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Saints and Christianity?

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#1
Amethyst87F

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I'm a Christian. I would love to be able to study/worship/pray to Saints though.

 

A few years back I read that Worshipping Saints is Idol Worship. (???)

 

I've also heard that only Catholics are allowed to pray to/worship Saints.

 

On two positive ideas I've heard about Saints though, are that 1. Saints can be looked at as our friends. and 2. The goal of every Catholic is to become a Saint.

 

(I hope it's okay to post things about Catholicism)

 

 


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#2
Rustyangel

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Hi Amethyst and welcome to Worthy.

 

No we do not believe in praying to saints.  The saints you are referring to are all dead and cannot hear anything you say.  God is clear that praying to saints is putting others before Him and He said "Thou shalt have no other God's before Me"

 

We are always glad to have new people here but posting doctrine that is contrary to what scripture says is not allowed.  And you read right worshiping saints is idol worship and that is a sin.

 

I would suggest you get into God's  word and start in the gospel of John. the Bible is God's love letter to us. We are to live by His word and praying to saints is not living as He says we should live. We are  to worship only God and come into a relationship with  God through Jesus Christ.  When we pray to anyone or anything other then God He does not hear nor does He honor any other prayer except only to Him. When we pray asking God to forgive us of our sins and then ask Jesus into our hearts to be our Lord and Savior He hears us and we  become His child.  But it must be done in Jesus name and no other.

 

We welcome anyone to Worthy but we can't allow anyone to bring a false doctrine and praying and worshiping saints is a false doctrine.

 

I hope you understand and please know you are welcome so long as you do not encourage praying and worshiping  saints. Again welcome to Worthy.

 

Because He Lives !!! Rustyangel


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#3
Cletus

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Sanctification is being seperated from the world and to God. Every believer is sanctified once saved. There is also the sanctificatiomn process which God removes our sin little by little as we walk with Him. Being sanctified makes us saints while on earth.

1 corinthians 6:11, 1 corinthians 1:30.
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#4
Rustyangel

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Sanctification is being seperated from the world and to God. Every believer is sanctified once saved. There is also the sanctificatiomn process which God removes our sin little by little as we walk with Him. Being sanctified makes us saints while on earth.

1 corinthians 6:11, 1 corinthians 1:30.

Yes I would agree with my brother Cletus as being called saints.  But we are still in the human flesh and are not to be put above anyone else.  Paul  called us saints but only because we are sanctified because of the blood of Jesus.


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#5
HidenInTheOpenIsGod

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to worship a saint is like to worship brother or sister


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#6
FresnoJoe

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The

 

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

 

And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

 

But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Hebrews 7:22-24

 

Master

 

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:25-26

 

Talk

 

Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 7:27

 

~

 

I'm a Christian. I would love to be able to study/worship/pray to Saints though.

 

A few years back I read that Worshiping Saints is Idol Worship. (???)

 

I've also heard that only Catholics are allowed to pray to/worship Saints.

 

On two positive ideas I've heard about Saints though, are that 1. Saints can be looked at as our friends. and 2. The goal of every Catholic is to become a Saint.

 

(I hope it's okay to post things about Catholicism)

 

:thumbsup:

 

Saints

 

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

 

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:26-27

 

Are Believers

 

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

 

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 1:1-4

 

And Little Sister, Don't Let Those Big Fellows Fool You

 

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Be Very Blessed

 

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

 

Love, Your Brother Joe


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#7
Diatheosis

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I agree what has been said about worshipping them, but surely they are worth studying. Anyone sacrificing their life to be with God only and living in a remote place will no doubt establish rather a deep relationship with Him.

 

Personally, I find much of the literature dealing with the early church father (or saints) very inspiring and refreshing, whilst I do not feel any need to approach them with prayers or so. But many times their perceptions give good ideas for my own personal journey.

 

But first and above all we should place the God of the Holy Trinity. And the way to know who God is, is through Jesus Christ.


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#8
OakWood

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I believe that contact with dead 'saints' is wrong and is a misinterpretation of scripture by Catholics and Orthodox Christians. For starters, how do you know who is qualifies for the title of saint and who doesn't? Only Jesus does. The 'saints' referred to in the Bible generally means all Christians and none of us are worthy of any divine privileges even after death.

Secondly, communication with the dead is not approved of by God. Many unclean spirits mimic the dead. So if you pray for example to Mary, how do you know that you are speaking to Mary and not to a demon?

