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What are your views on giving? What does the Bible say?

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I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?
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I will have disagreement on this because I do not believe in tithing. I accept that we are to give as we are able and as God blesses us and if we are able we are to give with a generous heart to cover those who are not able to give much. The woman who gave a mite gave more than those who gave of their plenty.

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I will have disagreement on this because I do not believe in tithing. I accept that we are to give as we are able and as God blesses us and if we are able we are to give with a generous heart to cover those who are not able to give much. The woman who gave a mite gave more than those who gave of their plenty.

Do you realize your contradiction?

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I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

Just some quick verses in response

We are blessed to give

1.

"Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me. I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "

We are to give all as Jesus gave it all, not just what God has enriched and blessed us with but even give our lives if necessary

2.

But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Whatever we give in obedience to the Lord keep secret and give it with love knowing God Himself is our great reward and our true riches

3. Luke 6:38

“Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

4. Matthew 6:3-4

"But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

In Christ, Pat

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I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

Just some quick verses in response

We are blessed to give

1.

"Yes, you yourselves know that these hands have provided for my necessities, and for those who were with me. I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "

We are to give all as Jesus gave it all, not just what God has enriched and blessed us with but even give our lives if necessary

2.

But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Whatever we give in obedience to the Lord keep secret and give it with love knowing God Himself is our great reward and our true riches

3. Luke 6:38

“Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”

4. Matthew 6:3-4

"But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

In Christ, Pat

 

Thank you. These are very helpful.

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I will have disagreement on this because I do not believe in tithing. I accept that we are to give as we are able and as God blesses us and if we are able we are to give with a generous heart to cover those who are not able to give much. The woman who gave a mite gave more than those who gave of their plenty.

Do you realize your contradiction?

I will have disagreement on this because I do not believe in tithing. I accept that we are to give as we are able and as God blesses us and if we are able we are to give with a generous heart to cover those who are not able to give much. The woman who gave a mite gave more than those who gave of their plenty.

Do you realize your contradiction?

No contradiction, the rich only tithed, the widow woman gave all she had from her love of The Lord.

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I will have disagreement on this because I do not believe in tithing. I accept that we are to give as we are able and as God blesses us and if we are able we are to give with a generous heart to cover those who are not able to give much. The woman who gave a mite gave more than those who gave of their plenty.

Do you realize your contradiction?

 

I will have disagreement on this because I do not believe in tithing. I accept that we are to give as we are able and as God blesses us and if we are able we are to give with a generous heart to cover those who are not able to give much. The woman who gave a mite gave more than those who gave of their plenty.

Do you realize your contradiction?

No contradiction, the rich only tithed, the widow woman gave all she had from her love of The Lord.

 

Yes, it was a contradiction. You said "we are to give as we are able" and then brought up the story of the woman who gave all she had. This was a parable. She didn't "give as she was able". She gave it all.

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

 

Other then that a cheerful giver is looked fondly on by God.  I know whatever I give to the poor I get back.  Like throwing something out in the ocean it will come back to me in some way.  I have had experiences with this and it's definently a reality.  What you give out of the goodness of your heart you will receive.  But "by what measure you use it will be measured back to you"  so consider that.  

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

 

The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

 

The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

 

You completely missed my post.

Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot.  Some preachers are even atheists.

 

And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted.

Edited by Wildstar
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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

 

The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

 

You completely missed my post.

Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot.  Some preachers are even atheists.

 

And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted.

 

No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

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I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

 

I would tend to agree with Littlelambseativy. Tithing was a command given to Israel in the OT. Feel free to look these passages up in context but here are some thoughts...

 

Numbers 18:21-24  shows that the tithe was given by the Lord to the Levite tribe of Israel. It was a tax if you will for the nation of Israel to support the Temple (precursor was the tent) and the workers of the Temple.

In Lev. 27:30-32  the Jews were told to give a tithe to the Lord according to Levitical law.

In Deut. 14:22-23 the tithe was given as instruction to Israel (Jews) based on what the land yielded (their earnings). Particularly the wine, grain, oil, and flocks.

In 2 Chron. 31:5-6  the people of Israel gave in abundance of the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, the produce of the field, and their flocks.

