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A New Take On Generational Curses

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#1
Butero

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As many of you know, there is a doctrine being taught that people can be living under a generational curse.  If your Grandfather was a thief, the idea is that you can be suffering under a curse because of his sins.  If your Great Grandmother was a witch, you can be under a curse because of her sin.  What we are taught is that we must renounce those sins in the name of Jesus Christ to be free from the curse.  I am with the majority view that there is no such doctrine in the Bible, at least no such remedy for a generational curse.  At the same time, a particular situation came to mind, and I wanted others opinion about it.  I am speaking of how Jacob prophesied concerning the 12 tribes of Israel, and much was based on actions of the original patriarchs.  You will find this in Genesis chapter 49.  I won't go through the entire passage, but will give you an example. 

 

Genesis 49:3,4

 

Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power.  Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defilest thou it:  he went up to my couch. 

 

Reuben had sexual relations with one of his Father's concubines, and it appears this led to a type of curse upon the entire tribe of Reuben.  You will find similar things mentioned about the rest of the tribes, both good and bad, based on things these men who the tribes were named for did.  Next you see Simeon and Levi and references to how they slaughtered a large group of people to avenge the defiling of their sister Dinah.  My question is whether or not anyone would consider this a type of generational curse?  In addition, do you believe that those who are part of the individual tribes are going to continue to live under curses and blessings according to the original prophetic words given by Jacob?  Do these individuals have a remedy, like simply renouncing the sins of their forefathers.  In the case of Reuben, it would be renouncing his sin with his Father's concubine, or will they always be unstable as water and unable to excel?  What are your thoughts concerning this, and other examples in scripture where a curse was pronounced, as in the case of Eli in the book of 1 Samuel, where he failed to restrain his sons for their sins, and a curse came upon him and his children.  Was there any remedy for them?  Was this a type of generational curse?  I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. 



#2
shiloh357

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I  don't believe in generational curses either.   I do think that our sins have consequences and sometimes those consequences affect more people than just us.  A father who commits adultery or is a thief or whatever will bring down consequences that will affect his children.  Those are not, in my opinion "curses," but "fruit." 

 

I think that what some people label as generational curses are nothing more than the unintended consequences of sin.  The leaven of sin infects the whole family and future family members maybe stuck with having to deal with the consequences of the sins of their parents or grand parents.

 

I think the story of Reuben that you mentioned illustrates what happens when fathers are not good examples for their children.



#3
other one

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I don't think there are generational curses, but there are generational Satanist Families....   but I think it's the result of the parents teaching thier offspring the ways of the dark side and thier children seeing the short term gains that can result.



#4
Sevenseas

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I absolutely believe that curses are still in effect.  Those who are not saved are certainly living under a curse and whatever other curses that their ancestors, parents or they themselves have brought down on themself.

 

Just one answer for that:

 

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE   Galatians 3:13

 

God cursed a number of things when Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden....have those curses been revoked?  

 

Generational curses are in the Bible whether someone believes in them  or not.

 

As Christians, we accept that Christ became a curse for us and bore all our sins and all that we could ever commit.

 

Disobedience to God invokes curses.  See the OT



#5
Butero

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I think you may be right Sevenseas.  I was thinking about the answer Shiloh gave.  There is no question that the actions of one person effects his children in the natural, so I am not disagreeing with that, but that can't be the entire answer to curses.  Again, lets look at the house of Levi and the curse on them.  1 Samuel 2:31-33

 

Behold the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house.  And thou shalt see an enemy in my habitation, in all the wealth that God shall give Israel:  and there shall not be an old man in thine house forever.  And the man of thine, whom I shall not cut off from mine alter, shall be to consume thine eyes, and to grieve thine heart:  and in all the increase of thine house shall die in the flower of thine age. 

 

This would seem to be more than just natural consequences of sin, but a curse.  Those who teach about generational curses would say that a descendant of Eli could simply renounce the sins of his fathers in Jesus name and shake off the curse.  I suppose the same thing would apply to the descendants of people like Reuben.  I haven't seen any scripture that indicates that to be true.  Is it your position Sevenseas that when someone is a faithful follower of Christ, they are automatically free from those curses, and when we disobey God, it brings curses?  Is it your position that through faith in Christ, the curses are broken by faith, but for the sinner under a generational curse, they have to live under the curse? 



