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At what point do we do it by ourselves?

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Okay, I've seen a number of threads here asking "What should I do?" referring to some problem or another. A lot of the answers are passive, effectively telling the asker to rely on God and explaining how helpless we are without him. Somebody is looking for a spouse - they are told be patient and wait. Somebody else wants a new job, they are just told to pray and wait for God to answer. Somebody else may have a problem with addiction. They are told that they can't succeed through their own efforts, instead they should just ask God. But is that what God really wants? It seems to me to be a lazy and irresponsible way to live your life.

 

Throughout the OT we read of God asking the Jews to do something. For example, when we expects the Jews to fight their enemies, he actually asks them to do it. He doesn't just say "sit back lads and leave it to me" and then go on a fire and thunder spree while the Jews just sit back and watch. He expects them to get involved through their own efforts. He just promises them victory and tells them that he has their backs. In other words, if they try, he will take care of the rest.

Should we not do that? Does God not want us to develop our characters through our own efforts?

Is there not a time when we are ever expected to just get up and do things for ourselves, using of course the talents and skills that God gave us in the first place?

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It is His guidance people are referring to wait for, not for Him to do things for us. Once we have His guidance, then we act accordingly.

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In a discussion about building an FM radio station in a church we were attending, the pastor made a statement that I agreed with and has rung true for many many years.....    He said to pray about things and then set out to do them and if it's in Gods will, it will work out.   If it's not then just let it go and get onto the next thing...

 

I agree that we are not to set down and expect God to do things for us, but to help us succeed in our endeavors....

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In a discussion about building an FM radio station in a church we were attending, the pastor made a statement that I agreed with and has rung true for many many years.....   

He said to pray about things and then set out to do them and if it's in Gods will, it will work out.   If it's not then just let it go and get onto the next thing...

 

 

Assuming there was such, what about all the wasted time and expenses needlessly incurred  because God was not in it? Why act presumptuously supposing God to bless it because we do it in His Name?

Has He not said. "Wait on Me"? If you believe I am in it, will I not open a door for it to happen, will I not make a way? But then, I am a Pentecostal. . . ;)

Edited by Cross Reference
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Okay, I've seen a number of threads here asking "What should I do?" referring to some problem or another. A lot of the answers are passive, effectively telling the asker to rely on God and explaining how helpless we are without him. Somebody is looking for a spouse - they are told be patient and wait. Somebody else wants a new job, they are just told to pray and wait for God to answer. Somebody else may have a problem with addiction. They are told that they can't succeed through their own efforts, instead they should just ask God. But is that what God really wants? It seems to me to be a lazy and irresponsible way to live your life.

 

Throughout the OT we read of God asking the Jews to do something. For example, when we expects the Jews to fight their enemies, he actually asks them to do it. He doesn't just say "sit back lads and leave it to me" and then go on a fire and thunder spree while the Jews just sit back and watch. He expects them to get involved through their own efforts. He just promises them victory and tells them that he has their backs. In other words, if they try, he will take care of the rest.

Should we not do that? Does God not want us to develop our characters through our own efforts?

Is there not a time when we are ever expected to just get up and do things for ourselves, using of course the talents and skills that God gave us in the first place?

Jesus once told me to give him the first few moments of every situation,  I gave my life to Jesus, and asked for his will to be my will.  Everything I do is as God has me do, and the Holy Spirit always gives me the grace to do God's will.

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Okay, I've seen a number of threads here asking "What should I do?" referring to some problem or another. A lot of the answers are passive, effectively telling the asker to rely on God and explaining how helpless we are without him. Somebody is looking for a spouse - they are told be patient and wait. Somebody else wants a new job, they are just told to pray and wait for God to answer. Somebody else may have a problem with addiction. They are told that they can't succeed through their own efforts, instead they should just ask God. But is that what God really wants? It seems to me to be a lazy and irresponsible way to live your life.

 

Throughout the OT we read of God asking the Jews to do something. For example, when we expects the Jews to fight their enemies, he actually asks them to do it. He doesn't just say "sit back lads and leave it to me" and then go on a fire and thunder spree while the Jews just sit back and watch. He expects them to get involved through their own efforts. He just promises them victory and tells them that he has their backs. In other words, if they try, he will take care of the rest.

