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Names of God etc.

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#1
Wildstar

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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

Edited by Wildstar, 07 August 2014 - 11:00 AM.

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What do you think?

 

I think it does not matter.

 

I think that loving God is all that matters.

 

I think that calling God God and Jesus Jesus is all we need.

 

I think that while such stuff may be of passing interest, it has little importance.

 

I think that God listens to our hearts, not what we call Him.

 

But that's just the way I think, and I know none of us think alike..


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#3
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I think if you have a real personal relationship with them, it really doesn't matter....


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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

 

 

Ok, let double back and remember, we are talking about Hebrew. In Hebrew, the name of God is four Hebrew letters. AKA the Tetragrammaton.

 

The four Hebrew letters are Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh (as sounded out in our lettering system). When moving the Hebrew letters to our alphabet, it is typically written as YHVH or YHWH. The actual Tetragrammaton would be the four Hebrew letters. There is no Hebrew letter which is called 'I' when transliterated to the Roman alphabet.  There is no sound like a long I as in 'like' in Hebrew. So, IHVH is not possible.

 

Now for Jesus. The His name in Hebrew is Yeshua. There is no 'J' sound in Hebrew. Since the NT was writen in Greek, Yeshua had to be transliterated into Greek, but Greek had no Y sound. The closest was an Iota. Greek has no SH sound. The closest is sigma, 's'. And male names all had to end with an S. So, from Hebrew alefbet to the Greek alphabet, we went from Yeshua, to Ieasous. Later the letter J was introducted, with a Y sound. And then the letter J changed sounds, so we end up with Jesus. Which is fine, but not the Sons Hebrew/original name.


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I think that GOD's name was forgotten long ago, and will not be known again until He returns to dwell among His people Israel. And the Bible tells us that the Angel of the Lord told Mary that the name of the Messiah was to be Jesus.


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#6
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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

 

That's a really interesting post. However, in my opinion it is not all that important how one pronounces it, because His name was not pronounced by the ancient Hebrews. And even today I am very uncomfortable saying the name, even if it is mispronounced. The Tetragram, however would be the most accurate depiction, however, even the name is usually rendered "I am what I am" which is wholly mysterious and incomprehensible. I think as far as the names of God go, our Lord Jesus is the best depiction we have, because He, afterall, is the image of the invisible God. 

 

Interestingly, and this is something I learned recently. The tetragram is often used in describing God the Father, but in actuality the name describes the Holy Trinity. 

 

Also, Jesus's name can also be called "Joshua".


Edited by Godspells, 07 August 2014 - 05:52 PM.

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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

 

 

Ok, let double back and remember, we are talking about Hebrew. In Hebrew, the name of God is four Hebrew letters. AKA the Tetragrammaton.

 

The four Hebrew letters are Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh (as sounded out in our lettering system). When moving the Hebrew letters to our alphabet, it is typically written as YHVH or YHWH. The actual Tetragrammaton would be the four Hebrew letters. There is no Hebrew letter which is called 'I' when transliterated to the Roman alphabet.  There is no sound like a long I as in 'like' in Hebrew. So, IHVH is not possible.

 

Now for Jesus. The His name in Hebrew is Yeshua. There is no 'J' sound in Hebrew. Since the NT was writen in Greek, Yeshua had to be transliterated into Greek, but Greek had no Y sound. The closest was an Iota. Greek has no SH sound. The closest is sigma, 's'. And male names all had to end with an S. So, from Hebrew alefbet to the Greek alphabet, we went from Yeshua, to Ieasous. Later the letter J was introducted, with a Y sound. And then the letter J changed sounds, so we end up with Jesus. Which is fine, but not the Sons Hebrew/original name.

 

My point was, that if you use the same rule that you apply to J that you do to W then you can't have YHWH


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#8
Wildstar

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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

 

That's a really interesting post. However, in my opinion it is not all that important how one pronounces it, because His name was not pronounced by the ancient Hebrews. And even today I am very uncomfortable saying the name, even if it is mispronounced. The Tetragram, however would be the most accurate depiction, however, even the name is usually rendered "I am what I am" which is wholly mysterious and incomprehensible. I think as far as the names of God go, our Lord Jesus is the best depiction we have, because He, afterall, is the image of the invisible God. 

 

Interestingly, and this is something I learned recently. The tetragram is often used in describing God the Father, but in actuality the name describes the Holy Trinity. 

 

Also, Jesus's name can also be called "Joshua".

 

Honestly I don't think it matters either.  Someone could have replaced Jesus with Steve steverson and we would all know who steverson was since we arent even pronouncing his name right in the first place.  I dont think its possible to pronounce something right without hearing it anyways.  Especially nouns for cities, names etc.  But it still bothers me.  


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Qnts2

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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

 

 

Ok, let double back and remember, we are talking about Hebrew. In Hebrew, the name of God is four Hebrew letters. AKA the Tetragrammaton.

 

The four Hebrew letters are Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh (as sounded out in our lettering system). When moving the Hebrew letters to our alphabet, it is typically written as YHVH or YHWH. The actual Tetragrammaton would be the four Hebrew letters. There is no Hebrew letter which is called 'I' when transliterated to the Roman alphabet.  There is no sound like a long I as in 'like' in Hebrew. So, IHVH is not possible.

