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is it enough just to believe?


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#1
matt123

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As the title says, is it enough just to believe that jesus is the son of god?

E.g. i might be a believer and still do bad things every day will i still go to heaven?

If so, what about murderers who believe, what will happen to them? A lot of criminals believe, they know a lot of what they do is evil but they cant help themselves, but still pray to jesus, whats gonna happen to them?

Surely u would think that a good person who helps people evryday and beileves will go to heaven. But will a person who believes and does nothing else, receieve the same reward as the former??

Colossians ch.1:10 that you might walk worthy of the LORD unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, increasing inknowledge of GOD.Faith and obeying God, also repenting, and producing fruit.God wants to use people to preach his word, produce fruit, to be useful.You have to study the bible and know how to handle Gods word, before God will use someone.Next, Repenting is serious business, its written in epistle john ch. 1, if you try to cover your sins, you wont prosper, means God has written down in the books whatever wasn't repented of.Next, You must believe God is real, faith, and God expects us to produce fruit, that's sharing Gods truth, st john ch.14, Jesus states that any branch that doesn't bear fruit is cut off, its useless.Their are conditions to get in to heaven, your not living 25-30 years, where all you had to do is repent and have faith, live a pure life best you can.acts ch 2 and is ch.65, document, God is calling fourth a people to serve him, that are willing to study hid word, and be useful to HIM, THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF GOD, not play actors.Old testament states capital punishment, for, murder, rape, kidnappers, homosexuals, be put to death under Gods Law.Ezekiel ch 40 to 48, is all about the 1000 year millinium, time of teaching the spirituality dead, if anyone doesn't accept the LORD, doesn't change their wicked ways, will be destroyed, psalms 37 documents the wicked will be destroyed.James ch 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD, AND NOT HEARERS ONLY, DECEIVING YOUR OWN SELFS.People living 30 years had a walk in the park, if they repented, faith, died at that time, your living in the end times where God is calling people forward to serve HIM, be useful to HIM.


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#2

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..... Repenting is serious business.....

 

Amen~!

 

~

 

Welcome~!


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#3
bopeep1909

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Real belief leads to action

Yes :emot-nod:


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#4
Willa

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As the title says, is it enough just to believe that jesus is the son of god?

E.g. i might be a believer and still do bad things every day will i still go to heaven?

If so, what about murderers who believe, what will happen to them? A lot of criminals believe, they know a lot of what they do is evil but they cant help themselves, but still pray to jesus, whats gonna happen to them?

Surely u would think that a good person who helps people evryday and beileves will go to heaven. But will a person who believes and does nothing else, receieve the same reward as the former??


If you truly believe and tust in Christ as your Savior and King of Kings, your God, than you will have been born again and have received a new heart that wants to please God. You are thankful for all Christ has done for you and feel indebted to Him.

But the truth is that all of us do bad things every day. If they are not outright acts we have evil thoughts such as lustful thoughts or bad attitudes, and anger while driving, for instance, or not quite obeying the speed limit.. The more we grow in Christ the more sin is revealed to us and there is more stuff we need to repent of. 1 John 1 says that if we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us. On the other hand, if we keep on sinning and have no desire to quit sinning, we are on dangerous ground. We can always ask for God's help to change. We may eben be sinning but the Holy Spirit has not yet shown us that it is wrong.. That is whay we have to be patient with others, especially new believers. Often it takes a long time to overcome bad habits and learn to obey the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
It is much easier when your are in a small group that can encourage you, give you advice and pray for you. That stuff also can occur here on Worthy. But some people here are like the blind leading the blind so you have to used what is helpful and leave the rest behind. This is especially true if they they are unbelievers (names in red),

I look at others doing a lot for Christ. Before the foundation of the world God created good works for each of us to do. But God has not enabled me to do a lot of stuff that other people do. I do pray for people, but other than that I feel like I do nothing.. My prayers aren't even eloquent. My heart just wants God to help them so I pray. The works that we do that are done for wrong motives and not led by God will not receive a reward. Those that God leads us to do and are motivated by love will probably get a reward.. Most of us will likely be surprised that a lot of stuff that we thought was good will get burned. No reward.. That kind of judgement is in God's hands.
The only good work that the thief on the cross could do was to say that Jesus had done nothing to deserve this death, and to ask Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom. And he called Jesus Lord. He believed in his heart that Jesus was the Christ. He confessed this. Jesus said today you will be with Me in paradice. He may receive a greater reward than I. Just like the widow who gave all she had, a few pennies, maybe.. God judges things differently than we do. He judges our hearts.
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#5
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"Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will go to Heaven"  Matt. 7:21

 

God knows who is written in the Book of Life,.. and those who mention his name repeatedly with no heart for him.


