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Hello Christian Forums,
 
The question on my mind has been bothering me for a while now. It puts me into a very confused and angry state anytime I try thinking about it. I would appreciate as many replies and thoughts on this as possible.
 
MY QUESTION:
How was I born into this crooked and corrupt life apart from my creator? Whenever I ask myself this question I am directed to Romans 5:12. This verse takes me to the story of the first two  humans in existence. I realize their stupidity, but why should their decision affect me in any way? Was I consulted before they picked a fruit off a tree? Was I secretly involved in their defiance and disobedience? How in the world am I supposed to accept the punishment for a decision that was not mine to make? How did you and I get tangled up in this mess to begin with?
 
From what I understand, God originally planned humanity to be perfect and to live with him in harmony forever. How was the life God destined for me and you altered because of a careless decision someone else made? Romans 3:23 says because one man sinned we all fall short of the glory of God. When Satan/Luficer/The Devil sinned did all angels fall short of the glory of God as well? That isn't the case. So why is it humans are the only part of creation that this weird concept seems to apply to? Why did other angels not have to share punishment for what Satan did? But yet, I am supposed to accept the punishment for what Adam/Eve did? How does this make any sense?
 
So why is it I'm sitting here now, in this incomplete state, where I have to reconcile with my creator before the end of my life or else I will be in eternal damnation? Why couldn't I live the blissful and worry-free life God intended for me to have? 
 
Thanks,
Alex
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The sin that came upon Adam when he disobeyed God has infected all of mankind like a disease. We cannot escape its effects on us. We are now all rendered incomplete and unworthy of heaven, so God made a way back to Him through His wonderful Son Jesus! As for the angels, only one third of their population fell with Lucifer. The rest remained in their holy position, serving God.

 

Welcome to Worthy, Alex!

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The punishment for sin is for the sins you commit. Not one person is without sin. The Lord, knowing people would sin, provided a way for their sins to be paid for. Get to know Jesus. He is your escape from punishment for sin.

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The sin that came upon Adam when he disobeyed God has infected all of mankind like a disease. We cannot escape its effects on us. We are now all rendered incomplete and unworthy of heaven, so God made a way back to Him through His wonderful Son Jesus! As for the angels, only one third of their population fell with Lucifer. The rest remained in their holy position, serving God.

 

Welcome to Worthy, Alex!

But I was not even brought into existence yet. Why am I torn apart from my creator because of a decision someone else made? Why should I have to inherit that punishment?

 

You also stated not all angels were held accountable for Satan's decision. So why should I be held accountable for Adam/Eve's?

 

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Hello Christian Forums,
 
The question on my mind has been bothering me for a while now. It puts me into a very confused and angry state anytime I try thinking about it. I would appreciate as many replies and thoughts on this as possible.
 
MY QUESTION:
How was I born into this crooked and corrupt life apart from my creator? Whenever I ask myself this question I am directed to Romans 5:12. This verse takes me to the story of the first two  humans in existence. I realize their stupidity, but why should their decision affect me in any way? Was I consulted before they picked a fruit off a tree? Was I secretly involved in their defiance and disobedience? How in the world am I supposed to accept the punishment for a decision that was not mine to make? How did you and I get tangled up in this mess to begin with?
 
From what I understand, God originally planned humanity to be perfect and to live with him in harmony forever. How was the life God destined for me and you altered because of a careless decision someone else made? Romans 3:23 says because one man sinned we all fall short of the glory of God. When Satan/Luficer/The Devil sinned did all angels fall short of the glory of God as well? That isn't the case. So why is it humans are the only part of creation that this weird concept seems to apply to? Why did other angels not have to share punishment for what Satan did? But yet, I am supposed to accept the punishment for what Adam/Eve did? How does this make any sense?
 
So why is it I'm sitting here now, in this incomplete state, where I have to reconcile with my creator before the end of my life or else I will be in eternal damnation? Why couldn't I live the blissful and worry-free life God intended for me to have? 
 
Thanks,
Alex

 

 

God knows that. That's why he gave you a second chance through his son. A lot of Christians say that we don't deserve it, but if God gave us the free gift of salvation then he obviously thinks that we deserve it.

Don't worry, you will be of stronger character by having to struggle with this imperfected state. We will all be like Adam before the fall, but somewhat better because we will have learned the hard way. God promises us great rewards in heaven.

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The punishment for sin is for the sins you commit. Not one person is without sin. The Lord, knowing people would sin, provided a way for their sins to be paid for. Get to know Jesus. He is your escape from punishment for sin.

But why is it I have to work towards a relationship with God in the first place? Why is it broken? 

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Alex, that is a really fundamental question that  a lot of people ask.

 

One thing to keep in consideration is that Paul tells us that the saints (saved people) will judge the Angels...    I don't know for sure when God made that decision, but it seems to me that it would have been from the beginning.    

