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Endtime Layout

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This is based on the events and times given in the Book of Daniel, and in our Lord Jesus' Olivet Discourse, and His Revelation, and portions of the OT Books of God's prophets. The * marker is to show what events occur on the day of Christ's coming known as "the day of the Lord". The (p.) stands for a 'period' of time.

 

 

[---------------------------------------Dan.9:27 "one week"-------------------------------------]

[---p.1---------][----p.2----------][--- p.3---------][----------------------p.4----------------------][*]

[--220 days--][--1040 days---][-AOD setup-][-was 1260 days, now "five months"-][*]

 

p.1 & p.2 = 1260 days of the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (one seven). The period of a 'week' per the 70 weeks prophecy equals a 7 year period per the historical event timing of the previously fulfilled 69 weeks. The final 70th yet unfulfilled week is this "one week" of Dan.9:27.

 

p.1 = prep time for the daily sacrifices and building of the new temple in Jerusalem.

 

p.2 = the time of the re-instituted daily sacrifice and temple worship; the time of those who worship in the temple in Rev.11:1.

 

p.3 is the midst of the "one week" (7 years) when the Antichrist ends the daily sacrifice and substitutes with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" in the temple, demanding all to bow in worship.

 

p. 4 is the "great tribulation" timing, the 42 month reign of the "dragon" of Rev.13, the 42 months the Gentiles are given to tread the holy city per Rev.11:2. It's the timing of the locust working with the pseudo-Christ setup in Jerusalem as king of the world, i.e., the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. Christ shortened this 1260 days to "five months" per the time of the stinging by the locusts of Rev.9 and His declaration in Matt.24:21-26. The locusts are told to not hurt any green thing, and cannot kill anyone not sealed with God's sealing. It is the time of God's two witnesses prophesying in Jerusalem for 1260 days before they are killed by the beast that ascends up from the bottomless pit.

 

(*) - "the day of the Lord" = day of Christ's second coming to gather His Church. Day of the battle of Armageddon and Gog/Magog, His coming destroying the Antichrist's armies that will attempt to come upon Israel on that last day of this world. It is the time of God's consuming fire per 2 Pet.3:10 and the OT prophets, burning man's works off the surface of the earth like how the flood of Noah's day destroyed man's works then. It is the day when those still alive on earth, including Christ's Church, will be changed at the "twinkling of an eye" to the "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump". It is the time of the 7th trumpet - 3rd final woe. It is the time of the 6th seal with Christ's enemies seeking to hide themselves, wishing for the hills and mountains to fall on them (shame). It is the time when those of Christ's Church did not wait on Him will appear in shame loosing their "garments". It is the time when Jesus will shut the door on the five foolish virgins. It is the first day of Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

 

Does that help anyone?

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I like the visual.  It would be interesting to see others post theirs too.

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I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

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Please define "AOD" for me, thank you.

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Please define "AOD" for me, thank you.

 

The abomination of desolation

Daniel 9:27    Daniel 12:11   Matthew 24:15   Mark 13:14

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[quote name="ARGOSY"

The abomination of desolation

Daniel 9:27 Daniel 12:11 Matthew 24:15 Mark 13:14

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I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

 

Since you appear to include a short period "of Jewish openness" during that 3.5 years of the tribulation, does that mean you believe some of the Jews that are not 'sealed' with God's seal, other than the 144,000 will repent and believe on Jesus just prior to His appearing?

 

I have that hope too, but I don't believe it will happen, because God has a purpose why only 144,000 of Israel are sealed in that time.

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I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

 

Since you appear to include a short period "of Jewish openness" during that 3.5 years of the tribulation, does that mean you believe some of the Jews that are not 'sealed' with God's seal, other than the 144,000 will repent and believe on Jesus just prior to His appearing?

 

I have that hope too, but I don't believe it will happen, because God has a purpose why only 144,000 of Israel are sealed in that time.

 

 

I'm sure there are a special group of 144 000 that will receive salvation late in the tribulation. But I believe many other Jews will be saved during the tribulation.

