning of communism by revolutionary France Rev 11:7

Communism goes global while it disappears, the beast that "was, and is not, and yet is" Rev 17:8 ?

 

The beasts in bold lettering total 8 in all, and "the eighth" is "of the seven" Rev 17:11

 

This simple counting identifies each beast as it appears in history.

 

What about the red dragon? He's not called a beast, but Satan, with seven kingdoms or attempts at ruling the world.

 

So Salty, you are right about a 5th beast.

 

At the time of the last beast, "five are fallen, one is the other is not yet come" Rev 17:10

 

The Papal beast has long fallen, America is, and whatever "is to come" may not be a kingdom but a global movement?

 

The text "is of the seven" could mean composed of all kingdoms? See 17:15. nations - plural. As in 11:18.



#14
ARGOSY

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To all. 

 

I regard Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 as matching prophecies.  They both in context and history are a clear reference to four consecutive kingdoms:

Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome

 

Rome has 3 stages in Daniel 2:    Rome... divided Rome (2 feet)..... ten toes Rome

This 3 stage Rome is also reflected in Revelation 17 .... 5 were and one is (Rome was in power when the verse said "one is")

6th empire Rome....7th empire (divided Rome)....... 8th empire= ten horn beast

 

Daniel 7 however just lists the two stages of Rome:

Rome......then little horn/ten horns

 

Whichever way we look at it, the fourth kingdom is Rome (Western Europe), which is the superpower behind the rise of the ten-horned beast. This final beast is an extension of Western Europe's power. 



#15
ARGOSY

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This is what is happening in the Middle East at the moment. Europe is using the Arab Spring to weaken enemy countries and to strengthen allies in the Middle East. And Europe is using the USA to weaken enemies as well. End result is Europe will assist Turkey to establish the rise of the Israeli antichrist in a ten nation Turkish Union.

 

This EU/Turkish Union alliance is the repairing of the deadly wound when Rome split into Papal Rome and the Byzantium Empire. (one of the heads has a deadly wound, the splitting of the 6th head)



#16
inchrist

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Hi Argosy

 

I thought I would import my interpretation on what you said, just a slight fix

 

Rome has 3 stages in Daniel 2:    Rome... divided Rome (2 feet)..... ten toes Rome
This 3 stage Rome is also reflected in Revelation 17 .... 5 were and one is (Rome was in power when the verse said "one is")
6th empire Rome....7th empire (Revised Rome this includes the toes -The seventh head  also had "ten horns"/ further  the ten king confederacy are said to "give their power and strength … [and] their kingdom unto the beast" (Revelation 17:12-13, 17 ))
 
8th empire= "little Horn" which is synonymous with "the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth" (Revelation 17:11)
 
One beast who is the 8th beast with 7 Heads, which a woman rides, and has been riding it since we first heard her name and all the 7th kingdoms trace their roots back to her, the greatest kingdom that ever existed, the Mother of All whores who spawned the 7 Kingdoms, does not exist now but still exists now, she wasnt destroyed but she has fallen and will be rebuilt.
 
7 Kingdoms
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Revived Babylon kingdom
4. Medo -Persian
5. Greek
6. Roman
7 Revised Roman / or Islam 
 
The beast is the 8th kingdom
 
The woman is the rebuilt city of Babylon
 
edit: added Islam to 7th Kingdom cant rule them out

Edited by inchrist, 06 July 2014 - 08:16 AM.


#17
Paradox

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Inchrist,

 

Going by what Argosy said about the wounded head, which head in your model had the wound?



#18
inchrist

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Inchrist,

 

Going by what Argosy said about the wounded head, which head in your model had the wound?

 

The 3rd Kingdom in my list the Babylonian kingdom



#19
Salty

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Salty,

 

`World Ruler,` refers to the person (ruler) & the kingdom (ruler). 

 

See Dan. 2: 37 - 39 where God refers to the king as ruler & the kingdoms ruling also.

 

But in one of your lists above (post #9) you set the feet of ten toes (one of the 5 pieces of the statue) as a "World Ruler", trying to separate the idea of the Daniel 'beasts' between a ruler (like Neb) and super-powers (i.e., just powerful nations).

 

In reality, the beast term is applied to both the subject of the 5 pieces of the statue of Dan.2 and the animal symbols in Rev.7. Even in Dan.4 & 5 the beast idea is directly applied to Nebuchadnezzar. It is the same in Revelation 13 & 17, the word beast applied both to a kingdom, and to a king. So of course they both go together, which appears to be a point your suggestion about super powers tries to get away from.

 

You said:

"The Great Image as we know has 5 body parts & represents the 5 Gentile World Rulers.The `4 beasts,` however are but Super Powers not World Rulers. "

 

 

Dan 2:41-42
41    And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron,
the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42    And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay,
so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
(KJV)

 

 

The beast of ten toes involves the ten horned beast kingdom of Dan.7. This is why Jesus connected the Dan.7 animal symbols in Rev.13:2 when presenting the ten horned beast kingdom of Rev.13:1.

 

Rev 13:1-2
1    And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and
saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2    And the beast which I saw
was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
(KJV)

 

 

In the following Dan.7:7-8 Scripture is where Christ was pulling from in showing John about the ten horn, seven head, ten crown beast kingdom of Rev.13:1. But He INCLUDED the "leopard", "bear", and "lion" symbols of the previous Dan.7 verses also when pointing to that ten horned beast kingdom.

Dan 7:7-8
7    After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
8    I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
(KJV)

 

 

However, in Dan.7:17, Daniel is told these four beasts are "four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

 

Dan 7:17
17    These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
(KJV)

 

Not "Super-Powers", but "four kings".

 

 

What John was shown with the Rev.13:1 beast was how it "was like" the "leopard", "bear", and "lion". It's because it directly connects Dan.2 about the 5 pieces of the beast statue, for as written there the whole of it is to come tumbling down "together" when Christ smites it upon its feet of ten toes. What does that signify involving the beast animal symbols of Dan.7?

 

It signifies how a revival of all the previous beast kingdoms of Daniel will be co-joined with the beast of ten toes, but subordinate to it. Like a revival of the previous beast kingdoms (and kings). That would mean 'your' Babylon idea, but on a smaller scale, being under the power of the 5th beast of ten toes. It also means the Roman empire, and the Macedonian empire, etc., all under the final beast of ten toes. It is essentially about the "one world government" system of our near future, with the whole world divided up among those ten kings (ten toes).



#20
Marilyn C

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Well Salty,

 

I will await & watch for the reviving of the Babylon Empire of Neb. the Medes & Persian Empire & the Greecian Empire & the Roman Empire. Please tell me when you see it, & then I can tell you that you interpreted correctly.

 

PS. I`m not holding my breath though. :mgcheerful: And just trying to be friendly there Salty.






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