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Dan 9:27 Peace policy or War Pact?

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#1
inchrist

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Hi Guys,

 

I would like to get some evidence on the popular believe that Daniel 9:27 describes an event that the anti-Christ will make a peace deal with Israel in the first half of the last seven years of this age, or most recent view a jewish antichrist will sign peace treaties and establish a "Holy Covenant" called animal sacrifices.

 

The problem is what if the peace deal is not scriptural and does not, therefore, come to pass?

 

If any prophetic issue deserves sirens, this has got to be one, for it robs one from knowing that the anti-Christ comes in the first half of the Week with guns ablazing, even against Israel herself.

 

So I would like to test this peace theory out and where does this thinking come from...


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#2
Salty

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Dan.11:23

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

 

Dan.11:31

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

Same one in Dan.9:27 that does those very things.


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#3
inchrist

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Dan.11:23

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

 

Dan.11:31

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

Same one in Dan.9:27 that does those very things.

 

Great...then you would have no problems pointing out in Daniel 11:21-31, where we see the peaceful activities of the anti-Christ in the first half of the week? because in Dan 11:24 we see the antichrist  invasions into Egypt in the first half of the week


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#4
Montana Marv

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Rev 13:3b   And the whole world was astonished and followed the beast.  Was submissive to him, Did what he says.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv


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#5
Last Daze

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Hi Guys,

 

I would like to get some evidence on the popular believe that Daniel 9:27 describes an event that the anti-Christ will make a peace deal with Israel in the first half of the last seven years of this age, or most recent view a jewish antichrist will sign peace treaties and establish a "Holy Covenant" called animal sacrifices.

 

The problem is what if the peace deal is not scriptural and does not, therefore, come to pass?

 

If any prophetic issue deserves sirens, this has got to be one, for it robs one from knowing that the anti-Christ comes in the first half of the Week with guns ablazing, even against Israel herself.

 

So I would like to test this peace theory out and where does this thinking come from...

 

Some kind of a seven year agreement is going to be made which appears to, at least in part, address the sacrificial system of worship, and consequently the temple.  Whether it's spawned from war or not, I'm not sure but I tend to think some kind of conflict will produce it just because agreements are what  typically resolve conflicts.  Regardless, I can't imagine that it will be made in secret, as some political agreements are, because of the involvement of the temple.

 

Also, I don't think that the false prophet (antichrist) is necessarily the one that makes the covenant...it could be, but not necessarily so.  I say that because of Daniel 9:26 where it says "and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."  The Romans were of a prince...a prince who is to come.  If the prince being referred to is the false prophet (antichrist), how are the Romans of him?  I believe the prince being referred to is the fallen angel that caused Rome to exercise dominion.  This lines up with the description of the beast in Rev 17 that says  “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss".  This fallen angel or prince will have some human agent make the covenant, likely the false prophet, but not necessarily so.


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#6
ARGOSY

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Hi Guys,

 

I would like to get some evidence on the popular believe that Daniel 9:27 describes an event that the anti-Christ will make a peace deal with Israel in the first half of the last seven years of this age, or most recent view a jewish antichrist will sign peace treaties and establish a "Holy Covenant" called animal sacrifices.

 

The problem is what if the peace deal is not scriptural and does not, therefore, come to pass?

 

If any prophetic issue deserves sirens, this has got to be one, for it robs one from knowing that the anti-Christ comes in the first half of the Week with guns ablazing, even against Israel herself.

 

So I would like to test this peace theory out and where does this thinking come from...

 

 

Daniel 9:27 is better understood with knowing the following 5 facts:

FACT 1:   When a "prince to come" is mentioned in verse 25, its illogical to change the identity of the "prince to come" in verse 26 just because it fits in with your doctrinal bias. there has to be something in the wording that hints at a second prince.

