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convincing each other

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Every one of you witnesses this every day i suppose: a christian trying to convince an atheist and an atheist trying to convince a christian. But why? Why does one group always tries to prove the other one wrong? Why can't we just life near each other with other faith and believes? Why is everyone wants the others to have the same believe? The world would be a much more peacefull place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

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If the body of Christ just sat back and did not speak the truth, many would never hear the good news. The great commision commands us to go and preach. To all the world. God desires that not one should perish. And when even one sheep strays and returns heaven rejoices. Besides there will never be peace between Gods camp and the enemys camp. This is a war.

Personally I do not recommend trying to presuade an athiest if you dont have the leading of The Holy Spirit to do so.

I do however desire that the christian verses an athiest debate should stop. On television. A while back they had one with that bill nye guy. The bible tells us the Holy Spirit draws people. Not a debate.

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So if the holy spirit draws people, christians don't have to? besides it remindes me of the holy war of the muslim. they have a holy war too.

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We ought to be the temple for the Holy Spirit. But many times, the temple appears to be under reconstruction, by God. That means, that we are on our way to become more Christ-like, when we choose to follow and listen to Him. Outside, the sight is not always pretty, if we miss the guidance and follow the Moses-formula; do the same thing which may have worked before, but fail to notice God is proposing something new.

 

Having been an atheist, I understand that way of thinking. Being a child of the Heavenly Father in Christ, I wish they could only experience the amount and quality of love God has for us. But then again, it can only be possible most of the time if I try to let that love show. It's not about falsely pretending to care, but to let that inner feeling shine through.

 

That's the best way of convincing I know of. In addition, as long as we communicate with words, and do not think exactly the same way, we may have to keep up with the debate. I guess most of the atheists and such come here for that; to see if our thinking holds any water. And I tell you the truth; I do my best for my thinking not to hold that water, but that my thoughts could be vehicle for the living water to spring forth. Unfortunately, there are probably a leak or two somewhere along the way in my pipeline system. The only perfect man ever walking on this Earth is the one I am trying to follow.

 

I leave the biggest part of convincing to Him. But in order for Him to be successful, He asks for me to let Him be known. And He as the Spirit can never be captured in a test tube and measured, because God does not give His Spirit in measures. It's about taking it or leaving it.

 

Manage I to leave the religious mambojambo out of the conversation and speak the plain Spirit of God, I might do some beneficial convincing for Him to finish with.

 

The debate will go on, tis' a Christian forum welcoming anyone with a sincere heart to understand, and we all will learn. Just remember the respect. For according to my understanding, each human being has been created in God's image. Now hold that thought. It's just about to get exciting over here ;) Or what did you think? We all came here for nothing, but why then, do even the simplest life forms try to defend their existence if it's for no meaning at all? Sorry, here's me convincing again.

 

Don't take my word for it, let God show you. Outside of anyone's opinions. Deep within your being.

 

And excuse my convincing. Better convinced than convicted :D

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The Bible tells Christ's followers to present the Gospel.  When you think about it, the urgency to convince hinges on one thing:  Is there an afterlife and where do we spend it if it exists?  When you put it into perspective, it is probably the most urgent question we must ask in this life.  The agony and pleasures of this life pale with the vision of eternity.  I don't think the convincing is going to stop.  I think judging others and religiosity should stop, but not heartfelt concern for others.

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Find a video of Pen Jillette get gift of bible, or something like that, it is all over youtube. I am sure you can find a text of it as well, but I think hearing him say what he says, gets his point across best.

 

For those who do not recognize the name, he is the speaking one of the Penn and Teller magic team, and an obviously bright man, who is famous for being outspoken on atheism and Libertarian-ism.

 

I think he explains, as well as anyone can, why believers have to proselytize or they are just immoral and uncaring.

 

It is not directed at Christians by any means, but I think every Christian should see it, and consider what he says, and every non-believer should see it as well, if they want to understand why believers just cannot drop the subject.

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Every one of you witnesses this every day i suppose: a christian trying to convince an atheist and an atheist trying to convince a christian. But why? Why does one group always tries to prove the other one wrong? Why can't we just life near each other with other faith and believes? Why is everyone wants the others to have the same believe? The world would be a much more peacefull place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

Are you trying to convince us to stop trying to convince each other?

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The world would be a much more peaceful place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

 

~

 

Without Jesus

 

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

 

There Is No Hope,

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

No Peace,

 

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. John 14:27

 

No Life

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Matthew 24:21-22

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So if the holy spirit draws people, christians don't have to? besides it remindes me of the holy war of the muslim. they have a holy war too.

