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The Rapture, Second Coming & the Fall Feasts

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#1
rollinTHUNDER

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Many Christians believe that Christ will fulfill the fall feasts (trumpets, atonement & tabernacles) when He returns, just as He fulfilled the spring feasts (Passover, unleavened bread, first fruits & weeks) during His first advent. This not only seems plausible, but very likely in my minds eye. However, of all the people I've heard say they believe this, I've never heard any of them describe how this would play-out using there own personal end time beliefs. In other words, what would these feasts look like if they were applied to the rapture theory they hold dear? What would the pre-trib rapture look like using the fall feasts as a pattern? And what about the mid-trib, post-trib, pre-wrath theories, etc.?

Most Christians believe the rapture will occur during the feast of trumpets, but how will the two following feasts be fulfilled afterwards?

Anyway, I thought it would be both fun and interesting to see how others laid out their individual scenarios according to the beliefs they have.

Just so you know, the fall feasts all occur in the month of Tishri, the seventh month on the Hebrew calendar, which are usually in September or October on our Gregorian calendars.

Feast of Trumpets - 1 & 2 Tishri
Day of Atonement - 10 Tishri
Feast of Tabernacles 15 Tishri

I realize this will take plenty of thought and some study as well, so take your time.

Have fun and good luck!

#2
Spock

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Rt,

I have to be honest with you bro, I wish you had laid out your study for us to ponder over. I know you have one.

#3
Marilyn C

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,

 

I am looking forward to putting some notes together for this one. Great idea.



#4
rollinTHUNDER

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Rt,

I have to be honest with you bro, I wish you had laid out your study for us to ponder over. I know you have one.


What? :mgcop: That's a cop out if I ever heard one, brother. :mgcop:  Hey, I thought the teacher was off for summer vacation. :hmmm:

 

 

Well, I am putting something together, and you know I'll be digging deeper, and that I swing for the upper deck.  Or, at least I did when I was younger. :laughing:

 

But this is no cinch.  It's not rapture 101.  It's much more than just saying I'm a pre, mid or post-tribber, so it will take a little longer to tie everything together.

 

So I hope you'll give it some thought and take the challenge.  I have a hunch this will get very interesting.

 

 

Cheers



#5
rollinTHUNDER

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,
 
I am looking forward to putting some notes together for this one. Great idea.


Hi Marilyn,

Looking forward to see what you come up with. I'm working on mine as well, and it's a little more work than I thought, trying to tie things together, but I'm hoping that makes this all the more interesting.


Cheers

#6
OneLight

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Feast of Trumpets - 1 & 2 Tishri
Day of Atonement - 10 Tishri
Feast of Tabernacles 15 Tishri


I am not fully agreeable one way or the other as to when He will return, but just to answer simply:

Feast of Trumpets - 1 & 2 Tishri = at the last trump 1 Corinthians 15:52
Day of Atonement - 10 Tishri = Works tried by fire (Bema seat) - 1 Corinthians 3:9-15
Feast of Tabernacles 15 Tishri = Wedding supper, or feast of the incoming/harvest

#7
Montana Marv

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The Feast of Tabernacles continues year after year during the Mill (Zech 14: 16-19)

 

In Christ

Montana Marv



#8
Montana Marv

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So it may appear that all three may not be fulfilled until after the Mill when Christ made all dominion, power and authority to be destroyed.  Then the end will come when He hands everything over to God the Father.  All has been completed.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv



#9
rollinTHUNDER

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My scenario comes from a pre-wrath perspective, but to be more specific it's actually a (post-trib/pre-wrath view).

The Fall Feasts and the Second Coming

Many Christians believe that Christ will fulfill the fall feasts (trumpets, atonement & tabernacles) when He returns, just as He fulfilled each of the spring feasts (Passover, Unleavened bread, First fruits & Pentecost) during His first advent. This not only seems plausible, but very likely I believe. If so, then we should not fail to recognize that the controversial rapture must also be included in these feasts as well, which may present problems for some of our most popular rapture theories today. Nevertheless, if Christ is going to fulfill all of the fall feasts just as He did the spring feasts, then I believe it would be very wise to understand how future end-time events will unfold in relation to these biblical fall feasts. As we begin, I think it's important to understand that just as the spring feasts were fulfilled by Christ consecutively, in order, and in the same year, we can probably safely preclude that the fall feasts will follow that same pattern.

