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    • Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Alan, it appears you have joined the bandwagon of so many pre-tribbers who corrupt the Word of God. When you can't find a text that teaches a pre-trib rapture you wrest one to that purpose. No amount of torturing of the word apostasia will yield a physical departure. Like the secret rapture in the 19th century, this twisting of the text (apostasia= rapture) is new and therefore untrue. There is not a single instance in all of Koine Greek literature where apostasia is used in a sense other than a religious or political departure. Every historic teaching on the passage takes it as a religious departure. Paul is just repeating what Jesus taught when he said that many would be offended when violent persecution comes upon them for Christ's name sake and that many would be deceived by the false prophets and lying signs and wonders. Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
      Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
      Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Just like Jesus, Paul taught that there would be a falling away (a departure from the faith) associated with the unprecedented persecution of the Beast that would precede the arrival and continuing presence (coming = parousia) of Christ on the day of the Lord. Alan, your problem is that you have elevated a system of understanding above the Holy Scriptures themselves. Concerning Matt 24 taking place in 75 AD, what are you smoking? Neither Matthew nor Mark records the portion of the Olivet Discourse which addresses the first question: "when shall these things be", that is, when shall the Temple be destroyed, not one stone being left upon another. Matthew 24 is all about the signs of the parousia of Christ (Matt 24:3). The first unique sign will be the abomination of desolation. The defiling of the temple by the Beast (AoD) will begin the unprecedented persecution (great tribulation). The unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel will be shortened to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). The persecution will be over when the sun, moon, and stars go dark (Matt 24:29) and Christ in all His glory appears in the clouds with the mighty angels for all the world to see. He will then resurrect the dead in Christ, change those who are alive and remain, and catch us up together to be with Him in the clouds. All of that is found in Matt 24. All future. I thought they were only legalizing that stuff here in the States. Concerning your assertion that the church is not found in Revelation after chapter 3. To be consistent you must believe that God has annihilated the church because there is no mention of the word church in heaven either. A little wisdom can show how foolish some arguments are. Arguments from silence are tenuous at best. None are so blind as those who will not see. Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Praise Jesus
    • I have given you the Biblical truth for those questions, Do wake up and Pay attention. Jesus DIDN'T ask you those questions, Because He was always there. See Rev 4, and Rev 5: 6. You are obviously a false religious man.
    • You bring up a good point. Abiding in Christ is the only way we can really do anything.  However, I wouldn't want you to think that I just am mean to myself for no good reason. I just no longer want to allow negative or apathetic people to dissuade me from following hard after Christ for any reason. They mean well. They imply that, "you don't have to do all that." But it's not that I feel like I have to. I just want to. 
    • Amen, thanks Marilyn.   I agree....the throne of God is allegorical for His authority and rule......and that He has created and delegated authorities as well, under His.  There are those delegated authorities that have rebelled against Him......but His plan is to restore His rule.  (He has already done so in heaven, but it still remains to be manifested on earth in it's fullness, as I understand it.) Look forward to hearing more about these things, and see if it will help to guide us in how we are to understand the main topic of this thread.
    • The clearest human based lack of reasoning behind the Post-trib  thought is the neglect ,  inability to deal with God's message for the building up of the nation Israel . They only way they can deal with themselves being on the scene   is by clumsily interjecting themselves into being God's needed  emissaries for restoration of Israel to God .  "God needs us to accomplish this " being the thought . Completely ignoring the fact that God's Word tells us  the Jews are the only people in human history God has dealt with Face to Face . All by His lonesome . It is as if they believe God tried doing it Himself Face to face ,  but it did not work out so now we will help God with this Jewish issue .
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