The OT Law required multiple tithes 1) one for the Levites paid yearly, 2) another one for the use of the temple and the feasts paid yearly, and 3) one for the poor of the land to be paid every 3 years (as well as orphans, widows, and foreigners see Deut. 14:28-29).

 

This would result on average to a 23.3 percent tithe of seed and flocks from one’s annual produce from the land.

So if we wanted to follow OT tithing as Believers we would need to follow this set of rules and it would only apply to land owners. Do you see brother?

Or perhaps I'd ask for clarification as to what you mean when you say "I know we are to give our tithes..."?

God bless,

GE

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Tithing is not commanded to the church in the NT.  10% is a good benchmark but the standard for giving in the NT is in accordance with what one feels led to give and that it be given cheerfully.

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Money = time = life spent on getting it. Money = life, no wonder people don't want to give it up. Of course, laying down one's life and praying for the lost, or witnessing to others, or just living a Godly life in front of those in darkness is giving, and not just 10% but 100%.

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

 

The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

 

You completely missed my post.

Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot.  Some preachers are even atheists.

 

And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted.

 

No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

 

How is it absurd?  Just do a google search.  Or look at the vatican.  People use God to make money.

 

I dont go to church anymore.  I find it soulless and contrary to my faith anyways.  So to each their own.  Also Goldeneagle provided some scripture as a counter argument to your tithing thing.  

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A. To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  

B. The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

 

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

 

Actually Wildstar is both correct and incorrect in the assesment above.

A. It is true above that the tithe was given as a command to Israel to support the Temple, Levites (priests), and to help the poor (along with widows, orphans, and foreigners who lived in Israel see above.

B. This is not completely true above. Particularly among Evangelical or Protestant churches.Yes we are told to give to the poor, feed the hungry, and give water to the thirsty. (See Matt. 25:35-40 for example) But that is certainly not all we as Believers are told in Scripture.

Perhaps it is true that one person "owns" the church property for certain denominations and even cult-like televangelists types. But in many if not most cases (think Baptists, Bible churches, Non-denominational churches) churches are self-governed and the church property is managed by a board of trustees and/or elders/deacons. This is to facilitate accountability and to help avoid one person from believing he or she owns the church property (or the people who really make up the Church).

There is Scriptural support that it is the will of God to support teachers of the Gospel finanically. At least that is how I see it. Perhaps not fancy cars, multiple houses, private jets, ets. That is one extreme where teachers of the Gospel abuse their position IMO. Yet how do you view the following passages for example? (Feel free to look them up in context)

 

1 Timothy 5:17-18

17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

 

Galatians 6:6

Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.

God bless,

GE

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The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

 

You completely missed my post.

Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot.  Some preachers are even atheists.

 

And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted.

 

@ Gigman7

I agree the local church needs money to function. Not just for the wages of preachers or ministers but to pay the light bills, water bills, provide opportunities for benevolence (giving to the needy), paying for musical instruments, paying for audio/video equipment, etc.

@Wildstar

How many preachers do you know? Curious. You use the term "most" which would imply that over 50% would be simply out for the money. What evidence/research do you have to support this claim that most preachers are out for the money or that some preachers are even atheists? Curious if this is an opinion and what it is founded on.

While the tithe or 10% is misused or twisted it is not the command given to the Believer. We Believers are called to be generous givers and good stewards of what God has given us. 

God gives resources to us as Believers 1) provide for ourselves and our families, 2) support the work of God's Kingdom, and 3) give rersources to those who are in need. I'm going to start a seperate thread on Stewardship:

God bless,

GE

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Tithing is not commanded to the church in the NT.  10% is a good benchmark but the standard for giving in the NT is in accordance with what one feels led to give and that it be given cheerfully.

I agree with you brother for the most part care to back your statements with Scripture? That is what the OP was asking.

10% is a good goal. However, a Believer could start giving 1% or even just $5 to begin the habit of generous giving would you agree? :thumbsup:

God bless,

GE

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No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

 

How is it absurd?  Just do a google search.  Or look at the vatican.  People use God to make money.

