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The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9

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#1
Last Daze

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A couple of threads kind of touched on this subject and I thought it might be beneficial to discuss it.  A lot of people, including myself, see this prophecy as giving some of the first recognizable signs that end times prophecy has entered a specific timetable, namely, the seven year covenant in v27, and possibly the building of the temple as part of that covenant.  Other people see it differently.

 

Some of the things I'd like comments on are:

  • the purpose of the seventy weeks as described in v24.  When will those be accomplished or when were they accomplished.
  • the prince who is to come
  • who is it that makes the covenant and who are the many

but feel free to comment on any of it.  I've posted the NASB version for easy reference.

 

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”


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#2
Montana Marv

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Things that need to be addressed:

 

Who are the 70 Sevens decreed to:  Daniels people (Israel) and Daniels holy city (Jerusalem)

How many tasks are they to accomplish - 6.

Have they been accomplished by Israel and Jerusalem - No

Conclusion - This Final Week is in our Future.

When will the six tasks be accomplished - at the end of the 70th Week

How is this 70th Week divided - two continuous halves of 42 months each.  Beginning, Middle, and End.

 

Other factors:

 

Matt 24:15 - When you see standing in the holy place the A/D - Flee (the second 42 month period)

Rev 12:13, 14 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child ... where she was to be taken care of for a time, times and half a time (42 months or 3 1/2 years).

 

This 70th Seven is for Israel, as were the previous 69 Sevens.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv


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#3
justfaith

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A couple of threads kind of touched on this subject and I thought it might be beneficial to discuss it.  A lot of people, including myself, see this prophecy as giving some of the first recognizable signs that end times prophecy has entered a specific timetable, namely, the seven year covenant in v27, and possibly the building of the temple as part of that covenant.  Other people see it differently.

 

Some of the things I'd like comments on are:

  • the purpose of the seventy weeks as described in v24.  When will those be accomplished or when were they accomplished.
  • the prince who is to come
  • who is it that makes the covenant and who are the many

but feel free to comment on any of it.  I've posted the NASB version for easy reference.

 

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Verse 23: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy." 
 
Notice that seventy weeks were determined upon the Jewish people and upon the Holy City Jerusalem to bring about six important conditions as mentioned in this verse. 
 
When prophecies are given in relation to days, it has been definitely proven by passing events, that we must take each day for a year in their correct application. The prophet Ezekiel gives us this instruction chapter 4, verses 5 and 6. 
 
 from chapter 7 how  the 1,260-day period applies to Rome and  the papacy. 

Edited by justfaith, 24 August 2014 - 12:58 PM.

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#4
justfaith

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Things that need to be addressed:

 

Who are the 70 Sevens decreed to:  Daniels people (Israel) and Daniels holy city (Jerusalem)

How many tasks are they to accomplish - 6.

Have they been accomplished by Israel and Jerusalem - No

Conclusion - This Final Week is in our Future.

When will the six tasks be accomplished - at the end of the 70th Week

How is this 70th Week divided - two continuous halves of 42 months each.  Beginning, Middle, and End.

 

Other factors:

 

Matt 24:15 - When you see standing in the holy place the A/D - Flee (the second 42 month period)

Rev 12:13, 14 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child ... where she was to be taken care of for a time, times and half a time (42 months or 3 1/2 years).

 

This 70th Seven is for Israel, as were the previous 69 Sevens.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

This seventy-week period, reduced to days therefore equals 490 years, as there are 490 days in 70 weeks. At the end of this 490-year period, reconciliation was to be made for iniquity, and a means provided to forgive sins, or to make an end of sins; also to anoint the Most Holy. 
 
Verse 25: The angel gave Daniel assurance that his prayers were going to be answered and a commandment would go forth sometime in the future to restore and to build Jerusalem. This gave him great hope and joy for the future of the city and people he loved. From the going forth of this commandment until the coming of the Messiah there was to be 69 weeks. After the "three score and two weeks" (one score being 20), the Messiah was to be cut off, but not for Himself. It was for others that he was to be cut off. 
 
Notice verse 26 carefully, that after He is cut off there is to be a destruction of Jerusalem and a period of desolation. 

