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Mormon Deification

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#1
Agape Apologetics

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Who came first, a god or a man?

Mormonism asserts that the universe, men, and gods are all eternal (1). If man has always been, and some men have always been progressing into godhood: What came first, a god or a man? If a man was first, who made the man? A god? If a god came first, then from what did he progress in this eternal progression of gods? It’s easy to see that not only do the false doctrines of Mormonism have no scriptural support; they are philosophically fallacious as well. Next are two quotes explaining the Mormon teaching on the deification of humanity and plurality of gods.

>“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” (2)

>"Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you." (3)

Now let’s break down the logical implications that arise if in fact god was a once a man, and man can become gods. If God was not always God, and was once a man as Mormonism teaches. Who then came first, a god or a man? If a man came first, who created that man if not a god? If a god came first, than where did that god come from if in fact gods are exalted men?

>If we hold to Mormon teachings about the source and nature of ‘gods’, we see a logical fallacy unfold. The only explanation that lines up with reality is that of an uncaused being who has existed always without time. One must not come to this conclusion based on their understanding or presumptions. We must allow Gods Word to mold our views.

>Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

>James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

>The ideal of a plethora of gods who attained godhood through exaltation is not coherent. As far back as you wish to continue to proceed, you must answer this. Who came first, a god or a man? Neither logic nor any Mormon can answer this question.

>The Bible is clear on the subject in these Scriptures.

>"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10

(Deut. 6:4-5, Ps. 86:10, Isa. 44:8, Isa. 45:5, Isaiah 45:18, Isa. 45:21, Isa. 45:22, Isa. 46:9, Mal. 2:10, Mk. 12:29, Mk. 12:32, 1 Cor. 8:4, Gal. 3:20, 1 Tim. 2:5, James 2:19.)

G.J.E. Eccles 7/8/14

(1) (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.250, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)
(2) ( The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.)
(3) (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 346, Deseret Book, 2006.See also, the first edition of the official History of the Church, vol. VI, ch. XIII, pp. 300-307, published by Deseret News, 1912.)

**Link removed**


Edited by ncn, 12 July 2014 - 10:28 AM.
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#2
FresnoJoe

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Truth

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

 

It's What's

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

For Dinner

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. John 15:16

 

~

 

Who came first, a god or a man?

 

~

 

Beloved, Who?

 

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

 

God?

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

A

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

Man?

 

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

 

How About That....

 

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16


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#3
Agape Apologetics

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Absolutely Fresno Joe! God is the only God! Man can never become a god!!


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#4
kwikphilly

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Blessings Agape Apologetics

    Welcome to Worthy.....I must say,this is one of the more ridiculous & non-sensical things I have heard in a while.....I suppose the devil can convince some people of anything........................

 

4 When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments, or you will become as foolish as they are. 5 When arguing with fools, be sure to answer their foolish arguments, or they will become wise in their own estimation                                                                           Proverbs 26:4-5

                                                                                                                                                            With love-in Christ,Kwik


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#5
FresnoJoe

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No

 

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: Acts 10:34

 

Man

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

~

 

God is the only God!

 

Man can never become a god!!

 

~

 

Amen~!

 

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

And

 

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:5-9

 

Amen~!

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

 

~

 

From

Ed’s Five Minutes with a Mormon

 

THREE

 

The Law of Eternal Progression

 

Can you help me understand this core doctrine of Mormonism?

 

As man is god once was, as god is man may become

 

It is the center of the Mormon faith and the work of the LDS temples.

 

The Bible says God was God from before eternity and beyond eternity

 

One God.. None besides him, none before, after.

 

3 times Jesus emphasized that God is spirit.

 

God says that he is Not [never was] a man that he should lie.

 

If you don’t trust Bible, The Book of Mormon  says

 

God is not changeable ever.
 

Unchangeable from eternity to eternity.

 

I can’t make your Law of Eternal Progression   and these scriptures match up.

 

Please help me understand.

 

Can we pray?