 

I dont go to church anymore.  I find it soulless and contrary to my faith anyways.  So to each their own.  Also Goldeneagle provided some scripture as a counter argument to your tithing thing.  

 

I'm starting a new thread here in order not to derail this one about this comment in bold.

 

 

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No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

Hi Gigman,

I agree with you brother. We never ask for money or a tithe but our own church provides more than 22% to missions outside the church and a tithe would only be 10%. The member usually vote to raise this every single year and we have great joy in being able to do so. Finances are then a reflection of your heart. Where your treasure is there your heart will be also. So, if we treasure the Lord, then we will treasure the work of the Lord and finance it as we can. I've personally never been caught short in practicing this and I can't explain why but certainly there must be an individual desire to bless the Lord just as he has bless us. Now a church's finances should reflect a love of God and for ministry the same as an individual so quite frankly a tithe is a fairly minimal number since we are not steeped in legalism but a love for the Lord's work among us. This is something as members that we should look for - so not just an individual's heart should be blessed to give but also collectively we should seek that our church and its membership is striving to do the same our of love for Christ.

In Christ, Pat

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I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

 

I would tend to agree with Littlelambseativy. Tithing was a command given to Israel in the OT. Feel free to look these passages up in context but here are some thoughts...

 

Numbers 18:21-24  shows that the tithe was given by the Lord to the Levite tribe of Israel. It was a tax if you will for the nation of Israel to support the Temple (precursor was the tent) and the workers of the Temple.

In Lev. 27:30-32  the Jews were told to give a tithe to the Lord according to Levitical law.

In Deut. 14:22-23 the tithe was given as instruction to Israel (Jews) based on what the land yielded (their earnings). Particularly the wine, grain, oil, and flocks.

In 2 Chron. 31:5-6  the people of Israel gave in abundance of the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, the produce of the field, and their flocks.

The OT Law required multiple tithes 1) one for the Levites paid yearly, 2) another one for the use of the temple and the feasts paid yearly, and 3) one for the poor of the land to be paid every 3 years (as well as orphans, widows, and foreigners see Deut. 14:28-29).

 

This would result on average to a 23.3 percent tithe of seed and flocks from one’s annual produce from the land.

So if we wanted to follow OT tithing as Believers we would need to follow this set of rules and it would only apply to land owners. Do you see brother?

Or perhaps I'd ask for clarification as to what you mean when you say "I know we are to give our tithes..."?

God bless,

GE

 

Gigman7 I noticed you started a new thread. Have you had a chance to review and study this?

 

The reason I ask is there is more to share particularly about giving to the poor, widows and orphans, and giving freely. However, curious if you are wanting to discuss this topic further. :thumbsup:

God bless,

GE

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I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say?

 

 

I have presented Biblical evidence that tithing was a command and tax given to Israel to support the Levites & Temple, festivals, and in helping the poor/widows/orphans/foreigners.

So tithing is for Israel? But what about the Church? But giving to the poor is certainly a command for the Believer still today. Feel free to look up these passages in context.

Wisdom in the Proverbs point to giving and giving generously.

Proverbs 3:27

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it.

Proverbs 22:9

He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Also in the NT Jesus told us to give in secret. We are also to help those who need clothing or food.

 

Matthew 6:3-4

But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Luke 3:11

And he would answer and say to them, “The man who has two tunics is to share with him who has none; and he who has food is to do likewise.”

Regarding lending money to people... Instead just give as you are able and led by the Holy Spirit.

 

Luke 6:30

Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.

 

Jesus said it was better to give than to receive.

Acts 20:35

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Each person must give as they have purposed in their heart. As Believers we are to be led by the Holy Spirit so hopefully what is in our hearts is a result of cheerful Spirit-led giving. :)

2 Cor. 9:7

Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Does this make sense?

God bless,

GE

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To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes.  The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like.  It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God.  If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty.

This is SO wrong in so many ways.

 

prove it

 

The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor?  

 

You completely missed my post.

Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot.  Some preachers are even atheists.

 

And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted.

 

No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation.

 

How is it absurd?  Just do a google search.  Or look at the vatican.  People use God to make money.

 

Because you said that most are out for money. That is absurd.

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