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Misuse Of Scripture

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Poll: Misuse Of Scripture (16 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you believe it is a sin to misuse scripture to win an argument? Which answer best represents your view?

  1. Yes, it is the same as lying (16 votes [100.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 100.00%

  2. No, the ends justify the means. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. If I sincerely believe I am right, it is ok to misuse scripture in some cases. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1
Butero

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I am looking for opinions about the wilful misuse of scripture to win a debate.  Do you consider it wrong?  I will give you an example of what I mean.  Lets suppose we are discussing drinking wine, and whether or not it is sinful.  Someone who opposes drinking wine takes a scripture completely out of context to show it is wrong, like this one.

 

Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee...  Leviticus 10:9

 

When you see this, what is the impression you get?  That you shouldn't drink alcohol, right?  Slight of hand was used here.  That is actual scripture, but what is left out is that it is not to everyone, but only to the priests when they go into the tabernacle of the congregation.  This is completely taken out of context.  Assuming that the person debating here really believes alcohol is wrong for the Christian, but is just having a hard time compiling legitimate scriptures to make the case, do you think he is sinning or wrong to take scripture out of context in such a manner?  I see this happen a lot, and at times by people that are not new Christians. 



#2
OneLight

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There are many arguments/debates where people twist scripture to support their belief.  It could be that this is how they were taught, or it could be this is how they taught themselves.  One thing for sure, it is not from the Holy Spirit.  One should always take scripture in it's context, not remove it from the context it was written in.



#3
Butero

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I agree One Light.  Of course, I realize that someone can misunderstand a passage and really think they are in context in some situations.  I am not speaking of people in those situations.  I only mean people that are clearly doing it on purpose.  They see the clear meaning, and they intentionally take the verse out of context.  A close second to that is when people intentionally take the words of another poster out of context to make them look bad.  They will take a snippet from what they said, knowing it wasn't what they were trying to convey, and respond to it.  I find that conduct wrong too, but I am really bothered by people doing it with scripture. 



#4
other one

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Butero, I have seen this many times over the past ten years.   Sometimes is saddens me and sometimes it makes me angry. 

 

I had a really serious reading problem growing up because of my eyes.   It actually affected my brain wiring to the point that I process information different than most other folks  It gives me the ability to focus on things in much sharper mental detail than most people, but it hinders me seeing a broad picture some times.

For that reason I have to read whole paragraphs instead of even sentences to make sure I understand the context of what's being said.   It took me many years to discover how to do that, and it has even changed since I first came here....

 

now I just ramble a lot  LoL.....



#5
Butero

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I get angry at times over this kind of thing, but right now I am just saddened by it.  I just honestly don't understand it.  I do understand it if people were in a debate club and just fighting to find a way to win, or if it were lawyers in court trying to win a case.  This is different because I have to assume, given the fact everyone is a professing Christian, and we are discussing what we claim to be the Word of God, our primary objective is truth, not winning a debate at any cost.  If we can't win telling the truth, what good does it do?  What are you really accomplishing? 

 

I haven't been in a debate over alcohol lately, but lets suppose that example really happened.  Lets say my intent is to keep people from becoming alcoholics, and I am afraid that if they ever get the notion they have freedom to drink in moderation, they will become drunks, am I really doing right to lie to them to keep them under control?  Maybe some people think that is the right thing to do.  Maybe they truly believe it is ok to twist scripture to save people from themselves.  I want to understand their mindset, but I can't fully grasp it.  Maybe someone who actually thinks it is ok to misuse scripture like that in some circumstances will come forth and be courageous enough to explain why they feel it is ok.  I am not holding out much hope for that, but you never know. 

 

Anyway, thanks Other One for your contribution to this thread. 



#6
FresnoJoe

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:thumbsup:

 

My View

 

Some Share One Thing

 

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. John 10:27-28

 

Some Share Another

 

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

 

Some Get Offended

 

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

 

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Matthew 7:3-5

 

Some Get Blessed

 

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

 

~

 

Excellent Thread

 

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,

 

and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

 

Beloved

 

If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

 

Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

 

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

 

Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Philippians 2:1-4

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

~

 

PS: Sometimes The "Misuse"

 

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? John 3:3-4

 

Is Just A

 

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? John 3:5-9

 

Misunderstanding

 

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

 

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:10-15

 

Until Backed By Scripture

 

And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

 

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. Numbers 21:8-9

 

As I See It

 

Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law. Psalms 19:18



#7
tigger398

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I'm going with the first one.



#8
Wildstar

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Voted first



#9
Sevenseas

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Depends.  Are we here to win an arguement?

 

I really don't think anyone would admit to deliberately lying and misusing scripture.....and I also think it going over the line to accuse people of lying

 

I don't think anyone is right all the time and sometimes the person who is convinced in their own mind about how right they are, is actually the person who is wrong

but of course that would be impossible to settle as we can really only settle such thing in our minds as God alone knows the heart and mind.

 

Truthfully, some people do not understand their own emotions or reactions, so I think we need to remember that judging the motive is ALWAYS wrong

 

Oh for sure I will engage in threads where there are strong opinions and differences....but I really do not expect to win anything and I do have a care for others

reading the thread who may actually be undecided so a representation of both sides of an opinion, or interpretation or belief is not a bad thing.