 

I relate the openness of Jews to the "fullness of the nations"... meaning the gospel has reached its international target and can then be focussed on the Jews again. This is the same moment as the "victory of the church" as described in Rev 12, when the church overcomes Satan through our testimony and the blood of the lamb. This is when Satan comes crashing down to earth in anger, but yet Israel is protected during that final phase.  So we have a protection period which overlaps an openness period for the Jews. So even under the rule of the antichrist, Jews will have their blessing until the death of the two (Jewish?) witnesses and the attack of Armageddon ends the 3.5 years of protection of Israel.

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I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

 

Since you appear to include a short period "of Jewish openness" during that 3.5 years of the tribulation, does that mean you believe some of the Jews that are not 'sealed' with God's seal, other than the 144,000 will repent and believe on Jesus just prior to His appearing?

 

I have that hope too, but I don't believe it will happen, because God has a purpose why only 144,000 of Israel are sealed in that time.

 

 

I'm sure there are a special group of 144 000 that will receive salvation late in the tribulation. But I believe many other Jews will be saved during the tribulation.

 

I relate the openness of Jews to the "fullness of the nations"... meaning the gospel has reached its international target and can then be focussed on the Jews again. This is the same moment as the "victory of the church" as described in Rev 12, when the church overcomes Satan through our testimony and the blood of the lamb. This is when Satan comes crashing down to earth in anger, but yet Israel is protected during that final phase.  So we have a protection period which overlaps an openness period for the Jews. So even under the rule of the antichrist, Jews will have their blessing until the death of the two (Jewish?) witnesses and the attack of Armageddon ends the 3.5 years of protection of Israel.

 

I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

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I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

 

Since you appear to include a short period "of Jewish openness" during that 3.5 years of the tribulation, does that mean you believe some of the Jews that are not 'sealed' with God's seal, other than the 144,000 will repent and believe on Jesus just prior to His appearing?

 

I have that hope too, but I don't believe it will happen, because God has a purpose why only 144,000 of Israel are sealed in that time.

 

 

I'm sure there are a special group of 144 000 that will receive salvation late in the tribulation. But I believe many other Jews will be saved during the tribulation.

 

I relate the openness of Jews to the "fullness of the nations"... meaning the gospel has reached its international target and can then be focussed on the Jews again. This is the same moment as the "victory of the church" as described in Rev 12, when the church overcomes Satan through our testimony and the blood of the lamb. This is when Satan comes crashing down to earth in anger, but yet Israel is protected during that final phase.  So we have a protection period which overlaps an openness period for the Jews. So even under the rule of the antichrist, Jews will have their blessing until the death of the two (Jewish?) witnesses and the attack of Armageddon ends the 3.5 years of protection of Israel.

 

I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

I don't understand your point. The abomination appears before the start of the great tribulation, the last 3.5 years. all the 3.5 year periods mentioned in Daniel 7, Daniel 12, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 ALL fit easily into the final great tribulation.

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But the pre-trib rapture don't fit into the last 3 1/2 years :lightbulb2:

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I focus on just the last 3.5 years, because the NT has no mention of an earlier  "peace treaty" and Daniel 9:27 can be interpreted in many ways:

 

AOD setup --------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------Second coming/gathering of the elect  (Matthew 24)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of the antichrist  (Dan 9:27)

AOD setup---------------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------End of antichrist/resurrection (Dan 11:45-dan 12)

Witnesses Preach------------------------------------3.5 years-------------------------------7th trumpet/last trumpet  (Rev11)   

Fullness of the (gospel to the) Nations-------period  of Jewish openness------------- (Romans 11:25)

Success of the gospel/Satan falls)-------------3.5 years of Jewish protection---------- Rev 12

Satan falls to earth (great tribulation)---------3.5 years of Christian persecution----- Rev 12

 

Beast comes to power----------------------------3.5 years of Christian persecution-------Rev 13

Beast comes to power ---------------------------3.5 years of the beasts rule--------------Rev 13

Antichrist comes to power -----------------------3.5 years of saint persecution------------God/saints rule earth  (Dan 7)

 

Since you appear to include a short period "of Jewish openness" during that 3.5 years of the tribulation, does that mean you believe some of the Jews that are not 'sealed' with God's seal, other than the 144,000 will repent and believe on Jesus just prior to His appearing?

