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Can God see into the future?

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#1
OakWood

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I would say 'no he can't'.

 

However, before I get ripped to pieces by pitchforks, I would first like to define by what is meant by 'seeing into the future'.

 

Ever since physicists have claimed that time is some sort of dimension then we've always claimed that God must have created it, because after all he create all the other dimensions. Plus, the idea that time is a dimension has also created a lot of wacky theories and some great science fiction stories. We've invented the concept of the time machine where adventurers travel into the past or into the future.We've seen this happen on Star Trek, Dr. Who and so on, but of course it's all down to man's imagination. You can't travel into the past because the past no longer exists.

 

I don't believe that time is a dimension. It doesn't exist as such. Well, it does exist but only as a concept. Time is just our way of remembering what has happened and postulating what might happen next. Time is not a book that has already been written that can be read. The future has not been created, but God may have already written the script for it. The future does not exist yet and never will exist because as soon as it becomes real, it is no longer the future but becomes the present.

 

God does not see into the future, he makes the future happen. There is no future to see into.

 

We tend to think of God as living outside of time but that's man-made thinking based on the heresies taught to us by scientists that time is some sort of physical reality that we travel through in one direction.

God does not live outside time because there is no physical time. God didn't create time, in the same way that he didn't create anything else that doesn't really exist.


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#2
Parker1

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That is a very unique point of view. :mgbowtie:


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#3
LadyC

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so can you tell me how prophecy fits into your definition of seeing into the future?


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#4
Logan

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Time definitely exists if you are the one standing in the hall waiting for your turn in the bathroom  :taped:


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#5
OakWood

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so can you tell me how prophecy fits into your definition of seeing into the future?

 

It's a bit like me telling you that tomorrow you will come with me to Disneyland. I've bought the tickets, I've decided  that we're travelling there by  by train. It's going to happen because I've planned it to happen. So it's likely that it will.

However, I'm not all-powerful. There are things more powerful than I that could stop it from happening. I could lose the tickets. You may fall ill or I may fall ill. We may miss the train. The train may be late. The train may crash. Disneyland may be closed when we get there due to a bomb scare.

God is all-powerful. Nothing or nobody can stop his plans. No accidents can happen. So what God wants to happen and attempts to make happen will happen. God can confidently predict the future because he is in complete control. He has decided what will happen in the future so he creates this future. He just wills it and it happens.

He didn't see into the future. He just determined the future.


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#6
Fez

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Ok, so why did He create the universe if He did not know what the future held?

 

If as you say He determined the future, He is almost human? You can determine your future by taking illegal drugs for instance. What you can't see is when and how it will affect you.

 

I believe God is the future, and the past, and the present.

 

And I believe He knows the history of your future.


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#7
LadyC

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for the most part i'm in agreement with you, it's just a difference in terminology. i do disagree, however, with some of what you said in the other thread about free will, i.e. whether people have a choice in salvation or not. but i'll leave that discussion in that thread.


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#8
OakWood

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Ok, so why did He create the universe if He did not know what the future held?

 

If as you say He determined the future, He is almost human? You can determine your future by taking illegal drugs for instance. What you can't see is when and how it will affect you.

 

I believe God is the future, and the past, and the present.

 

And I believe He knows the history of your future.

 

You're misunderstanding me. Of course he knows what's going to happen in the future. He planned it and he can make it happen. He knows how it will affect everything else because he knows everything else in every detail. He knows every person, every tree, every stone, every pebble, every animal and every hair on your head. He knows that when he does something, he can calculate the consequences too and change the consequences if necessary. He can make the future and determine it in every detail.


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#9
hmbld

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I believe God is beyond our future. Time has been created for our limited understanding. God can look back on our future. I don't believe God is constrained by time.
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#10
OakWood

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I believe God is beyond our future. Time has been created for our limited understanding. God can look back on our future. I don't believe God is constrained by time.

 

I never said he was. Time does not exist except as a concept in our own imaginations.