 

The bad, starts when someone becomes a dictator and accuses others of having faulty theology or what have you.

 

That's my $1.00's (inflation) worth of opinion



#10
shiloh357

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Misusing the Bible often stems from a lack of proper skills in hermeneutics.  It isn't hard and we use hermeneutics every day in our conversations and interactions with others, but for some reason, all of that goes out the window when the Bible is in play.

 

Many people allow their theology to drive how they interpret that Bible, whereas, an objective study of Scripture via hermeneutics would resolve so many of the conflicts people have. 

 

What I see happening on this board is people trying "back up" their views with Scripture and that is putting the cart before the horse.  They need to know what the Scripture says and then align themselves with Scriptures.   And I will be the first to admit that I have been guilty of that very thing in the past.  But It is something that I have become aware of and am correcting in my own approach to the Scriptures.



#11
Persuaded

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I think it was Spurgeon that said we can at best be 80% correct in our doctrine.
Somebody else has said that the only sure barrier to the truth is to assume you already have it.

I firmly believe in absolutes and big-T "Truth", but the more I learn the more I realize there is more to learn. Most of us have a solid foundation of Truth, and we build knowledge and understanding and insight on top of that. Like any relationship: you learn early that you are friends, then over time you build and deepen the relationship, sometimes goofing up along the way.

Deliberately misusing scripture? This can be a tough call. Different passages may have different hermeneutic standards. While context is really important, it can also be confining if not measured against the entire Word. The "my son I have called out of Egypt" passage is a classic example, as well as Moses lifting the brass snake on a pole- both had very different meanings in a whole Bible sense, than their local context would reveal. Some insist on things like "as the original audience would have understood it" as a legitimate filter, but that denies that the HS can cause His penman to write beyond their own understanding, such as Daniel when he says he didn't understand his vision.

#12
clark thompson

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Satan did it in the garden. When there is an example of him doing it we should be doing different.


Edited by clark thompson, 01 August 2014 - 05:25 PM.


#13
Butero

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I am speaking of cases where you could possibly just be misinterpreting things.  Look at the example I gave.  The person in this example had to know it was speaking to the priests and only when doing the service of the Lord.  I am not talking about cases where someone just disagrees over interpretation.  Open up your Bible and actually look at the verse I quoted, and see how I misused it in the example.  This was a clear cut case of intentionally perverting the Word.  That is quite different than having two people discuss a topic like eternal security, and both look at something like what it means when it says no man can pluck you out of God's hand.  I am not referring to any situation where there is the remotest possibility the person didn't know exactly what he or she was doing. 



#14
FresnoJoe

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I am not referring to any situation where there is the remotest possibility the person didn't know exactly what he or she was doing. 

 

:thumbsup:

 

Yes Beloved, Some Are Slitherers (Like Their Father)

 

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44

 

And Some Are Just Confused

 

As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 1 Peter 2:2

 

And Some Have Mercy

 

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 2 Corinthians 4:2

 

And Some

 

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. Luke 6:28

 

Won't

 

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 1 Thessalonians 5:8

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

~

 

PS: And Some Brothers Come Up With The Most Interesting Threads :)

 

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11



#15
ayin jade

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I pretty much ignored this thread after reading the first post. 

 

But then days later I had an ah ha moment. 

 

The only examples in the bible of scripture being misused to win an argument show that it is bad to deliberately do so just to win an argument. The devil twisted scripture as did the pharisees to trap Jesus. Given those bad examples, why should believers do the same?



#16
LadyC

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i would like to think that those who twist scripture really don't know they are. i'd like to think they are sincere in their convictions, even if those convictions are wrong.



#17
Butero

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Again, look at the extreme example I gave.  If you take the time to look that verse up in a concordance, trying to win an argument that drinking alcohol is a sin, once you get there you can clearly see it was speaking to a specific group of people while they were doing a specific activity.  It isn't speaking to the population at large.  You couldn't possibly just be in error.  It would have to be deliberate.  I have seen this take place.  Most of the time, that is not what is going on.  We have genuine differences of opinion, and I am not calling anyone a liar or a deceiver for simply having a different point of view than I have.  I am speaking of something, exactly as Ayin Jade mentioned, where the devil twisted scripture to entice Jesus to do something wrong. 

 

Lawyers and people in debate clubs will do things like that all the time, and it is expected, but my point here is that we are Christians trying to discuss the Holy Bible, so you would think the first priority would be to get it right, not just win an argument at any cost.  Lets stick with the alcohol example for a moment.  I suppose it is possible sincere believers could disagree over whether or not Jesus drank wine or grape juice.  I can't personally see the grape juice argument as holding any weight, but I can see how someone might believe that.  At the same time, if you have to go to the extremes I mentioned, where you actually take a verse completely out of context to win an argument, how can you feel good about what you did?  You intentionally misused God's Holy Word, and when I see things like that, it makes me question if the person who did it could truly believe the Bible is the Word of God. 



#18
gigman7

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Exodus 20:7  "thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain"



#19
other one

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Exodus 20:7  "thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain"

what is the Lords name?



#20
Enoc

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Interesting

 

IMO Its a lack of maturity to knowingly as well as unknowingly to misuse scripture. I've been guilty of such an act. 






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