 

I have that hope too, but I don't believe it will happen, because God has a purpose why only 144,000 of Israel are sealed in that time.

 

 

I'm sure there are a special group of 144 000 that will receive salvation late in the tribulation. But I believe many other Jews will be saved during the tribulation.

 

I relate the openness of Jews to the "fullness of the nations"... meaning the gospel has reached its international target and can then be focussed on the Jews again. This is the same moment as the "victory of the church" as described in Rev 12, when the church overcomes Satan through our testimony and the blood of the lamb. This is when Satan comes crashing down to earth in anger, but yet Israel is protected during that final phase.  So we have a protection period which overlaps an openness period for the Jews. So even under the rule of the antichrist, Jews will have their blessing until the death of the two (Jewish?) witnesses and the attack of Armageddon ends the 3.5 years of protection of Israel.

 

I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

I don't understand your point. The abomination appears before the start of the great tribulation, the last 3.5 years. all the 3.5 year periods mentioned in Daniel 7, Daniel 12, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13 ALL fit easily into the final great tribulation.

 

It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to be divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

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But the pre-trib rapture don't fit into the last 3 1/2 years :lightbulb2:

Exactly: it will come before the entire week begins!

 

LAMAD

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It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

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I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

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I have an apple and I wish to divide in into two halves, I take a knife and cut it in two and I have two approximate halves. (I could do the same with a pie.) what I have left is TWO HALVES.

 

Now, I challenge anyone to attempt to cut an apple in half if half is all one has. One would end up with quarters not halves. It is the abomination that divides the week. This abomination will take place in Rev. 11.  How could the man of sin abominate and cut a week into two halves if half a week is all there is left? It is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Therefore, all the entire 70th week is still future. When the abomination takes place, the first half of the week will be the 42 months just before the abomination. In Revelation that would be the events of chapters 8-10 and in chapter 11 up to the 7th trumpet. The Trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

 

It is not my problem of you cannot understand what is written. It is a MYTH that the 7th trumpet is at the end. It is in chapter 11. That means, 10 chapters were written before it, and and 11 chapters after it. Do you imagine God was confused as how to write history in advance? Do you imagine John was just playing with numbers for sequencing? When you learn that what is written in one chapter will happen in real life AFTER what is written in previous chapters, and what is written in later chapters will ALWAYS happen AFTER previous chapters (with minor exceptions for parenthesis) in the book of Revelation, you will then be on your way to understanding this book. If you think you need to rearrange (as the 7th trumpet being the "end") you are still confused.

 

ALWAYS REMEMBER:

 

AXIOM on Revelation:

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology, is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

 

By the way, have you TRIED to cut an apple in half, throw away one half (or eat it) then try to cut it in half again and end up still with one half? It is simply impossible. John shows us TWO HALVES of the week in Revelation.

 

 

LAMAD

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It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

 

Did you look up the Hebrew word that was translated as "midst" and see what it means? It means to divide in half.

 

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

 

This speaks of a "week" which we know to be a week of years, or 7 years. Daniel tells us that in the exact middle of the week (the week divided in half) someone will cause the sacrifices to cease. This event then will come at the exact middle of the 7 years, and this is proven 7 times in scripture as both Daniel and John speak the last half of this week.

 

So the bible CERTAINLY tells us the week will be divided. Read it again; it is right there.