Phil 2:10-13

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth,

and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in

my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and

trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

KJV

The war is lost to the atheist and every mouth shall confess it... we are just obedient to God

to tell them to come to Jesus while salvation is offered! Love, Steven

Edited by enoob57
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Every one of you witnesses this every day i suppose: a christian trying to convince an atheist and an atheist trying to convince a christian. But why? Why does one group always tries to prove the other one wrong? Why can't we just life near each other with other faith and believes? Why is everyone wants the others to have the same believe? The world would be a much more peacefull place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

 

Mark 16:15-16 (NKJV)

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

 

I believe that it is our responsibility to preach the gospel and teach others about Christ, but that does not mean we should involve ourselves in heated debates with those who do not believe. It is not our job to "convert" others, but to just let others know about Christ and let them make their choice. Whatever choice they make they shall be judged upon when Christ returns. So, your job is to spread the gospel, and if anyone refuses to believe do not waste your time and energy arguing with them when you could be using that time to win more souls. 

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So if the holy spirit draws people, christians don't have to? besides it remindes me of the holy war of the muslim. they have a holy war too.

I think that God wants to use people but He is not limited to using people, for a refrence look how God did Paul. i see jihad as apart of the war i am speaking of. Basicly i see it as evil empire vs. The Almighty. The enemy dosent care what mask he wears as long as he can trick people into worshiping him instead.

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 The world would be a much more peacefull place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

34“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35“For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHERAND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHERAND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW36and A MANS ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

--Jesus in Matthew 10

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....it reminds me of the holy war of the Muslim. they have a holy war too....

 

~

 

Holy

 

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. John 18:36

 

War

 

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

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Dear Schouwenaars,

 

I do really understand your point of view. Can you too understand the point where we are arriving at the situation? For us touched by the Living God and Jesus Christ, the world is in need of salvation. After having become part of it ourselves, we wish others to receive that grace as well. We know how the life was before that, many of us having seen the rough side of life before coming to Jesus. I don't even speak of other religions of philosophies, but the dark despair of not having any meaning of life. Whilst many religions and philosophies do offer some kind of meaning to life, which is great in itself, what for us made the difference, was the power of God. Revelation from the Father Himself, through Jesus, about the very nature of our Creator.

 

All this, makes it very difficult not to share with the whole world, in addition we were commanded to do that.

 

It's not about the religion, because no religion can save a single soul. Only Jesus Christ can and does.

 

And that's what we are doing our best to convince others about. That's why this forum exists.

 

It will make it easier for you to be here, to understand there basic principles about our faith.

 

God bless.

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I do really understand your point of view. Can you too understand the point where we are arriving at the situation?

 

I can perfectly understand your point of view as well. But i was thinking of the sentence: 'don't do to others what you would not like they do to you.

I mean: how would you like it if some random arab tries to make you muslim? because that's how not-christians see it. just another religious guy.

not that i say christianity is just like one of the many believes, but that's how it's seen by others.

i understand you think it's your duty to make other's believe, but we live in a world of freedom and free thinking. 

so i know you have to spread christianity, but please just don't judge or hate others because of their believes. we already have enough conflicts in the world.

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I do really understand your point of view. Can you too understand the point where we are arriving at the situation?

 

I can perfectly understand your point of view as well. But i was thinking of the sentence: 'don't do to others what you would not like they do to you.

I mean: how would you like it if some random arab tries to make you muslim? because that's how not-christians see it. just another religious guy.

not that i say christianity is just like one of the many believes, but that's how it's seen by others.

i understand you think it's your duty to make other's believe, but we live in a world of freedom and free thinking. 

so i know you have to spread christianity, but please just don't judge or hate others because of their believes. we already have enough conflicts in the world.

 

Actually, the sentence you were misquoting says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."   We have message regarding the love of God and that His love has made a way for us to have a relationship with Him through His Son, Jesus Christ.  The Gospel also lets man know that if we reject God, we face judgment and an eternity in hell, separated from God.

 

If that message is true and I believe it is, the most unloving thing I could do, is not tell anyone about God's love for them.    Do unto others...   I tell them about the love of Jesus because if the situation were reversed, I would want them to care enough about me to tell me.