Thirdly, only God is omnipotent. Assuming that Mary can hear you, how can she hear everybody at the same time? As we speak, there may be 100 Catholics praying to Mary, but she would only be able to listen to one at a time. Who are the other 99 unwittingly speaking to?

Now Catholics will adamantly claim that they don't worship saints, nor do they pray to them, but they only ask them to intercede on their behalf. This is a misunderstanding of a scripture and what is meant by intercession. I can ask you to pray for me and you can ask me to pray for you, but you shouldn't be asking your dead Grandmother to pray for you, nor should you be asking a dead apostle to do so either.

Besides, we don't need third-party mediators. Jesus is our only true mediator.


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#9
other one

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contacting with dead saints would be at the least one way necromancy....    at least it seems that way to me...


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#10
Willamina

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Oakwood explained it very well. It is a sin to try to contact the dead, even the dead in Christ. So it is a sin to pray to the dead or ask them to pray for you. We consider it an occult practice. There is one mediator between God and man, and that is the man Jesus Christ. He is seated at the right hand of the Father and is praying for us. Ask Jesus to pray for you.

It is wrong to even have a statue of a saint and kneel down before them and pray to them. Exodus 20:4-5. This is the second of the 10 commandments.

It is fine to ask a living godlly person to pray for you. Anyone who seeks to live a godly life in Christ Jesus is a saint, having seperated themselves from the way the world lives and thinks to become more like Jesus. This should include most genuine Christians. St. Paul repeatedly asked for living Christians to pray for him. Nowhere in the new testament do you find men of God praying to person who has died other than Jesus Christ. And He arose from the dead and ever lives to make intercession for us. Hebrews 7:25.
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#11
kwikphilly

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Blessings Amethyst

    Welcome to Worthy.......Jesus suffered & paid the ultimate sacrifice for you not only that You be forgiven & be Saved by the Grace of God through your faith in Him but also that through His flesh we can enter into the Holy of Holies & stand before the Throne of Grace without a high priest,reconciled,worthy,acceptable....to make our requests known to God as our Father,Abba  Jesus took your place so that you could go directly to our Father in His Name to pray,why look for any other way?Would you ask a neighbor to go to your own parent to ask for something?

     Jesus is our Great Mediator ,He makes continual intercession for us & He sits at the right hand of the Father,,,,he lives,He is our Living Redeemer & we serve the One True Living God........that is who hears & answers our prayers

                                                                                                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik


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#12
Rustyangel

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Blessings Amethyst

    Welcome to Worthy.......Jesus suffered & paid the ultimate sacrifice for you not only that You be forgiven & be Saved by the Grace of God through your faith in Him but also that through His flesh we can enter into the Holy of Holies & stand before the Throne of Grace without a high priest,reconciled,worthy,acceptable....to make our requests known to God as our Father,Abba  Jesus took your place so that you could go directly to our Father in His Name to pray,why look for any other way?Would you ask a neighbor to go to your own parent to ask for something?

     Jesus is our Great Mediator ,He makes continual intercession for us & He sits at the right hand of the Father,,,,he lives,He is our Living Redeemer & we serve the One True Living God........that is who hears & answers our prayers

                                                                                                                              With love-in Christ,Kwik

Amen my sweet sister.


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#13
FresnoJoe

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I agree what has been said about worshiping them, but surely they are worth studying. Anyone sacrificing their life to be with God only and living in a remote place will no doubt establish rather a deep relationship with Him.

 

Personally, I find much of the literature dealing with the early church father (or saints) very inspiring and refreshing, whilst I do not feel any need to approach them with prayers or so. But many times their perceptions give good ideas for my own personal journey.

 

But first and above all we should place the God of the Holy Trinity. And the way to know who God is, is through Jesus Christ.

 

:thumbsup:

 

And The Way

 

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, Psalms 40:7

 

To Know Jesus

 

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Hebrews 10:7

 

Is To Abide In Him

 

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. John 15:4-5


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#14
He giveth more grace

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    Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
We don't allow Catholic doctrine or teaching, but we also don't allow Catholic bashing. We love Catholic's and most importantly so does The Lord Jesus Christ.

I have to ask this question, why you want to talk to the Catholic Saints when Jesus is just waiting to hold a conversation with you.