 

You say that you think that humans were supposed to be some perfect things and live forever, but I would disagree.  God made us totally incapable of judging anything for we didn't even know good from evil (right from wrong) and knowing that we would judge the angels I find it rather impossible to think that he didn't know Adam would eat of the fruit and looks like it was his goal all along.....    It was Satan himself that introduced the ability to be judges.

 

While you didn't have a choice in their decision, you did inherit the result of it, for we are all born with an inborn knowledge of what is right and wrong..   Some people pay attention to it and others don't.    Remember that Adam and Eve ran around naked before they ate of the fruit and realized it was wrong to do so after they ate.....     it wasn't that Adam and Eve were perfect, it was that they really didn't know any better.....   and you do.

 

So, the real difference is that people today really do know when they are doing something not right, but some get to the point that they really don't care enough to even think about it.

 

You are going to spend eternity somewhere and it's your choice where you spend it.   Jesus came here and made a way for you to be with him throughout eternity if you choose to do so.   It's really not difficult to do.

 

As for punishment for choosing not to.......     well all I can say is that you have been informed before hand and if you choose to go to hell,, it is.....   well your choice.

 

edited to add.                   We have been warned in scripture that God is going to totally destroy the earth by fire.....   he's made a way for you to not be here when he does.

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alexhasquestions

 

So why is it humans are the only part of creation that this weird concept seems to apply to?

we are the only creation made in his image. He had big plans for mankind, mankind screwed up with the free will and reasoning he put in us. And he loved us enough to give us another chance to attain the thing we screwed up with our free will and reasoning which is eternal life.
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The sin that came upon Adam when he disobeyed God has infected all of mankind like a disease. We cannot escape its effects on us. We are now all rendered incomplete and unworthy of heaven, so God made a way back to Him through His wonderful Son Jesus! As for the angels, only one third of their population fell with Lucifer. The rest remained in their holy position, serving God.

 

Welcome to Worthy, Alex!

But I was not even brought into existence yet. Why am I torn apart from my creator because of a decision someone else made? Why should I have to inherit that punishment?

 

You also stated not all angels were held accountable for Satan's decision. So why should I be held accountable for Adam/Eve's?

 

 

 

Our Creator doesn't tear anyone apart. His Creation has been "kidnapped" in a sense, and robbed of its perfect standing with Him by an interloper. He has ransomed us back by the price paid by His Son. If you want to remain with your captor, He gives you every right to do so...but don't forget that we all have a father---either God or Satan, and it has now become a choice for us to make: who will you serve?

 

Righteous angels are not soiled by choosing to follow the infidel among them, but that infidel, Satan, infected humanity, and so they need a deliverer...Jesus Christ.

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Alex, that is a really fundamental question that  a lot of people ask.

 

One thing to keep in consideration is that Paul tells us that the saints (saved people) will judge the Angels...    I don't know for sure when God made that decision, but it seems to me that it would have been from the beginning.    

 

You say that you think that humans were supposed to be some perfect things and live forever, but I would disagree.  God made us totally incapable of judging anything for we didn't even know good from evil (right from wrong) and knowing that we would judge the angels I find it rather impossible to think that he didn't know Adam would eat of the fruit and looks like it was his goal all along.....    It was Satan himself that introduced the ability to be judges.

 

While you didn't have a choice in their decision, you did inherit the result of it, for we are all born with an inborn knowledge of what is right and wrong..   Some people pay attention to it and others don't.    Remember that Adam and Eve ran around naked before they ate of the fruit and realized it was wrong to do so after they ate.....     it wasn't that Adam and Eve were perfect, it was that they really didn't know any better.....   and you do.

 

So, the real difference is that people today really do know when they are doing something not right, but some get to the point that they really don't care enough to even think about it.

 

You are going to spend eternity somewhere and it's your choice where you spend it.   Jesus came here and made a way for you to be with him throughout eternity if you choose to do so.   It's really not difficult to do.

 

As for punishment for choosing not to.......     well all I can say is that you have been informed before hand and if you choose to go to hell,, it is.....   well your choice.

 

I like your response but you did not completely respond to my 2nd paragraph at all. So I have bolded it for everyone since it is not being commented on much.

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The sin that came upon Adam when he disobeyed God has infected all of mankind like a disease. We cannot escape its effects on us. We are now all rendered incomplete and unworthy of heaven, so God made a way back to Him through His wonderful Son Jesus! As for the angels, only one third of their population fell with Lucifer. The rest remained in their holy position, serving God.

 

Welcome to Worthy, Alex!

But I was not even brought into existence yet. Why am I torn apart from my creator because of a decision someone else made? Why should I have to inherit that punishment?

 

You also stated not all angels were held accountable for Satan's decision. So why should I be held accountable for Adam/Eve's?