On the feast of Passover almost 2000 years ago, Christ became the Lamb of God. He died once, for all, pouring out His blood as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. The next day, which started that evening, He was buried on the feast of Unleavened bread, after living a sinless life. Leaven represents sin, and for those who believe, He became the bread of life. After three days, He was resurrected on the feast of First fruits, so He became the first fruits of the dead. After He was resurrected, He walked with His disciples and continued to teach them for forty days, and then He ascended in the clouds back to heaven. He instructed His disciples to wait in Jerusalem, and promised them that He would send them the Holy Spirit. The tenth day after His ascension, on the feast of Weeks (Pentecost), His disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit and the Church was born, as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts. And since we know that Christ will be returning soon, many believers expect that He will likewise fulfill the fall feasts when He comes.

Colossians 2:16-17
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Many Christians believe the next major prophetic event concerning God's people will be the rapture. This glorious event will be fulfilled during Rosh Hashanah (feast of trumpets), which happens to be the first of three fall feasts. The second fall feast will be the Day of Atonement, followed lastly by the feast of Tabernacles. So with these biblical feasts in mind, let's closely examine the future end-time events to see what they will look like in relation to the feasts of the Lord. Many Christians don't believe the following passage relates to the rapture, but after much diligent study, I believe it does. I'll use it as the starting point, so let's put it under the microscope to see if it's compatible with the feasts of the Lord.

Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Verses 30 and 31 of the passage above compare very favorably to the passage below, which is widely accepted by most scholars as the rapture. People often describe things differently, but notice that in each of these passages, both of them mention the Lord descending from heaven, coming in the clouds, and the blowing of a trumpet. Additionally, the first passage mentions angels gathering His elect, while the second one shows believers being caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And finally, neither one of these passages mention anything about a physical returning to the earth or setting feet upon the Mount of Olives, so why do so many believers assume this is describing the second coming? Perhaps it doesn't fit so nicely into their theories?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Christ' disciples asked Him for the sign of His coming and of the end of the age (Matt. 24:3). Most of us know that the rapture won't have any signs, and for this reason, Christ commanded all of His followers to watch and be ready. So it's a given that the rapture will have no signs. However, when it actually happens, the rapture will then be a great sign for both, the remnant in Israel and the Jews that are still scattered among the nations. All the tribes of the earth will mourn when they see this great and glorious multitude meeting in the clouds, lighting up the dark sky. Then they will lift up their heads and know that their redemption draws near, and many of them will mourn for the one they have pierced.

Mark 13:26-27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mark adds more clarity to this gathering, (from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven). Now let's see what Luke said about this.

Luke 21:27-28
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Matthew 24:36-39
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

The verse above is so often misunderstood. Many believe the phrase, "no man knows the day or hour" is referring to the rapture. Well it does have a relationship to the rapture, but actually it is referring to Rosh Hashanah (feast of trumpets). This is the only one of the biblical feasts that does not have a set day or time to begin. The new moon sometimes does not appear until the second day, and no one knows what hour it will be seen, so this feast can not officially begin until it becomes visible. Once the first sliver of the new moon is witnessed, then 100 trumpet blasts are blown and the final blast is known as the last trump, which will signal the rapture (1 Cor. 15:52). This feast also marks the first day of the seventh month of Tishri on the Hebrew calendar, and it is always a Sabbath regardless of which day of the week it falls on.

When the sign of the Son of man appears, then another prophecy will be fulfilled as well. The rapture will also make Israel jealous of the Church, which up until now has never happened, but it will happen just as the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

