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Breaking Fellowship

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Does your church body practice this?

 

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

 

2 Thess. 3:14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.

 

 

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My church does.  We have a system where if a member is practicing homosexuality, living in open fornication or other type of sexual immorality, and they refuse to repent of their sin, they can be dis-fellowshipped.  Fortunately, we don't have that problem, though.

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it has happened once in my last church when a youth leader was found to be having a relationship with a young woman he had been ministering to. When approached he chose to leave the church rather than break off the relationship.

 

In my church if a male is ministering to a female it is always done with an open door and the presence of someone else next door. 

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Thank you both for the replies.  Fez, I have to clarify that I want to know if your church body practices "breaking fellowship"?  You didn't really say if the procedure is practiced?  But, since you commented I'm thinking you meant that your church does?  Just wanted to clarify.  :-)

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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Does your church body practice this?

 

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

 

2 Thess. 3:14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Many individuals do not practice this so I hope the churches do may be  more individuals will see it.

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I agree coheir.  I have a lot to post about this and think this issue is much over-looked within the church and should be addressed.  I was very surprised to see the immediate post by shiloh357, (and encouraged).  :mgcheerful:

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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Surely, there are more who practice this?  If not, why not?  If so, please tell me about it.

 

Thanks.

In His Love,

Suzanne

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I find this curious, is the church for saints or sinners?? To teach and help the sinner to change his way no matter how long. Do the members no longer sin daily and need forgiveness but are pure??

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I find this curious, is the church for saints or sinners?? To teach and help the sinner to change his way no matter how long. Do the members no longer sin daily and need forgiveness but are pure??

 

I think we need to understand what you mean by saint or sinner.

 

In my view, a saint is a person who has believed on Jesus and his completed work, and been born again, receiving a new nature. Therefore, a saved person no longer has a nature which desires to sin, but rather, might sin, but their desire is do please God. The change is from a sinner to a saint. Only a saint, with the new creation, is a member of the church scripturally.

 

A carnal Christian might commit a willful sin. It is when a carnal Christian commits a willful sin, and when approached shows no remorse but rather defends or boasts. That is the person who needs to be put out of fellowship, in hopes they repent. They are to be treated as one who is not saved, or a sinner.

 

Now, how do we treat a sinner? Well, a sinner needs to hear the gospel of salvation. They are not members of the church, as they have a different spiritual makeup, with a desire for themselves and sin, rather then God. They need to hear the plan of God, why it was needed, Who accomplished it, and what Jesus did.     

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I agree Qnts2..........and technically, we've misunderstood the great commission and the setup of the church.  Church was supposed to be, if you will, a classroom setting for the believer, to be equipped to fulfill the great commission, which was to "GO out unto them", then if they are willing to receive The Word of Truth, they come into the church to be equipped, edified as well, to be able to "go out" and lead others unto the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  The church of today, has it all backwards and just like the breaking fellowship issue, we have not set up the church correctly as instructed in the Scriptures.  But, rather have set it up according to the desires of men, rather than the desires of God.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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Where would you put Paul in your church? He says that the things he wants to do he does not do yet the things he does not want to do he does! Would this keep him out if church?? According to your posts it certainly would. There is no better place for a sinner than in church - he will hear the Gospel and have no excuse when he stands before God and is asked " What did you do with My Son Jesus?"

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Where would you put Paul in your church? He says that the things he wants to do he does not do yet the things he does not want to do he does! Would this keep him out if church?? According to your posts it certainly would. There is no better place for a sinner than in church - he will hear the Gospel and have no excuse when he stands before God and is asked " What did you do with My Son Jesus?"

 

Paul wasn't by nature a sinner any longer. I stated that a saint desires to do the will of God. Paul wanted to do the will of God, so Paul was a saint (and still is). 

 

A saint desires to do the will of God, and will continue of grow and mature.

