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Is gluttony a sin?

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#41
shiloh357

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So lets get this straight..

 

If I judge one for being overweight, then I am a hypocrite? Matthew 7:2-5

If I point out in a loving way that someone should probably lose weight because it may be damaging to their health, then I am not a hypocrite? Ephesians 4:15

 

No, if someone judge someone else for being a glutton while he or she is a glutton  and sees nothing to condemn in his or her own gluttony then he or she a hypocrite.

 

Yes but if I judge someone for their sin, then I am a hypocrite. If I merely point it out, then I don't think I am a hypocrite.

 

No hypocrisy isn't judging some for a sin.  You need to learn what the word means.  Hypocrisy is condemning or judging someone for a sin that you feel is okay for you.   Get a dictionary or something and learn what the word means instead of trying to repeat the same incorrect information over and over simply because you want justify your incessant need to judge overweight people as gluttons.

 

I have a feeling you really look down on overweight people.



#42
GoldenEagle

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A lot of Christians seem to think that alcohol is inherently evil. However, a lot of Christians apparently (from their appearance) seem to think that gluttony is OK. Is gluttony a sin, or not? If so, then we seem to be treating it like an 'acceptable sin'.

 

It is interesting that people think that drinking alcohol is evil. Yet many people don't eat well or excercise. But not everyone that is overweight or obese is a gultton. Can we agree?

I do see what you mean though. People will harp on alcohol, homosexuality, abortion, etc. but totally overlook gluttony, gossip, pride, etc. They make their church leaders out to be idols or celebrities. Some are patriotic to the point of having church services specifically for national holidays (in the U.S. for example Memorial Day or Independence Day, etc)... Is this where you are coming from Peteeer?

God bless,

GE

 

Yes finally someone gets my point!

I am NOT talking about those who have some hormonal issues or are on pharmaceuticals. I AM talking about (and it is perfectly reasonable to assume these people exist), those who are PERFECTLY NORMAL and CAN lose weight if they just tried. Also, in relation to those who are skinny, yet eat whatever they want and eat a load of rubbish food, they are also not looking after themselves. 

 

BOTTOM LINE: I have come across lots of hypocritical, self-righteous, 'do good' Christians, who think that being tee-total makes them so awesome and better than others, however they don't mind being overweight. Far too many Christians are over weight who could be a much healthier weight if they just exercised self control... and exercised. Just looks bad to non-believers when you can't be bothered to look after yourself. 

 

P.S - PLEASE please please can nobody bring up some irrelevant medical condition again that one may have that causes them to gain weight. That is a different issue.

 

 

I see what you're saying. Yes, people can be lazy sometimes. To exercise people often have to go out of their way. Join a membership or play a sport. Particularly in the West where private transportation is the norm. And walking or jogging is a hobby.

What brought this up? Something on the forums or in real life?

I wouldn't expect a very good welcome though here regarding what you're trying to say or discuss. Chances are people will either say you're judging people or try to point out your own faults. Weight can be a touchy subject from what I've observed.

Notice nobody even mentioned or commented the passages that I presented. Lol.

God bless,

GE



#43
GoldenEagle

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two years ago at 6' 2.5" I weighed almost 320 pounds.....   I had tried several diets and lost a little but not much seemed to work for me so I got some college biology books and started learning how the human body works at maintaining itself.

 

Save you several hours reading what it boils down to is this......    if you eat more calories than you body used for energy and repairing your muscle system it stores those calories in fat cells....   The cells are already there unless yours is all full, and the cells are small and flat until they are needed for storage.

 

When you need more energy than you eat in calories your body empties the fat cells until there is no more overage.....   then it starts eating both muscle and fat cells to turn them into energy......     So if you are overweight and have body fat it really doesn't make any difference what you eat as long as it's less than you consume.....      A college professor about two and a half ago years lost 60 pounds eating nothing but Twinkies and Doritos for about six months     all less than a thousand calories a day.

 

An old retired doctor that I have coffee with most mornings told me the same.....  less than a thousand calories a day and the weight comes off quickly to start and after about 25 pounds a little slower.     If you have a lot of loose one must be careful to get the right kinds of things to remain healthy while burning off the fat.  So eating Twinkies for six months is really not a good idea.....   actually it's probably really bad for your long term health.     When you get the excess fat cells emptied out one has to always maintain that balance of intake and output.