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#5
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Well, I've been here for going on 11 years, and I've seen dozens of threads on this subject, most running into the hundreds of posts......     so I'm going to let you guys have at it.   I would ask that if by some miracle you all come to a consensus as to how this all works out will you please PM me so I don't miss it.

Have fun.....


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#6
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Yeah, I'll bow out too, because no amount of Scripture juggling within Dan.9 is going to change all the other direct links in other Daniel chapters, nor links in the NT with 2 Thess.2, Christ's Olivet Discourse, nor His Revelation.


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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)


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#8
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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The Evil Galilean Zealots were "of" Jesus?  Can you elaborate?  Based on your description (immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) I would guess that they are "of" the evil one.

 

Can you elaborate on the final 3.5 years as to when it might fit into the rest or prophecy?  Is it when the dragon in Rev 12 persecutes Israel?  Will Jesus be back on earth then confirming/strengthening the covenant for the final 3.5 years? 


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#9
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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The Evil Galilean Zealots were "of" Jesus?  Can you elaborate?  Based on your description (immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) I would guess that they are "of" the evil one.

 

Can you elaborate on the final 3.5 years as to when it might fit into the rest or prophecy?  Is it when the dragon in Rev 12 persecutes Israel?  Will Jesus be back on earth then confirming/strengthening the covenant for the final 3.5 years? 

 

 

The Hebrew word for "people" is not a religious word. It refers to those from your hometown or home region. Your countrymen. Thus Jesus was from Galilee and his "people" are Galileans, just like if people from Oklahama do evil, they are still "your countrymen"  just by virtue of the fact they are from Oklahama even if you disassociate yourself from their deeds.  In the build up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD it was 3 different galilean leaders that were vying for power and "Messianic status" in the build up to the Roman siege. These were known as the "Zealots" and were intensely evil and brought the city and the sanctuary to absolute moral ruin. The Hebrew word for destroy does not actually mean destroy, it means "ruin" because it can apply to a destruction, to a corruption and to rot and decay. So its usage can apply equally to what the corrupt Galileans did to the city and the temple, as well as what the Romans did to the city and the temple.

 

The final 3.5 years overlap all the 3.5 year periods of Daniel/Revelation. Yes its the period of Satan's wrath as per Rev 12. This is when the woman (Israel) is protected.

Incidentally this period starts with the victory of the gospel, which causes Satan to fall, which reminds us of Jesus words that the end will not come until the gospel is preached to all nations. Which in turn reminds us of Romans 11:25 which refers to the "fullness of the nations", thereafter Israel is open to the gospel.

 

And so I believe the final 3.5 years, the great tribulation will be a special period for Jews, where they are protected and also they are open to the gospel. Thus the gift of Jesus' sacrifice interrupted the last week, but Jesus will still confirm himself as Messiah to the Jewish nation for a further 3.5 years until the second coming. (through salvation of the Jews).


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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The 70 weeks are not broken 


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#11
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During the following one half of this last week, or three and a half years, they refused to hear the message. The Messiah also said just before He was cut off, speaking of the Jews: "They shall fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles UNTIL the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" (Luke 21:24). 


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#12
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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The 70 weeks are not broken 

 

 

I've heard the preterist view on this and am not convinced. Can you elaborate please.


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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The bolded part above is not in the Bible, not in any translation. Poor form.

 

The decree by Artaxerxes that fits the prophecy is the one from Nehemiah, in 445BC. (The 3 earlier Ezra decrees relate to the temple, not the city with wall and moat).

 

The years are 360 day years (half of these seven years is 1260 days).

 

...until Messiah, v25. What was the first occasion when Christ allowed Himself to be presented as Messiah, even pre-arranging the donkey and foal with the innkeeper? -Palm Sunday. Every earlier occasion, when the crowd got excited He would say "my hour is not yet come" or slip through the crowd to escape, or tell those receiving miracles to tell no one. He was reserving the public announcement of his role as Messiah until a particular day, which happened to be 483x360=173,880 days from the going forth of the decree, above. (This is Sir Robert Anderson's analysis, which has its detractors but I think still holds up).