 

A sinner by nature sins by nature. They desire to satisfy themselves. A sinner doesn't need to learn how to live pretending to be a saint. A sinner needs to hear the gospel of salvation. Hopefully a church gathering is for the benefit and maturity of the saints, so the saints can go out and share the gospel with the sinners.  If a sinner hears and accepts the gospel they will be changed onto a saint with a desire to please God.

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I agree Qnts2..........and technically, we've misunderstood the great commission and the setup of the church.  Church was supposed to be, if you will, a classroom setting for the believer, to be equipped to fulfill the great commission, which was to "GO out unto them", then if they are willing to receive The Word of Truth, they come into the church to be equipped, edified as well, to be able to "go out" and lead others unto the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  The church of today, has it all backwards and just like the breaking fellowship issue, we have not set up the church correctly as instructed in the Scriptures.  But, rather have set it up according to the desires of men, rather than the desires of God.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

 

Yes, I agree.

 

The church, or rather, the assembly of the brethren, was a place for Christians to support each other, pray for each other, learn, and grow.

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Where would you put Paul in your church? He says that the things he wants to do he does not do yet the things he does not want to do he does! Would this keep him out if church?? According to your posts it certainly would. There is no better place for a sinner than in church - he will hear the Gospel and have no excuse when he stands before God and is asked " What did you do with My Son Jesus?"

You should have continued in the Scriptures...as Paul did.......you are referring to Romans 7, but should have read the "whole" counsel of God, by the finished thought in Chapter 8.  (Chapters can hinder us, if you let them...but the context was continued in Chapter 8, this way):

 

Romans 7-8

 

7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

Victory in Chapter 8!

 

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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I find this curious, is the church for saints or sinners?? To teach and help the sinner to change his way no matter how long. Do the members no longer sin daily and need forgiveness but are pure??

 

I think we need to understand what you mean by saint or sinner.

 

In my view, a saint is a person who has believed on Jesus and his completed work, and been born again, receiving a new nature. Therefore, a saved person no longer has a nature which desires to sin, but rather, might sin, but their desire is do please God. The change is from a sinner to a saint. Only a saint, with the new creation, is a member of the church scripturally.

 

A carnal Christian might commit a willful sin. It is when a carnal Christian commits a willful sin, and when approached shows no remorse but rather defends or boasts. That is the person who needs to be put out of fellowship, in hopes they repent. They are to be treated as one who is not saved, or a sinner.

 

Now, how do we treat a sinner? Well, a sinner needs to hear the gospel of salvation. They are not members of the church, as they have a different spiritual makeup, with a desire for themselves and sin, rather then God. They need to hear the plan of God, why it was needed, Who accomplished it, and what Jesus did.     

 

I hear this idea of a carnal Christian a lot. Where do you get this in the Bible Q? Curious.

God bless,

GE

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Does your church body practice this?

 

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

 

2 Thess. 3:14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.

I'm not sure if my church body practices this. I know of one instance where this was practiced.

Does your church practice this Suzzanne? How does this look like if so in your church?

 

However, it's not just Paul that talked about Church discipline.

 

 

Matt. 5:15-20

If Your Brother Sins Against You

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

 

God bless,

GE

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I find this curious, is the church for saints or sinners?? To teach and help the sinner to change his way no matter how long. Do the members no longer sin daily and need forgiveness but are pure??

 

I think we need to understand what you mean by saint or sinner.

 

In my view, a saint is a person who has believed on Jesus and his completed work, and been born again, receiving a new nature. Therefore, a saved person no longer has a nature which desires to sin, but rather, might sin, but their desire is do please God. The change is from a sinner to a saint. Only a saint, with the new creation, is a member of the church scripturally.

 

A carnal Christian might commit a willful sin. It is when a carnal Christian commits a willful sin, and when approached shows no remorse but rather defends or boasts. That is the person who needs to be put out of fellowship, in hopes they repent. They are to be treated as one who is not saved, or a sinner.

 

Now, how do we treat a sinner? Well, a sinner needs to hear the gospel of salvation. They are not members of the church, as they have a different spiritual makeup, with a desire for themselves and sin, rather then God. They need to hear the plan of God, why it was needed, Who accomplished it, and what Jesus did.     