Romans 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So the rapture will occur after the tribulation and after the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. Scripture tells us the beast will be given authority to continue 42 months after the abomination of desolation (Rev. 13:5). We also know that Jerusalem will be trampled by the gentiles for 42 months as well (Rev. 11:2). Furthermore, Israel will remain blinded in part until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled (Rom. 11:25). Then immediately after the tribulation the sign of the Son of man will appear (Matt. 24:29). This is precisely when these days will be shortened for the sake of the elect (Matt. 24:22), while the rest of mankind will enter into the hour of trial that will come upon the entire world to test the inhabitants of the earth (Rev. 3:10). Many believers who aren't ready will be martyred during this final hour. So the sign of the Son of man will signal the end of the times of the gentiles, and then the atonement will once again shift back to the nation of Israel. It should be noted that the Day of Atonement is 8 only days after the feast of trumpets ends.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Again, the verse above is referring to the tribes of the earth (Israel) who will mourn when they see the sign of the Son of man (rapture). Then shortly after the wedding supper in heaven (Rev. 19:1-10), the Lord will gather all nations against Jerusalem for judgment (sheep and goats/Armageddon). He will fight to protect and save Israel from the armies of the nations that will come against her. Israel will finally say, blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. Then the nations (goats) will turn to fight against the Lord, Himself, but He will utterly destroy them (Rev. 19:11-21), as He returns on the Day of atonement. This is when Israel's sins will be forgiven, on the tenth day after the feast of trumpets begins.

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Zechariah 14:1-5
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Just five days after the Day of Atonement ends, the feast of Tabernacles will begin with great rejoicing as Israel will finally be living in the presence of her long awaited Messiah. The moon will be full on the 15th day of Tishri, which will be just two weeks after the new moon appears on Rosh Hashanah (feast of trumpets). Then Israel will worship her Messiah, the King of kings and Lord of lords. And everyone from all nations will be required to come to Jerusalem and worship Him, year after year throughout the entire millennial reign of Christ.

Zechariah 14:16-17
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

I believe the feast of Tabernacles will be Christ' official coronation as the King of kings and Lord of lords. But I would not expect the millennial reign of Christ to begin immediately after the feast of Tabernacles begins, though, because Daniel said these wonders (tribulation) would end after 1290 days. Then he was told, "Blessed is he that waits, and comes to the 1335 days" (Dan. 12:12), so there are another 45 days remaining. The feast of Tabernacles would probably be 15 days after the 1290 days (1305 days), which would still leave an additional 30 days remaining. These 30 days may be necessary to cleanse the Temple, not to mention that Jerusalem and the surrounding areas would be a huge mess after the destruction brought on by Armageddon.

Conclusion:

All three of the fall feasts will occur within two weeks of each other in the month of Tishri. Tishri is the seventh month on the Hebrew calendar, and the number seven means completion and/or perfection. I believe these biblical festivals, which are God's appointed times, are going to shed a flood-light on some of these popular rapture theories. It all starts with the feast of trumpets, the feast that no one knows the day or hour.

Christ said that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah. If you recall, Noah and his family boarded the ark seven days, not seven years before God poured out His wrath in the days before the flood. God shut the door of the ark seven days before the flood waters came. Noah's family represents Christians being rescued from God's wrath, and it may very well be that those seven days are the same days that will be shortened for the sake of the elect, as Christ said, otherwise, no flesh would be saved. And I believe the Christian's who are not ready when the Son of man appears, they are the same saints that will be overcome by the beast (Rev. 13:7). And Christ also said that His coming would be like it was in the days of Lot. So let's see what He meant by both of these in the passages below.

Luke 17:26-27
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

I believe the passage above represents the rapture, when Noah and his family were rescued before God poured out His wrath. But did you notice the clues that followed? They ate and drank, they married and were given in marriage. All of these are simple clues hinting at the wedding supper in heaven for those who are ready. Now let's see what He said about the days of Lot in the passage below.

Luke 17:28-29
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

The parable of the days of Noah represents the rapture, but the parable of the days of Lot does not. Christ' second coming will be like it was in the days of Lot. The very same day that Lot and his family left Sodom and fled to the city of Zoar, fire and brimstone rained down from heaven and destroyed Sodom. Lot and his family represent Israel, who will flee to the valley after the Lord splits the Mount of Olives in two, just as they fled from the earthquake in the days of king Uzziah (Zech. 14:4-5).

I think it's so fascinating how the Lord hid so many clues in such a short parable. In the parable of Noah, He gave us clues about the wedding supper for His servants who are ready. But in the parable of Lot, we still see the same eating/drinking again, but then it's different. Instead of marrying and given in marriage, we now find they bought and sold, they planted, and they builded. Interestingly, this shows that while the wedding supper was occurring in heaven for those who were ready (eating and drinking), now in the days of Lot we see buying and selling, which hints at the mark of the beast for those servants who were not ready. They planted as well, because they won't be able to buy and sell without the mark of the beast in those days. And finally, they builded (past tense), which shows the third Temple was built on Israel's part. And we know Israel will flee to the valley when her Messiah's feet touch down on the mount of Olives, splitting it in two.