 

LAMAD

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It is not my problem of you cannot understand what is written. It is a MYTH that the 7th trumpet is at the end. It is in chapter 11. That means, 10 chapters were written before it, and and 11 chapters after it. Do you imagine God was confused as how to write history in advance? Do you imagine John was just playing with numbers for sequencing? When you learn that what is written in one chapter will happen in real life AFTER what is written in previous chapters, and what is written in later chapters will ALWAYS happen AFTER previous chapters (with minor exceptions for parenthesis) in the book of Revelation, you will then be on your way to understanding this book. If you think you need to rearrange (as the 7th trumpet being the "end") you are still confused.

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

 

 

ALWAYS REMEMBER:

 

AXIOM on Revelation:

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology, is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

 

By the way, have you TRIED to cut an apple in half, throw away one half (or eat it) then try to cut it in half again and end up still with one half? It is simply impossible. John shows us TWO HALVES of the week in Revelation.

 

 

LAMAD

 

 

I have no problem reading and understanding these Scriptures as written:

 

 

Rev.10

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

 

Rev.11

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

 

The doctrine you're following that adds 3.5 years of tribulation after that 7th trumpet does not align with God's Word.

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It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

 

Did you look up the Hebrew word that was translated as "midst" and see what it means? It means to divide in half.

 

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

 

This speaks of a "week" which we know to be a week of years, or 7 years. Daniel tells us that in the exact middle of the week (the week divided in half) someone will cause the sacrifices to cease. This event then will come at the exact middle of the 7 years, and this is proven 7 times in scripture as both Daniel and John speak the last half of this week.

 

So the bible CERTAINLY tells us the week will be divided. Read it again; it is right there.

 

LAMAD

 

 

 

Yes the week is divided that's for sure. But does the antichrist divide the week?  MOST translations have a different person who confirms the covenant from the person who sets up the abomination.  

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It is very simple: get an apple, and cut it in half. The knife you use to cut it represents the abomination. Throw one half away, or eat and and save the other half for tomorrow. Imagine tomorrow is 2000 years later. Now take the half of an apple left and try to divide in in half and still end up with a half.  Remember,  the abomination DIVIDES the week into two halves. Therefore at the time of the abomination, there must be an entire week to divided, so as to end up with 42 months, and 1260 days.

 

If you say the first half was finished in 32 AD, then it would be 2000 years dividing the week, NOT the abomination.

 

Yes, I agree, all the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, given in days, months and years all are for the last half of the week. But the first half must be there to make a whole to be divided by the abomination.  And that is EXACTLY what the book of Revelation shows us. The abomination takes place in chapter 11. What events PRECEDE chapter 11? Of course the trumpet judgements. They will take place in the FIRST HALF of the week.

 

LAMAD

 

 

The bible does not say that the antichrist splits any period in half.   This is just an assumption coming from the standard dispensationalist interpretation of Daniel 9:27

 

Did you look up the Hebrew word that was translated as "midst" and see what it means? It means to divide in half.

 

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

 

This speaks of a "week" which we know to be a week of years, or 7 years. Daniel tells us that in the exact middle of the week (the week divided in half) someone will cause the sacrifices to cease. This event then will come at the exact middle of the 7 years, and this is proven 7 times in scripture as both Daniel and John speak the last half of this week.

 

So the bible CERTAINLY tells us the week will be divided. Read it again; it is right there.

 

LAMAD

 

 

 

Yes the week is divided that's for sure. But does the antichrist divide the week?  MOST translations have a different person who confirms the covenant from the person who sets up the abomination.  

 

I don't think so. It is preconceptions of the readers and the rules for the use of pronouns.  My point was, a week already divided into two halves by the abomination cannot be divided again and end up with halves.

 

LAMAD

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It is not my problem of you cannot understand what is written. It is a MYTH that the 7th trumpet is at the end. It is in chapter 11. That means, 10 chapters were written before it, and and 11 chapters after it. Do you imagine God was confused as how to write history in advance? Do you imagine John was just playing with numbers for sequencing? When you learn that what is written in one chapter will happen in real life AFTER what is written in previous chapters, and what is written in later chapters will ALWAYS happen AFTER previous chapters (with minor exceptions for parenthesis) in the book of Revelation, you will then be on your way to understanding this book. If you think you need to rearrange (as the 7th trumpet being the "end") you are still confused.