 

I hear this idea of a carnal Christian a lot. Where do you get this in the Bible Q? Curious.

God bless,

GE

 

 

The area which mainly introduces the idea of a carnal Christian is 1 Corintians 3

 

1 Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

So, there is a mention of 'babes' being carnal. Usually in scripture carnality is applied to those who are not saved, but in this instance, it is applied to Christians. In this case, the carnality is demonstrated as contention and strife among brethren.

 

If we look elsewhere:

 

 Gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

The fruit of the Spirit becomes evident as Christians learn to walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh. Carnality is being occupied by the desires of the flesh, or relying on the flesh which is actually the way those without the Spirit, unsaved would live. But, a Christian can do things or live like an unsaved person.  

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Where would you put Paul in your church? He says that the things he wants to do he does not do yet the things he does not want to do he does! Would this keep him out if church?? According to your posts it certainly would. There is no better place for a sinner than in church - he will hear the Gospel and have no excuse when he stands before God and is asked " What did you do with My Son Jesus?"

 

 

You seem to be talking about new people, not those who are not new, having already heard the Gospel and having been called a 'brother', which the Apostle Paul is talking about. ??

 

Blessings.

Edited by Pamelasv
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Does your church body practice this?

 

1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.

 

2 Thess. 3:14 And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.

I'm not sure if my church body practices this. I know of one instance where this was practiced.

Does your church practice this Suzzanne? How does this look like if so in your church?

 

However, it's not just Paul that talked about Church discipline.

 

 

Matt. 5:15-20

If Your Brother Sins Against You

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

 

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

Dear GE,

 

I have yet to find a church that follows this biblical doctrine....this is why I am posting the topic.  I am troubled about the state of affairs in the church, and I believe much has to do with this issue along w/the lack of teaching the "whole counsel of God".  Christians today, especially with the young adults are not aware of this instruction and are not taught how to biblically deal with someone named a brother in sin. I have a dd who has recently been confronted w/the problem of breaking fellowship, and many of her peers do not understand the teaching, because they have not been taught about it, and have a completely different view in terms of dealing with sin.  This is why I am concerned.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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Our present church does not have a formal membership. You either attend or your don't. You start ministering to others as God leads you. It is less stuctured than most. So there is not formal excommunication. If someone brings a complaint to the pastor he askes if they had gone to the person and talked to them first. Then had they taken someone else with them to reason with them.

Our last church was structured. A member who was known to be practicing sin as a lifestyle was spoken to by a friend or relative and asked compassionately to repent. If they continued, a couple of people went with them to plea with the person. Then a pastor and elders went to the person. If they continued to live in sin they were reported to the congregation and their name was removed from membership. This occurred in the case of an adulterous relationship. It also occurred in the case of a person stealing from church funds. A third person had crooked business practices and had ripped off several different church members. It was good to know that these things were not tollerated.

The church before that allowed everything to go on. Several adulterous relationships were happening and elders were ripping off church members in business. Complaints to the pastor were not believed but unsubstantiated gossip was believed by him. Factions supporting doctrinal error were tollerated as well. One man was odaining people as pastors for tax perposes. Our pastor said he did not want to rip out the wheat with the tares so he did nothing.. I thought all churches must be like that. Thankfully they are not.

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Dear Willamina,

 

I'm so glad to hear that your previous church got on the right track...it sounds like it really needed to.  And your current church sounds on track too.  You're so very blessed that your church does practice this.  I hope these things are stressed with regard to your young adults and teens.  This is the group I'm really concerned about, as they are constantly faced with decisions of purity...and if they are being held accountable I think it helps to build them up...especially if they are holding each other accountable.  It's so important that someone is teaching this to them.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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I can think of no better place for a sinner than in a church. You say to go out to them - how many of you go out to the sinners in the streets on a regular basis ? If so, I would then imagine you do not invite them to church until the accept Jesus?

We are all sinners saved by the grace of God and perhaps unlike all of you I need God's forgiveness daily and I would invite any sinner to my church.