 

 

 

Our Creator doesn't tear anyone apart. His Creation has been "kidnapped" in a sense, and robbed of its perfect standing with Him by an interloper. He has ransomed us back by the price paid by His Son. If you want to remain with your captor, He gives you every right to do so...but don't forget that we all have a father---either God or Satan, and it has now become a choice for us to make: who will you serve?

 

Righteous angels are not soiled by choosing to follow the infidel among them, but that infidel, Satan, infected humanity, and so they need a deliverer...Jesus Christ.

 

 

So angels are somehow immune to the decisions of Satan but we are not immune to the decisions of Adam and Eve?

 

Why is this? One man falls, all men fall. One angel falls, not all of them fall?

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Angels do not beget other angels, so they cannot pass on the defect of sin. Adam and Eve passed on that defect, which includes physical death to their offspring, and so we cannot escape it. We need the deliverance that only comes through a perfect deliverer---Jesus.

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Angels do not beget other angels, so they cannot pass on the defect of sin. Adam and Eve passed on that defect, which includes physical death to their offspring, and so we cannot escape it. We need the deliverance that only comes through a perfect deliverer---Jesus.

So angels can escape it but we can't.

 

Why is this? Why are the circumstances surrounding my existence so different from that of the existence of angels? Why do they have such a big advantage?

It seems like they get a get out of jail free pass. They do not have to work towards rebuilding a relationship or pleasing God because they are already perfect in his eyes.

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Angels do not beget other angels, so they cannot pass on the defect of sin. Adam and Eve passed on that defect, which includes physical death to their offspring, and so we cannot escape it. We need the deliverance that only comes through a perfect deliverer---Jesus.

So angels can escape it but we can't.

 

Why is this? Why are the circumstances surrounding my existence so different from that of the existence of angels? Why do they have such a big advantage?

It seems like they get a get out of jail free pass. They do not have to work towards rebuilding a relationship or pleasing God because they are already perfect in his eyes.

 

 

Angels are heavenly creatures. They are not like us and have been created for another purpose. We were created to have fellowship with God---intimate fellowship. Angels (a whole order of them) are ministering spirits doing the will of God---concerning us. God's love and focus is man. Fallen angels are not on the hook for sin except the fallen ones who chose rebellion against God---there is no hope for them, but there is hope for us because He loves us so much!

 

Righteous angels remained in their roles and did not rebel. Why should they be cast out of heaven with the rebels?

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You say that you think that humans were supposed to be some perfect things and live forever, but I would disagree.  

With very little research on the matter I have found one verse that contradicts this:

 

 

 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.openbible.info/topics/god_made_us_perfect

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The punishment for sin is for the sins you commit. Not one person is without sin. The Lord, knowing people would sin, provided a way for their sins to be paid for. Get to know Jesus. He is your escape from punishment for sin.

But why is it I have to work towards a relationship with God in the first place? Why is it broken? 

 

 

Your sins keep you from God. There is only one way to repair that: through Jesus. 

 

 

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You say that you think that humans were supposed to be some perfect things and live forever, but I would disagree.  

With very little research on the matter I have found one verse that contradicts this:

 

 

 

 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.openbible.info/topics/god_made_us_perfect

 

 

Understand that verse in context.

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Angels do not beget other angels, so they cannot pass on the defect of sin. Adam and Eve passed on that defect, which includes physical death to their offspring, and so we cannot escape it. We need the deliverance that only comes through a perfect deliverer---Jesus.

So angels can escape it but we can't.

 

Why is this? Why are the circumstances surrounding my existence so different from that of the existence of angels? Why do they have such a big advantage?

It seems like they get a get out of jail free pass. They do not have to work towards rebuilding a relationship or pleasing God because they are already perfect in his eyes.

 

 

Angels are heavenly creatures. They are not like us and have been created for another purpose. We were created to have fellowship with God---intimate fellowship. Angels (a whole order of them) are ministering spirits doing the will of God---concerning us. God's love and focus is man. Fallen angels are not on the hook for sin except the fallen ones who chose rebellion against God---there is no hope for them, but there is hope for us because He loves us so much!

 

Righteous angels remained in their roles and did not rebel. Why should they be cast out of heaven with the rebels?

 

This wavering love you speak of concerns me. If he is willing to offer reconciliation to some of his creation but not all then I cannot see how is he fair or loving.

 

But again, this is not the primary part of my question.

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The punishment for sin is for the sins you commit. Not one person is without sin. The Lord, knowing people would sin, provided a way for their sins to be paid for. Get to know Jesus. He is your escape from punishment for sin.

But why is it I have to work towards a relationship with God in the first place? Why is it broken? 

 

 

Your sins keep you from God. There is only one way to repair that: through Jesus. 