 

Your apple logic doesn't work with the Daniel-Revelation prophecy, mainly because what you're saying does not align with either Book.

 

Rev.10 declares when the 7th angel begins to sound, what God gave His OT prophets to write will be finished. So how can there be another 3.5 years after the 7th Trumpet? Cannot be, not if one keeps to what is actually written in God's Word.

 

 

ALWAYS REMEMBER:

 

AXIOM on Revelation:

 

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology, is immediately suspect and WILL be proven wrong.

 

By the way, have you TRIED to cut an apple in half, throw away one half (or eat it) then try to cut it in half again and end up still with one half? It is simply impossible. John shows us TWO HALVES of the week in Revelation.

 

 

LAMAD

 

 

I have no problem reading and understanding these Scriptures as written:

 

 

Rev.10

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

 

Rev.11

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

 

The doctrine you're following that adds 3.5 years of tribulation after that 7th trumpet does not align with God's Word.

 

Of course it does. you think Jesus takes physical possession the moment the kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus. You are simply wrong. God has given His word, which cannot be broken, that the Beast will have 42 months of authority AFTER the abomination. It is the very same 42 months the city will be trampled, and the very same 1260 days of witnessing and fleeing. All are about the last half of the week. That last half of the week in from the 7th trumpet to the 7th vial.

 

You do not have any authority to rearrange what John has written and attempt to put the 7th trumpet into chapter 19, when Jesus returns.

 

There IS something written in chapter 11 - written as an parenthesis - that is about the end: it is 11:7-13. The real time these events will happen will be AFTER they have testified for 1260 days, which will end just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. So they will be killed almost at the end of the week. The great earthquake when they rise is the very same earthquake we read about at the 7th vial.

 

What MYSTERY is finished at the 7th vial? It is not all mysteries, it is ONE mystery. God was 6 days creating, and on the 7th day rested. Man will have authority to rule earth for 6000 years, but on the 7 thousandth year GOD will reign. Satan has been the "god of this world" for almost 6000 years now, but when the 7th trumpet is sounded, his usurped reign will END (Adam's lease runs out) and the kingdoms of this world will be TRANSFERRED to Jesus Christ`.

 

Always remember, NO VIAL can be poured out until all 7 trumpets have sounded.

 

LAMAD

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I have no problem reading and understanding these Scriptures as written:

 

 

Rev.10

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

 

Rev.11

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

 

The doctrine you're following that adds 3.5 years of tribulation after that 7th trumpet does not align with God's Word.

 

 

Of course it does. you think Jesus takes physical possession the moment the kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus. You are simply wrong.

 

 

When those kingdoms there "become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ...", what do you think that "... and He shall reign for ever and ever" actually means???

 

I'm not the one doing any re-arranging of Scripture like you falsely claim. It's the doctrine of men you're following that is doing that...

 

 

The following is still within the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing that began in Rev.9...

 

Rev.11

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

The 7th trumpet has yet to sound at that point. There's your 42 months timing. It's the same timing those Gentiles will tread the holy city, and the same timing of the prophesying by God's two witnesses in Jerusalem before they are killed, which is pointing to the "great tribulation" timing prior to Jesus' coming.

 

So HOW can that 42 months be AFTER... the LATER Rev.11 verses about the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period???

 

This clearly shows how you have those events backwards... in your mind.

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I have no problem reading and understanding these Scriptures as written:

 

 

Rev.10

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.

 

Rev.11

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

 

The doctrine you're following that adds 3.5 years of tribulation after that 7th trumpet does not align with God's Word.

 

Of course it does. you think Jesus takes physical possession the moment the kingdoms of the world are transferred to Jesus. You are simply wrong.

 

When those kingdoms there "become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ...", what do you think that "... and He shall reign for ever and ever" actually means???