Should we not do that? Does God not want us to develop our characters through our own efforts?

Is there not a time when we are ever expected to just get up and do things for ourselves, using of course the talents and skills that God gave us in the first place?

Jesus once told me to give him the first few moments of every situation,  I gave my life to Jesus, and asked for his will to be my will.  Everything I do is as God has me do, and the Holy Spirit always gives me the grace to do God's will.

 

:thumbsup:

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I have heard it said.  Keep moving;  God cannot steer a car which is motionless.  Once you are on the move, God can direct or redirect your path.  Much of what we do is on our own part, We decide when to get up (we set the alarm), But God directs circumstances to come in our lives, it is how we respond to these circumstance which will determine our growth in Him.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Sweet advice from you all.

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It is a unique aspect in which to walk with God and do His Will... He has given new

birth within us to renew (mind) and bring back the created element, (body and world),

not redeemed for the everlasting but to bring into subjection to the new mind toward

obedience in His Word. This is uniquely intimate with each individual toward The

infinite purpose of God... By a personal format and the wonder of Him revealed in lives

of His Children-> we, ourselves, receive living flesh and blood of Our Lord! If God's Word

says do and we enact ourselves in that doing we are doing the will of God in Christ Jesus

according to His Word... the waiting is when we are unclear of His Word in a situation

and we in worship to Him stop and nothing moves us but His Spirit and understanding that

comes from His instruct to us! Thus we are able to give an account for our doings according

to his Word which is the everlasting medium of Spirit and intent God Himself in His Son...

Love, Steven

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In a discussion about building an FM radio station in a church we were attending, the pastor made a statement that I agreed with and has rung true for many many years.....    He said to pray about things and then set out to do them and if it's in Gods will, it will work out.   If it's not then just let it go and get onto the next thing...

 

I agree that we are not to set down and expect God to do things for us, but to help us succeed in our endeavors....

 

I agree. :thumbsup:

 

Our pastor when I was stationed in Arkansas used to call that "putting feet on your prayers." :)

 

Example: I've needed a new career for years. I've looked for one . . . but haven't gotten anywhere yet. Does that mean I quit looking? No. It means I'm going to keep praying about it and keep looking and doing what I can -- because I believe God's Word teaches we should pay our debts off, and that's something I can't do on my current income. God's word trumps brick walls, closed doors, and age discrimination.

 

The OT patriarchs are another example. They trusted in God but didn't just sit in the tent door all day - they took care of their livestock, and the other affairs in their lives. They were not perfect and Scripture honestly reflects that too. Ancient Israel is another example. On several occasions God told them He was going to fight for them -- but He also expected them to show up for the battle! 

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I suspect that the Lord wants us to act once we have prayed for guidance.  Since the Scriptures tell us that "he that hath an ear........ I can assume that since we have limbs, eyes, and other senses, we should take full advantage of them and get to work.  Boots on the ground kind of stuff.  :lightbulb2:

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I suspect that the Lord wants us to act once we have prayed for guidance.  Since the Scriptures tell us that "he that hath an ear........ I can assume that since we have limbs, eyes, and other senses, we should take full advantage of them and get to work.  Boots on the ground kind of stuff.  :lightbulb2:

That's just it though......   you should be talking to Him all the time with everything you do......    even the little things.   I asked him if it was ok to hit the post button.

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That is a good question Oakwood.  I read Other One's comment, and it appeared sound, but so did Cross Reference in his response to Other One.  People ask questions because they are seeking out a multitude of counselors, and that is just wise.  Sometimes you don't get thought out answers, but just a hurried response like pray about it.  Sometimes people do put thought into giving good advise.  Ultimately the person asking the question has to make up their own mind what to do. 

 

When God is really in something, it will work out.  I remember when I was looking for a house.  I was led right to the place.  Everything fell into place to make the purchase.  We even had the exact amount of down payment needed.  On the other hand, when I have desired something that was not God's will, things never worked out.  Looking at it in my own life, I tend to think Other One and his Pastor are right.  Of course, you wouldn't want to go into debt on something if you aren't sure, but if the finances are there, why not go for it, and if God is not in it, the project will fail and you move on.  That makes more sense than sitting in one place doing nothing till you die.  Thanks for posting that Other One.  It certainly has me thinking. 