 

v26: "and after 62 weeks (verse 25) (a bunch of stuff happens)". It should be noted that v26 comes between v25 and 27. This is oddly missed by many commentators. Verse 26 describes the interval between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week.**

 

Then verse 27 deals with the 70th week, and  Rev 6-19 is basically an expansion of Dan 9:27.

 

 

------------

**This is one of the incidences of the "church gap" that shows up throughout scripture. The classic example is comparing Luke 4:17-19 with the passage Jesus quotes from in Isa 61:1,2 where Jesus stops his quote at the comma in the middle of Isa 61:2, closes the book, and leaves unsaid "and the day of vengeance..."

That "comma" has lasted almost 2000 years.


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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The Evil Galilean Zealots were "of" Jesus?  Can you elaborate?  Based on your description (immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) I would guess that they are "of" the evil one.

 

Can you elaborate on the final 3.5 years as to when it might fit into the rest or prophecy?  Is it when the dragon in Rev 12 persecutes Israel?  Will Jesus be back on earth then confirming/strengthening the covenant for the final 3.5 years? 

 

 

The Hebrew word for "people" is not a religious word. It refers to those from your hometown or home region. Your countrymen. Thus Jesus was from Galilee and his "people" are Galileans, just like if people from Oklahama do evil, they are still "your countrymen"  just by virtue of the fact they are from Oklahama even if you disassociate yourself from their deeds.  In the build up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD it was 3 different galilean leaders that were vying for power and "Messianic status" in the build up to the Roman siege. These were known as the "Zealots" and were intensely evil and brought the city and the sanctuary to absolute moral ruin. The Hebrew word for destroy does not actually mean destroy, it means "ruin" because it can apply to a destruction, to a corruption and to rot and decay. So its usage can apply equally to what the corrupt Galileans did to the city and the temple, as well as what the Romans did to the city and the temple.

 

The final 3.5 years overlap all the 3.5 year periods of Daniel/Revelation. Yes its the period of Satan's wrath as per Rev 12. This is when the woman (Israel) is protected.

Incidentally this period starts with the victory of the gospel, which causes Satan to fall, which reminds us of Jesus words that the end will not come until the gospel is preached to all nations. Which in turn reminds us of Romans 11:25 which refers to the "fullness of the nations", thereafter Israel is open to the gospel.

 

And so I believe the final 3.5 years, the great tribulation will be a special period for Jews, where they are protected and also they are open to the gospel. Thus the gift of Jesus' sacrifice interrupted the last week, but Jesus will still confirm himself as Messiah to the Jewish nation for a further 3.5 years until the second coming. (through salvation of the Jews).

 

So, you're saying that Jesus does not come back to earth to confirm the final 3.5 years with Israel?  If that's correct, how does He do it during that time?

 

Shouldn't the part about the Messiah being cut off fall in the description of the last week instead of just "after the sixty-two weeks"?


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#15
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Wasn't "to make atonement for iniquity" accomplished on the cross and isn't the reference "the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing" when He was forsaken while on the cross?  If that's true, can it be that it falls outside of the 62 and the final seven?


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Wasn't "to make atonement for iniquity" accomplished on the cross and isn't the reference "the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing" when He was forsaken while on the cross?  If that's true, can it be that it falls outside of the 62 and the final seven?

SEVENTY WEEKS are determined upon Thy People (Daniel's people the Jews) and upon the Holy City (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

When was the most Holy annoited ?

 

And after THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS shall MESSIAH BE CUT OFF, but not for Himself: and the people

 

Why does it say after 62 weeks ?


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#17
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Wasn't "to make atonement for iniquity" accomplished on the cross and isn't the reference "the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing" when He was forsaken while on the cross?  If that's true, can it be that it falls outside of the 62 and the final seven?

SEVENTY WEEKS are determined upon Thy People (Daniel's people the Jews) and upon the Holy City (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

When was the most Holy annoited ?

 

And after THREESCORE AND TWO WEEKS shall MESSIAH BE CUT OFF, but not for Himself: and the people

 

Why does it say after 62 weeks ?