Am I a part of Jesus' church, the Bride? Absolutely!!!

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I can think of no better place for a sinner than in a church. You say to go out to them - how many of you go out to the sinners in the streets on a regular basis ? If so, I would then imagine you do not invite them to church until the accept Jesus?

We are all sinners saved by the grace of God and perhaps unlike all of you I need God's forgiveness daily and I would invite any sinner to my church.

Am I a part of Jesus' church, the Bride? Absolutely!!!

Curious as to your definition of "saint" Little?

A typical definition is "a Christian believer" which is what I think Qnts2 was basically trying to say.

Our identities are no longer as sinners as Believers. Not because of anything we've deserve or done in our own strength. We are all who believe in Jesus saints because when God looks at us He only sees Jesus's holiness. His holiness trumps our sin. Make sense?

I think a lot of Believers have a hard time with the idea that we are all saints who are part of the Church. It's not just Mother Teresa or others. ;)

God bless,

GE

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I agree Qnts2..........and technically, we've misunderstood the great commission and the setup of the church.  Church was supposed to be, if you will, a classroom setting for the believer, to be equipped to fulfill the great commission, which was to "GO out unto them", then if they are willing to receive The Word of Truth, they come into the church to be equipped, edified as well, to be able to "go out" and lead others unto the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  The church of today, has it all backwards and just like the breaking fellowship issue, we have not set up the church correctly as instructed in the Scriptures.  But, rather have set it up according to the desires of men, rather than the desires of God.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

I agree tsth wholehearted that the Church is for equipping the believers that the Lord adds to the Church after salvation. The Church should be a training ground according to Ephesians 4 bringing the babes in Christ to a place of Christian maturity or adulthood in the Lord. In order that they can do the work of the ministry. This biblical structure of the Church is becoming more and more abandoned in churches of today.

Any sexual immorality of any kind that is permitted or allowed to continue within the members of Christ's body only teaches that it is okay to do. There are so many churches and church leaders today that are accepting those living in fornication instead of breaking fellowship with them. This is to be done in order to teach them not to sin. There is a church in the area that I live in that put a peron out of the church because she was having sex outside of marriage. It was a young lady who had two children out of wedlock and she lost a third child out of wedlock as it died at birth from complications from the umbilical cord. But today she has gotten back in church though in a different church in another area as she has moved since then. She no longer is in fornication today and is still single. I believe if the Church she attended had not excommunicated her then she would not have learned not to sin in Christ's body and been restored to right fellowship.

The scripture passage in 1 Cor. 5 shows to hand them over to Satan that they may "learn" not to sin. Fornication shouldn't be accepted to go on within Christ's Body the Church or among it's members. Those in fornication need to "learn" and excommunication will do just that it will teach them and give them time to consider their lifestyle in hopes of coming to a place of repentance and reconciliation. I seen it work firsthand in this ladies life so I know it works and I believe in the practice.

Great topic

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I really do wonder why 1 Cor. 5 is not received as Truth and taught as Truth to congregations?  I'm sure that the church is no longer viewed as "the salt of the earth", because of the lack of this teaching and the lack of the teachings on purity.  My dd who was being ridiculed within her own college age group, for speaking against fornication and breaking fellowship w/another because of it, was really hurting.  It was difficult for her to see that within the church body this idea is greatly contested.  I gave her these passages for edification:

 

1 Thess. 4:1 Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; 2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

 

Did you see these words?

 

"your sanctification"

 

Wow, in this day and time, especially for young adults where fornication is recreational, this is so true!  This is what will set them apart.  It really has been difficult for her, within the church!  Because the elders are not speaking about purity in blunt terms..with regard to the fact that Christians should be behaving differently, (in sanctification)  They should be living differently!  And the young adults should be encouraged in this.  As I started looking into the passages above, I started seeing a pattern in Scriptures with regard to sanctification and sexual purity, in other places in the Bible.  Sexual immorality IS the issue today, and we've got to start strengthening our kids/young adults to realize that purity is what will set them apart.

 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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