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Okay, I've seen a number of threads here asking "What should I do?" referring to some problem or another. A lot of the answers are passive, effectively telling the asker to rely on God and explaining how helpless we are without him. Somebody is looking for a spouse - they are told be patient and wait. Somebody else wants a new job, they are just told to pray and wait for God to answer. Somebody else may have a problem with addiction. They are told that they can't succeed through their own efforts, instead they should just ask God. But is that what God really wants? It seems to me to be a lazy and irresponsible way to live your life.

 

Throughout the OT we read of God asking the Jews to do something. For example, when we expects the Jews to fight their enemies, he actually asks them to do it. He doesn't just say "sit back lads and leave it to me" and then go on a fire and thunder spree while the Jews just sit back and watch. He expects them to get involved through their own efforts. He just promises them victory and tells them that he has their backs. In other words, if they try, he will take care of the rest.

Should we not do that? Does God not want us to develop our characters through our own efforts?

Is there not a time when we are ever expected to just get up and do things for ourselves, using of course the talents and skills that God gave us in the first place?

 

"My anger burns against the shepherds, and I will punish the leaders; for the LORD Almighty will care for his flock, the people of Judah, and make them like a proud horse in battle."

- Zech 10:3

 

Many good and sincere posts have been written here, but I submit that the true problem in America is not with those who try however haltingly to remedy their lives before God, but the lack of true dedicated shepherds.   Nearly all of them have become corrupted by money, false gospels or fear of awakening the wrath of society against them for attempts at evangelism.  Entire Protestant denominations have blasphemed the Bible and the true gospel, betraying the true faith for the sake of political expediency.

 

"If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it."

- Charles Finney

 

It is written that judgment begins in the house of the Lord.  If what is written in the Bible is true, then those who are responsible for the care and feeding of the flock of Jesus Christ are most wickedly courting the judgments of the Almighty.  They fly in the face of God Himself with their debauched gospels, their preaching of prosperity first and their embrace of one of the most hated sexual depravities spoken of in the Bible.

 

"There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the biggest reason America is in the mess that it's in today is directly due to the apathy and indifference of the American pulpit."

- Chuck Baldwin

 

The fires of hell are burning today and ready to receive not misbehavior, but those who commit it.  

 

GOD HATES SINNERS.   HE HATES THEM WITH A TERRIBLE WRATH.  

 

It is not some abstract behavior that will be cast into the lake of fire - it will be SINNERS.    

 

Judgment is operating even now, but in the incredible mercy of God forgiveness is also offered in the person and blood of Jesus Christ.   The gospel is the good news that despite the hatred of those who sin, God offers redemption and forgiveness.....but it is a message that MUST be transmitted to the world.  

 

To their shame our preachers have bleached the gospel, the Biblical warning and Our Lords incredible offer of peace and mercy.

 

The truth is too hard for our churches to bear today.  

 

It is a message born of warning and a present and real offering of mercy.  Eternal damnation awaits those who have expressed their hatred of God continually and shamelessly in our streets and in our faces.  Preachers who have sold their souls to the devil shall reap the reward of their treason in their own flesh.  Watch and learn, pilgrim.

 

Judgment begins in the house of God and if Christians don't get on their knees and put away pet sins and flirtations with the devil, THEY shall be the first to feel the wrath of God against them.  They shall not suffer hell as the wicked do, but they shall learn a terrible lesson of the PERMANENCE of the wrath of God.   Why test him?  Why fly in His face?  It is time to repent.  The end is nearly upon us and no church membership card is fire proof.

 

REPENT while you have time, for there is not much left to us.  The mercy of God is still offered.  

Escape the wrath which even now is being poured out upon us.

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

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I can name you at least a hundred people as righteous as lot and his family. God does not owe soddom a destructed America.

If you really think we are like Sodom, I don't think you know Sodom or the US.

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Rpj34652, where in the bible does it say God hates sinners?

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....where in the bible does it say God hates sinners?