 

Now for Jesus. The His name in Hebrew is Yeshua. There is no 'J' sound in Hebrew. Since the NT was writen in Greek, Yeshua had to be transliterated into Greek, but Greek had no Y sound. The closest was an Iota. Greek has no SH sound. The closest is sigma, 's'. And male names all had to end with an S. So, from Hebrew alefbet to the Greek alphabet, we went from Yeshua, to Ieasous. Later the letter J was introducted, with a Y sound. And then the letter J changed sounds, so we end up with Jesus. Which is fine, but not the Sons Hebrew/original name.

 

My point was, that if you use the same rule that you apply to J that you do to W then you can't have YHWH

 

Yes, you can.

 

In Hebrew there is no J and no J sound. But, in Hebrew, there is a sound which is similar to the sound of a W. The vav, with niqqud, has several differing sounds. The vav is either a consonant or a vowel. Some view the V sound as coming about a bit later, and the W sound as an earlier sound.     


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I think that GOD's name was forgotten long ago, and will not be known again until He returns to dwell among His people Israel. And the Bible tells us that the Angel of the Lord told Mary that the name of the Messiah was to be Jesus.

Not so much that it was forgotten but that no one can pronounce his name since thats simply the nature of language.  


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In the dead sea scrolls there is a interpolation, the scripting is Aramic Babyolonian rabbincal writing and did not come into practice until after the Babylonian captivity.  The interpolation is four letters is written in the ancient Paleo Semitic alphabet (sometimes called ancient Hebrew) But what are these four letters?  Are they the tetragrammaton of YHWH or YHVH?  No.  The third letter is not a "waw or a vav".  this is not the Paleo-Hebrew letter for the W or the V.  Another point is that there is no "W" letter in the Hebrew alphabet.  Here again, the Yahwist cannot have the name Yahweh with out the "W" sound with the "W" alphabet character which also, like the letter "J" was invented to symbolize the sound.  Admitting, the "W" sound was also included in the use of the "V" but what are the rules of grammar to know when the "V" had the "V" sound and the "W" sound?  The concision Yahwist never seem to want to discuss this.  They want to focus in on the letter "J" so they can attack the name of Jesus.  Should they use the same argument against the "Y" and the "W" they use against the "J" they could not even pronounce Yahweh and the letters would not be YHWH but IHVH.
 
Jesus is simply Jesus.  There are some people who give him other names though.  The tetragrammaton is IHSH.  This would be "IEHSHU."  When we add the final "s" to add masculinity the name would be "IEHSHUS."  Since the rule of grammar is that an "I" followed by a vowel has the "J" sound we arrive correctly at "JEHSHUS." which any person with intelligence can see its pronounced as "JESUS."
 
 
So in conclusion Gods name is IHVH and the Sons name is Jesus.
 
What do you think?

 

 

Ok, let double back and remember, we are talking about Hebrew. In Hebrew, the name of God is four Hebrew letters. AKA the Tetragrammaton.

 

The four Hebrew letters are Yod, Heh, Vav, Heh (as sounded out in our lettering system). When moving the Hebrew letters to our alphabet, it is typically written as YHVH or YHWH. The actual Tetragrammaton would be the four Hebrew letters. There is no Hebrew letter which is called 'I' when transliterated to the Roman alphabet.  There is no sound like a long I as in 'like' in Hebrew. So, IHVH is not possible.

 

Now for Jesus. The His name in Hebrew is Yeshua. There is no 'J' sound in Hebrew. Since the NT was writen in Greek, Yeshua had to be transliterated into Greek, but Greek had no Y sound. The closest was an Iota. Greek has no SH sound. The closest is sigma, 's'. And male names all had to end with an S. So, from Hebrew alefbet to the Greek alphabet, we went from Yeshua, to Ieasous. Later the letter J was introducted, with a Y sound. And then the letter J changed sounds, so we end up with Jesus. Which is fine, but not the Sons Hebrew/original name.

 

My point was, that if you use the same rule that you apply to J that you do to W then you can't have YHWH

 

Yes, you can.

 

In Hebrew there is no J and no J sound. But, in Hebrew, there is a sound which is similar to the sound of a W. The vav, with niqqud, has several differing sounds. The vav is either a consonant or a vowel. Some view the V sound as coming about a bit later, and the W sound as an earlier sound.     

 

Moses and others transferred to Proto-Sinatic and Phoenician Paleo-Hebrew many Egyptian word phonetics and new word forms were created. Scholars are at debate if Paleo-Hebrew word forms are derived from Egyptian or Phonicean. The modern "J" sounding is nearly the same as the Egyptian soft "G" and the cobra stood for both articulations. It is only reasonable then to see that the Paleo-Hebrew "G" and the "I" also carried the same characteristics. Moses used the Egyptian "Je" as in "Jelly" giving the letter "I" the "Jod" or "G - J" when he renamed Paleo-Hebrew Oshea to Jehoshea. The Babel Babylonian Aramaic corruptions are Jehoshua, Joshua, and Yeshua. Moses never called Oshea any of these names. How could he, when these Aramiac names would not be invented for another 1,400 years? 