 

One thing I did learn was once the fat cells are empty, if you go on a high protein very low carb diet you can pretty much maintain your muscles and destroy fat cells.   It is much easier to not gain the weight back if you destroy the fat cells.    low carb diets for an extended period of time is very unhealthy.

 

Long story short for me I lost 65 pounds then fell and split the large bone in my left arm at the wrist about two inches and just layed it open a bit over a quarter of an inch wide.....     My surgeon thought it wise for me to get off the diet for a year until I was completely healed from the break and two surgeries.

 

When you get right down to it, eating 1000 calories a day is not really difficult to do....   start by fasting for at least a day to let your stomach shrink and give you a head start...

 

if you check the freezer section of the grocery store you can find all kinds of frozen meals that are about three hundred calories and with a shrunk stomach and eating very slowly, you can do the diet and really not be hungry.  I would recommend taking vitamins along with it to insure you are not missing something important.

A year ago when I stopped the diet I was down to 250...    a year later this morning I was at 259.... so I haven't put much back on for the year I've been off the diet......    Next week I'm going to start it up again and  shoot for the weight I was at when I stopped smoking 27 years ago.  (200).....      One meal a week one needs to just forget about the diet......   mine is Sunday after church with friends......   but not go crazy.

 

Most of the success or failure is all mental....   but I can tell you that when you start looking at how many calories food has in it, you will change your eating habits.    Cucumbers are a really good snack food......   whole pickles are also if you happen to like pickles....

 

Starting Monday I won't have another potato chip for probably two years.......   and for most of us that's the problem......  I love potato chips.

 

So

 

All good points Other One. Particularly in bold.

Eat less calories but eat healthy. Don't completely remove carbs from your diet.

Success or failure has a lot to do with mental toughness.

Diet combined with exercise is a beautiful thing. :thumbsup:

God bless,

GE



#44
Peteeeer

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So lets get this straight..

 

If I judge one for being overweight, then I am a hypocrite? Matthew 7:2-5

If I point out in a loving way that someone should probably lose weight because it may be damaging to their health, then I am not a hypocrite? Ephesians 4:15

 

No, if someone judge someone else for being a glutton while he or she is a glutton  and sees nothing to condemn in his or her own gluttony then he or she a hypocrite.

 

Yes but if I judge someone for their sin, then I am a hypocrite. If I merely point it out, then I don't think I am a hypocrite.

 

No hypocrisy isn't judging some for a sin.  You need to learn what the word means.  Hypocrisy is condemning or judging someone for a sin that you feel is okay for you.   Get a dictionary or something and learn what the word means instead of trying to repeat the same incorrect information over and over simply because you want justify your incessant need to judge overweight people as gluttons.

 

I have a feeling you really look down on overweight people.

 

Yes I can't be bothered with the nuances of this debate.

I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 



#45
shiloh357

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So lets get this straight..

 

If I judge one for being overweight, then I am a hypocrite? Matthew 7:2-5

If I point out in a loving way that someone should probably lose weight because it may be damaging to their health, then I am not a hypocrite? Ephesians 4:15

 

No, if someone judge someone else for being a glutton while he or she is a glutton  and sees nothing to condemn in his or her own gluttony then he or she a hypocrite.

 

Yes but if I judge someone for their sin, then I am a hypocrite. If I merely point it out, then I don't think I am a hypocrite.

 

No hypocrisy isn't judging some for a sin.  You need to learn what the word means.  Hypocrisy is condemning or judging someone for a sin that you feel is okay for you.   Get a dictionary or something and learn what the word means instead of trying to repeat the same incorrect information over and over simply because you want justify your incessant need to judge overweight people as gluttons.

 

I have a feeling you really look down on overweight people.

 

Yes I can't be bothered with the nuances of this debate.

I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 

 

There are no nuances, here.  You just don't know what hypocrisy means and evidently don't want to be bothered to look it up.  You would rather impose your misinformed views on others.



#46
ayin jade

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I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 

 

 

And yet right there you did look down on them. You said their weight gain is due to addictions when it is clear that there can be many reasons beyond food addictions for a person to be overweight. You are judging based on appearance. 



