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Question About Mysteries

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#1
Cog

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Jesus spoke in parables to conceal mysteries from some people. Angels gave understandings of mysteries to some people, with explicit instructions to tell no one. And it is my belief that, still to this day, God reveals mysteries to those who seek.

 

 

I understand God's, and angels', rights, abilities of discernment, and concerns to keep mysteries concealed, but what about everyone else?

 

That is:

 

What right have we to share revealed knowledge of God?

 

How do we know who to share understandings with? (considering Matthew 7:6 and the actions of God and angels)

 

Do we even have the right to explain parables, much less the more hidden understandings?

 

Thoughts?


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#2
Floatingaxe

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We all as co-heirs with Christ have been given the mysteries of the Kingdom---not just some of us.

 

Matthew 13:11(NLT)

He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not.

 

Luke 8:10 (NLT)

He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets of the Kingdom of God. But I use parables to teach the others so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled:

 

‘When they look, they won’t really see.

    When they hear, they won’t understand.’

 

 

We not only have the right to declare them---we have the obligation to do so, so that those who live in darkness will come into the light of Christ. Wisdom that the Lord gives us prompts us concerning when and to whom we are to be quiet, and when and to whom we must open our mouths.


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#3
Cog

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Hello Floatingaxe

To me, the difficulty of my above questions arise from my heart, as I cannot see anyone a dog or swine or anyone who should be denied a clear message. I see everyone as innocent because they do not know better.

 

Luke 23:34

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.


Yet still, God conceals his wisdom, and has commanded not to cast pearls, and if we follow his behavior, it seems that we should not go around being a blabber mouth, but then where are the swine? I do not see them.

 

Further, what I have come to know, I do not see others speaking about clearly, but there has to be others who understand God as I do, thus they must be concealing what they know.

 

And so I am torn. I want to help everyone, but not if it makes me disobedient. And then again, I can't just do nothing because I will be spat out, if I do, but then I think to myself again...

 

Surely Peter, and others, knew how to properly convey the Trinity, what the keys to heaven are, what the church actually is, and other mysteries, but they did not, and so they must be concealing what they know.

 

I can see how it all demands faith, and I surely know the importance of faith, but I can't understand this concealing when I cannot see that anyone would be evil if they understood Father.


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#4
Floatingaxe

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God's wisdom is not elusive to His children, but abundant---nor are the mysteries of His kingdom. It is for us to convey the gospel message and to teach the truth of the word as revealed to us by God. As for the mention of swine, these people are those who are at variance with the truth and are not receptive to the gospel of Jesus Christ. We are instructed to watch out for these types who are completely rebellious and averse to God, that we don't become worn out or even hurt by such people. Jesus Himself told His disciples to walk away, brush the dust off their feet and leave the towns where the message of truth is spurned.

 

Mark 6:11 (NLT)

But if any place refuses to welcome you or listen to you, shake its dust from your feet as you leave to show that you have abandoned those people to their fate.”


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#5
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Cog The deep and hidden secrets of God are hidden for a good reason. the bible for instance hold vast power and secrets that are only revealed to those whose hearts are full of love and desire God more than air because if god gave these to aperson who would misuse it that would be throwing away great treasures. believe it or not there are many who would not hesitate to use such things for their own selfish gain they could care less about serving God and have no fear of him.

 

this is the meaning of not throwing our pearls before swine. but if we know the hidden deep secrets of God its all the more reason to share it because it may change someones life and even if a cold selfish heart heard it they would not be able to understand as it would be hidden from them thus Jesus said though hearing they would not hear and though seeing they would not see


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#6
FresnoJoe

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....What right have we to share revealed knowledge of God....

 

:thumbsup:

 

By What Right? 

 

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

 

Do We Have To Hide? 

 

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19-20

 

The Revealed Knowledge Of God?

 

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Matthew 10:27


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#7
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Thanks all.

fire-heart, you are probably right. I didn't consider the dangers, as I do not seek that sort of thing (not saying you do). I mean, it did not even occur to me.

FresnoJoe, you pretty much nailed what I was asking about speaking what you have been told. Not only are we told it is okay to tell others but we are pretty much commanded to.

Oh one more thing though, and this I guess is speculative: Why did the apostles not speak more about the mysteries? The reason I ask is because I can see how knowing more about the mysteries would really help people understand this life, and through that, it would help bring them closer to God...