 

:thumbsup:

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

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....where in the bible does it say God hates sinners?

 

:thumbsup:

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

that was my thought and point. I have never read or experienced that God hates His own creation. The bible says God is love.

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In Ephesians 6:13, speaking of the whole armor of God: Therefore take up the whole armor of God that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, AND HAVING DONE ALL, TO STAND. We are to do everything we know how to do that is made plain in Scripture, such as putting on each piece of our spiritual armor. And then we are to stand and wait with expectant faith that God will be faithful to do His part and bring in the victory.

Abe did his part and obeyed God's instructions to climb the mountain with his son carrying sticks for the sacrifice, and was prepared to follow through with faith in God. He showed that his hope was not in his son but in the God who kept His promises. Having done all we know how to do, we hold our ground and stand and see the salvation of God.

When the course I am taking does not have God's blessing, I will not have peace in my heart. If I am truly seeking His face I will stop and pray again and search the scriptures for more instruction as to my actions and time. When God told Moses he was to deliver his people he did it in his own wisdom and strength and slew an Egyptian. He had to go to the back side of the desert for 40 years to learn to not trust his own strength and wisdom but to wait for God's direction and timing. Learning God's when, where and how can be a learning curve. We need to walk softly before the Lord, unsure of our flesh, and looking constantly to be guided by His eye.

Dogs will watch our faces and eyes, and our gestures to read our commands. Watch a show on sheep dogs sometime. But our little Papillons do the same thing. We need to be that responsive to our Master to hear and obey Him, to sense the checks in our spirits and to be aware of the direction of His loving gaze.

Psalms 32:8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;

I will guide you with My eye. NKJV

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In a discussion about building an FM radio station in a church we were attending, the pastor made a statement that I agreed with and has rung true for many many years.....

   

He said to pray about things and then set out to do them and if it's in Gods will, it will work out.   If it's not then just let it go and get onto the next thing...

 

Assuming there was such, what about all the wasted time and expenses needlessly incurred  because God was not in it? Why act presumptuously supposing God to bless it because we do it in His Name?

Has He not said. "Wait on Me"? If you believe I am in it, will I not open a door for it to happen, will I not make a way? But then, I am a Pentecostal. . . ;)

 

:thumbsup:

 

Does God Really Help Those Who Help Themselves?

 

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

 

Or Does God Help Those

 

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

 

Who Wait Upon

 

Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. Genesis 18:14

 

Him?

 

I cried unto thee, O LORD: I said, Thou art my refuge and my portion in the land of the living. Psalms 142:5

 

That Is The Question???

 

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zechariah 4:6

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In a discussion about building an FM radio station in a church we were attending, the pastor made a statement that I agreed with and has rung true for many many years.....   

He said to pray about things and then set out to do them and if it's in Gods will, it will work out.   If it's not then just let it go and get onto the next thing...

 

 

Assuming there was such, what about all the wasted time and expenses needlessly incurred  because God was not in it? Why act presumptuously supposing God to bless it because we do it in His Name?

Has He not said. "Wait on Me"? If you believe I am in it, will I not open a door for it to happen, will I not make a way? But then, I am a Pentecostal. . . ;)

 

He will open doors and make ways, but if all you do is set on your butt, nothing is going to happen.        Too many people expect God to simply give them things while they set back and wait on them....   and sometimes wait a lifetime....

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Blessings Oakwood....

     One of my favorite little sayings has always been......."Reach up as far as you can & God will reach down the rest of the way".........It is funny that you should bring up this topic as right now I find myself in a situation where I am wondering if there is something I need to act upon or not .........the important thing to do is to trust God to give us direction & follow his lead.........be it to simply 'be still & wait".....or to move forward and proceed.....

      We do have to put our faith into action ,this can mean many different things but in all things may we give God the Glory & let His Will be done

                                                                                                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

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Okay, I've seen a number of threads here asking "What should I do?" referring to some problem or another. A lot of the answers are passive, effectively telling the asker to rely on God and explaining how helpless we are without him. Somebody is looking for a spouse - they are told be patient and wait. Somebody else wants a new job, they are just told to pray and wait for God to answer. Somebody else may have a problem with addiction. They are told that they can't succeed through their own efforts, instead they should just ask God. But is that what God really wants? It seems to me to be a lazy and irresponsible way to live your life.