FACT 2:  The word for "destroy" in verse 26 has a meaning that is close to rot/ruin.  It can mean "destroy" but it can also mean "corrupt" and so the words "ruin/rot" which cover both meanings probably better reflect the Hebrew

FACT 3: Jesus was anointed in the River Jordan when the Holy Spirit came down upon him like a dove. At this moment John the Baptist and the disciples recognised him as the anointed One/Messiah of Israel. This was the "coming of the anointed one"

FACT 4: Most English translations separate the identity of the one who confirms the covenant and the one who sets up the abomination.

FACT 5: The NT does not mention any peace treaty or ending of sacrifices

 

If one meditates on these truths, it becomes far easier to understand Daniel 9:27 without the tinted glasses of our preconceived views. With a better understanding, we can then recognise that there is no need to look for a peace treaty or "ending of sacrifices" in the future, we only have to heed the NT warnings of the abomination appearing amongst great signs and wonders for only 3.5 years. (Matthew 24, 2 Thess 2, Rev 13)


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#7
Salty

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So should we then disregard all the attempts of a peace treaty for Jerusalem in the past since 1948 when Israel became a nation state again in the Middle East? I don't think so.

 

In Rev.13 the question is asked who is like the beast? who can make war with him? That idea is about the Antichrist complete and total rule over all peoples and nations on the earth when he comes to power in Jerusalem.

 

When Apostle Paul showed the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" and then a "sudden destruction" will come upon them, that is about the tribulation time and then the day of the Lord events he was teaching about in that 1 Thess.5 chapter.

 

When Jesus said in Matt.24 that we will hear of wars and rumors of war, those things must be, BUT the end is not yet, the opposite of a time of wars and rumors of wars is a time of peace.

 

Around a decade ago, globalists, internationalists, declared Jerusalem as "The International City of Peace", showing their intentions for her under their plans for a "one world government." Under a one world government that controls all nations, who can make war against it, for it will control the military of all nations? Not only this, but the globalists have plans for a one world currency, which reveals what Jesus showed in Rev.13 about a required mark for buying and selling. When a world governing body controls the financial resources of a nation, it also controls the war-making ability of that nation.

 

Do you think these little battles with small groups of terrorists today is a war? It's not war, they're world police actions controlled by the internationalists. They're policing the world neighborhood as a means to get control over governments and nations, and that's all. And most of those little terrorist acts are initiated by the Kremlin with sending those terrorists military weapons and training while trying to act like they aren't involved so they can continue to play the 'peace' with the West disinformation game.


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#8
ARGOSY

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So should we then disregard all the attempts of a peace treaty for Jerusalem in the past since 1948 when Israel became a nation state again in the Middle East? I don't think so.

 

In Rev.13 the question is asked who is like the beast? who can make war with him? That idea is about the Antichrist complete and total rule over all peoples and nations on the earth when he comes to power in Jerusalem.

 

When Apostle Paul showed the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" and then a "sudden destruction" will come upon them, that is about the tribulation time and then the day of the Lord events he was teaching about in that 1 Thess.5 chapter.

 

When Jesus said in Matt.24 that we will hear of wars and rumors of war, those things must be, BUT the end is not yet, the opposite of a time of wars and rumors of wars is a time of peace.

 

Around a decade ago, globalists, internationalists, declared Jerusalem as "The International City of Peace", showing their intentions for her under their plans for a "one world government." Under a one world government that controls all nations, who can make war against it, for it will control the military of all nations? Not only this, but the globalists have plans for a one world currency, which reveals what Jesus showed in Rev.13 about a required mark for buying and selling. When a world governing body controls the financial resources of a nation, it also controls the war-making ability of that nation.

 

Do you think these little battles with small groups of terrorists today is a war? It's not war, they're world police actions controlled by the internationalists. They're policing the world neighborhood as a means to get control over governments and nations, and that's all. And most of those little terrorist acts are initiated by the Kremlin with sending those terrorists military weapons and training while trying to act like they aren't involved so they can continue to play the 'peace' with the West disinformation game.