Here's where my thinking comes from: After I was given some understandings I happened upon a video about Kabbalah, and it shocked me. I had no idea that Jews had understandings of Father as I recieved them. Not only that, but their understanding is very close to what was given to me, byway of reading the Bible and praying to understand. My point being, I think because they do not accept Jesus that their understanding is lacking and misunderstood, and if they understood Jesus they might reconcile with Christianity easier because they already understand Father, fairly well, in my opinion. Again, it was shocking because it was as if I learned the principles of the Kabbalah by praying for understanding of the New Testiment. And therein lies my question: why don't people speak of deeper understandings (not the dangerous ones) of God as given to them. If only they did.

Edited by Cog, 13 July 2014 - 10:45 AM.

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#8
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Cog there is something you must understand,The mysteries and secrets of God are actually in front of our eyes. The apostles did in fact teach these things in fact thats all they taught, those teaching of love patience how to live a holy life wisdom praising God in the worst of times knowing who Christ is who we are to him what we have for us at the end of the road and understanding the true value of Grace- these are the deep and secret mysteries of God. If you want to know the secrets of God you have to be looking for the true secrets,god gave us the secrets in his word.


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#9
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Colossians 4:3-6

 

1 Timothy 3:9

 

I am not saying that they did not know, nor am I saying they did not speak about them at all - what I am saying is that when they actually did speak of them, they usually concealed them. See my first sentence in my post to see my usage of "conceal".

 

My original question is basically: what can we say and who can we say it to? And it has been answered to a degree.

 

And yes the answers are all around us but they have been concealed. I think that if Adam and Eve could have seen clearly, they would have never turned away to look at the tree which promised easy understanding. And I know it is for faith, and faith is its own lesson, yet still: and though I do enjoy this sort of quest I am on, maybe it could be a little easier if everyone spoke the same "language"? And yeah, I get it, all these different languages are the same "language": faith. Still though - its hard when it is concealed.


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#10
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Colossians 4:3-6

 

1 Timothy 3:9

 

I am not saying that they did not know, nor am I saying they did not speak about them at all - what I am saying is that when they actually did speak of them, they usually concealed them. See my first sentence in my post to see my usage of "conceal".

 

My original question is basically: what can we say and who can we say it to? And it has been answered to a degree.

 

And yes the answers are all around us but they have been concealed. I think that if Adam and Eve could have seen clearly, they would have never turned away to look at the tree which promised easy understanding. And I know it is for faith, and faith is its own lesson, yet still: and though I do enjoy this sort of quest I am on, maybe it could be a little easier if everyone spoke the same "language"? And yeah, I get it, all these different languages are the same "language": faith. Still though - its hard when it is concealed.

yes it is concealed for many reasons one of which I spoke of about the dangers of a selfisg gain kind of person but in this world things are not just handed to you and in the kingdom of God you must work to gain as well. God knew the Good hard work does nd thats probably one of the reasons he concealed these things.


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#11
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Where to begin. There are a lot of questions or subtopics, in this topic. I don't think I will fully engage this one, but will toss a few thoughts in.

 

First off, dogs, swine etc, Whether you see them that way or not, is not really relevant. Each one of us rebels against God, and each one of us commits evil and deserves nothing good from God or His people. Apart from God's actions, we would all go to Hell, which is what we deserve.

 

However, we do not share good things with people because they deserve it, instead they can receive actions of love and grace, because of their great need, and God is merciful and loves the world enough to send His Son to die for us. All believers are commanded to share the Gospel with all who will listen.

 

End of thought one.

 

Mysteries.

 

Mysteries are things formerly hidden, now revealed. Mysteries are not secret, hidden things, they are revealed things. Chances are that you know nothing, that has not been publicized.  The bible is a publshed (made public) work, a record of what God want's mankind to know about Him and His love and His plan.

 

Secrets, are something else, mysteries are former secrets. Are there secrets? Sure, and we cannot reveal those, because we do not know them, that is what makes them secrets. Some of these secrets are secrets for some people, and are mysteries (having been revealed) to others, or secrets for some time to be mysteries (revealed) in the future.

 

End of second thought.

 

God is capable of keeping secrets and even the secrets for some ears, are revealed to others. Unbelievers do not have God's Spirit, and it is impossible for those without the Spirit, to understand the things of God, they are Spiritually (not intellectually) discerned. You can speak the most critical message in the world (the Gospel) to an unbeliever until you are blue in the face, and although He might understand what your words mean, he will not understand with his heart, unless God has chosen that person, to receive His truths.