 

I'm not the one doing any re-arranging of Scripture like you falsely claim. It's the doctrine of men you're following that is doing that...

 

 

The following is still within the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing that began in Rev.9...

 

Rev.11

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

The 7th trumpet has yet to sound at that point. There's your 42 months timing. It's the same timing those Gentiles will tread the holy city, and the same timing of the prophesying by God's two witnesses in Jerusalem before they are killed, which is pointing to the "great tribulation" timing prior to Jesus' coming.

 

So HOW can that 42 months be AFTER... the LATER Rev.11 verses about the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period???

 

This clearly shows how you have those events backwards... in your mind.

*** Removed personal attack *** This is John's chronology:

 

1. The man of sin shows up, probably 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint: 7th trumpet The city will be trampled for the next 42 months.

2. The two witnesses show up (probably seconds after the man of sin) and begin testifying*. They will testify 1260 days parallel with 42 M.

3. 3 1/2 days later the man of sin will enter the temple and the daily sacrifices will cease. It is the abomination that divides the week.

4. Seconds after the 7th trumpet those in Judea begin fleeing.  (12:6)

5. Seconds after the 7th trumpet Michael goes after Satan to cast him down.

6. Those fleeing will have supernatural protection for 3 1/2 years. (All counts begins at the verse of mention.) 12:14

 

*The two witnesses will testify for 1260 days which will take them to just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. They will be killed and lay dead for these 3 1/2 days. They will rise up at the 7th vial when ALL the Old Testament saints rise.

 

If you disagree on any of these points, we can discuss WHY you disagree.

 

He shall reign for ever and ever

 

This means that the kingdoms of the world will never again be taken away from God. Jesus will rule forever. Very simple, basic English. It is TRUTH and I agree with it. However, Jesus does not return to earth until chapter 19, which will be 3 1/2 years later. Chapters 12-18 will take place between the 7th trumpet sounding and Jesus returning. This also is truth. If you disagree, you are rearranging the book.

 

The following is still within the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing that began in Rev.9..

 

Do you imagine that 6th trumpet will sound for days on end? WOW! That angel must have some set of lungs!  No, the 6th trumpet sounds and then QUITS sounding. And the events assigned to that 6th trumpet take place: one third of mankind are killed. BELIEVE IT, for it is written. Killed means DEAD killed. Don't spiritualize it, for it is meant to be taken literally. Notice what John wrote next: "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not"  So one third of earth's population will be killed at the 6th trumpet judgment. God will do exactly what He said He would do: destroy the world and the sinners in the world. This 6th trumpet is a good start. The end of chapter 9 is the END of the 6th trumpet. We could say that the events of chapter 10 come AFTER the 6th trumpet. The events of chapter 11 come AFTER the 6th trumpet.  So OF COURSE the city being trampled and the two witnesses testifying will come AFTER the 6th trumpet judgment has come and gone.

 

Right; at the point that the city BEGINS to be trampled and the point that the two witnesses BEGIN to testify will be 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet marks the middle of the week, so this is certainly before as you said. Keep in mind, this is the BEGINNING of these times, and the count (42 months and 1260 days) will BEGIN here.

 

There's your 42 months timing.

 

NO NO NO!  That is the STARTING POINT of the 42 months and 1260 days. The 7th trumpet will sound just 3 1/2 days AFTER this starting point.

 

So HOW can that 42 months be AFTER... the LATER Rev.11 verses about the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe period???

 *** Removed personal attack *** The 42 months do not all take place in 11:1-2! That is just the STARTING POINT.

The 1260 days do not take place in 11:3. That is the STARTING POINT.

 

What you are missing is that 11:4-13 are written as a PARENTHESIS and have no bearing on chronology. In other words, verse 11:15 comes ONLY 3 1/2 days after verses 1-3.

 

John has given us 6 different parallel journeys to the end of the week:

42 months of trampling

1260 days of testifying

1260 days of fleeing

3 1/2 years of protection

42 months of authority

 

and #6, John's narrative from chapters 11 on through chapter 19 when Jesus returns.