 

I agree there will be a time of peace. But just like the rise of the EU was seen as a progression of negotiations, I believe the future peace will be the same. The sudden appearance of the man of sin will co-ordinate all these peace efforts. Where we differ is that I don't believe an actual peace treaty is the event to watch out for, the main event in Christians' warning calendar is the appearance of the man of sin. As per Matthew 24, Mark 13, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13, this event will be accompanied by major deceiving signs and wonders. It will be unmissable. The focus on an actual peace treaty confuses us into believing the period of peace will occur before the 42 months of the reign of the beast, instead of during the 42 months reign of the beast.


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#9
Salty

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I agree there will be a time of peace. But just like the rise of the EU was seen as a progression of negotiations, I believe the future peace will be the same. The sudden appearance of the man of sin will co-ordinate all these peace efforts. Where we differ is that I don't believe an actual peace treaty is the event to watch out for, the main event in Christians' warning calendar is the appearance of the man of sin. As per Matthew 24, Mark 13, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13, this event will be accompanied by major deceiving signs and wonders. It will be unmissable. The focus on an actual peace treaty confuses us into believing the period of peace will occur before the 42 months of the reign of the beast, instead of during the 42 months reign of the beast.

 

 

Well I do believe a specific peace treaty for Jerusalem will be made, and it will be public, just as the last one that was attempted in Oslo.

 

I agree our Lord Jesus made the "abomination of desolation" idol being placed in the temple in Jerusalem as being one of the main events to watch out for. In Luke 21 He even said for those of His in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem in that time.

 

But how will those of His in the nations know about all that, so as to stay out of Jerusalem at that time? I think it will be obvious, because the false worship of the Antichrist, the coming pseudo-Christ which our Lord Jesus warned of, will be a world-wide event, not just a required worship only for those in Jerusalem. Our Lord's warning of a pseudo-Christ that would fool even His very elect if possible comes with the idea of a world-king.

 

Not only do I believe the peace pact in Jerusalem by the Antichrist will be public, but the dead bodies of the two witnesses laying in the street of Jerusalem will be televised world-wide. Otherwise how will the nations see their dead bodies laying in the street as written in Rev.11?


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#10
Persuaded

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This is a conjectural possibility.

First seal:

And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

 

Notice the stuff before he went conquering.

White horse, deceptively like Christ's in Rev 19, and designed to make him look like the good guy.

A bow. The word can be an archer's bow (most assume it is), but it can also be a rainbow, like God's covenant with Noah.

A crown (stephanos, victor's crown) was given to him. This sounds passive, like he receives a victory, rather than takes it. So, by a deceptive covenant, he is given a crown? And then...

He went out conquering.


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#11
inchrist

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Daniel 9:27 is better understood with knowing the following 5 facts:

FACT 1:   When a "prince to come" is mentioned in verse 25, its illogical to change the identity of the "prince to come" in verse 26 just because it fits in with your doctrinal bias. there has to be something in the wording that hints at a second prince.

FACT 2:  The word for "destroy" in verse 26 has a meaning that is close to rot/ruin.  It can mean "destroy" but it can also mean "corrupt" and so the words "ruin/rot" which cover both meanings probably better reflect the Hebrew

FACT 3: Jesus was anointed in the River Jordan when the Holy Spirit came down upon him like a dove. At this moment John the Baptist and the disciples recognised him as the anointed One/Messiah of Israel. This was the "coming of the anointed one"

FACT 4: Most English translations separate the identity of the one who confirms the covenant and the one who sets up the abomination.

FACT 5: The NT does not mention any peace treaty or ending of sacrifices

 

If one meditates on these truths, it becomes far easier to understand Daniel 9:27 without the tinted glasses of our preconceived views. With a better understanding, we can then recognise that there is no need to look for a peace treaty or "ending of sacrifices" in the future, we only have to heed the NT warnings of the abomination appearing amongst great signs and wonders for only 3.5 years. (Matthew 24, 2 Thess 2, Rev 13)

 

 

You admit the NT does not mention any peace treaty but yet you still subscribe to it....