#6
Sevenseas

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Whoah...I was expecting disagreement.... LOL!

 

I believe the Bible indicates that curses come via disobedience to God which God calls sin....which as we know is us missing the 'mark' ie God's holiness.

 

Here is a great intro to curses vs blessings:

 

 

When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come on you and you take them to heart wherever the Lordyour God disperses you among the nations, 2and when you and your children return to the Lord your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3then the Lord your God will restore your fortunesa and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. 4Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back.  Deut 30: 1-4

 

Notice the 'when', not 'if'...I think it is safe to conclude (still remembering this is the OT) that one way or another both blessing and curses will be incurred

 

Moving along:

 

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach12It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lordyour God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

 

Seems simple enough...if we obey the Lords words we are blessed and if not, we bring curses upon ourselves

 

This is basically the state of the world...choose God and live or rebel and die

 

Yes I know about various teachings on this subject and understand your question.

 

 

I believe scripture indicates that every single negative thing that could ever be upon our person or that we are living in or allowing room for in our lives or our families, has been dealt with by Jesus

upon the cross and He has already secured our freedom and we must believe that and rather than focus on the negative, demonic or curses, we should walk in obedience and that would even

include recognizing who the Bibles SAYS we are and believing that we are THAT person that God says we are.

 

We believe God has accomplished a complete work for us through His Son.  We believe that we are a new creation and old things have passed away.  We believe that the devil is defeated and

that we have the victory in the name of Christ.

 

 

Having said all of that, I believe we must continue to walk in obedience as God instructed the Israelites.  It's no secret that many many Christians suffer all kinds of things in their lives and admittedly

things they are not first person responsible for.  For example, if a Christian is attacked by a knife wielding thug, and injured, it is the sin of the attacker that the Christian suffers.  Even so, children

are born into families wherein they suffer BECAUSE of the sins of their parents.

 

Jesus came to break that cycle.  We find evidence for that in the OT.

 

The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will plant the kingdoms of Israel and Judah with the offspring of people and of animals. 28Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” declares the Lord. 29“In those days people will no longer say,

‘The parents have eaten sour grapes,

and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

30Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.  Jeremiah 31

 

We know that Jesus was out of communion with His Father as He cried "My God why have you forsaken me?"

 

There really is alot to the concept of blessing and curses and it is a great study.  Understanding these things (as much as I do at the moment) has been somewhat of a breakthrough for me

and some of my family and it has nothing to do with superstition or the like, but simply a study based on what Scripture has to say on the subject and how to release our self from the

consequences of both our sins and our ancestors sins.

 

And yes I know Jesus has removed from us our sins, but the laws God has set into motion have not changed and neither have the consequences for breaking them.  By laws here, I mean 

as described in Deuteronomy.

 

Not everyone agrees with what I have outlined here and I'm not here to argue.  I say simply check it out in the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you (anyone) what is true

 

I guess you'll let me know what you think.......

 

To answer the last of yr post above...yes I do believe that sinners are reaping what has been sown by ancestors, parents and themself



#7
Butero

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I agree with much of what you said Sevenseas.  I do have a follow up for you.  I mentioned Eli, and the curse that seemed to come on his family.  Lets suppose you have a living descendant of Eli today.  Would he be under that curse?  If yes why and if no why?  If he lives for Jesus, does that automatically mean he is not under that curse?  If yes why and if no why?  I am only looking for an opinion, so I recognize it is possible you may not have a certain answer.  Thanks in advance.  



#8
Sevenseas

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Well, if it's a generational curse, then 3rd or 4th generation?  And if the same actions are continually repeated by ensuing generations, do the math?  

 

I think that might explain why some people seem 'doomed' to make the same mistakes over and over or the same type of accident keeps over and over or runs in families.