I will give you these real stories from the Bible:

Women who chose to sit at Jesus feet the true person of our love and worship

Luke 7:36-38
36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.

37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

That good part:

Luke 10:38-42
38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

Amethyst, why don't you choose with Mary that good part.
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#15
gray wolf

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I don't think any Catholics worship saints. They ask them to pray for them, similar in the way you would ask another Christian. Although I consider myself a Catholic, I do not practice this as I consider it communicating with the dead.
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#16
OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

I don't think any Catholics worship saints. They ask them to pray for them, similar in the way you would ask another Christian. Although I consider myself a Catholic, I do not practice this as I consider it communicating with the dead.

 Asking someone who is alive is one thing, asking a dead person to intercede for you is a complete different story.  I know many say that they are alive in spirit, so they are not dead.  They cannot converse with us, so they are indeed dead in body.  Nothing in scripture ever indicates that they can hear us if we address them.

 

As mentioned, why bother even trying to ask someone who is dead to pray when Jesus is waiting to hear from you Himself?


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#17
ravindran

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I'm a Christian. I would love to be able to study/worship/pray to Saints though.

 

A few years back I read that Worshipping Saints is Idol Worship. (???)

 

I've also heard that only Catholics are allowed to pray to/worship Saints.

 

On two positive ideas I've heard about Saints though, are that 1. Saints can be looked at as our friends. and 2. The goal of every Catholic is to become a Saint.

 

(I hope it's okay to post things about Catholicism)

I am new to this forum.. I am a Protestant believer.. We don't believe in praying to saints.. Jesus is the only High Priest for us today.. He is the only one who can talk on our behalf.. Satan is the accuser. Christ will speak on behalf for us.. No one else in between..


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#18
gray wolf

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Actually Scripture does describe one instance of communication with a dead person, but it was quite singular. 1 Samuel 28
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#19
OneLight

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    I really enjoy discussing the Bible. There is so much to learn and so much to share.

    I am led to reach my hand out, in love, to those in need.

And that did not turn out well at all, did it!  1 Samuel 28


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#20
Defending the Name

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I'm a Christian. I would love to be able to study/worship/pray to Saints though.

A few years back I read that Worshipping Saints is Idol Worship. (???)

I've also heard that only Catholics are allowed to pray to/worship Saints.

On two positive ideas I've heard about Saints though, are that 1. Saints can be looked at as our friends. and 2. The goal of every Catholic is to become a Saint.

(I hope it's okay to post things about Catholicism)

In Jewish or Semitic culture to ask someone to do something on your behalf is to ask it in their name. Let us say for example a catholic asking a Saint like Mary, they would ask in her name, or if they asked let us say Saint George, then they are asking in his name.

A persons name is his honour and asking someone in their name, you are honouring them. The question then becomes, at which point does honouring a created being become worship?

When you in your heart venerate that name, then it becomes internalised in your being and therefore is an abominable form of worship, because you as a believer are projecting yourself to that person as if your whole life depended on them.

The question is, can that person that you depend on by honouring their name, save you?

I believe that most rational people would say they can not save you.

So what is the big deal about asking someone that does not have the authority to save you, do you go indirectly to the source of life and ask one of his servants, or do you go directly to the source of life and ask him yourself.

What did The Lord say?

John 14:13
And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Again the use of a persons name is to honour that person, but The Lord here is demanding that you ask him directly.

There is no back door or side door in asking The Lord. If you are sincere you need to ask him directly for he has commanded you.

Then Jesus repeats the instruction again:

John 14:14
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Then following this very important instruction he declares the following:

John 14:15
15“If you love me, keep my commands

So it is a commandment to ask him and if you thought it was optional, think again. There is no asking him using another name other than his name. According to this statement if a person asks Saint Mary, then they are disobeying Christ's commands.

If you loved someone so much, do you send someone else to ask them on your behalf or is that person that you want to tell, how much you love, requires that you tell them directly yourself. How embarrassing it would be to send someone else on your behalf, it would look like a half concerted effort and lacking in sincerity.

Jesus said to use his name and if you truly love him you would obey his commands, for it is that simple brothers and sisters.

Luke 11:9-13
9“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
11“Which of you fathers, if your son asks forf a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

You are required to ask him, so that he through his Holy Spirit can led you into all truth and to provide for your needs as his child,

So go to him directly.

Edited by Defending the Name, 15 September 2014 - 05:53 AM.

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