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#6
MarkNigro

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The only thing needed to be saved is to just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Here is what Jesus Himself said.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

John 11:25-26

 

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

The only thing needed to be saved, according to Jesus Christ, is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing else is mentioned. It is not believe and anything else.

If not then these statements are false. But Jesus never lies so these statements are true.


Edited by MarkNigro, 21 July 2013 - 06:34 AM.

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#7
WalkTheWay

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Read the sermon on the mount in Matthew chapters 5 to 7 in which Jesus Christ tells his followers how they must live their lives.  And he concludes his sermon with the following words:

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.


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#8
MarkNigro

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But there is nothing in this part of the sermon on the mount that says that a person who believe in Jesus Christ does not go to heaven. A foolish man's house may fall in this life, but if he believes in Jesus Christ he still goes to heaven.

 

 

The only thing needed to be saved is to just believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Here is what Jesus Himself said.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

 

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? The Holy Bible shows these basic aspects.

 

You must believe in who Jesus is: God.

 

You must believe in what Jesus did: paid for all our sins on the cross by the shedding of His blood then rose from the dead.

 

And you must believe what He said.

 

Here are some passages.

 

Jesus is God

John 8:24, 58

 

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

 

The gospel of salavtion

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

 

 

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

 

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

 

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

 

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

 

Romans 1:16-17

 

 

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

 

Romans 3:22-26

 

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

 

Believe what Jesus said

 

Romans 4:3

 

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

John 3:14-18

 

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

 

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

John 11:25-26

 

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

The only belief that does not count is a false belief. The following verse shows that a works based or merit based belief does not count. You must believe that you are justly under God's damnation for sin and that nothing can save you except simple faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Romans 4:5

 

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


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#9
WalkTheWay

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
    And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
    and to walk humbly with your God.


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#10
WalkTheWay

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Hebrews10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

 

Hebrews 10:29: How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


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#11
His Ambassador

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As the title says, is it enough just to believe that jesus is the son of god?

E.g. i might be a believer and still do bad things every day will i still go to heaven?

If so, what about murderers who believe, what will happen to them? A lot of criminals believe, they know a lot of what they do is evil but they cant help themselves, but still pray to jesus, whats gonna happen to them?

Surely u would think that a good person who helps people evryday and beileves will go to heaven. But will a person who believes and does nothing else, receieve the same reward as the former??

 

You, and many others, misunderstand the word "believe" as used in reference to God.  It means to "cling to" or "follow" and one cannot do that without obeying His teachings and instructions.  It does one no good to just believe things ABOUT God or Jesus.


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#12
MarkNigro

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As the title says, is it enough just to believe that jesus is the son of god?

E.g. i might be a believer and still do bad things every day will i still go to heaven?

If so, what about murderers who believe, what will happen to them? A lot of criminals believe, they know a lot of what they do is evil but they cant help themselves, but still pray to jesus, whats gonna happen to them?

Surely u would think that a good person who helps people evryday and beileves will go to heaven. But will a person who believes and does nothing else, receieve the same reward as the former??

 

You, and many others, misunderstand the word "believe" as used in reference to God.  It means to "cling to" or "follow" and one cannot do that without obeying His teachings and instructions.  It does one no good to just believe things ABOUT God or Jesus.

 

To be saved you must believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty. You must believe that Jesus Christ completely paid for your sins when He shed Hid holy blood on the cross, that He was buried, and then rose from the dead. You must also believe in what He said.

 

Here are some scriptures.

 

Jesus is God

 

John 8:24, 58

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

 

The gospel of salvation

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

Romans 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

Romans 3:19-26

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Believe what Jesus said

 

Romans 4:3

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

The only belief that does not count is a false belief. The following passages show that a works based or merit based belief does not count. You must believe that you are justly under God's damnation for sin and that nothing can save you except simple faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Romans 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

Titus 1:16

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

Romans 10:3-4

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

 

Now it is true that many people who are saved may at times after salvation do evil things. If they are saved they are saved forever. David committed adultery, murder, tried to cover it up with lies, and other things, but David is in heaven.

If a person has committed evil acts before salvation, and they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, then all those sins are forgiven and they go to heaven.