 

I guess the outworking of a curse can be different from person to person...unless the curse is very specific

 

If I understand curses or the way they can work,  they operate in the spiritual realm and so require a spiritual solution....again, not something we can acomplish

 

However, as I posted earlier, there is most definately a way to be free of these things

 

This brought to mind the curse spoken by Joshua when the city of Jericho was destroyed so I googled it

 

'And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the LORD, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it'-Joshua 6:26

'In his days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by Joshua the son of Nun' -1 Kings 16:34

There they stood in the smoking ruins of what was left of Jericho. The Israelites had marched, shouted, blown, slaughtered, and burned. What does God want them to do now? Actually, it is what He does not want them to do that is important. He commands them to never rebuild the city that He had destroyed.1 Jericho was very pleasantly situated, and its nearness to Jordan was an advantage which would tempt succeeding generations to build on the same spot. Nonetheless, they are warned of what would happen to one who decided to rebuild the city. His oldest son would die when he began the work, and if he persisted, he would attend the funeral of his youngest son when he finished it.2

About five hundred and thirty years later (ca. 850 B.C.), during the reign of King Ahab, a man named Hiel3 of Bethel rebuilt Jericho. Just as God had said, when he laid the foundation, he lost his firstborn son (Abiram); and when he set up the gates, he lost his youngest son (Segub) (1 Kgs. 16:34). What a sacrifice to make for a city!

It is interesting, and instructive, to place ourselves mentally in the position of this man from Bethel. What possibly could have been behind Hiel's tragic mistake?

HIEL TEACHES US…THE DANGER OF IGNORANCE. Hiel could have been ignorant of this warning. He might have grown up in a family where the Bible was not read. He could have slept during Sabbath classes and misbehaved during temple worship services. He might have been sick the day that Joshua 6:26 was studied. Nobody may have cared enough to warn him when he started building on the old Jericho site. They might have reasoned, 'Well, I don't want to get involved. I'm sure he's read Joshua's curse. He's made up his mind. It's none of my business anyway. He can make his own mistakes.'

Spiritual ignorance is dangerous (Hosea 4:12 Chronicles 15:3Proverbs 19:2Matthew 15:14). There are threats the Bible makes which apply to people living today, and if we do not learn of them, and avoid breaking God's laws, we, too, will be punished. We can see, therefore, the urgency of studying the Bible and learning what God has commanded (2 Timothy 2:15Acts 17:11). 

 

I'm not familar with this site, but the reference to the curse seems well explained

 

And I most certainly agree with the statement: Spiritual ignorance is dangerous (Hosea 4:12 Chronicles 15:3Proverbs 19:2Matthew 15:14

 

I don't think we should be afraid of making a blunder that will lead to a curse....that would be contrary to all the promises we have and the new life in Christ that we have

 

But I do believe we, as Christians, can have some very vague ideas on certain spiritual issues and possibly those who have had to study these things, have a different understanding

 

There are reasons for everything.  I don't believe things happen in a vacumn

 

There was, actually, a time when I had no concept of these things and as a result, through ignorance, suffered from things that alot of people would say Christians cannot have in their life

 

I don't think that everything is 'fixed' the moment one is saved...I believe you are saved if you are saved...(genuinely) but a person may still wrestle with the unseen world if God allows



#9
FresnoJoe

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As many of you know, there is a doctrine being taught that people can be living under a generational curse. 

 

If your Grandfather was a thief, the idea is that you can be suffering under a curse because of his sins. 

 

If your Great Grandmother was a witch, you can be under a curse because of her sin. 

 

What we are taught is that we must renounce those sins in the name of Jesus Christ to be free from the curse. 

 

I am with the majority view that there is no such doctrine in the Bible....

 

:thumbsup:

 

In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

 

But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

 

 

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jeremiah 31:29-31



#10
Butero

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I guess what you are saying is that while there may have been generational curses in the past, that was while people were living under the Old Covenant, but now that we are living under the New Covenant, they no longer exist.  As Sevenseas has indicated, we open ourselves up to curses when we sin, but as Christians, are not under curses because of the sins of our fathers? 

 

I do have one question though.  This passage speaks of a new covenant with Israel and Judah.  Can we be sure this is speaking of the day we are living in?  Is it possible this could be speaking of the Millenial reign of Christ?  I am not saying it is, but since it mentions Israel and Judah specifically, and doesn't just mention a new covenant, I am just wondering. 

 

Anyway, thanks for all the good responses.  It certainly gives me something to consider.  I don't think the teachings we hear on generational curses today are right, but there definitely are examples of generational curses in the Bible, at least in the Old Testament.  If anyone else has any thoughts on this topic, feel free to add them. 



#11
kwikphilly

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Blessings Butero....