 

I'm not sure you understood my question.  It appears to me that part of what was to be accomplished (to make atonement for iniquity) happened outside of the 70 weeks (after the 62).  Why would you give a timeframe for 6 things to happen when it seems that one of them happened outside of the timeframe?  That's my question.  And I don't have an answer.


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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The Evil Galilean Zealots were "of" Jesus?  Can you elaborate?  Based on your description (immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) I would guess that they are "of" the evil one.

 

Can you elaborate on the final 3.5 years as to when it might fit into the rest or prophecy?  Is it when the dragon in Rev 12 persecutes Israel?  Will Jesus be back on earth then confirming/strengthening the covenant for the final 3.5 years? 

 

 

The Hebrew word for "people" is not a religious word. It refers to those from your hometown or home region. Your countrymen. Thus Jesus was from Galilee and his "people" are Galileans, just like if people from Oklahama do evil, they are still "your countrymen"  just by virtue of the fact they are from Oklahama even if you disassociate yourself from their deeds.  In the build up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD it was 3 different galilean leaders that were vying for power and "Messianic status" in the build up to the Roman siege. These were known as the "Zealots" and were intensely evil and brought the city and the sanctuary to absolute moral ruin. The Hebrew word for destroy does not actually mean destroy, it means "ruin" because it can apply to a destruction, to a corruption and to rot and decay. So its usage can apply equally to what the corrupt Galileans did to the city and the temple, as well as what the Romans did to the city and the temple.

 

The final 3.5 years overlap all the 3.5 year periods of Daniel/Revelation. Yes its the period of Satan's wrath as per Rev 12. This is when the woman (Israel) is protected.

Incidentally this period starts with the victory of the gospel, which causes Satan to fall, which reminds us of Jesus words that the end will not come until the gospel is preached to all nations. Which in turn reminds us of Romans 11:25 which refers to the "fullness of the nations", thereafter Israel is open to the gospel.

 

And so I believe the final 3.5 years, the great tribulation will be a special period for Jews, where they are protected and also they are open to the gospel. Thus the gift of Jesus' sacrifice interrupted the last week, but Jesus will still confirm himself as Messiah to the Jewish nation for a further 3.5 years until the second coming. (through salvation of the Jews).

 

So, you're saying that Jesus does not come back to earth to confirm the final 3.5 years with Israel?  If that's correct, how does He do it during that time?

 

Shouldn't the part about the Messiah being cut off fall in the description of the last week instead of just "after the sixty-two weeks"?

 

 

Yes the part about being "cut off" is the same event as Jesus bringing an offering of sacrifice, his crucifixion. This occurs after the 483 years, exactly 3.5 years after. The coming of the anointed one is logically not at the triumphal entry as traditionally seen, its 3.5 years before that when Jesus was anointed in the River Jordan and publicly recognised by John the Baptist as the Messiah. Historically this occurred 483 years after the issuing of Artaxerxes decree in 458 BC. Exactly 3.5 years later Jesus is "cut off", when he gives himself as an offering of sacrifice, which stops the 70th week in the middle.

 

Jesus confirms himself to those open hearted Jews just as he confirmed Himself to you. Through salvation, heart knowledge that He is the only way. Gentiles are currently open to the gospel but after the fullness of the Gentiles, Jews will be open to the gospel (Romans 11:25). Thus for 3.5 years on earth, and for 3.5 years of the great tribulation, Jesus is revealed to the Jewish nation.  So for 7 years the Messianic promise of God is confirmed to the Jewish nation. This 7 year period is stopped in the middle by Jesus and then started again by the "abomination of desolation" ... the great appearing of the antichrist as per 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13. Daniel 12 can also be seen as alluding to this gap followed by the abomination.

 

This would then explain why Jesus only refers to the future "abomination" and not any  "peace treaty" is mentioned by Jesus. This would also explain the repeated mention of a tribulation of 3.5 years in Revelation, with no repeated mention of 7 years anywhere in the bible.


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#19
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The bolded part above is not in the Bible, not in any translation. Poor form.

 

The decree by Artaxerxes that fits the prophecy is the one from Nehemiah, in 445BC. (The 3 earlier Ezra decrees relate to the temple, not the city with wall and moat).

 

The years are 360 day years (half of these seven years is 1260 days).