 

I agree there will be a time of peace.

 

......my question then is based on what?

 

I can accept that it is an opinion, but it would appear your stating it as fact? 


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#12
inchrist

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Rev 13:3b   And the whole world was astonished and followed the beast.  Was submissive to him, Did what he says.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Thanks marv it would appear that the "whole world" seems to have accepted the beasts ultimatum


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#13
inchrist

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Also, I don't think that the false prophet (antichrist) is necessarily the one that makes the covenant...it could be, but not necessarily so.  I say that because of Daniel 9:26 where it says "and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."  The Romans were of a prince...a prince who is to come.  If the prince being referred to is the false prophet (antichrist), how are the Romans of him?  I believe the prince being referred to is the fallen angel that caused Rome to exercise dominion.  This lines up with the description of the beast in Rev 17 that says  “The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss".  This fallen angel or prince will have some human agent make the covenant, likely the false prophet, but not necessarily so.

 

 

It would line up being Satan because he lives in two time periods much longer apart than the years of a man. 


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#14
inchrist

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Salty

 

So should we then disregard all the attempts of a peace treaty for Jerusalem in the past since 1948 when Israel became a nation state again in the Middle East? I don't think so.

 

 

Yes you should disregard it, because this peace process is an evolution of madness

 

When Jesus said in Matt.24 that we will hear of wars and rumors of war, those things must be, BUT the end is not yet, the opposite of a time of wars and rumors of wars is a time of peace.

 

 

Again where does the bible say that after the rumors of wars is a time of peace?

 

Human societies seem to be inherently violent. Times of peace are too soon rent and ended by conflict and war because of raw aggression, religious fervor, or pure greed. We need only to gaze back on the twentieth century to find numerous examples of our penchant for violence and inhumanity.
 
The previous hundred years witnessed three world wars: two hot and one cold.
 
It saw mass murders - ethnic cleansing in the following countries Germany, the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, the Sudan, and Rwanda, among others. Countless smaller conflicts nevertheless took multiple thousands of lives in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, the Balkans, Spain, Cuba, Central and South America, Israel, Northern Ireland, and many African nations.
 
Now we have in addition terrorism becoming a  commonplace.
 
Further in the 20th century we have witnessed a prolific arms race that began with the tank and the airplane in the First World War, through the submarine and jet in the Second World War, and culminated with the intercontinental ballistic missile, mutually assured nuclear destruction, and the threat of space-based weapons during the Cold War.
 
These wars spawned the development and use of chemical, biological, and radioactive weapons of mass destruction, in which a suitcase sized device has the potential to snuff out the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in one blast. Nations played with the power of the atom, of magnetism, of electricity, of light and even sound all in attempting to harness the very forces of nature—to find "better" ways to kill people in larger quantities.
 
In reality, the 20th century was merely a magnified example of many earlier periods of man's history. Previous centuries saw European nations fight each other to exhaustion over decades of continuous religious and political wars.
 
Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun with  their wars of conquest spread terror and death over great swaths of Asia and Europe.
 
Rome lived and died by the sword, as did all the great empires of history. Our time is no more violent...we just more abit more efficient at killing people in mass
 
Even some of the great men of the Bible became caught up in man's violent nature. To rescue Lot, Abraham took on a confederacy of kings and prevailed (Genesis 14:14-16). Josephus records that Moses was commander of Egypt's armies before God called him, and he himself writes that he killed an Egyptian who was beating an Israelite (Exodus 2:11-12). Joshua led the forces of Israel in the wilderness and eventually conquered much of the Promised Land. Judges like Gideon, Jephthah, and Samson won mighty victories. David fought so many wars and killed so many men that God denied him the opportunity to build Him a Temple (I Chronicles 22:7-8; 28:3).
 