    I am in agreement with Sevenseas & I can talk about this topic & spiritual warfare all day long but for most,who have not the Wisdom nor the Understanding given them by the Holyv spirit,,,,pertaining to these things ,,,,,,,I feel it is better left unsaid,for a time.....each will come into their own time to receive different revelations & knowledge(or not)

    I am going to just say simply that the ultimate & final Truth (by Christ finished work on the cross) is that we are FREE in Christ Jesus......Until  a Christian is matured & equipped for some things then it is best to focus on God ,Standing firmly in his Word from the Position of Victory through Jesus...complete committment & submission,dying to oneself & living to Christ is key.......the more we increase ,,,the more He increases......receive as it is given .....It is not a good idea for ones who are milk fed to be studying generational curses,the law,the covenant of cold(the law),,,,,,they will often be taken out of context,misunderstood,misused,mis appropriated and not lead to any edification or building up for them........So,I do tend to not say much publicly.

     These things are very real but are of no consequence for Christians walking in spirit & in truth.........strengthening your bond,your relationship with the Lord,,,,,having intimacy with Him,,,,,,love the Lord with all your heart,all your mind & all your soul,Glory to God!

                                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik



#12
other one

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as I read through the thread, I see two different areas.....   one is the curse of God and its generational workings and the other kind of curse would be from the occult.....   then there are the families who practice following Lucifer and expect each generation to follow.

 

God has told us, as I understand, that he will no longer hold sons and grandsons guilty of the father's sins so I would thing if my memory serves correct that God breathed generational curses would still be in effect.

 

As for the occult, if one can get the devil to do things to a person, there isn't any reason they could not keep them harassing thier kids.    As for following Satan as a family, that would be  an individuals choice...



#13
Butero

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Kwikphilly, I agree with you that many cannot discuss things like generational curses because they are on the milk of the word and not strong meat, but I figure that if someone has enough interest to participate in a Christian message board like this, you should be able to bring up most Bible topics.  I come from the assumption the people I am dealing with have been studying scripture for many years.  I have been studying the Bible since I was 17, and am trying to gain more knowledge, and sometimes others at WB have thought of something that didn't occur to me.  I do appreciate your input, and mostly agree with what Sevenseas said as well. 

 

Other One, I think there probably is still a curse in place to those who are descendants of a family under a curse, like the house of Eli, but the bigger question to me is whether or not they are released from that curse when they get saved, or remain under it?  I know many ministers teach we have to renounce former curses out loud, and I haven't found any scripture that indicates that would be the case.  If I understand you right, you believe the God breathed curses remain, but if I had an ancestor that was hanged as a bank robber, I am not under a curse for his sin.  I am only responsible for my own actions.  There is no question there are natural curses where people simply live out the same life they were trained to follow, like following Satanism or witchcraft.  The Bible speaks of training up children in the way they should go, and I suppose that will often times work for evil as well as good. 



#14
Sevenseas

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I guess what you are saying is that while there may have been generational curses in the past, that was while people were living under the Old Covenant, but now that we are living under the New Covenant, they no longer exist.  As Sevenseas has indicated, we open ourselves up to curses when we sin, but as Christians, are not under curses because of the sins of our fathers? 

 

I do have one question though.  This passage speaks of a new covenant with Israel and Judah.  Can we be sure this is speaking of the day we are living in?  Is it possible this could be speaking of the Millenial reign of Christ?  I am not saying it is, but since it mentions Israel and Judah specifically, and doesn't just mention a new covenant, I am just wondering. 

 

Anyway, thanks for all the good responses.  It certainly gives me something to consider.  I don't think the teachings we hear on generational curses today are right, but there definitely are examples of generational curses in the Bible, at least in the Old Testament.  If anyone else has any thoughts on this topic, feel free to add them. 

 

 

OK...I was looking into this again earlier and reading Deuteronomy 29 and 30, I see no reason why Christians would be exempt or why these curses would not still apply...as they ALL revolve

around the choices we make as to whether or not we obey the words of God and choose, as He says, this day, who we will serve.

 

I don't think we loose our salvation from moment to moment or bring down a curse because we sinned.  I believe we are looking at continuing and unrepentant sin in the case of a curse

coming into effect.  God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins...we sin every day...God does not change, we are IN Him and yet there are laws in effect that God Himself put into

effect and we know that God does not go against His own word.