You pray for full understanding for both of you.

 

Final Words out the door..

 

It seems you have a Different God, Different Jesus, Different Salvation

 

Different heaven, Different hell, Different nature of man, Different scripture,
 

and you have
 

Different  definitions of Biblical terms in common understanding for thousands of years.

http://deckerreport....-with-a-mormon/


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#6
Reformed Baptist

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Mormonism asserts that the universe, men, and gods are all eternal (1). If man has always been, and some men have always been progressing into godhood: What came first, a god or a man? If a man was first, who made the man? A god? If a god came first, then from what did he progress in this eternal progression of gods? It’s easy to see that not only do the false doctrines of Mormonism have no scriptural support; they are philosophically fallacious as well. Next are two quotes explaining the Mormon teaching on the deification of humanity and plurality of gods.

I think the Mormons have an answer for this one - they don't teach that there was a first cause of all things, but rather that the universe has always been - hence Elohim is just one in a succession of humans that have achieved godhood.

 

The whole basis of the Mormon testimony is feeling based, not logic based or philosphical  - they appeal to the burning in the bosom as their final authority on what is true and what is not. 


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#7
Ozzy

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I don't know about Mormons, but those are some interesting things to think about. Where did God come from? Truthfully, no Christian can answer that question. God just appears to be. How or why we do not know. Then God created a Son who He calls Jesus and sends him to earth to help us. This Jesus grows in faith and truth, follows the commandments of his Father perfectly, and becomes a saved, resurrected being with all the glory and power that the Father gives him. He becomes an heir of the Father, given to share in all that the Father has. In essence, Jesus becomes god-like, or shall we dare say gains the position of a god? Now, I am aware many people want to say Jesus and the Father are the same being, which is really just a 4th century concoction to try and turn these two gods into one, but the Bible teaches no such thing. You may point to the "oneness" verses, but not of those have to do with any physical attributes of God, they all have to do with their relationship to each other. Anyway, the point being, Jesus completes his mission and becomes a glorious resurrected being, to live forever in a perfect state with His father.... and as for us, God's sons and daughters, we can become joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17) and inherit all the glory, blessings, and power that Jesus did, through faith and obedience. So I don't think you should be scolding some Mormons who really believe the same as you, they just term it differently.


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#8
ayin jade

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 So I don't think you should be scolding some Mormons who really believe the same as you, they just term it differently.

 

The bible says those who preach another gospel are accursed and we are not to heed them. Mormons preach another gospel. 


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#9
Ozzy

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Like I said, they seem to preach the same thing as other Christians, you can become like Jesus. And what is Jesus? He is what his Father is,  a God. You just term it differently than those Mormons do. If you want to attack someone who has changed the gospel, you should be starting with 4th century Rome and the heretic doctrines they introduced.

 

The problem with a lot of Christians is they use different vocabulary than other Christians to describe the same thing. Then they each point their finger at the other and cry "foul!" So maybe Mormons describe becoming a saved being as being like God and you describe it as being a saved being. Either way, it is the same thing. This is what you do not see.


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#10
Qnts2

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Like I said, they seem to preach the same thing as other Christians, you can become like Jesus. And what is Jesus? He is what his Father is,  a God. You just term it differently than those Mormons do. If you want to attack someone who has changed the gospel, you should be starting with 4th century Rome and the heretic doctrines they introduced.

 

The problem with a lot of Christians is they use different vocabulary than other Christians to describe the same thing. Then they each point their finger at the other and cry "foul!" So maybe Mormons describe becoming a saved being as being like God and you describe it as being a saved being. Either way, it is the same thing. This is what you do not see.

 

Ozzy, in Christianity, Jesus is not a created being. Jesus is God and is pre-existent, not created. So Jesus did not have to live an obedient life to become a god, He is and always has been God, who came to earth in human flesh. So, Christianity and Mormonism is very fundamentally different.