#47
shiloh357

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I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 

 

 

And yet right there you did look down on them. You said their weight gain is due to addictions when it is clear that there can be many reasons beyond food addictions for a person to be overweight. You are judging based on appearance. 

 

Yep.



#48
Omegaman

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Anyone can lose weight. there should not be any dispute about that at all. Is it the same for everyone? No, for some it is difficult for some medical reason, for most who are overweight, it is improper dietary practices. Again, I stress, this might be open to excuses, but the facts are what they are.

 

Not everyone who is overweight, is over weight from fat accumulation. For example, some people's bodies accumulate and store excessive water. This makes the body expand, but it is not fat.

 

However, as has been pointed out, this thread is not about being overweight, it is about gluttony (a symptom of gluttony can be obesity).

 

Gluttony is about excessive indulgence in pleasures, and although it is about food, excessive self indulgence is a sin, in the form of gluttony and in other forms as well. God has promised the beleiver that he/she is able to resist sin (1 Cor 10:13), and the fruit of the Spirit, which all beleivers have and can have in increasing measure, includes self control. Failure to exercise our God given fruit, is in a sense, a rejection of God's will for us, a resisting of the santifying work He is performing.

 

Is there any way that is not a sin? Does anyone really disagree with this? Wow, since I began writing my reply, 4 others have replied, something in the thread must have really struck a chord with many!

 

Is excessive indulgence in worthy forums also a problem? It might be, if there is something we should be doing instead!



#49
Peteeeer

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I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 

 

 

And yet right there you did look down on them. You said their weight gain is due to addictions when it is clear that there can be many reasons beyond food addictions for a person to be overweight. You are judging based on appearance. 

 

If you want to believe that I am judging someone of their appearance then fine. Although I am not. I have explicitly stated time and time again that I am talking about those who have normal physiology, not one who doesn't.



#50
shiloh357

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So lets get this straight..

 

If I judge one for being overweight, then I am a hypocrite? Matthew 7:2-5

If I point out in a loving way that someone should probably lose weight because it may be damaging to their health, then I am not a hypocrite? Ephesians 4:15

 

No, if someone judge someone else for being a glutton while he or she is a glutton  and sees nothing to condemn in his or her own gluttony then he or she a hypocrite.

 

Yes but if I judge someone for their sin, then I am a hypocrite. If I merely point it out, then I don't think I am a hypocrite.

 

No hypocrisy isn't judging some for a sin.  You need to learn what the word means.  Hypocrisy is condemning or judging someone for a sin that you feel is okay for you.   Get a dictionary or something and learn what the word means instead of trying to repeat the same incorrect information over and over simply because you want justify your incessant need to judge overweight people as gluttons.

 

I have a feeling you really look down on overweight people.

 

Yes I can't be bothered with the nuances of this debate.

I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 

 

There are no nuances, here.  You just don't know what hypocrisy means and evidently don't want to be bothered to look it up.  You would rather impose your misinformed views on others.

 

You seem like you are so bigoted I don't want to discuss anything with you at the moment.

 

I am not being a bigot.  but the fact is that you  don't know what the word "hypocrite" means and you are trying to label all of us as hypocrites.   You are not even using the word "bigot" correctly, either.    A bigot is a racist or someone who discriminates against someone because of their religion or something.  The problem is your misinformation.  The problem is not my correction of your misinformation.



#51
Peteeeer

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I think I need to mention that I do NOT think that being fat is a sin. I also do not hate fat people. It makes no difference to me how big someone is, other than I would try to help them. I have very good friends who are fat. 

The reason I posted this post:

I was talking about those who have beliefs that are not stated explicitly in the Bible (such as complete abstinence from alcohol for everyone no matter what) but then don't follow principles that ARE stated explicitly in the Bible such as gluttony. I see this very often. Sorry if I offended anyone!



#52
Peteeeer

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So lets get this straight..

 

If I judge one for being overweight, then I am a hypocrite? Matthew 7:2-5

If I point out in a loving way that someone should probably lose weight because it may be damaging to their health, then I am not a hypocrite? Ephesians 4:15

 

No, if someone judge someone else for being a glutton while he or she is a glutton  and sees nothing to condemn in his or her own gluttony then he or she a hypocrite.