Not all are chosen. Some will balk at my Calvinism showing, but this is just Bible, not some doctrine of men. Men's hearts are hardened, only God can soften them. Therefore, you need not worry about revealing secrets, God can keep them even if you are a blabbermouth. 

 

End of thought three, and probably my final thought for this thread. but I may be back, who can say?


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#12
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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

My original question is basically: what can we say and who can we say it to? And it has been answered to a degree.


If you pay attention to the leading of the Holy Spirit, you will know who to say what to.


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#13
john14:6

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Cog,

Will you please take a few minutes to explain, as you stated in post #3, what it is that you have come to know about understanding God, about how to properly convey the Trinity, what the keys to heaven are, and what the church actually is? Please do that and please be specific about your knowledge & understanding of those 4 things you have come to know & understand.

If you will do this I think it will help me to better understand what it is you are asking in you OP. Please do not just repeat or restate your thoughts/ideas in your OP.

thanks,

John
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#14
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john14:6, I was trying to say that Peter, and others, recieved knowledge of mysteries and that they must have knew how to properly convey some of the mysteries that they had been taught. The fact that they concealed them shows me that they weren't meant to tell others about mysteries openly. https://www.biblegat...-19&version=KJV As for how to convey the keys to the kingdom, I have no idea, but surely Peter did? I mean, I do not even understand the basics of that mystery. It is a total mystery to me. Binding on earth and in heaven? Loose on earth and in heaven? No idea - None. As for the Trinity, I have already told you that and I hinted at church well enough.
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#15
john14:6

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Cog, sorry about that, I should have been more careful about reading post #3. I do have some things that I hope you can help me to better understand.

In your quote from post #37, Worthy Welcome Forum, Hello-I Seek Revelation, you said “Trinity is mind, body, and spirit of God.”

And,

In your quote from this thread in post #3, you said “Further, what I have come to know, I do not see others speaking about clearly, but there has to be others who understand God as I do, thus they must be concealing what they know.”

Could you please explain and/or elaborate on 2 things to help me understand what it is you have come to know.

1. Please explain what you know about God.
2. Please elaborate on your definition of the Trinity being mind, body, and spirit of God. Can you give supporting scripture for that definition?

Thanks again,

John


Edited by john14:6, 14 July 2014 - 03:36 PM.

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#16
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john14:6

1. You are asking too much of me.

2. I don't have the verses set to memory so much so that I can just list the book and verses but there are many. When John says Jesus is the Word, when Jesus says eat of this bread for it is my body, when Paul says something similar to Jesus being the image of the invisible God and the first born of all creatures, etc and so forth, they are all saying Jesus is logos. He is the body of us all, even the Godhead, bodily.

When you read about God's Spirit, he is always always doing / producing something. And again, I do not remember verses and dates and such things as that. However, some things that come to mind is: in Gen 1 you can see that it is God's Spirit who is moving across the face of the waters. The Spirit is said to be the comforter and that too is a function of will -- it is belonging to Spirit. And then there are many more verses because I have seen that almost every time Spirit is mention he is doing something. It is will, and his heart is the desire of will or Spirit.

When you see reference to Father, you always see that it is his ideas, his creation, he is "I am, who I am", he is the Head of Christ, he is Father, the one who translates, etc and so forth.

Now, I could pick out some verses with a quick search, but my friend, you can do that too. Just search for Son, Image, body, I am, Father, Holy Ghost, Jesus, Light, or some of the other phrases I have used here, etc... it is there for you to see.

----

So, what do you think it means he is in us and we are in him? What light is in us? Mental images? The image of our thoughts? Is Jesus then the image of God's thoughts? What thinks? Is it the soul or eternal mind? What manifests? Is it the Spirit which does work?

And all that is just the basics. You still have to understand how they all work together and why they are one... and that is in the other thread, at least in part, but here is more:

You are soul, spirit, and body, and if you know yourself, you know that your soul / awareness translates, the spirit manifests, and the body is the image or what is translated as to be manifest. Then you can also see that the awareness is made of the body of the ideas...

Just as you will not be aware of the idea, of, for example, the number 3, until I teach you that idea (you will not know that it is anything more than a squiggly line, unless you do not know what a squiggly line is), and so 3 is the body and the image of the idea and its function is its "spirit". And more, the spirit is needed for the idea just as the body, and vice versa for all. And this is why you cannot seperate them, only make distinctions. But even then, when you see the distinctions you will notice that even within those distinctions they are all still present. (Side note: of this, the hardest distinction to make, for me, is between the Soul and Spirit, but then Jesus' truth is sharp enough to split them. For me, I cannot see clearly enough to understand how we can properly make the distinction - it is hard to see where soul ends and spirit begins.)