 

With regards to the new heart, I believe that happens when we accept Christ.  Everyone who accepts Him has a new heart...a new life if you will...old things are passed away.  I understand what

you are asking tho.

 

Some will say that since God made the covenant in Deut with the Isralites. it does not apply to Gentiles....BUT...is there really a different result if an Israelite disobeys God or if a Gentile

disobeys God?  If we still reflect on the 10 Commandments and honor them as being binding, why disallow the passages on blessings and curses? (not addressing this to you personally

Butero...just reflecting on arguments against the passage that I have come acroos)

 

Chapt 30, v 6, God speaks of circumcising the hearts of His people....(specifically the ones He was talking to in this chapter yes, but we are told to circumscize our hearts in the NT as well and

Paul advances the thought that results in purification, not of sin as only the blood of Christ can do that, but in singleness of purpose or heart and mind...that is, to follow the Lord which you

can only do if you obey.

 

Really, I don't personally see a whole lot of difference regarding which testament we are in when it comes to matters of sin, rebellion, repentance, forgiveness and so on.

 

God always offer life if we choose Him and if we rebel, the result is death.  God said that death would follow disobedience in the Garden.  The NT teaches that the result of

sin, disobedience to God, is death.  Nothing has changed there.

 

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

13When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;14but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

16Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

 

I believe generational curses are still in effect...sorry if I gave the wrong impression.  There is a balance there.  No one IN Christ needs to continue to live under a curse.  I do not believe that

everything wrong regarding sin and curses automatically changes at the moment of salvation.  Anyone who has lived that life for any number of years can most likely attest to that.  I do

believe that everything we could ever need has ALREADY BEEN SUPPLIED and we must believe that and live that.  That also, is obedience...God said so, therefore I accept what He says

BY FAITH and I act on that faith and do not accept living UNDER circumstances but I BELIEVE that Christ has already done all for me that ever needed or will be needed to be done.

 

I am complete IN Him...if I step outside of God's provision, I can become depressed, gloomy and react sinfully.  The joy of the Lord is not about how happy we feel but an acknowledgement of

all that Christ has done for us.  We believe that and we rejoice knowing that our trials on this earth are as nothing compared to what God has prepared for those who love Him.

 

All of what I just wrote is in the Bible.  Abrahams faith was accounted to him as righteousness and his obedience to God was severely tested (Isaac) but God said that now He KNEW that Abraham

believed Him and IN Him....of course God knew that anyway...but now the entire unseen world knew it as well and we have the testimony of saving faith even before Christ died.

 

We believe in what God has said.....I believe that the Biblical record regarding blessings and curses is given at face value and we should not put a spin on it.



#15
Sevenseas

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as I read through the thread, I see two different areas.....   one is the curse of God and its generational workings and the other kind of curse would be from the occult.....   then there are the families who practice following Lucifer and expect each generation to follow.

 

God has told us, as I understand, that he will no longer hold sons and grandsons guilty of the father's sins so I would thing if my memory serves correct that God breathed generational curses would still be in effect.

 

As for the occult, if one can get the devil to do things to a person, there isn't any reason they could not keep them harassing thier kids.    As for following Satan as a family, that would be  an individuals choice...

 

 

God alone can bless....and the curses we read of in the OT are also direct from God.  The devil ensnares people in order to bring down curses upon them.

 

As far as following the devil, we still have free choice.  If we don't believe that, then do we actually believe what scripture states?  If there is a devil then surely there must be also God?  No God equals

no devil IMO.   If there is no devil, then people are quite capable of making their own evil and happily blaming someone else for it.

 

As far as getting the devil to 'do things to a person', remember Job.  Those who are without salvation live under the curses in effect spoken by God to all those who rebel against Him

and worship false gods....what did the devil want?  He wanted God's place.

 

The Bible says he is the prince of the power of the air.

 

I believe much of what some people think is secret knowledge concerning the devil is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide his actually far more devious schemes then the worst among us

can begin to imagine.

 

However, God has a grip on that.



#16
Sevenseas

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Blessings Butero....