But the most fascinating thing to me, is that Christ has told us everything, even putting it into chronological order in Matthew chapters 24 and 25, and yet most believers still can't see it, even after almost 2000 years. We know that Israel will be blinded in part until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled. But it seems so ironic that the Church does not even realize that she has been blinded as well, because she does not understand the festivals of the Lord, which are God's appointed times. God's Word tells us that history is designed to repeat. And I fear that many of His children will not be ready when the Son of man appears in the clouds, just as Israel wasn't ready and missed her time of visitation. Oh Lord, please help us to open our spiritual eyes.

#10
fire-heart

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I dont think the rapture will occure on those feast days i doubt he would make it that easy to predict him appearing out of nowhere and snatching his bride. I do have reason to suspect a biblical event will happen on them though



#11
rollinTHUNDER

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I dont think the rapture will occure on those feast days i doubt he would make it that easy to predict him appearing out of nowhere and snatching his bride. I do have reason to suspect a biblical event will happen on them though


Hi fire-heart,

You lead me to believe that it is easy to know the day and hour. So come on out with it then, and tell us when you think it will be. :brightidea:

Paul said, But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write to you, for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

When they start talking peace and safety, then we know that destruction will come on them as a woman in travail (birth pains), now think abomination of desolation (Matt. 24:15). But we are not in darkness that that day should over take us as a thief. This is why Christ gave us the signs, for when we see them we will know that it is near, even right at the door. He did not give us the signs so we won't know, but rather He wants us to know when the time is near.

But we still will not know the day and hour, even when we know we are in the season (year). No one will know the day or hour, no one. It is un-knowable. But we should not think that we are in the same darkness as unbelievers. The signs and seasons are for us, the children of light, and we are not appointed to wrath.


Cheers



#12
fire-heart

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I dont think the rapture will occure on those feast days i doubt he would make it that easy to predict him appearing out of nowhere and snatching his bride. I do have reason to suspect a biblical event will happen on them though


Hi fire-heart,

You lead me to believe that it is easy to know the day and hour. So come on out with it then, and tell us when you think it will be. :brightidea:

Paul said, But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write to you, for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

When they start talking peace and safety, then we know that destruction will come on them as a woman in travail (birth pains), now think abomination of desolation (Matt. 24:15). But we are not in darkness that that day should over take us as a thief. This is why Christ gave us the signs, for when we see them we will know that it is near, even right at the door. He did not give us the signs so we won't know, but rather He wants us to know when the time is near.

But we still will not know the day and hour, even when we know we are in the season (year). No one will know the day or hour, no one. It is un-knowable. But we should not think that we are in the same darkness as unbelievers. The signs and seasons are for us, the children of light, and we are not appointed to wrath.


Cheers

 

I dont know when it will happen but its not very predictable at all. Jesus said he will come like a theif in the night and in all my rapture dreams I was taken out of nowhere suddenly and without without warning. in one of them I was just going for a walk [ i go on walks a lot] When in a split second I was taken to heaven.

 

Its possible it may not happen this year but the signs indicate he is coming very soon. The blood moon tetrads are a huge indication that he is going to take us very soon. I also do not believe the rapture is the second coming as he does not come to us we go to him.



#13
rollinTHUNDER

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I dont think the rapture will occure on those feast days i doubt he would make it that easy to predict him appearing out of nowhere and snatching his bride. I do have reason to suspect a biblical event will happen on them though


Hi fire-heart,

You lead me to believe that it is easy to know the day and hour. So come on out with it then, and tell us when you think it will be. :brightidea:

Paul said, But of the times and seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write to you, for yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

When they start talking peace and safety, then we know that destruction will come on them as a woman in travail (birth pains), now think abomination of desolation (Matt. 24:15). But we are not in darkness that that day should over take us as a thief. This is why Christ gave us the signs, for when we see them we will know that it is near, even right at the door. He did not give us the signs so we won't know, but rather He wants us to know when the time is near.

But we still will not know the day and hour, even when we know we are in the season (year). No one will know the day or hour, no one. It is un-knowable. But we should not think that we are in the same darkness as unbelievers. The signs and seasons are for us, the children of light, and we are not appointed to wrath.