Of course, a person may be doing evil things and say that they believe but may be lying or fooling themselves.

In the end we all need the grace of God to forgive our sins from before we are saved and after we are saved. Jesus Christ paid for all those sins on the cross.

Do not worry about others. God will make sure everything works out. But make sure that you are trusting in what Jesus Christ did for you on the cross (pay for your sins) and nothing else for your salvation.

 

In Christ, in love, in meekness

Mark


Edited by MarkNigro, 21 July 2013 - 06:39 AM.

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#13
MarkNigro

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Hebrews10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

 

Hebrews 10:29: How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Not too sure if you are implying you can lose your salvation. So I will just give my opinion about the passage Hebrews 10:26-31.

 

From the following verses, it is God’s will, that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that it is through his writings, which he got by direct revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ, that the gospel of salvation is to be preached to the Gentiles.

 

Romans 11:13

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

 

Romans 15:16

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

 

2 Timothy 4:17

Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

 

Paul preaches, defends, and declares the gospel of salvation through his writings.

 

Romans 1:15

So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

 

Philippians 1:17

But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

It is the gospel of salvation that Paul preaches through his writings that are the very basis of God’s judgment.

 

Romans 2:16

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

From the next verse it is obvious that all who believe the gospel of Christ are saved. No other requirement in mentioned.

 

Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

In the following verse, we are commanded to rightly dividing the word of truth. Everyone divides the word of truth (the Holy Bible) in some manner. The question is what method is the correct way. For example no one dwells in booths for the feast of tabernacles (see Leviticus 23:42). Most people correctly recognize that the ceremonial laws, the feast days, the Levitical priesthood, the tabernacle care, the dietary restrictions, and the sacrificial parts of the Old Testament law do not apply to us the saved Gentiles since we are under the New Testament. Thus they rightly divide out these commands as not applying to Christians today.

 

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

But right division also eliminates parts of the New Testament. For example nobody does the following.

 

Mark 16:18

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

Not many do the following either.

 

Acts 4:34

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

 

Rightly dividing the word of truth means to accept that Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and that his writings declare, defend and preach the gospel of salvation. We are to consider what Paul writes.

 

2 Timothy 2:7-8

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

 

Paul got the gospel he preaches directly from Jesus Christ (equivalent to words in red).

 

Galatians 1:11-12,15-16

11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

 

NOTE that the apostles agreed that Paul is to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.

 

Galatians 2:7-9

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

 

Jesus Christ chose Paul for this task.

 

Acts 9:15

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

 

Now Paul probably is the author of the letter to the Hebrews. But Paul did not begin the letter with his name. This is important because all of his letters from Romans to Philemon begin “Paul…” This is clearly stated by Paul.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:17

The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

 

Now because Paul did not include this salutation in the letter to the Hebrews, it is not doctrine for the saved during this time. The letter obviously was written to Jews before 70 AD and probably applies to them in the tribulation. So the gospel of salvation is given by the other 13 letters written by Paul, which have the salutation of Paul.

            Although Hebrews has much about the gospel, it also addresses other issues for Jews, probably in the tribulation, one of which is survival. The passage that you quoted from Hebrews never mentions damnation as punishment. The punishment mentioned in the passage is punishment in this life including death.

            Since damnation is not mentioned and the salutation of Paul is not on the letter it cannot be used for doctrine about the gospel of salvation.

 

The gospel of John is identified as the gospel to the world.

 

John 1:11-12

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

Jesus Christ said this simple statement. Do you believe it?

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

The following is the testimony of Jesus Christ (see John 3:11 and John3:32-33).  From verse 15 it is absolutely sure that “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” From verse 16 it is absolutely sure that “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Verse 18 shows that belief in Jesus Christ is the only thing that determines salvation or damnation. Do you believe what Jesus said?

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Jesus Christ said this simple statement. Do you believe it?

 

John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark


Edited by MarkNigro, 21 July 2013 - 06:44 AM.

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#14
Elhanan

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If belief for salvation was the only requirement then Heb 5:9 would read: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who believe in him."  But that's not what the verse says - it reads: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him."  Belief unaccompanied by obedience is worthless.


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#15
WalkTheWay

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Hebrews10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

 

Hebrews 10:30b "The Lord will judge his people." 1 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


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If belief for salvation was the only requirement then Heb 5:9 would read: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who believe in him."  But that's not what the verse says - it reads: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him."  Belief unaccompanied by obedience is worthless.