 

...until Messiah, v25. What was the first occasion when Christ allowed Himself to be presented as Messiah, even pre-arranging the donkey and foal with the innkeeper? -Palm Sunday. Every earlier occasion, when the crowd got excited He would say "my hour is not yet come" or slip through the crowd to escape, or tell those receiving miracles to tell no one. He was reserving the public announcement of his role as Messiah until a particular day, which happened to be 483x360=173,880 days from the going forth of the decree, above. (This is Sir Robert Anderson's analysis, which has its detractors but I think still holds up).

 

v26: "and after 62 weeks (verse 25) (a bunch of stuff happens)". It should be noted that v26 comes between v25 and 27. This is oddly missed by many commentators. Verse 26 describes the interval between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week.**

 

Then verse 27 deals with the 70th week, and  Rev 6-19 is basically an expansion of Dan 9:27.

 

 

------------

**This is one of the incidences of the "church gap" that shows up throughout scripture. The classic example is comparing Luke 4:17-19 with the passage Jesus quotes from in Isa 61:1,2 where Jesus stops his quote at the comma in the middle of Isa 61:2, closes the book, and leaves unsaid "and the day of vengeance..."

That "comma" has lasted almost 2000 years.

 

 

1) Hi, thanks for your analysis. Regarding "poor form", in my defense I did carefully check the Hebrew and it came as a recent revelation to me that the Hebrew word for "cease" (shabath) can just as easily apply to the preceding verb as to the next verb in the sentence.

 

The Hebrew in the English form of the Interlinear bible goes like this:  http://biblehub.com/...daniel/9-27.htm

And he shall confirm week for one and in the middle of the week to cease he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering and for the overspreading of abominations.....

 

Thus context is unclear whether the week is ceasing or the sacrifices are ceasing. All translators have chosen to assume its the sacrifices are ceasing, but a wholesale revision of preconceived notions on Daniel 9:27 is required if in fact its the week that is ceasing in the middle.

 

 

2) I know its traditional to see Hebrew years as 360 days a year, but this notion is in fact incorrect. Approximately every 6th year the Levites introduced a second month of Adar known as Adar II.  They did this to keep Adar as representing Spring and so watched for signs of spring to decide when to introduce a second Adar. Thus over the long term our years of 365 days always match Hebrew years of 360 days and occasional 390 days.  http://www.hebrew4ch.../Adar/adar.html

 

Therefore the traditional view of looking at Nehemiah's later decree in 445BC makes no sense from an accurate Hebrew perspective. Neither does it make sense to see the exile as complete in 445BC when in fact Artaxerxes earlier decree in 458BC officially started the rebuilding of Jerusalem.  So in this respect I heartily disagree with you.

 

3) You are incorrect about the first time Christ presented himself as Messiah. This occurred at Nazareth in Luke 4:18-20.  But regardless of this, Jesus was anointed in the river Jordan and publicly was recognised as the Messiah by John the Baptists at that time, so I truly believe this was the "coming of the anointed one". So I heartily disagree with you on when the coming of the anointed one occurred. 

 

4) I believe verse 26 is a parenthesis referring to future events, then reverts back to the last week.  

 

5) I believe the 3.5 years of Daniel 9:27 b is expanded on in Revelation 6-19.


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#20
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24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. 25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree (Artaxerxes in 458BC)  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince (JESUS OF GALILEE)  there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26 Then AFTER (3.5 years after)  the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (EVIL GALILEAN ZEALOTS) of the prince who is to come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will RUIN the city and the sanctuary (through immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) . And its end will come with a flood (THE ROMANS IN 70AD) ; even to the end there will be war (70AD); desolations are determined (70AD) . 27 And he (JESUS THE PRINCE) will CONFIRM/STRENGTHEN  a firm covenant (THE MESSIANIC PROMISE) with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he (JESUS) will stop the week by a gift of sacrifice (JESUS THE LAST SACRIFICE); and on the wing of abominations will come one (THE FUTURE ANTICHRIST) who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

 

After the Babylonian exile, 490 restored years are declared for the Jews.   