Cheers

I dont know when it will happen but its not very predictable at all. Jesus said he will come like a theif in the night and in all my rapture dreams I was taken out of nowhere suddenly and without without warning. in one of them I was just going for a walk [ i go on walks a lot] When in a split second I was taken to heaven.
 
Its possible it may not happen this year but the signs indicate he is coming very soon. The blood moon tetrads are a huge indication that he is going to take us very soon.


Hi fire-heart,

Agreed, nothing will be predictable until after the feast of trumpets, which no man knows the day or hour.

It is the Day of the Lord that will come like a thief in the night. When you read that He will come like a thief, He is referring to the Day of the Lord's wrath. This is not the rapture or the sign of the Son of man. It will occur ten days after on the Day of Atonement, when He returns to destroy those nations that come against Jerusalem. This is where He will separate the sheep and goats, whereas the goats will be destroyed and the sheep will be the survivors from the nations who will enter into the millennium in mortal bodies and be ruled over by Christ and His saints.



I also do not believe the rapture is the second coming as he does not come to us we go to him.


I partially agree here. I do not believe the rapture is the second coming to the earth either. However, in the rapture, He will meet us halfway, where we will meet Him in the clouds and in the air.


Cheers

#14
fire-heart

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RollinThunder Jesus said all these signs would take place before the great and terrible day of the Lord He mention in mathew 24 but notice how he said how two ppl would be working in the field how one will be taken another left. he said when he comes back it will be like the days of noah how ppl will be drinking laughing and partying when t he son of man comes. Now one could easily see his coming as his second coming except for one major thing- his second coming involves him ending the tribulation and beginning the 1000 year ruling on earth but in mathew 24 he mentions how ppl would be drinking marrying and partying when he suddenly appears.

 

this does not sound like the tribulation at all- the tribulation is going to be the most horrific event ever to hit the earth so I highly doubt ppl will be drinking marrying and partying and he mentions at least three times in mathew 24 how he will come suddenly out of nowhere.

 

So its a bit confusing but mathew 24 speaks of him coming to take us and the day of the Lord as two seperate events. The prophecies in the old testament like ezekiel or Jeremiah speak in great detail of the day of the Lord and in none of them do they ever speak of how he will pour his wrath on Gods faithful ones but speaks plenty of how angry he is on the arrogent prideful and evil ppl and speaks plenty on him pouring his wrath on them so this must mean something must have happened to the faithful one as they arent mentioned



#15
rollinTHUNDER

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RollinThunder Jesus said all these signs would take place before the great and terrible day of the Lord He mention in mathew 24 but notice how he said how two ppl would be working in the field how one will be taken another left. he said when he comes back it will be like the days of noah how ppl will be drinking laughing and partying when t he son of man comes. Now one could easily see his coming as his second coming except for one major thing- his second coming involves him ending the tribulation and beginning the 1000 year ruling on earth but in mathew 24 he mentions how ppl would be drinking marrying and partying when he suddenly appears.
 
this does not sound like the tribulation at all- the tribulation is going to be the most horrific event ever to hit the earth so I highly doubt ppl will be drinking marrying and partying and he mentions at least three times in mathew 24 how he will come suddenly out of nowhere.


In Matt. 24 Christ mentions the great tribulation, but He did not say much about what it would be like. Instead He was focused on answering His disciples question about the sign of His coming, and of the end of the age (Matt. 24:3). After telling them about the sign of the Son of man, that is when He mentions about sending the angels to gather His elect. Many debate who the elect are, some say it's Israel, others say it the Church. Christ never told us plainly who the elect are, however, He gave several parables instead that contain many clues about who the elect are. Most people stop at the end of chapter 24, but that is only half of His answer. He continues all the way through chapter 25, adding the parable of ten virgins and the parable of talents, which also provide clues for who His elect are.  Don't take every detail literally, for they are only parables, but they contain a wealth of clues.

Then finally, He concludes His answer about the sign of the end of the age, when He will gather all nations for judgment (sheep and goats - Matt.25:31-46). He will kill the goats, so this is the Day of the Lord, Armageddon, and the second coming.
 