 

I say belief is enough, with the understanding that real belief, the kind the bible talks about, is always accompanied by work.

 

You act on what you beleive. Your actions betray what you really think.


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#17
MarkNigro

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If belief for salvation was the only requirement then Heb 5:9 would read: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who believe in him."  But that's not what the verse says - it reads: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him."  Belief unaccompanied by obedience is worthless.

 

Paul defines obey the gospel as believe the gospel. 

 

Romans 10:16-17

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

Romans is the preaching of the gospel of salvation by Paul the apostle of the Gentiles (see Romans 11:13).

 

Romans 1:15-17

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

 

Romans 15:16

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

 

2 Timothy 4:17

Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

 

Paul declares the gospel in the following passage. The gospel is a message to be believed.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

The only commandment from God that needs to be obeyed is to be saved is to believe the gospel. 

 

Here are some more undeniable passages which prove beyond any doubt that salavtion is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

Romans 3:19-26

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Romans 4:3

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

Here is what God Almighty, who would never lied, said. Since only believe is mentioned and nothing else, then to be true it must be through faith alone. And to have everlasting life means once saved always saved.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

Acts 16:31b

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved

 

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark


Edited by MarkNigro, 21 July 2013 - 06:32 AM.

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#18
MarkNigro

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Hebrews10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

 

Hebrews 10:29: How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

One last thing about this passage, the actual lead in to this passage in found in Hebrews 10:25. Here is Hebrews 10:25-31 from the King James Bible.

 

Hebrews 10:25-31

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

Notice the “sin willfully” of verse 26 is the “forsaking the assembling of ourselves together” of verse 25. It is not general sin but specifically forsaking assembling. It is always important to read a passage in full context.

 

Again, the passage was written to Jews before 70 AD probably by Paul (that is what I believe). It probably is for Jews in the Tribulation. The passage is not about damnation, but punishment in this life including physical death.

 

Furthermore, since Paul did not start off the Letter to Hebrews with the salutation of Paul, it is not doctrine for Gentiles in this age of grace. The gospel of salvation is given by Paul in the 13 letters, Romans to Philemon.

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark


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#19
Elhanan

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I

 

 

 

If belief for salvation was the only requirement then Heb 5:9 would read: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who believe in him."  But that's not what the verse says - it reads: "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him."  Belief unaccompanied by obedience is worthless.

 

Paul defines obey the gospel as believe the gospel. 

 

Romans 10:16-17

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

Romans is the preaching of the gospel of salvation by Paul the apostle of the Gentiles (see Romans 11:13).

 

Romans 1:15-17

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

 

Romans 15:16

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

 

2 Timothy 4:17

Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

 

Paul declares the gospel in the following passage. The gospel is a message to be believed.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

 

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

The only commandment from God that needs to be obeyed is to be saved is to believe the gospel. 

 

Here are some more undeniable passages which prove beyond any doubt that salavtion is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

Romans 3:19-26

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Romans 4:3

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

 

Here is what God Almighty, who would never lied, said. Since only believe is mentioned and nothing else, then to be true it must be through faith alone. And to have everlasting life means once saved always saved.

 

John 6:47

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

John 3:14-18

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

John 11:25-26

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

Acts 16:31b

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved

 

 

In love, in Christ, in meekness,

Mark

 

I suppose belief would be enough if one were on one's death bed and could do nothing else.  The verses you cite all point to "belief" as a constituent part of faith. However even the demons believe (Jas 2:19) and what good does that do them? James states: "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?  Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?  In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." (Jas 2:14-17).  The notion that faith alone saves is directly contradicted by James 2:24: "You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."  You claim that belief alone saves ignores many other scriptures that further define what constitutes being saved.  Along with believing, one must repent.

 

Acts 17:30

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

 

Acts 20:21

I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

 

Acts 26:20

First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.  The idea that one can repent but not show any changes in one's life is contrary to the gospel message.
 
I ask you - if cognitive assent or belief was the only requirement for salvation, why does Heb 5:9 declare?:  "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him."  We demonstrate our belief in Christ as we humble ourselves and obey him.

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#20

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I ask you - if cognitive assent or belief was the only requirement for salvation, why does Heb 5:9 declare?:  "and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who OBEY him."  We demonstrate our belief in Christ as we humble ourselves and obey him.

 

Yeap

 

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

 

Obey

 

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:12

 

Him

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

Humbly

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Romans 3:27


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