483 years of restoration of Israel  (458BC to 26AD)

3.5 years of the covenant Messiah received by Israel (Autumn 26 AD- Spring 30AD). At the crucifixion in 30AD they rejected Him and the 490 Jewish years were broken.

3.5 years of a future safe period of openness to the gospel - the covenant Messiah received by Israel.(Romans 11:25  Revelation 12)

The Evil Galilean Zealots were "of" Jesus?  Can you elaborate?  Based on your description (immorality/corruption/dissension/desecration) I would guess that they are "of" the evil one.

 

Can you elaborate on the final 3.5 years as to when it might fit into the rest or prophecy?  Is it when the dragon in Rev 12 persecutes Israel?  Will Jesus be back on earth then confirming/strengthening the covenant for the final 3.5 years? 

 

 

The Hebrew word for "people" is not a religious word. It refers to those from your hometown or home region. Your countrymen. Thus Jesus was from Galilee and his "people" are Galileans, just like if people from Oklahama do evil, they are still "your countrymen"  just by virtue of the fact they are from Oklahama even if you disassociate yourself from their deeds.  In the build up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD it was 3 different galilean leaders that were vying for power and "Messianic status" in the build up to the Roman siege. These were known as the "Zealots" and were intensely evil and brought the city and the sanctuary to absolute moral ruin. The Hebrew word for destroy does not actually mean destroy, it means "ruin" because it can apply to a destruction, to a corruption and to rot and decay. So its usage can apply equally to what the corrupt Galileans did to the city and the temple, as well as what the Romans did to the city and the temple.

 

The final 3.5 years overlap all the 3.5 year periods of Daniel/Revelation. Yes its the period of Satan's wrath as per Rev 12. This is when the woman (Israel) is protected.

Incidentally this period starts with the victory of the gospel, which causes Satan to fall, which reminds us of Jesus words that the end will not come until the gospel is preached to all nations. Which in turn reminds us of Romans 11:25 which refers to the "fullness of the nations", thereafter Israel is open to the gospel.

 

And so I believe the final 3.5 years, the great tribulation will be a special period for Jews, where they are protected and also they are open to the gospel. Thus the gift of Jesus' sacrifice interrupted the last week, but Jesus will still confirm himself as Messiah to the Jewish nation for a further 3.5 years until the second coming. (through salvation of the Jews).

 

So, you're saying that Jesus does not come back to earth to confirm the final 3.5 years with Israel?  If that's correct, how does He do it during that time?

 

Shouldn't the part about the Messiah being cut off fall in the description of the last week instead of just "after the sixty-two weeks"?

 

 

Yes the part about being "cut off" is the same event as Jesus bringing an offering of sacrifice, his crucifixion. This occurs after the 483 years, exactly 3.5 years after. The coming of the anointed one is logically not at the triumphal entry as traditionally seen, its 3.5 years before that when Jesus was anointed in the River Jordan and publicly recognised by John the Baptist as the Messiah. Historically this occurred 483 years after the issuing of Artaxerxes decree in 458 BC. Exactly 3.5 years later Jesus is "cut off", when he gives himself as an offering of sacrifice, which stops the 70th week in the middle.

 

Jesus confirms himself to those open hearted Jews just as he confirmed Himself to you. Through salvation, heart knowledge that He is the only way. Gentiles are currently open to the gospel but after the fullness of the Gentiles, Jews will be open to the gospel (Romans 11:25). Thus for 3.5 years on earth, and for 3.5 years of the great tribulation, Jesus is revealed to the Jewish nation.  So for 7 years the Messianic promise of God is confirmed to the Jewish nation. This 7 year period is stopped in the middle by Jesus and then started again by the "abomination of desolation" ... the great appearing of the antichrist as per 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13. Daniel 12 can also be seen as alluding to this gap followed by the abomination.

 

This would then explain why Jesus only refers to the future "abomination" and not any  "peace treaty" is mentioned by Jesus. This would also explain the repeated mention of a tribulation of 3.5 years in Revelation, with no repeated mention of 7 years anywhere in the bible.

 

So you think that "to make atonement for iniquity" happened within the first 3.5 years of the seven year confirming of the covenant...at the end?

 

Do you think a temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem then for the false prophet to declare himself as God in?


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