So its a bit confusing but mathew 24 speaks of him coming to take us and the day of the Lord as two seperate events. The prophecies in the old testament like ezekiel or Jeremiah speak in great detail of the day of the Lord and in none of them do they ever speak of how he will pour his wrath on Gods faithful ones but speaks plenty of how angry he is on the arrogent prideful and evil ppl and speaks plenty on him pouring his wrath on them so this must mean something must have happened to the faithful one as they arent mentioned


It only gets confusing when they teach that Matt. 24 is the second coming, but that's only reading half of Christ' answer. The Day of the Lord is not in Matt. 24. It's at the end of chapter 25:31-46. According to scripture, Christ can not return and judge the nations first, because He must first judge the house of the Lord (1 Peter 4:17-18). So all of the parables you see before the sheep and goat judgment of the nations, they are about gathering the elect (judging/rewarding) His servants.

1 Peter 4:17-18
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now “If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

Revelation 22:12
And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. (goats/Armageddon)
 
Hope that helps.
 
 
Cheers

#16
Marilyn C

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,

 

I agree with a lot you have said concerning the feasts. I have just a short summary here of what I believe.

 

THE FEASTS

 

The 7 Feasts given to Israel are a complete prophetic overview of God`s dealings & purposes. Each one presents Christ in His person & work.

 

(1. Feast of Passover - Christ is Redeemer. 2. Feast of Fruit Fruits - Christ is Resurrection & Life. 3. Feasts of Weeks (Pentecost) - Christ is Regenerator.)

 

The fulfilment of these three was necessary for the establishment of the Body of Christ while the next three require the fulfilment for Christ`s Rulership through Israel in the Millennium Kingdom.

 

(4. Feast of Trumpets. 5. The Day of Atonement. 6. Feast of Tabernacles)      (7. Sabbath feast)

 

 

These Feasts were rehearsals of God`s appointed times that Christ would fulfil.

 

 

The Feast of Trumpets - was a rehearsal for the time when Israel would humble themselves as a nation & repent from their National rebellion against God. This would lead them into the Day of Atonement.

 

 

The Day of Atonement - This is the time when Christ would come & give `atonement` & cleansing for the nation of Israel - the land, the people & the holy place.  God told Moses of this event -

 

`He will avenge the blood of His servants, & He will render vengeance on His adversaries, He will ATONE for HIS LAND & HIS PEOPLE.`  (Deut. 32: 43)

 

 

And Daniel was told by God the time of this event -

 

`Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people & your holy city, to finish the transgression, to seal up sin, to make ATONEMENT for iniquity (Israel`s national rebellion)......` (Dan. 9: 24)

 

 

 

The enactment of this Atonement was when the High Priest would take the censor filled with fire & incense into the Holy of Holies with the blood from the sacrificial altar & sprinkle it before the mercy seat on the ark, seeking the Lord for Israel National forgiveness.  (Lev. 16: 12 - 17       17: 11)

 

 

Thus we see Christ represented in angelic form, standing at the golden altar with the golden censor.  (Rev. 8: 3) The Day of Atonement  is about to begin but first Israel needs to seek repentance. Thus the 7 Trumpets - complete & final call to Israel`s repentance - goes out through out the tribulation.  (Rev. 8: 6 ff)

 

 

Finally the Lord Himself, the great High Priest & King of Kings comes forth in Power & great glory to deliver & cleanse Israel - its people, its land & its Holy Place. (Rev. 19: 11) He also brings judgment upon His enemies. The great Day of Atonement has arrived & the feast of Tabernacles can soon begin. The time of rejoicing throughout the Millennium for God will `dwell/Tabernacle` with His people.  (Zech. 14: 16 ff)



#17
rollinTHUNDER

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Hi rollinTHUNDER,
 
I agree with a lot you have said concerning the feasts. I have just a short summary here of what I believe.
 
THE FEASTS
 
The 7 Feasts given to Israel are a complete prophetic overview of God`s dealings & purposes. Each one presents Christ in His person & work.
 
(1. Feast of Passover - Christ is Redeemer. 2. Feast of Fruit Fruits - Christ is Resurrection & Life. 3. Feasts of Weeks (Pentecost) - Christ is Regenerator.)
 
The fulfilment of these three was necessary for the establishment of the Body of Christ while the next three require the fulfilment for Christ`s Rulership through Israel in the Millennium Kingdom.
 