Yet, the Bible predicts that the time of the end will be the bloodiest period that mankind will ever experience (Matthew 24:21-22). Thousands, millions, even billions of people will die in calamity after calamity—some "acts of God," some "natural," some man made. 
 
Where i beg you will this world ever find peace or live in peace? Peace will only come when Christ Arrives, the Antichrist will rule in chaos by a grip of fear not in order to create peace

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#15
ARGOSY

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I agree there will be a time of peace. But just like the rise of the EU was seen as a progression of negotiations, I believe the future peace will be the same. The sudden appearance of the man of sin will co-ordinate all these peace efforts. Where we differ is that I don't believe an actual peace treaty is the event to watch out for, the main event in Christians' warning calendar is the appearance of the man of sin. As per Matthew 24, Mark 13, 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13, this event will be accompanied by major deceiving signs and wonders. It will be unmissable. The focus on an actual peace treaty confuses us into believing the period of peace will occur before the 42 months of the reign of the beast, instead of during the 42 months reign of the beast.

 

 

Well I do believe a specific peace treaty for Jerusalem will be made, and it will be public, just as the last one that was attempted in Oslo.

 

I agree our Lord Jesus made the "abomination of desolation" idol being placed in the temple in Jerusalem as being one of the main events to watch out for. In Luke 21 He even said for those of His in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem in that time.

 

But how will those of His in the nations know about all that, so as to stay out of Jerusalem at that time? I think it will be obvious, because the false worship of the Antichrist, the coming pseudo-Christ which our Lord Jesus warned of, will be a world-wide event, not just a required worship only for those in Jerusalem. Our Lord's warning of a pseudo-Christ that would fool even His very elect if possible comes with the idea of a world-king.

 

 

 

I agree with all this.

 
Not only do I believe the peace pact in Jerusalem by the Antichrist will be public, but the dead bodies of the two witnesses laying in the street of Jerusalem will be televised world-wide. Otherwise how will the nations see their dead bodies laying in the street as written in Rev.11?

 

 

Yes it could be televised.


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#16
ARGOSY

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You admit the NT does not mention any peace treaty but yet you still subscribe to it....

 

I agree there will be a time of peace.

 

......my question then is based on what?

 

I can accept that it is an opinion, but it would appear your stating it as fact? 

 

 

I don't subscribe to a future "7 year" peace treaty, but I do believe there will be world peace that would most likely involve some negotiations, call them peace treaties if you like. The bible mentions the period of peace, but does not mention any peace treaty in the NT.

 

You can see in the Ezekiel/Armageddon thread, that I believe the Ezekiel 39 war is at the end of the tribulation. Ezekiel 38/39 refer to Israel as at peace and unsuspecting, which is contrary to their current status. So this is where we can see this Middle Eastern peace during the great tribulation.

 

Then in Revelation 13, the beast rules over all the peoples of earth for the final 42 months, if this is true then I don't see why there would be wars when the entire earth is centrally controlled. 

 

In 1 Thessalonians 5:3 we see that the destruction on the day of the Lord comes suddenly, while people are saying "peace and safety". 

 

Revelation 12 refers to the woman (symbol of Israel) having 3.5 years of safety during the final period of 3.5 years of Satan's wrath on earth. So Israel has a period of safety during the great tribulation.

 

Daniel 11 refers to the antichrist being alarmed from reports from the north and the east. So this final war is a surprise to him (implies the war is after a period of peace)


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#17
inchrist

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Argosy

 

You can see in the Ezekiel/Armageddon thread, that I believe the Ezekiel 39 war is at the end of the tribulation. Ezekiel 38/39 refer to Israel as at peace and unsuspecting, which is contrary to their current status. So this is where we can see this Middle Eastern peace during the great tribulation.

 

 

If we look at Ezek 38:11 which I remember talking to Spock about

 

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely,

 

If we look at unwalled villages it means perâzâh
 
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
open region, hamlet, unwalled village, open country
 
Please not open country and open region....it is exactly what Israel is today with its border disputes, noting the Green line which is temporary geographic border as well as the blue line which is known as the withdrawal line and is not even a legally demarcated international boundary. Lastly the we know the borders with Syria are still in dispute.
 