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Honestly I don't think it matters either.  Someone could have replaced Jesus with Steve steverson and we would all know who steverson was since we arent even pronouncing his name right in the first place.  I dont think its possible to pronounce something right without hearing it anyways.  Especially nouns for cities, names etc.  But it still bothers me.  

 

 

Since Jesus Hebrew name, Yeshua, has a meaning, which is 'salvation', there are verses in which the meaning is used in a word play.  

Matthew 1:21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

 

Truthfully, calling Him Jesus because He will save His people, is not very clear as to the meaning, but, if it read, you shall call His name Yeshua (salvation), for He will save His people.  Then the verse and name make more sense.

 

As far as salvation, Jesus or Yeshua, one is saved by the Messiah who died for sin and rose again, not by pronunciation of their name.


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I think that GOD's name was forgotten long ago, and will not be known again until He returns to dwell among His people Israel. And the Bible tells us that the Angel of the Lord told Mary that the name of the Messiah was to be Jesus.

Not so much that it was forgotten but that no one can pronounce his name since thats simply the nature of language.  

 

 

God's sacred name was pronounced, and sung. It is not an unpronouncable name.

 

But, as a hedge around the law, the enunciation of the holy Name, ceased, and the actual way to say the Name has been lost. Not that it unpronouncable, but there is a question as to how to pronounce the Name.  


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#14
Godspells

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Honestly I don't think it matters either.  Someone could have replaced Jesus with Steve steverson and we would all know who steverson was since we arent even pronouncing his name right in the first place.  I dont think its possible to pronounce something right without hearing it anyways.  Especially nouns for cities, names etc.  But it still bothers me.  

 

 

Since Jesus Hebrew name, Yeshua, has a meaning, which is 'salvation', there are verses in which the meaning is used in a word play.  

Matthew 1:21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

 

Truthfully, calling Him Jesus because He will save His people, is not very clear as to the meaning, but, if it read, you shall call His name Yeshua (salvation), for He will save His people.  Then the verse and name make more sense.

 

As far as salvation, Jesus or Yeshua, one is saved by the Messiah who died for sin and rose again, not by pronunciation of their name.

 

 

That's interesting. I notice that seems to happen a lot, we sort of miss things in translation. For instance Peter means rock, and Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my Church", the meaning seems more poetic and profound knowing that aspect (even if you think it was Peter's revelation that is the rock). 


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#15
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Yes, you can.

 

 

In Hebrew there is no J and no J sound. But, in Hebrew, there is a sound which is similar to the sound of a W. The vav, with niqqud, has several differing sounds. The vav is either a consonant or a vowel. Some view the V sound as coming about a bit later, and the W sound as an earlier sound.     

 

Moses and others transferred to Proto-Sinatic and Phoenician Paleo-Hebrew many Egyptian word phonetics and new word forms were created. Scholars are at debate if Paleo-Hebrew word forms are derived from Egyptian or Phonicean. The modern "J" sounding is nearly the same as the Egyptian soft "G" and the cobra stood for both articulations. It is only reasonable then to see that the Paleo-Hebrew "G" and the "I" also carried the same characteristics. Moses used the Egyptian "Je" as in "Jelly" giving the letter "I" the "Jod" or "G - J" when he renamed Paleo-Hebrew Oshea to Jehoshea. The Babel Babylonian Aramaic corruptions are Jehoshua, Joshua, and Yeshua. Moses never called Oshea any of these names. How could he, when these Aramiac names would not be invented for another 1,400 years? 

 

 

I would say that this is a version of history which you read somewhere, but is not the standard history which has received general acceptance.

 

Hebrew does have a G sound. The letter gimel. But there is no J sound. There is a Y sound which has never had the J sound. The is no letter I in Hebrew.  So, I think this history is a confusion with the modern alphabet and the Hebrew alphabet.


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#16
Wildstar

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I think that GOD's name was forgotten long ago, and will not be known again until He returns to dwell among His people Israel. And the Bible tells us that the Angel of the Lord told Mary that the name of the Messiah was to be Jesus.

Not so much that it was forgotten but that no one can pronounce his name since thats simply the nature of language.  

 

 

God's sacred name was pronounced, and sung. It is not an unpronouncable name.

 

But, as a hedge around the law, the enunciation of the holy Name, ceased, and the actual way to say the Name has been lost. Not that it unpronouncable, but there is a question as to how to pronounce the Name.  

 

Fair enough.  But no way to pronounce his name now except if god reveals it to you or something lol.  


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#17
Sevenseas

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I think that GOD's name was forgotten long ago, and will not be known again until He returns to dwell among His people Israel. And the Bible tells us that the Angel of the Lord told Mary that the name of the Messiah was to be Jesu

 

 

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#18
Sevenseas

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Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?

14God said to Moses, I am who I am.c This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”

 

Apparently, this is how God referred to Himself it seems...


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