(4. Feast of Trumpets. 5. The Day of Atonement. 6. Feast of Tabernacles)      (7. Sabbath feast)
 
 
These Feasts were rehearsals of God`s appointed times that Christ would fulfil.
 
 
The Feast of Trumpets - was a rehearsal for the time when Israel would humble themselves as a nation & repent from their National rebellion against God. This would lead them into the Day of Atonement.
 
 
The Day of Atonement - This is the time when Christ would come & give `atonement` & cleansing for the nation of Israel - the land, the people & the holy place.  God told Moses of this event -
 
`He will avenge the blood of His servants, & He will render vengeance on His adversaries, He will ATONE for HIS LAND & HIS PEOPLE.`  (Deut. 32: 43)
 
 
And Daniel was told by God the time of this event -
 
`Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people & your holy city, to finish the transgression, to seal up sin, to make ATONEMENT for iniquity (Israel`s national rebellion)......` (Dan. 9: 24)
 
 
 
The enactment of this Atonement was when the High Priest would take the censor filled with fire & incense into the Holy of Holies with the blood from the sacrificial altar & sprinkle it before the mercy seat on the ark, seeking the Lord for Israel National forgiveness.  (Lev. 16: 12 - 17       17: 11)
 
 
Thus we see Christ represented in angelic form, standing at the golden altar with the golden censor.  (Rev. 8: 3) The Day of Atonement  is about to begin but first Israel needs to seek repentance. Thus the 7 Trumpets - complete & final call to Israel`s repentance - goes out through out the tribulation.  (Rev. 8: 6 ff)
 
 
Finally the Lord Himself, the great High Priest & King of Kings comes forth in Power & great glory to deliver & cleanse Israel - its people, its land & its Holy Place. (Rev. 19: 11) He also brings judgment upon His enemies. The great Day of Atonement has arrived & the feast of Tabernacles can soon begin. The time of rejoicing throughout the Millennium for God will `dwell/Tabernacle` with His people.  (Zech. 14: 16 ff)


Hi Marilyn,

Good information, but you forgot one.  I guess we caught the teacher in a rare moment of weakness. :grin: 

Spring Feasts
Passover
Unleavened bread
First fruits
Pentecost (weeks)

Fall Feasts

Trumpets

Day of Atonement

Tabernacles

 

But I still give you an A- for great effort. :mgcheerful: Thanks for sharing your thoughts, even though you did not share any of your beliefs or how you think these feasts will be fulfilled.

 

 

Cheers



#18
rollinTHUNDER

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Anyone else want to take the challenge to see how your theory lines up with the fall feasts?



#19
Marilyn C

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Oh you are too too kind rollinTHUNDER, :mgcheerful:

 

The `Feast of unleavened bread,` I tend to put with the Passover. But you are so right & keep us on track. Great discussion bro. :thumbsup:

 

Oh just read the next part of your reply, (I must admit I so skim read & obviously I miss some. (Whoops)

 

 

So you didn`t get my beliefs on how these fall feasts will be fulfilled.

 

1. I said the first 3 were necessary for the establishment of the Body of Christ,  (pre-trib)

 

2. while the next 3 require the fulfilment for Christ`s Rulership through Israel in the Millennium Kingdom. (trib -> Mill)

 

 

Hope that is clearer.



#20
rollinTHUNDER

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Oh you are too too kind rollinTHUNDER, :mgcheerful:
 
The `Feast of unleavened bread,` I tend to put with the Passover. But you are so right & keep us on track. Great discussion bro. :thumbsup:
 
Oh just read the next part of your reply, (I must admit I so skim read & obviously I miss some. (Whoops)


Don't feel bad, Marilyn. I just edited my scenario and it was a mess.
 
 

So you didn`t get my beliefs on how these fall feasts will be fulfilled.
 
1. I said the first 3 were necessary for the establishment of the Body of Christ,  (pre-trib)
 
2. while the next 3 require the fulfilment for Christ`s Rulership through Israel in the Millennium Kingdom. (trib -> Mill)
 
 
Hope that is clearer.


Not at all and I still don't get it. Pre-trib is usually used by those who think the rapture will occur before Daniel's 70th week. What you have here I would call pre-church.

I think I get #2, but this makes me wonder if you even believe in the rapture at all. I know that there are some that don't. Do you have a position on this? Thanks


Cheers




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