 

All of these times run parallel, meaning at the same time. They all end at or near the 7th vial that ends the week. Salty, this is TRUTH. Any other theory will be false. Think about it.

 

LAMAD

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1. The man of sin shows up, probably 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint: 7th trumpet The city will be trampled for the next 42 months.

 

 

 

 

 

That 3.5 days application is totally unfounded, not Scripture at all, because the Rev.11 reference to 3.5 days is how long the dead bodies of God's two witnesses lay in the street of Jerusalem once they are killed by... whom? By the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit (Rev.11:7). That means the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 forward is already there, reigning in Jerusalem. Per Rev.13 the dragon is to reign 42 months. That's the same timing of Rev.11 with God's two witnesses prophesying for 1260 days before they are killed and their dead bodies left in the street for 3.5 days. Like I said, you're timing does not align with the actual written Scripture at all.

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1. The man of sin shows up, probably 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint: 7th trumpet The city will be trampled for the next 42 months.

 

 

 

 

 

That 3.5 days application is totally unfounded, not Scripture at all, because the Rev.11 reference to 3.5 days is how long the dead bodies of God's two witnesses lay in the street of Jerusalem once they are killed by... whom? By the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit (Rev.11:7). That means the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 forward is already there, reigning in Jerusalem. Per Rev.13 the dragon is to reign 42 months. That's the same timing of Rev.11 with God's two witnesses prophesying for 1260 days before they are killed and their dead bodies left in the street for 3.5 days. Like I said, you're timing does not align with the actual written Scripture at all.

 

  I will agree that John did not write that the two witnesses begin 3 1/2 days before the midpoint. But we can determine this by what John did write.

 

 

Please consider:

 

From the exact midpoint to the 7th vial that ends the week  will be 1260 days.

The city will be trampled 42 months, as shown in verses 1 & 2. This tells me the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem at this time. He MUST be in Jerusalem to enter the temple in Jerusalem, right? He comes with armies that will trample the city for 42 months. From this 42 months we know that verses 1 & 2 are VERY CLOSE to the midpoint. Maybe not to the exact day, but close enough to write 42 months. So perhaps a couple of days off from 1260? Would 3 1/2 days off be close enough to write 42 months?

 

The two witnesses show up to begin testifying AFTER the man of sin with his armies arrive in Jerusalem. it is written that they will testify for 1260 days. These days will PARALLEL the 42 months of trampling. Since they are starting their testimony just before the exact midpoint, that shows us they will die just before the 7th vial. Since John tells us they lay dead for 3 1/2 days, and then are raised, is is possible that they begin testifying 3 1/2 days before the midpoint and die 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial?

 

When we consider there is a great earthquake at the 7th vial, and a great earthquake when the two witnesses rise, is it possible that they are the very same earthquake? It is more than possible, it is VERY PROBABLE.

 

Next, I consider WHO these two witnesses will be. I am convinced they are OLD TESTAMENT saints. Next, I consider WHEN the Old Testament saints rise. I puzzled over that question for years, until I discovered that when people long dead are raised to resurrection bodies that rising will CAUSE an earthquake. (See Matthew 27:  "the earth did quake....and the graves were opened.") That earthquake at the 7th vial will be caused by the righteous dead from the Old Testament rising. I also puzzled why the marriage and supper had to wait until AFTER the 70th week. It is because God will wait for the Old Testament saints to rise, for they will be GUESTS at the marriage.

 

Since the two witnesses will be Old Testament saints, does it not make sense that they will rise with resurrection bodies with all the rest of the Old Testament saints? It does to me.

 

Therefore, LOGIC tells me the two witnesses appear and begin testifying just 3 1/2 days before the midpoint, then testify for 1260 days, taking them to just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial. they lay dead and will rise with the rest of the Old Testament saints at the 7th vial.

 

What part of this do you disagree with?

 

LAMAD

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