Rest - The meaning for rest and peace must be viewed in the rest from their scatterings among'st the nations. They are at rest and peace in the sense of finally being settled in there own land...no longer homeless.
 
Dwell Safely - is to be dwelling in security....Israel has one of the best security systems in the world.
 
In light of this view the other translations
 
New Living Translation
You will say, 'Israel is an unprotected land filled with unwalled villages! I will march against her and destroy these people who live in such confidence!
 
International Standard Version
and boasting, "I'm going to invade a land comprised of open country that is at rest, its people living confidently,

 

Ezek 38:11 already meets the conditions for an invasion


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#18
ARGOSY

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Argosy

 

You can see in the Ezekiel/Armageddon thread, that I believe the Ezekiel 39 war is at the end of the tribulation. Ezekiel 38/39 refer to Israel as at peace and unsuspecting, which is contrary to their current status. So this is where we can see this Middle Eastern peace during the great tribulation.

 

 

If we look at Ezek 38:11 which I remember talking to Spock about

 

And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely,

 

If we look at unwalled villages it means perâzâh
 
Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition
open region, hamlet, unwalled village, open country
 
Please not open country and open region....it is exactly what Israel is today with its border disputes, noting the Green line which is temporary geographic border as well as the blue line which is known as the withdrawal line and is not even a legally demarcated international boundary. Lastly the we know the borders with Syria are still in dispute.
 
Rest - The meaning for rest and peace must be viewed in the rest from their scatterings among'st the nations. They are at rest and peace in the sense of finally being settled in there own land...no longer homeless.
 
Dwell Safely - is to be dwelling in security....Israel has one of the best security systems in the world.
 
In light of this view the other translations
 
New Living Translation
You will say, 'Israel is an unprotected land filled with unwalled villages! I will march against her and destroy these people who live in such confidence!
 
International Standard Version
and boasting, "I'm going to invade a land comprised of open country that is at rest, its people living confidently,

 

Ezek 38:11 already meets the conditions for an invasion

 

I hear your view, but when I read Ezekiel 38 and 39 it speaks to me of a future Israel that is a little more secure and at peace than now. But I hope you also understand my view that although I don't feel we need to watch for an actual peace treaty; there are a few reasons why I feel there will be a period of peace.  So my view isn't contradictory if you understand it correctly.


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#19
inchrist

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I hear your view, but when I read Ezekiel 38 and 39 it speaks to me of a future Israel that is a little more secure and at peace than now. But I hope you also understand my view that although I don't feel we need to watch for an actual peace treaty; there are a few reasons why I feel there will be a period of peace.  So my view isn't contradictory if you understand it correctly.

 

 

Opinions are fine, and I can respect your opinions, but when they get stated as fact then one must investigated it...Though my personal opinion is you have too much faith in humanity if you think there's going to be a period of peace.

 

However where we can agree and find middle ground is we need not watch for a peace treaty.


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#20
ARGOSY

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I hear your view, but when I read Ezekiel 38 and 39 it speaks to me of a future Israel that is a little more secure and at peace than now. But I hope you also understand my view that although I don't feel we need to watch for an actual peace treaty; there are a few reasons why I feel there will be a period of peace.  So my view isn't contradictory if you understand it correctly.

 

 

Opinions are fine, and I can respect your opinions, but when they get stated as fact then one must investigated it...Though my personal opinion is you have too much faith in humanity if you think there's going to be a period of peace.

 

However where we can agree and find middle ground is we need not watch for a peace treaty.

 

 

Its not that I trust human nature, I'm trusting in the wording of the bible that indicates a one world government through the beast ruling over all nations. What do you think about the beast's 42 month rule over all nations as per Revelation 13?  Surely the fact that he rules the whole world is indicative of some form of world peace?


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