    I am in agreement with Sevenseas & I can talk about this topic & spiritual warfare all day long but for most,who have not the Wisdom nor the Understanding given them by the Holyv spirit,,,,pertaining to these things ,,,,,,,I feel it is better left unsaid,for a time.....each will come into their own time to receive different revelations & knowledge(or not)

    I am going to just say simply that the ultimate & final Truth (by Christ finished work on the cross) is that we are FREE in Christ Jesus......Until  a Christian is matured & equipped for some things then it is best to focus on God ,Standing firmly in his Word from the Position of Victory through Jesus...complete committment & submission,dying to oneself & living to Christ is key.......the more we increase ,,,the more He increases......receive as it is given .....It is not a good idea for ones who are milk fed to be studying generational curses,the law,the covenant of cold(the law),,,,,,they will often be taken out of context,misunderstood,misused,mis appropriated and not lead to any edification or building up for them........So,I do tend to not say much publicly.

     These things are very real but are of no consequence for Christians walking in spirit & in truth.........strengthening your bond,your relationship with the Lord,,,,,having intimacy with Him,,,,,,love the Lord with all your heart,all your mind & all your soul,Glory to God!

                                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

 

I agree.  I will say this though, if someone is young enough in the Lord that discussing this topic will be detrimental (I agree that there exists the potential for imbalance in most areas and this is one topic

that seems to facinate many) then they most likely do not quite understand what positional victory in Christ is either as these are not topics widely taught.

 

I've learned the hard way...experientially...and many times I would just as soon have remained happily singing "Jesus loves me" and forgone the advanced education.

 

However, I also believe that my experience, knowledge and reasons to know what I know and that God truly is victor, all came about because of my desire, which I believe God placed within me,

to know Him as He is and not how people represent Him.

 

I'm not negating what you wrote...again, I agree with you....and yes, this can never really be a crash course and of course it depends on the person too

 

Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.a They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

John 10



#17
kwikphilly

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Blessings Sevenseas.....

      God Bless you Sis,I think you know me well enough to know I am not a nit-picker-LOL  I understand completely what point you are trying to make & that we are in agreement.....adding your own thoughts are wonderful

 

However, I also believe that my experience, knowledge and reasons to know what I know and that God truly is victor, all came about because of my desire, which I believe God placed within me,

to know Him as He is and not how people represent Him.                                                                             posted for Sevenseas

Again....agreed   ...... and well said  !                                                                                  Love,Kwik

 

 

BTW,Years ago,as a "baby" Christian I had a friend/mentor that used to assure me I was forgiven for my past & whenever I would learn something new I used to panic because then I saw sin that I didn't know I was committing,again she would try to comfort me by saying I was not accountable for what I had not yet known,that it was okay,,,,,,,,,,LOL,I had stopped going to bible study for some time & she called to ask me why?    I said."Oh,I think I know enough that I can handle right now....I don't want to learn anymore so that I will not be held accountable" :24:      I thought you would get a chuckle,out of the mouths of babes!!!!!!



#18
other one

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Matt 6:9-13

'Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.
10'Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11'Give us this day our daily bread.
12'And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13'And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.]'
NASB

 

 

Remember that we are instructed to pray that the Fathers will be done on earth.........    as long as we have free will, that may well not happen.....   and with Satan having the control over so many people across the world.......    well just look around you....



#19
Sevenseas

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Blessings Sevenseas.....

      God Bless you Sis,I think you know me well enough to know I am not a nit-picker-LOL  I understand completely what point you are trying to make & that we are in agreement.....adding your own thoughts are wonderful

 

However, I also believe that my experience, knowledge and reasons to know what I know and that God truly is victor, all came about because of my desire, which I believe God placed within me,

to know Him as He is and not how people represent Him.                                                                             posted for Sevenseas

Again....agreed   ...... and well said  !                                                                                  Love,Kwik

 

 

BTW,Years ago,as a "baby" Christian I had a friend/mentor that used to assure me I was forgiven for my past & whenever I would learn something new I used to panic because then I saw sin that I didn't know I was committing,again she would try to comfort me by saying I was not accountable for what I had not yet known,that it was okay,,,,,,,,,,LOL,I had stopped going to bible study for some time & she called to ask me why?    I said."Oh,I think I know enough that I can handle right now....I don't want to learn anymore so that I will not be held accountable" :24:      I thought you would get a chuckle,out of the mouths of babes!!!!!!

 

 

Oh my...don't you wish, eh?  Well not really.   :biggrin2: I'm so glad we are in agreement on this one...I think it's a BIG one...and seems like we may have been entered into some of the same

classes at University of the Holy Spirit.






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