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#11
Sevenseas

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Like I said, they seem to preach the same thing as other Christians, you can become like Jesus. And what is Jesus? He is what his Father is,  a God. You just term it differently than those Mormons do. If you want to attack someone who has changed the gospel, you should be starting with 4th century Rome and the heretic doctrines they introduced.

 

The problem with a lot of Christians is they use different vocabulary than other Christians to describe the same thing. Then they each point their finger at the other and cry "foul!" So maybe Mormons describe becoming a saved being as being like God and you describe it as being a saved being. Either way, it is the same thing. This is what you do not see.

 

 

Have you studied Mormonism Ozzy?

 

 

Unfortuneatly, it is not a simple case of having a different vocabulary.  Not at all.  

 

Mormonism was created only 200 years ago and uses the book of Mormon as its 'go to' bible

 

 

The Mormon religion (Mormonism), whose followers are known as Mormons and Latter Day Saints (LDS), was founded less than two hundred years ago by a man named Joseph Smith. He claimed to have received a personal visit from God the Father and Jesus Christ who told him that all churches and their creeds were an abomination. Joseph Smith then set out to begin a brand-new religion that claims to be the “only true church on earth.” The problem with Mormonism is that it contradicts, modifies, and expands on the Bible. Christians have no reason to believe that the Bible is not true and adequate. To truly believe in and trust God means to believe in His Word, and all Scripture is inspired by God, which means it comes from Him (2 Timothy 3:16).

Read more:http://www.gotquesti...l#ixzz393jMvU32


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#12
other one

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Most of us don't have any idea what goes on with the temple worship.   It is only open to invitation.  Not even mormons may attend temple worship without a special invitation.     I have been told that it is much like Masonic temple doings and I have read in many places that Joseph Smith was a high level mason.


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#13
Wildstar

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Mormonism asserts that the universe, men, and gods are all eternal (1). If man has always been, and some men have always been progressing into godhood: What came first, a god or a man? If a man was first, who made the man? A god? If a god came first, then from what did he progress in this eternal progression of gods? It’s easy to see that not only do the false doctrines of Mormonism have no scriptural support; they are philosophically fallacious as well. Next are two quotes explaining the Mormon teaching on the deification of humanity and plurality of gods.

I think the Mormons have an answer for this one - they don't teach that there was a first cause of all things, but rather that the universe has always been - hence Elohim is just one in a succession of humans that have achieved godhood.

 

The whole basis of the Mormon testimony is feeling based, not logic based or philosphical  - they appeal to the burning in the bosom as their final authority on what is true and what is not. 

 

off topic

 

I always considered the burning heart thing to be because I did something bad so this post made me sorta laugh

 

The feeling of goodness I get is when I do good and my heart gets that water flow thing.  never understood why people latch onto the warm heart thing.  The bible says the holy spirit is a FOUNTAIN haha


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#14
Willamina

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The "burning thing" comes from Luke 24:32 NKJV Did not our heart burn within us while He talked to us on the road? v.27 Jesus had been explaining the Old Testament to the men on the road to Emmaus. (V.13)
So Joseph Smith said that an angel told him that he would know if what was written in the Bible was true [or any of the so called translating and recording of the plates was true] only if they had a burning in their bosoms when reading it. Doctrine & Covenants 9:8 Of course they are accursed for bringing another gospel. Their religion is based on Scottish Rite Masons. They stole the ritual and legends and melded it with the religion he created. Masons will allow Jews to join but not mormons due to this--they are black balled. If there was an angel speaking to Joseph Smith it was a fallen one. They make their religion sound the same and will say they believe like we do, but the truth is that few have any idea what we truly believe and they have used the same christianese words to mean something entirely different. You really have to define words when speaking to them.

Occasionally when I have spoken to mormon missionaries and the Holy Spirit had given me light on a subject, I would tell them that I had a burning in my bosom concerning an opposit interpretation from theirs. It always puzzeled them and stopped their arguements. But I was trying to put it into their language. A lot of mormons must suffer from heartburn and indigestion. We should offer them some Pepsid or an antactid.
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