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i said i understand that you have to do this because you believe that if you don't, you go to hell.

all i ask is to hold in mind not to judge or hate the ones who don't have the same view on this.

have different opinions and respecting those is also something that seperates humans and animals.

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There is no respect for the immorality of error... only the perfect separation of truth abides forever!

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i said i understand that you have to do this because you believe that if you don't, you go to hell.

I am not trying to convince others because I feel I will go to hell if I don't do it. 

 

all i ask is to hold in mind not to judge or hate the ones who don't have the same view on this.

have different opinions and respecting those is also something that seperates humans and animals.

 

Who is judging or hating anyone???  

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Judgment, hatred, bigotry are not at all associated with the Gospel.  It seems more of a caricature of people who really want to make others aware of the Good News.  If a Moslem (and I have Moslem friends) tries to convince me to convert to her religion, I am grateful for her concern and take the opportunity to engage and offer her something better.

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i said i understand that you have to do this because you believe that if you don't, you go to hell.

all i ask is to hold in mind not to judge or hate the ones who don't have the same view on this.

have different opinions and respecting those is also something that seperates humans and animals.

I hope I totally misunderstand what you are saying there. You make it sound as though, that I think that if I do not preach the gospel to you, that I will go to Hell. If that is your understanding, we have totally failed at presenting our position.

I preach because I love the savior who gave me life, saved my soul, through His sacrifice, by His suffering in my place. 

If the motivation were only about going to Hell or not, I would be motivated by the idea that if I do not preach, YOU might go to Hell, not that I will.

To stay silent, is the moral equivalent of watching a blind person standing on a lane on a freeway, unaware of the big rig truck speeding to his/her location. If I am a moral person, at some point, I will warn them, and if they unresponsive, I might even shove them out of the way, even if they insist that they are fine and do not need assistance..

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I do really understand your point of view. Can you too understand the point where we are arriving at the situation?

 

I can perfectly understand your point of view as well. But i was thinking of the sentence: 'don't do to others what you would not like they do to you.

 

:thumbsup:

 

So

 

"Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12 (NLT)

 

Be Well

 

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

 

Your OK, I'm OK

 

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

 

And Go Straight To Hell

 

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

 

Or Dear Brother Run, Run To Jesus

 

Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Luke 3:7

 

And Be Saved

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

Beloved, Which One Is Loving And Kind

 

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15

 

And Which One Will Judge

 

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18

 

And Condemn 

 

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

 

A Fellow

 

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:10

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Every one of you witnesses this every day i suppose: a christian trying to convince an atheist and an atheist trying to convince a christian. But why? Why does one group always tries to prove the other one wrong? Why can't we just life near each other with other faith and believes? Why is everyone wants the others to have the same believe? The world would be a much more peacefull place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

Are you trying to convince us to stop trying to convince each other?

 

 

i was just asking why, because i didn't understand why.

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i said i understand that you have to do this because you believe that if you don't, you go to hell.

all i ask is to hold in mind not to judge or hate the ones who don't have the same view on this.

have different opinions and respecting those is also something that seperates humans and animals.

I hope I totally misunderstand what you are saying there. You make it sound as though, that I think that if I do not preach the gospel to you, that I will go to Hell. If that is your understanding, we have totally failed at presenting our position.

I preach because I love the savior who gave me life, saved my soul, through His sacrifice, by His suffering in my place. 

If the motivation were only about going to Hell or not, I would be motivated by the idea that if I do not preach, YOU might go to Hell, not that I will.

To stay silent, is the moral equivalent of watching a blind person standing on a lane on a freeway, unaware of the big rig truck speeding to his/her location. If I am a moral person, at some point, I will warn them, and if they unresponsive, I might even shove them out of the way, even if they insist that they are fine and do not need assistance..

 

 

so you only preach the gospel because you care about other people and you don't want them to go to hell. ok, i get it then.

but i stay with the opinion that nowone has to go too far, like those jehova witnesses.

i might let them come in once to let them do what they have to. unless i need someone to talk with :)

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Every one of you witnesses this every day i suppose: a christian trying to convince an atheist and an atheist trying to convince a christian. But why? Why does one group always tries to prove the other one wrong? Why can't we just life near each other with other faith and believes? Why is everyone wants the others to have the same believe? The world would be a much more peacefull place if everybody would just let other people believe what they want.

Are you trying to convince us to stop trying to convince each other?

 

 

i was just asking why, because i didn't understand why.

 

His point is that you are trying to do the very thing you are suggesting we should not do.  It is a self-defeating position.

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