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#11
kwikphilly

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Blessings Oak

     I  believe just as Fez does & hmbld because of what He says .......I AM........I Am Alpha & Omega.....the Beginning & the End.....God Eternal

I do not believe that we have the slightest clue about dimensions or space or time.........I don't know how but I do believe that God  exists(or resides) in every dimension & He is not constrained by space or time............I think He "IS" I "AM" because it He "IS" in every dimension at the same time....I know when He sees me ,He sees me in every moment of my life ....the moments I have not even gotten to yet

    "I AM" is a very big statement ,,,,,,,that means He never "was" or is never "going to be'.....He is always "I Am",it is not even something my wee little hiuman mind can begin to comprehend......but I believe it ,because He says it is so.....so like Fez said(& I really like that)

 

And I believe He knows the history of your future.                                                                                                            posted by Fez

     That is just so awesome,just like the God we serve!!!!!                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik


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#12
Cletus

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Jeremiah 1:5 says God knew beforehand. Just a thought I had.

also matt 26:34, He knew.
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#13
other one

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If you really believe that God causes the future to happen as he wants it, then one would have to believe he planned the deaths of six million Jews and more than that of Gypsies, Christians and people who he and his people deemed not normal enough to live......      you would have to say that he is responsible for the millions of unborn babies that we have killed in the past few years.   I just don't think I can bring myself to think that he made that happen....

 

To see him in that way would mean all the evil going on in the world today would be something he planned and made happen.....   I just can't see that as reality.

 

 

 

If that is the reality of things then why would he ask me to pray that his will be done on earth as it is in heaven.......    if this is all just his will in the first place.   I think it is his ability to look into the future and see what decisions we would all make.


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#14
Enoc

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What's your interpretation of the following scripture:

 

Genesis 1:17-19New King James Version (NKJV)

17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


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#15
OakWood

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If you really believe that God causes the future to happen as he wants it, then one would have to believe he planned the deaths of six million Jews and more than that of Gypsies, Christians and people who he and his people deemed not normal enough to live......      you would have to say that he is responsible for the millions of unborn babies that we have killed in the past few years.   I just don't think I can bring myself to think that he made that happen....

 

To see him in that way would mean all the evil going on in the world today would be something he planned and made happen.....   I just can't see that as reality.

 

 

 

If that is the reality of things then why would he ask me to pray that his will be done on earth as it is in heaven.......    if this is all just his will in the first place.   I think it is his ability to look into the future and see what decisions we would all make.

 

All the evil in the World would have been planned if time was a dimension, but I'm saying that it's not. Those who claim that God exists outside time, to me are actually claiming that God created a dimension called time, which he wrote beforehand, filling in all the details of past, present and future. This is suggesting that God wrote an ugly immutable script (which he didn't).

The future is an open book, a blank slate. God CAN shape the future exactly as he wants to every minute detail but maybe he doesn't always do this because he gave us free will.

That's my point.

 

1/ I'm not attributing human qualities to God, far from it. I'm saying that he is the ultimate master of the Omniverse. He is in complete control of everything. He does not need o see into a future that isn't there. He doesn't look to see what is going to happen because he can make it happen if he wishes.

 

2/ I'm not claiming that God was responsible for the murder of millions of Jews. Far from it. He allowed it to happen because it's part of a greater plan.

 

3/ If time is a dimension where the future can be observed then it has already been written. Therefore we have no free will and there's no point in us trying to do anything. God is merely playing games with us and we are just puppets. Therefore God wrote that Eve would eat the apple and God wrote that Satan would cause mass destruction. This is clearly wrong. God is not at fault.

 

I can't believe that time is a dimension. It doesn't make sense scripturally. Ever since we have been taught that time is a dimension we have assumed that God must exist out of it, but there is no need for us to ponder that question because time is not a dimension, just a concept.

 

God does not need to see the end of the movie - he knows what's going to happen because he is the one writing the script!


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#16
Butero

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I believe time is a creation of God for our benefit.  At the same time, there is no question God knows the future.  He told Peter exactly how he would deny the Lord 3 times before the cock crowed twice.  Did God make Peter deny him 3 times?  You said God cannot see the future, but he creates it.  If that were the case, that would have to mean he made Peter deny him.  Jesus told us of future events when asked about signs of the end times, and of course we have the Book of Revelation.  Is God making those events happen?  Will he make people take the mark of the beast?  I do believe in pre-destination and election as I stated in the now closed thread, and I still haven't changed my mind after reading through it, because I base it on the Bible as a whole, and looking at how God tells of things to come.  Even so, I don't believe God is actually making us do things, but he created us in a way we will choose to act in a particular way, and he knows the outcome of our decisions before we make them.  If people truly had free will, we could refuse to co-operate with God's plan, and there would be no great tribulation.  There are people that actually teach that is possible. 