 

Yes but if I judge someone for their sin, then I am a hypocrite. If I merely point it out, then I don't think I am a hypocrite.

 

No hypocrisy isn't judging some for a sin.  You need to learn what the word means.  Hypocrisy is condemning or judging someone for a sin that you feel is okay for you.   Get a dictionary or something and learn what the word means instead of trying to repeat the same incorrect information over and over simply because you want justify your incessant need to judge overweight people as gluttons.

 

I have a feeling you really look down on overweight people.

 

Yes I can't be bothered with the nuances of this debate.

I don't look down on overweight people. Their weight gain is due to addictions and I have addictions too so I realize I am no better than them. 

 

There are no nuances, here.  You just don't know what hypocrisy means and evidently don't want to be bothered to look it up.  You would rather impose your misinformed views on others.

 

You seem like you are so bigoted I don't want to discuss anything with you at the moment.

 

I am not being a bigot.  but the fact is that you  don't know what the word "hypocrite" means and you are trying to label all of us as hypocrites.   You are not even using the word "bigot" correctly, either.    A bigot is a racist or someone who discriminates against someone because of their religion or something.  The problem is your misinformation.  The problem is not my correction of your misinformation.

 

Bigot - "having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others."



#53
shiloh357

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Bigot - "having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others."

 


 

Yeah, I still don't fit that category.  I never implied that my views are superior to yours.  My point is that you are using the word hypocrite incorrectly.  It's not bigotry to point that out to you.  Nor am I intolerant of your views.  Intolerance would mean that I don't want you to have the right to express your views.  Disagreeing with you for solid reasons isn't intolerance.   Your opinions are based on faulty knowledge. 



#54
Peteeeer

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Bigot - "having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others."

 


 

Yeah, I still don't fit that category.  I never implied that my views are superior to yours.  My point is that you are using the word hypocrite incorrectly.  It's not bigotry to point that out to you.  Nor am I intolerant of your views.  Intolerance would mean that I don't want you to have the right to express your views.  Disagreeing with you for solid reasons isn't intolerance.   Your opinions are based on faulty knowledge. 

 

So you were wrong again :o err I mean inaccurate.



#55
shiloh357

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Bigot - "having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one's own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others."

 


 

Yeah, I still don't fit that category.  I never implied that my views are superior to yours.  My point is that you are using the word hypocrite incorrectly.  It's not bigotry to point that out to you.  Nor am I intolerant of your views.  Intolerance would mean that I don't want you to have the right to express your views.  Disagreeing with you for solid reasons isn't intolerance.   Your opinions are based on faulty knowledge. 

 

So you were wrong again :o err I mean inaccurate.

 

No, I'm not wrong.  I wasn't wrong the first time.   You are the one misusing and misapplying terms like hypocrite and bigot.  I am not intolerant for pointing that out to you.   You are assigning motives to me that are false. 



#56
other one

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btw I personally don't think being overweight is sinful   maybe if you're 400 pounds.    It's putting food over things spiritual that is sinful.

 

Those who use the body being the temple may have a point but if it's really that way there are a few million people who live in Los Angeles who must be hell bound for the air quality there is very destructive to most people's respiratory systems.

In response to your other comment above as well, body-weight is pretty much a function of calories in/calories out, whatever you eat. There is acronym in the fitness world "IIFYM" which stands for "If it fits your macro-nutrients". Basically, as long as you stick to your macro-nutrient target, then you should get to your goal. This technique does not really discriminate against the food quality so long as the desired conditions mentioned above are being followed.

 

The air quality is irrelevant because that is something that you cannot control.

 

no one forces you to live in that city.......  yes there are things you can control.....  I have moved over medical conditions myself....  I turned down a job in LA in 1969 making about $50,000 a year......   lot of money 45 years ago.   My doctor told me that if I moved there I would not live to see 60 with my lungs at that time....    so yes you can control it.      So do I say that living in LA is a sin or not.

 

btw the Native Americans told them not to build a city there that the smoke from campfires would not rise.... they built the city  because of the natural harbor there.....   we knew of the air quality problems from the very beginning.   Maybe that's why it such a sinful place.....   cursed from day one.