-----

Reality is the mind of God, made manifest by the Spirit of God, and made visible by the Word of God.

And I know it is not very complex but it is a completely different perspective and that is what is hard to come to understand; yet that is exactly what the Bible is hinting at when it kepts using the same analogies / parables over and over.

-----

Think about these very simple questions: Does God think? Does he have ideas? Is it not his idea to create this reality?

If he was not trying to transfer his ideas to us, would he bother giving us lessons, or giving us his Word for learning by?

Are all of these words in this post not used to transfer my ideas to you? Did I not use my spirit, or will, to manifest them into words, so as to add to your awareness?

Go look around outside... is everything not bodies of ideas - the things that you see, feel, hear, and smell? The things sensed, are they not bodies? Images of ideas manifest through will?
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#17
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When you see reference to Father, you always see that it is his ideas, his creation, he is "I am, who I am", he is the Head of Christ, he is Father, the one who translates, etc and so forth.

"I an, who I am" is the God of Israel in the Old Testament....    The book of Exodus tells us that Moses, Aaron and 72 other people went up and saw the God of Israel.....    noted his feet so we know they saw him in bodily form and noted of eating and drinking so we know it was not a vision.

 

Yet, Jesus tells us that no one has ever seen the Father.....   so you either need to accept a serious discrepancy between Jesus and Moses's writings or come to the conclusion that the God of Israel in the old testament was not the Father.

 

John tells us that Jesus was in the form of God before he set that all aside and took the form of a man.....   Jesus also told the Jews when they were criticizing him that before Abraham Was.......   I AM...             So I would say that Jesus himself is what Moses considered God.

 

The three of them (Father, Jesus and Spirit)  are one......    when you've been married for 44 years, it's easier to grasp what that means.


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#18
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Yet, Jesus tells us that no one has ever seen the Father....

I would not dare say what God looked like, not even Jesus, as God looks like what he wants.

I am trying to get you to understand the ideas, the perspective, just as I showed with the number 3 analogy.

John 14:9

I'm trying to get you to see that the image is the image of the idea. The idea is not seen - my words you see, my ideas you do not. These words are the image of my ideas.

If we are to ever see Father, we would need the awareness. Just as in the analogy of 3, you will not and cannot see a 3 until you understand the idea of the number 3. Until then, you will see only a squiggly line.

Exodus 3:14

Acts 7:31-32

And I said God is one and went into detail about it even. Maybe you missed it?

But basically, you are saying Yahweh, Father, is not the God of Abraham?

Edited by Cog, 15 July 2014 - 06:51 PM.

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#19
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Yet, Jesus tells us that no one has ever seen the Father....

I would not dare say what God looked like, not even Jesus, as God looks like what he wants.

I am trying to get you to understand the ideas, the perspective, just as I showed with the number 3 analogy.

John 14:9

I'm trying to get you to see that the image is the image of the idea. The idea is not seen - my words you see, my ideas you do not. These words are the image of my ideas.

If we are to ever see Father, we would need the awareness. Just as in the analogy of 3, you will not and cannot see a 3 until you understand the idea of the number 3. Until then, you will see only a squiggly line.

Exodus 3:14

Acts 7:31-32

And I said God is one and went into detail about it even. Maybe you missed it?

But basically, you are saying Yahweh, Father, is not the God of Abraham?

 

and I'm trying to get you to understand that they are three entities all working together to accomplish something here.....    It doesn't matter to me whether or not Jesus looks like the Father......       and Yes I am saying that Jesus is Yahweh not the Father....   Yahweh is the God of Israel that the 74 people saw and it was not the Father because no one has seen the Father.


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#20
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I think that in your mind you have seperated them, where I wouldn't. Jesus is the body of us all. He is the light of all mankind and the image of the invisible God and body of the Godhead. He is the Word. numerous verses but all the same idea. The Holy Ghost is our spirit is Father's spirit is Jesus' spirit. He is spirit and when we die, the breath that is the spirit of us, returns to God, because truly, it is his Spirit. Ecclesiastes 3:19-21, Ecclesiastes 12:7 Same idea with the soul, to Father - they're all his. Ezekiel 18:4 Can you explain to me how soul, spirit, and body work together?
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