 

Anyway, you offered a unique idea, but I don't accept it as true Oakwood. 


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#17
OakWood

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I believe time is a creation of God for our benefit.  At the same time, there is no question God knows the future.  He told Peter exactly how he would deny the Lord 3 times before the cock crowed twice.  Did God make Peter deny him 3 times?  You said God cannot see the future, but he creates it.  If that were the case, that would have to mean he made Peter deny him.  Jesus told us of future events when asked about signs of the end times, and of course we have the Book of Revelation.  Is God making those events happen?  Will he make people take the mark of the beast?  I do believe in pre-destination and election as I stated in the now closed thread, and I still haven't changed my mind after reading through it, because I base it on the Bible as a whole, and looking at how God tells of things to come.  Even so, I don't believe God is actually making us do things, but he created us in a way we will choose to act in a particular way, and he knows the outcome of our decisions before we make them.  If people truly had free will, we could refuse to co-operate with God's plan, and there would be no great tribulation.  There are people that actually teach that is possible. 

 

Anyway, you offered a unique idea, but I don't accept it as true Oakwood. 

 

God knew Peter so well that he knew exactly what Peter was going to do. He can see and hear everything. He knew Peter's heart, he knew exactly when the Sun was going to rise (because after all, he was the one who set the clock). He knew exactly where the Romans were and exactly how long it would take them to get there.. and so on. He could even make the cock crow when he wanted it to.

To suggest that God looks into the future to see what is going to happen is to take power away from God. It suggests that God is controlled by the future and needs to consult it in order to find things out. There is no future to consult.

 

If I were to ask you why God invented cats with five legs and sets of wings and why he made the Sun rise in the West, you wouldn't be able to answer why. Because God didn't do that. It's a nonsense question. You can't answer why God did something if God didn't do it.

Likewise, to ask if God can see into the future is a nonsense question. He can't because there isn't a future. The future is yet to come but God can shape it into any way that he wishes, down to the finest detail if he so wishes, and he has already planned what he is going to do with this future (at least some of it, if not all of it).


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#18
Cletus

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I have always held the belief God dont fit in a box.
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#19
Rustyangel

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God sees it all, past , present and future.  He is all knowing, all seeing.  He is the first and the last the alpha and the omega.  He knew us before time began.  So yes God sees into the future.  John 17:20  Jesus is praying an intercessory prayer the night before He is crucified:

 

" Father I do not pray for these alone (meaning His disciples) but for all of those who will come to believe on Me because of their testimony"  For all of those?  All of those are us, ,me,  you, Yes He could see into the future and He still can.  He is God and therefore lacks nothing.


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#20
Butero

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To believe God can see in the future doesn't take power away from God.  He wrote the future.  He wrote the Book, the Holy Bible.  If I were to sit here and write a novel, I control everything that is going to happen in that book from start to finish.  Another person picks up that book, and they only see what has happened up to the point they have read.  I look at it like God wrote what is going to happen, and we are living somewhere in his prophetic time table.  God knows everything, down to the smallest detail that we are going to do, but we only know what has occurred up to the point and time we are living in.  The author is in complete control. 

 

I mentioned Jesus telling Peter what he would do.  Look at Judas.  The Old Testament tells of how he will deny the Christ for 30 pieces of silver, and how he would eventually take his own life.  Did God make Judas do these things, as a man controlling a puppet makes the puppet do what he wants, or did he create Judas knowing what Judas would do in the future?  I believe he created Judas to be the betrayer, but he didn't actually make Judas do anything.  He just created him with certain characteristics like greed, and put him in the right place to fulfil his will and betray Jesus, knowing exactly what he would do.  In a way, Judas had free will, but in another way, he was only playing a role God made him to play, and while in theory, he could have chosen not to betray Jesus, since God knew the future when he created Judas, his free will was only an illusion.  Yes, God does see the future that he created, and this in no wise limits God's power.  How is God's power limited?  Everything he wants to happen occurs, and there is nothing we can do about it. 


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