 

Throughout the OT we read of God asking the Jews to do something. For example, when we expects the Jews to fight their enemies, he actually asks them to do it. He doesn't just say "sit back lads and leave it to me" and then go on a fire and thunder spree while the Jews just sit back and watch. He expects them to get involved through their own efforts. He just promises them victory and tells them that he has their backs. In other words, if they try, he will take care of the rest.

Should we not do that? Does God not want us to develop our characters through our own efforts?

Is there not a time when we are ever expected to just get up and do things for ourselves, using of course the talents and skills that God gave us in the first place?

 

You make some good points. We do need to wait on God for many things, yet He does expect us to walk forward---with Him. I am reminded of the Old Testament account of Elisha (my favourite prophet!) and his servant, found in 2 Kings 6:8-20:

 

Elisha Traps the Arameans

When the king of Aram was at war with Israel, he would confer with his officers and say, “We will mobilize our forces at such and such a place.”

But immediately Elisha, the man of God, would warn the king of Israel, “Do not go near that place, for the Arameans are planning to mobilize their troops there.” 10 So the king of Israel would send word to the place indicated by the man of God. Time and again Elisha warned the king, so that he would be on the alert there.

11 The king of Aram became very upset over this. He called his officers together and demanded, “Which of you is the traitor? Who has been informing the king of Israel of my plans?”

12 “It’s not us, my lord the king,” one of the officers replied. “Elisha, the prophet in Israel, tells the king of Israel even the words you speak in the privacy of your bedroom!”

13 “Go and find out where he is,” the king commanded, “so I can send troops to seize him.”

And the report came back: “Elisha is at Dothan.” 14 So one night the king of Aram sent a great army with many chariots and horses to surround the city.

15 When the servant of the man of God got up early the next morning and went outside, there were troops, horses, and chariots everywhere. “Oh, sir, what will we do now?” the young man cried to Elisha.

16 “Don’t be afraid!” Elisha told him. “For there are more on our side than on theirs!” 17 Then Elisha prayed, “O Lord, open his eyes and let him see!” The Lord opened the young man’s eyes, and when he looked up, he saw that the hillside around Elisha was filled with horses and chariots of fire.

18 As the Aramean army advanced toward him, Elisha prayed, “O Lord, please make them blind.” So the Lord struck them with blindness as Elisha had asked.

19 Then Elisha went out and told them, “You have come the wrong way! This isn’t the right city! Follow me, and I will take you to the man you are looking for.” And he led them to the city of Samaria.

20 As soon as they had entered Samaria, Elisha prayed, “O Lord, now open their eyes and let them see.” So the Lord opened their eyes, and they discovered that they were in the middle of Samaria.

 

 

 

Elisha's servant was beside himself not knowing what to do, yet Elisha, the anointed, who walked in his anointing, and knew who he was in God, had the sight that God blesses us with, and the courage that comes from trusting God completely. Elisha knew that god was right there and that he was under God's watchful protection at all times. He knew what to do.

 

God doesn't always tells us which way to go, and what is around the corner. He expects us to go with Him and He will minister to any situation as we find ourselves there.

 

He calls us to go ahead, be bold, and make decisions that He will bless.

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Vision is important for walking with GOD. As your relationship becomes more intimate GOD will reveal more of himself, but only after he reveals to you who you are. If you don't see what GOD is doing around you, then it's best to wait, until he allows you to see what he is doing at which time he is inviting you to work with him. Anything done without seeing is done in the dark and motivated by the flesh which is limited an absent of grace and anointing.

 

John 5:19-20New International Version (NIV)

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed.

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OakWood. You ask, "At what point do we do it by ourselves?"

 

If you are referring to leading a life well pleasing to the Lord, then the answer is, by yourself you cannot. 

 

However, the Holy Spirit who dwells within you can. But you must allow Him to do so, which is why Jesus said what He did in the following verses.

 

Jhn 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing

 

Jhn 5:19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

 

Jhn 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. 

 

Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 

 

May the Lord bless you.

 

Edwin.

Edited by Edwin
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