Edited by other one, 30 May 2014 - 03:48 PM.


#57
Peteeeer

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btw I personally don't think being overweight is sinful   maybe if you're 400 pounds.    It's putting food over things spiritual that is sinful.

 

Those who use the body being the temple may have a point but if it's really that way there are a few million people who live in Los Angeles who must be hell bound for the air quality there is very destructive to most people's respiratory systems.

In response to your other comment above as well, body-weight is pretty much a function of calories in/calories out, whatever you eat. There is acronym in the fitness world "IIFYM" which stands for "If it fits your macro-nutrients". Basically, as long as you stick to your macro-nutrient target, then you should get to your goal. This technique does not really discriminate against the food quality so long as the desired conditions mentioned above are being followed.

 

The air quality is irrelevant because that is something that you cannot control.

 

no one forces you to live in that city.......  yes there are things you can control.....  I have moved over medical conditions myself....  I turned down a job in LA in 1969 making about $50,000 a year......   lot of money 45 years ago.   My doctor told me that if I moved there I would not live to see 60 with my lungs at that time....    so yes you can control it.      So do I say that living in LA is a sin or not.

 

btw the Native Americans told them not to build a city there that the smoke from campfires would not rise.... they built the city  because of the natural harbor there.....   we knew of the air quality problems from the very beginning.   Maybe that's why it such a sinful place.....   cursed from day one.

 

Some people have no choice where they live, Some people do have a choice whether they are overweight or not and they are who I am talking about.



#58
ayin jade

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Some people have no choice where they live, Some people do have a choice whether they are overweight or not and they are who I am talking about.

 

 

 

Unless you are in prison or a minor living at your parents home, you do have a choice in where you live.



#59
other one

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btw I personally don't think being overweight is sinful   maybe if you're 400 pounds.    It's putting food over things spiritual that is sinful.

 

Those who use the body being the temple may have a point but if it's really that way there are a few million people who live in Los Angeles who must be hell bound for the air quality there is very destructive to most people's respiratory systems.

In response to your other comment above as well, body-weight is pretty much a function of calories in/calories out, whatever you eat. There is acronym in the fitness world "IIFYM" which stands for "If it fits your macro-nutrients". Basically, as long as you stick to your macro-nutrient target, then you should get to your goal. This technique does not really discriminate against the food quality so long as the desired conditions mentioned above are being followed.

 

The air quality is irrelevant because that is something that you cannot control.

 

no one forces you to live in that city.......  yes there are things you can control.....  I have moved over medical conditions myself....  I turned down a job in LA in 1969 making about $50,000 a year......   lot of money 45 years ago.   My doctor told me that if I moved there I would not live to see 60 with my lungs at that time....    so yes you can control it.      So do I say that living in LA is a sin or not.

 

btw the Native Americans told them not to build a city there that the smoke from campfires would not rise.... they built the city  because of the natural harbor there.....   we knew of the air quality problems from the very beginning.   Maybe that's why it such a sinful place.....   cursed from day one.

 

Some people have no choice where they live, Some people do have a choice whether they are overweight or not and they are who I am talking about.

 

but who gets to decide whether their weight is good or bad if they are comfortable with it....    when I was three hundred and twenty pounds, I wasn't really that upset about it and my wife wasn't either...   I didn't decide to loose the weight because I thought I was sinning, I did so because my knee that the Air Force screwed up hurt.....   and it hurt a lot......   the rest of me was/is just fine.....   

My eating habits hasn't changed since I was a teenager.......    I didn't gain the weight I had until I quit smoking.....    my whole system got more efficient and with no changes in eating habits I gained a hundred and twenty pounds.....    so much good returns from that nasty sinful cigarette habit, and too boot when I quit smoking I started having asthma attacks......    

 

 

Good Lord we can call anything a sin can't we...

 

 

 

Life is hazardous to ones health so maybe it is good that we do abort so many.

 

one can take things to total absurdity



#60
walla299

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Some people have no choice where they live, Some people do have a choice whether they are overweight or not and they are who I am talking about.

 

 

Just wondering why you started this thread to begin with? Why is it that you seem to have it in for anyone who's overweight? 

 

More important: Where is Jesus in all of this?






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