 

Exactly. My sins keep me from God. But my question revolves around the idea that why does Adam/Eve's sins keep me from God?

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You say that you think that humans were supposed to be some perfect things and live forever, but I would disagree.  

With very little research on the matter I have found one verse that contradicts this:

 

 

 

 

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.openbible.info/topics/god_made_us_perfect

 

 

That word, "perfect" means "be made complete"---grow in good moral character. If you are going to seek through the bible for verses to help you remain in your doubt---you won't be successful.

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From what I understand, God originally planned humanity to be perfect and to live with him in harmony forever. How was the life God destined for me and you altered because of a careless decision someone else made? Romans 3:23 says because one man sinned we all fall short of the glory of God. When Satan/Luficer/The Devil sinned did all angels fall short of the glory of God as well? That isn't the case. So why is it humans are the only part of creation that this weird concept seems to apply to? Why did other angels not have to share punishment for what Satan did? But yet, I am supposed to accept the punishment for what Adam/Eve did? How does this make any sense?
 
 

 

You have a wrong quotation of Romans 3:23

23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

 

That says all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, not through one man all fall short. 

 

Through one man, the world is in a fallen state but it is your sins that condemn you. 

 

Fallen angels have no chance at redemption. Fallen people can be saved through Jesus. Big difference. 

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Shalom Alex,

 Welcome to Worthy !!

 

You might want to look at the context of Matthew 5:48

Mat 5:46  For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47  And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax-collectors do so?
Mat 5:48  Therefore be perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.

 

 

(gills commentary says)

Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father,.... This perfection is to be restrained to the subject Christ is upon, love to men, and not to be referred to any, or every other thing; wherefore, in Luk_6:36 it is, "be ye merciful, as your Father also is merciful"; and regards not a perfection of degree in that, but objects and quality: that is to say, not that men may, or can, or ought to be as perfect in love, as to the degree of it, as God is; that is impossible: the "as" here, is not a note of equality, but of likeness: such, who profess God to be their Father, ought to imitate him, particularly in their love to men, which ought to be extended to the same objects, as the divine goodness is; that, as he shows regard in a providential way to all men, good and bad, just and unjust, and his tender mercies are over all his works; so ought they to love all men with a natural affection, and hate no man, no, not their enemies: for he that loves only his friends, and not his enemies, loves imperfectly; he does not take in the whole compass of objects his love is to extend unto; and as God loves sincerely, and without dissimulation, so should they. To be "perfect", is to be sincere and upright: in this sense is the word often used, and answers to the Hebrew word תמים, which signifies the same: see  Deu_18:13 which is the passage Christ seems to refer to here; and the sense is, be ye sincere and upright in your love to all men, as your heavenly Father is hearty and sincere in his affections to them.

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Angels do not beget other angels, so they cannot pass on the defect of sin. Adam and Eve passed on that defect, which includes physical death to their offspring, and so we cannot escape it. We need the deliverance that only comes through a perfect deliverer---Jesus.

So angels can escape it but we can't.

 

Why is this? Why are the circumstances surrounding my existence so different from that of the existence of angels? Why do they have such a big advantage?

It seems like they get a get out of jail free pass. They do not have to work towards rebuilding a relationship or pleasing God because they are already perfect in his eyes.

 

 

Angels are heavenly creatures. They are not like us and have been created for another purpose. We were created to have fellowship with God---intimate fellowship. Angels (a whole order of them) are ministering spirits doing the will of God---concerning us. God's love and focus is man. Fallen angels are not on the hook for sin except the fallen ones who chose rebellion against God---there is no hope for them, but there is hope for us because He loves us so much!

 

Righteous angels remained in their roles and did not rebel. Why should they be cast out of heaven with the rebels?

 

This wavering love you speak of concerns me. If he is willing to offer reconciliation to some of his creation but not all then I cannot see how is he fair or loving.

 

But again, this is not the primary part of my question.

 

 

What wavering love??? His angelic creation is not whom He covets! His righteous angels are holy. The ones who rebelled are already condemned, and cast out of heaven. DONE! Human beings are created in His image, and are the objects of His love! That is why He made a way for us. I, for one, appreciate it.

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Think nephilim?

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The punishment for sin is for the sins you commit. Not one person is without sin. The Lord, knowing people would sin, provided a way for their sins to be paid for. Get to know Jesus. He is your escape from punishment for sin.

But why is it I have to work towards a relationship with God in the first place? Why is it broken? 

 

 

Your sins keep you from God. There is only one way to repair that: through Jesus. 

 

Exactly. My sins keep me from God. But my question revolves around the idea that why does Adam/Eve's sins keep me from God?

 

 

Their sins only cause you to live in a fallen world, a world cursed because of their sins. Your sins keep you from God. Seeking to toss blame on to adam and eve does not excuse your sins nor does it excuse you from your need for Jesus. 

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